Manchin: I'll block Biden's next big package if Republicans aren't included (no more reconciliation)

[Celerity]

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), America's ultimate swing voter, told me on "Axios on HBO" that he'll insist Republicans have more of a voice on President Biden's next big package than they did on the COVID stimulus.

Manchin's next power play

https://www.axios.com/joe-manchin-infrastructure-bill-c8408e99-17f3-4477-b5df-8e3d537c0bd9.html

The big picture: Manchin said he'll push for tax hikes to pay for Biden's upcoming infrastructure and climate proposal, and will use his Energy Committee chairmanship to force the GOP to confront climate reality.

Why it matters: My conversation yielded the most extensive preview yet of how Manchin — a Democrat from a Trump state, in a 50-50 Senate, who relishes standing up to a Democratic White House — will use his singular power. Manchin, 73, said Biden expects, and understands, the pushback: "He's the first president we've had to really, really understand the workings of the Senate since LBJ."

Manchin said that with just a few concessions, it would have been possible to get some Republicans on the COVID relief package that passed the Senate this weekend on a party-line vote. And he said he'll block Biden's next big package — $2 trillion to $4 trillion for climate and infrastructure — if Republicans aren't included.

"I'm not going to do it through reconciliation," which requires only a simple majority, like the COVID stimulus, Manchin said. "I am not going to get on a bill that cuts them out completely before we start trying."

snip

[Walleye]

1. The Republicans are not going to vote for any of our bills no matter what

Get that through your head, Manchin. We could’ve outlawed abortions and giving away free guns in that bill and they still wouldn’t vote for it. Is he lying or is he just that dumb?

[Keth]

14. Yep.

He understands and if he doesn't than he shouldn't be a U.S. Senator. imho, he's just enjoying that little bit of power because he know's he is needed.

I thought we might get at least one Republican to offset Manchin - what the hell was I thinking?

[Walleye]

16. The cold fact is no Republicans are going to vote for any of our bills. Mitch delighted in killing

Everything we managed to pass. When someone tells you who they are believe them the first time, Mr. Manchin

[mucifer]

2. Give President Joe and Chuck some time to work this out.

[uponit7771]

3. He's already reneging!!! it was supposed to be include Republicans for 30 days

[dflprincess]

4. Republicans chose to exclude themselves. Nt

[BeyondGeography]

5. Let's sign up for more Lucy with the football...yay!

That’ll move the country forward. Brilliant.

[Freethinker65]

6. Manchin is a PITA, but he merely said "try" to get GOP support

This is a National infrastructure Bill. Republicans should want to bring infrastructure money to their States. Include (don't exclude) the GOP in discussions and "try" to find agreements. Seems reasonable.

Of course the GOP can just refuse to give Biden a "win" like in the COVID relief Bill, but Manchin, if honest about it, can vote yes knowing at least they "tried".

**and, yes, I know Democrats almost always try to work with the other side and that Manchin is using GOP taking points to grandstand and look like the great moderator. Manchin is an ass and this is self-preservation in WV for himself.

[Celerity]

11. with no reconciliation we need TEN Rethugs to vote for cloture

Murkowski
Collins
Toomey
Burr
Sasse
Cassidy(?)
Deb Fischer (?)

NONE of those are locks AT ALL, and they ALL voted against the COVID bill

and

all the rest are crazed RWer MAGAts except for Romney, and Romney is never going to vote for a 4 trillion usd bill

[Freethinker65]

15. Exactly. So at Manchin's word...

If GOP is included in discussions of crafting the Bill, the Democrats will have "tried" and Manchin will have clear conscience to vote to pass the Bill.

Same thing he has said about the filibuster.

Still Manchin is an ass, but he left himself a big hole to get things passed if the GOP continues to obstruct everything even when included and consulted.

[mvd]

18. Toomey voted for impeachment, but fiscally he is very conservative

He won’t vote for a large bill.

I say we try with Repukes for a day and then say, “look, Manchin, we tried. Now don’t you want those infrastructure funds for WV?”

[PA Democrat]

20. Toomey is fiscally conservative UNLESS the bill is for obscene tax cuts for billionaires and

corporations.

[Celerity]

22. Yes, I was just tossing out every possible name, and then said most (all)

are so not likely.

Toomey sure wasn't a fiscal conservative about trillions in tax cuts for the ultra rich, that fucker.

[mvd]

37. Yep, typical Repuke hypocrisy

I am hoping we can get Fetterman in that seat in 2022. Toomey won’t be running again.

[everyonematters]

7. If you listen to what he says, what that means, is they have committee hearings and exchange ideas.

The Republicans don't have to have actual input in the legislation. He could eventually approve of bypassing the filibuster.

[underpants]

8. Re-election in 2022. Won in 2016 by 19,000 with 49.6%

The Libertarian candidate got 24,000 votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_Senate_election_in_West_Virginia

[AZSkiffyGeek]

9. 2024

He won in 2018

[underpants]

33. Oops. Right you are.

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. Taken at his word, his fall back possible compromise positions are obvious

What he clearly is resisting is being the 50th vote that allows VP Harris to be the tie breaker in a 100% partisan vote, like what happened with Covid relief. Current filibuster rules mean that the alternative to reconciliation requires 60 Senators in favor (hence 10 Republican ayes) One option would be to make rule changes to the filibuster that make it harder for Republicans to obstruct through its usage. Several such changes have been floated and Manchin has left himself open to possibly backing such an effort. The other "compromise" would be for Manchin to allow use of the reconciliation process AFTER extensive good faith (but ultimately unsuccessful) efforts are made to pass bi-partisan legislation, assuming that at least one Republican Senator then votes with the Democratic majority through the reconciliation process, making that vote technically bi-partisan.

I will note that with infrastructure funding (as opposed to other measures like voting rights) Congressional tradition has been to craft bi-partisan legislation, as infrastructure spending has traditionally been among the least partisan activities that Congress engages in.

[Ferrets are Cool]

12. I rue the fact that we cannot criticize him.

Because I have a LOT of choice words that I would like to toss his way.

[TheBlackAdder]

13. He's taken over the Susan Collins position and his flexing his power and seeking attention.

[Celerity]

28. It's only natural, he endorsed Collins in 2020 and she used him him a lot to boost her fake ass

bi-partisan con game for Maine voters.

[Walleye]

17. Every Democratic bill will be labeled:leftist liberal wish-list

The Republicans in the Senate are not interested in governing at all and that’s a fact

[Hotler]

19. The orange one gave us chunky shit sandwiches, Manchin is giving us creamy.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Lancero]

23. They're still warm too, Manchin's certainly going all out on one upping ol' Donnie Dump.

[Johonny]

21. I think Biden should tell Joe, okay go get some GOP support

If Joe finds one GOPer willing to do any of it, and I mean one of them good for him. But he won't.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

24. What part of

Republicans just tried to murder the Vice President and the Speaker of the House, overthrow the government, install a dictator, and end democracy in the United States forever,

did Senator Manchin not understand?

[Celerity]

26. +1

and end democracy in the United States forever,

that is still in full play

[dalton99a]

25. Yeah, let's cater to the assholes that want to literally kill us

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. "he'll push for tax hikes" and he wants Republicans included. What a non-starter.

Because you know the first demand from any Republican (not just the Trump acolytes) would be "no tax hikes".

What a waste of time interviewing him is.

[AnnaLee]

29. West Virginia Infrastructure must be hunky dory. ntp

[nykym]

30. If he stands in the way no federal funds

for infrastructure in WV.
It can work both ways.

[fescuerescue]

39. He could stand in the way of that too

[budkin]

31. He's even worse than I thought he was

We have to gain more Senate seats so we can jettison him.

[comradebillyboy]

32. Biden should ask Manchin to spearhead the effort to

get Republicans on board. If he succeeds great, if not he might back off the bipartisan nonsense.

[PatSeg]

34. Great idea!

Manchin knows republicans aren't going to go along with Democrats regardless of any bipartisan outreach. We've all seen this movie before and it always ends the same way. Maybe his constituents are buying his BS, but most people know better.

[bdamomma]

35. that sounds like a

good manipulation, does Manchin even know if Repigs are willing to work beside President Biden's agenda? I say no.

Or maybe Manchin needs a incentive for his state to be included. He is looking at what $$$$$$ he can benefit from. Just a thought.

[BGBD]

36. For fuck sake

You guys need to stop hanging on Manchin every word. He runs on being bipartisan and wins that way. He's not going to vote against an infrastructure bill when shit tons of that money is going to end up I'm WV. This guy learned about pork from the king of it.

He's, at once, making himself look like he's not a rubber stamp and setting the republicans up to look like the bad guys when they won't play ball.

What has he done? Spoke against an piece of a bill that wasn't going to be allowed in the final bill anyway and killed a nominee that didn't have the votes, with ir without him, to start with.

Wow, such devastating acts.

[Celerity]

40. Banging on him? It is his own words. He is the one banging on us. And he blocked over over 2000 usd

in unemployment benefits per person (he forced 25 weeks at 300 usd per week, 7500 usd in toto versus the House version he blocked 24 weeks at 400 us pw (9600 usd) PLUS he blocked 17 million people from getting a COVID check, after they got two under Trump.

He is doing damage, all for a very iffy/iffy election in almost 4 years, one that is so not a lock, whilst hurting us for the 2022 elections. Plus, how is his blocking many of his own voters from aid going to them supposed to help him win anyway? Justice has outflanked him to the left AND the right. Manchin's minimum wage level means $8320 per year LESS (15 usd minus 11 usd at F/T) for every WV minimum wage worker. Great campaign move.

Now he is committing to blocking Biden's massive infrastructure bill via saying in no uncertain terms 'no reconciliation' That means it is all now subject to the filibuster. He is never going to get 10 Rethugs to sign onto voting for cloture.

This isn't just one part or two or 3 parts of the bill he is railing against (and can be taken out). This is the whole thing, the very process that is the only way it can be passed. He is not the type to walk such bold threats back. He is setting it up as a big man play. He caves and he starts to look like he is not the big man he loves to paint himself as.

[BGBD]

43. Bullshit

Those UE benefits can't go on forever or be as high as they were to start. They have already gone on longer and paid more than ever.

And no, he hasn't committed to blocking anything. Stop putting words in his mouth. He's committed to give Republicans opportunity to have a say, not to kill anything Republicans don't like.

[kacekwl]

38. Good god this guy is stupid if

he thinks any republicans would have voted with Biden. "Just a few concessions would have got bipartisan support " What a dope.

[mvd]

42. A "few" concessions that would have ruined the whole bill

Yep, not a bright statement from Manchin.

[Deminpenn]

41. The most amazing thing is that Manchin said is he wants to raise taxes

to pay for infrastructure!

Imo, it's naive to think any Rs would've voted for the covid-19 bill when McConnell was whipping against it, no matter how many "little" concessions Dems made. I'm sure Manchin knows that.

I bet part of the infrastructure bill will include "Reimagine Applachia". Something WVa desperately needs.

Reimagine Appalachia, a coalition of organizations from Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia and Kentucky, on Tuesday released a New Deal-style policy framework to expand economic opportunity while reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the Ohio River Valley.

That initiative could bring someone like Portman and Moore-Capito on board.

[irisblue]

45. For those 2 GOP Senators to push for the high speed secure internet

like the rural electrification act of 1936 would be amazing and 1000% good for their constituents.
Maybe if those 3 got .01% of the grift & graft $, they could find away to work with Dems

[Celerity]

46. He can bring in multiple Rethugs on the infrastructure bill, but we need 10

to cross over if it is not done under reconciliation, which is exactly what Manchin said he would block. 4 trillion usd price tag means that is extraordinarily unlucky. Bell, I would be very surpised if we can get 10 to come over for 3 trillion, 2.5 trillion.

[Lucinda]

47. If they choose not to participate that is their problem not Joes. n/t