Asian Massage Parlors Too Often Equal Human Trafficking

[Johnny2X2X]

Last edited Thu Mar 18, 2021, 11:39 AM - Edit history (3)

Every time you drive past one of these places in your city, know that you are most likely driving past a place where women are being held against their will and forced into sexual slavery. How we tolerate the horror that goes on in these places in hundreds of cities across out country is a great shame. This is organized crime trafficking women who are beaten, raped, and held captive. It must be stopped.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/us/massage-parlors-human-trafficking.html

It just sickens me when people talk about stopping human trafficking, but so little seems to be done about the massive human trafficking organizations going on right out in the open most places in this country. It's right here, here's where the human trafficking occurs, they have literal neon signs, go stop it!

Prostitution is not the right word, that implies that their lives were somehow less valuable, even though it shouldn't imply that. These women were very likely victims of human trafficking before they were murdered. Their deaths are no less tragic because of where they were forced to work. More tragic really.

[spooky3]

1. I think we should delay labeling these particular businesses.

Why do we assume they are not legitimate businesses? The mayor said no prior police calls had been made, except regarding a minor reported theft. And one of the victims had gone there with her husband (and child?) for a spa day, unlikely seeking sex services.

[luckone]

7. +1

[eShirl]

9. Were they all licensed massage therapists?

When I was a massage therapist, you would not believe (or maybe you would) how many people thought that meant I was a prostitute.

[ShazzieB]

64. I'd believe it.

I've known some massage therapists. They've all said the same thing!

[amuse bouche]

91. Here in Tampa, many of these establishments, have one licensed therapist

Everyone else works under that license

I have several clients who used to visit them. That's all I'm saying

[Habibi]

100. Same. Some of the suburbs would charge $10,000 to practice there,

no doubt to discourage "prostitution." Naturally, I declined to practice in them.

[Hortensis]

18. Agree entirely. Blanket defamation is the definition of bigotry.

No matter how earnest, if it's wrong it's extremely wrong.

[NotHardly]

53. I'd like to know why this racist piece of crap post/comment/article is still on this site.

Are there not monitors here?

[Hortensis]

60. :) Human fallibility? Everyone knows bigotry against AA is bad

and righteously proud to be on the right side of that; after that a lot of us get a lot less clear on the concept.

But the OP was rewritten in less absolute terms after getting some feedback.

[h2ebits]

67. Thank you. I also think the monitors should remove this racist piece of crap

[uponit7771]

68. right ?!

[sarisataka]

75. If you go to the OP and look at the bottom

You will see a button to Alert Abuse. One of the options it gives you is No bigotry/insensitivity, clicking that allows you to alert the post and send it to a jury who votes to hide or leave it.

It is not something I use anymore but you are welcome to take your chances. Just don't get your hopes up.

[FlyingPiggy]

78. 1000+

[Grins]

79. He's referencing an article in THE NEW YORK TIMES!

Absolutely legitimate.

[uponit7771]

98. NYT article and OP title don't match, not legitimate

Last edited Thu Mar 18, 2021, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[CrackityJones75]

88. Me too.

It is completely racist.

[h2ebits]

65. You are entirely correct.

I am amazed at the soft pedaling that is taking place regarding this post. Each of us needs to decide whether we are part of the problem or part of the solution.

[mainer]

19. the owner was a licensed massage therapist

She was one of the victims.

https://www.businessinsider.in/policy/news/these-are-some-of-the-victims-of-the-atlanta-area-spa-shootings-including-a-49-year-old-massage-therapist-and-a-young-mother-on-a-date-night/articleshow/81564079.cms

[eShirl]

40. +1

[radical noodle]

49. Exactly...

We have a couple of them near us and they are legitimately massage parlors, not sex shops.

[spooky3]

63. Ditto here. And recently a neighbor asked on the listserv if anyone

Could recommend a good massage therapist. I was surprised at how many neighbors gave recommendations. I had no idea how many people regularly visit them.

[Grins]

80. They visit because they ARE Legit.

Married couple I know go 1-2 times a month.

[MuseRider]

2. Although I knew there

has been a huge rise of violence against Asians I wondered if this really was just that, especially after what he had said were his reasons. It made a creepy sense, knowing about the trafficking, that it would be Asian women mostly. I am guessing it is a likely mixture of anger against women, Asians, guilt by being the kid of a minister with a huge dose of incel reasoning.

I guess we will find out eventually.

[hlthe2b]

3. Broad brush, though I have no doubt this is occurring and should be investigated.

That said, a former health inspector friend of mine inspects these locales for a major suburban city outside of Denver. Staff come and go, but talk freely, even when inspectors show up unannounced and I'm told that there have not been issues, even when undercover police have checked in with them.

In NYC and perhaps even in other areas, maybe even in Denver? I have little doubt the same can not be said.

[Celerity]

4. Something tells me this type of trafficking doesn't bother the QMAGAts at all

1000 quid says many male QMAGs have stopped into one of those torture dens for a quick 'happy ending' tug job.

[uponit7771]

5. Every ***SINGLE*** one of them? Thx in advance

[BannonsLiver]

6. Careful

Someone gently broached the subject in another thread and was attacked. Apparently we’re all supposed to pretend massage parlors and human trafficking have nothing to do with each other.

I don’t know what that sick MF’s motivation was. But raising this issue alongside what happened does not mean one “doesn’t care” about the victims. Quite the opposite, actually.

[MineralMan]

8. Every time? All of them?

I doubt you know that, actually.

No doubt some of them are as you describe, but I don't know that ALL of them are. And I'm positive that you do not know that, either.

Here's the thing: If "Asian Massage Parlors" are essentially "Asian Sex Parlors," who are their patrons? Who is going into them and paying for whatever services they offer? Do you know the answer to that question.

And further, does offering sexual services act as an excuse for murder? Because that is the actual question right now.

Can you answer that question, please? Because the murders of eight people and human trafficking are two separate issues. Don't you agree?

[Johnny2X2X]

11. They are separate issues

Who said they were the same issue? But they are comingled in that the women who were murdered were very likely working at these places against their will.

And every one? I'm sure there are some across the US that are legit, but that's not the norm.

And their patrons need to be held accountable, they are supporting and funding slavery and they are committing sex acts with women who are forced. What kind of sick person wants to give money to organizations who enslave girls like this? What kind of sicko wants sex from a women who is forced?

Their deaths are no more or less tragic. But this is an opportunity for people to become more aware of the massive amounts of human trafficking for sex going on right out in the open in this country. Who's fighting for these girls?

[MineralMan]

23. I just find it interesting that people are suddenly interested

in this phenomenon of "Asian Massage" businesses. I don't know where you live, but such businesses are pretty common here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, and have been for years. I assume that every law enforcement agency is aware of them, since they have signs on their front doors and advertise in local media.

So, if they are hotbeds of sex trafficking, how come they haven't been investigated? Why is there interest in them only after some sorry-assed incel who is feeling guilty about his need for sex shoots up three such places in Georgia?

They are separate issues, until they are not. And right now, they are not.

Who patronizes such businesses? Who are the men who go in and come out of their doors? Are some of them LEOs in need of sexual release? Other "fine upstanding citizens?" I suspect so. So, no investigation takes place. Now that some young asshole with a gun has shot up some of them, suddenly we're interested in what goes on in them? Don't you find that interesting?

We have some asshole Sheriff's Captain in Georgia talking about "sex addiction" and the murderer "having a bad day." The same asshole was touting t-shirts that called the Covid-19 virus the "Chy-Na" virus. The same asshole is more or less excusing the murderer because he was having a bad day and has a sex addiction. What that LEO is doing is blaming the victims and doing it in front of media cameras.

That Sheriff's Captain doesn't care if those businesses are providing "happy endings" to their customers. He doesn't care how the women who work in them got to the USA and what their work conditions are like. For all I know, he goes into those places himself to partake of their "services."

It's just interesting that people are suddenly interested in those businesses, it seems to me. They weren't interested before a murderer killed eight people in a shooting spree.

[Treefrog]

27. Good post and you said that very well.

[Johnny2X2X]

30. In my city, they get raided every now and then

And it is an issue that deserves a ton more exposure. I was disgusted when the Robert Kraft massage parlor story broke and the media didn't seem to properly depict what these places Kraft was visiting really were, the plight of the victims inside them was skimmed over in all but a few of the stories.

Men who frequent them for sex are giving money to the worst people, people who are literally running large brutal sex trafficking rings. Paying for these services absolutely allows them to operate.

I find it troubling that calling out these places for what they are makes people think that it is an effort to diminish the deaths of these innocent women when the opposite is true. These women were likely victims of a form of kidnapping and forced to work against their will in sexual servitude and were killed while being victims. It's troubling we let this go on and it's largely to do with race that society tolerates this.

[thucythucy]

42. The problem I have is that you are making highly inflammatory allegations against specific people

when, at the moment at least, there is no evidence that these specific victims fit your characterization. Just to repeat, one of the murdered victims was the owner of one of the establishments. You are essentially accusing her of a terrible crime, with, as far as I can tell, no evidence or foundation in fact beyond your own generalizations.

You admit this yourself when you use phrases such as "were likely."

And to post such an accusation against people who have only yesterday been the victims of a brutal crime seems downright callous.

Furthermore: to make an assertion like "Asian massage parlors equal sex trafficking" is just plain wrong, as has been pointed out here a number of times. Unless you can demonstrate that every single Asian massage parlor--without exception--is a cover for sex trafficking you have no justification for using such extreme language, especially in the current context of hate crimes against Asian women. A post like this can be downright dangerous, as it plays into the Incel mythology of Asian women being "bad women" which is then used as justification for hate and murder.

If you're serious about the issue of sex trafficking, you'll make more progress not using hyperbole and most especially not posting this kind of broad-brush accusation against Asian owned or managed businesses.

To repeat what others have already said: not every Asian massage parlor is a cover for prostitution, and not every massage therapist is a prostitute or sex slave. Youi might want to edit your OP to demonstrate that you understand this fact.

[uponit7771]

102. +1, the OP doesn't match the NYT article that was posted to. Looks like rodent sex

[ismnotwasm]

37. +1000

[uponit7771]

101. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[Sympthsical]

21. Yeah, this isn't sitting right with me

Being a white guy surrounded by Asians, I know that massages are kind of a cultural thing. So I don't want that to be a default connection. Asian massage = prostitute. No, no, no.

Massages are a cultural thing.

However, there are enough incidents that you should be aware. At least keep an eye out. Because sex work and trafficking is a thing there. Just be the good person and make sure no one is being forced to sexually service you in any way. People can do that. We can do that.

[MineralMan]

29. I'm not even a potential customer for those businesses.

I see them as I drive by. I don't need a massage. It's not part of my life. I don't need a "happy ending," either.

What bothers me is that we are just "noticing" such businesses because some young, white incel shot up three such businesses and killed eight people. The police in that area have "no reports" on those businesses. They just ignore them. Until now. Now, they're trying to blame them for what a guy did with a gun.

That bothers me. A lot.

Personally, I am for getting rid of laws against sex work. That would go a long way toward ending sex trafficking, I believe. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

I'm very much in favor of investigating possible sex and human trafficking. But, apparently, that's not something the law enforcement community is interested in there in Georgia, or pretty much anywhere else. Such "massage" places are a commonplace in almost any city of any size. I don't hear about arrests being made of the owners of such businesses.

We have a multiple murder suspect. I'd like us to focus on him and what lies behind his actions. I'd like to see a speedy prosecution of the asshole who did that, and who has admitted that he did it. I'd like to see an appropriate punishment for him.

Let's do that first. Then, investigations of that type of business can go forward. Perhaps such investigations should have been started long ago. But, they were not. Only now that some white 20-something man shot up three such places are we interested.

I find that very troubling.

[Sympthsical]

59. You and I are in 100% agreement

I live with Asians. My partner and I bought a house, then his parents moved into the bottom floor, and then his sister needed a room, then during Covid, we took in some nephews. But, being in SF, I have Asian ex bf's, too.

So, I'm pretty soaked in Asian American culture in general.

Asian American issues are invisible. No one cares. There are no protests or marches. The idea is that Asian do great in America. They're doctors and tech people. They succeed. They have so much money! That's the stereotype. But that's not true. There are poor Asians, alienated, alone, barely hanging on. We, as people of the Left, don't see or pay attention so much to their struggles. We see the successful stereotype and figure they don't need voices, don't need help, don't need us to speak up.

And here we are.

This discriminating has been going on for a long, long time. I live in the S.F. area. I see it all the time. But people who are against racism as their reason for being? They never see the Asians. BiPOC is a thing. Black and Indigenous People of Color. You know what that acronym says? No Asians.

My partner is Asian. His family who lives with us is Asian. My family is Asian. They've been ignored for so long. I'm very, very heartened that people are now starting to notice the discrimination they faced. But it shouldn't have taken Trump mouthing off to do it. They faced all this before Trump. He just highlighted it.

Asian lives matter. Let's get on that one. That's my family.

[MineralMan]

61. The block I live on in St. Paul

is about 75% occupied by Asian families. Mostly Hmong, but there are Vietnamese and Thai homeowners, as well.

All good neighbors. All hard-working, family-oriented people. We all help each other out when help is needed.

[Sympthsical]

73. Minnesota has a huge Hmong population

One of my best friends, Nush (short for Nushen) grew up in Minnesota.

I live in Fairfield. But Fairfield is huge. There's Travis Air Force base like seven miles over. It's all in town limits. But I live in a suburban part of it. Big houses, big trees, all green. I love it. And it's easily 50% Asian. It's white people and Asians. I didn't design that. I just liked the house. But that's my neighborhood. Of the five houses immediately around me, three are Asian families. And then there's my house. It's me, a white guy, and ten billion Filipinos.

They succeeded. My partner's parents immigrated. They were dirt poor. But they put their four children through college. They worked and slaved to put those kids through school. My partner has a pharmacy degree. He's now a regional manager for a major health care conglomerate.

They have this crazy work ethic.

I'm a middle manager. Human Resources. And I feel like his parents judge me. I make a great living, I'm a manager, it's fine. But it feels like they're saying, "Is that all you do?" It's like, "Hey! You live in my house!" But it's kind of hilarious. I'm amused. They're always pushing in that way. "You're a manager? You make six figures? Meh. You can do better!"

Thanks, Filipino mom and dad.

But they get discriminated against all the time. And it bothers me. So I'm glad people are noticing. It just shouldn't have taken Trump and this to put it on our radar.

[joetheman]

66. You beat me to it. A life is a life and probably an important life to a child or parent.

What is wrong with us? A teenage white boy can walk freely away from having shot and killed to peaceful protestors and even be released from prison and violate the terms of his release. And somehow he is treated as another young man who had a "bad day." This is sickening behavior by society. Human trafficking (and there has been no proof of this so far in this case) is bad but so is human killing.

[MineralMan]

70. And why is it always white men who have excuses made for them?

I think I know, and it's called misogynistic racism.

We can do much, much better.

[genxlib]

10. No doubt that it is a serious problem that should be tackled

Although I am reluctant to assume all of the places are like that. Especially these particular ones sense they have enough to deal with right now without fending off accusations. Let the investigation move forward and I think it should become obvious whether the victims were trafficked or whether they were sex workers at all.

But overall, I have a different take. Let's legalize and regulate prostitution. Much like the drug trade, the primary reason it has such serious issues is that it is forced into the shadows.

[Johnny2X2X]

14. This is a very complex issue

At face value I am in favor of freedom and not criminalizing prostitution, but it's not that simple in that so few prostitutes do the work of their own free will, even when it is legal in their location.

No prostitute should be arrested for prostitution, the enforcement of it should 100% be focused on their customers and more importantly their traffickers. If you're going to make prostitution legal, you have to strictly enforce rules against anyone but the prostitute financially benefitting from the activity.

[genxlib]

24. That is all part of the regulation

And it would no doubt be complex.

But I would be wary of rules like you describe because there would be a need for booking services, hosting hotels, websites, agents, call centers, etc. There are hundreds of way that people beyond the sex workers could legitimately make a profit while assisting the professionals.

[Johnny2X2X]

44. It is legal a lot of places

And there's a wide array of results, in some places it's legal, human trafficking and violence against women goes up, others it goes down.

[ChicagoRonin]

12. Be cautious in painting with too broad a brush

(In the interests of full disclosure, I'm half second-generation Korean)

While there has been confirmed reporting and prosecuted cases of Asian-owned massage parlors that were fronts for prostitution and other criminal activity, I'd caution against jumping to conclusions about that in this case and any others.

Places where you can get a hot bath, massage and relax are popular and frequent destinations for recreation in South Korea. Japan as well. Like barbershops in the African American community, they sometimes serve as safe spaces where people can meet, speak in their own language, read magazines and play games.

There's really fancy high-end places (Look up King Spa if you've never been) and there's small, family-owned storefronts in strip malls. I've been to both myself.

While I understand the concerns you and others are raising about human trafficking, it also risks diluting the conversation about the killer's motives, and providing a convenient *reason* for his actions. I'm sure conservative media is ramping up similar arguments as we speak (though probably with a lot less nuance and a lot of hypocritical moralizing).

If it turns out these spas were just mom-and-pop businesses by people trying to service their communities and make a living, they do not deserve to be lumped together with the less legitimate operations.

Have you seen the ages of the victims? The youngest was in their 30s, and the rest were all older (some even elderly). That's not really the age demographic for a lot of people employed as sex workers.

Just putting this out there.

[Phoenix61]

17. I've never been to King Spa but looking at the

photos I could spend an entire day there.

[ChicagoRonin]

31. I hope that's not your sole take-away

But it is a great place, and I haven't been there since the pandemic started

[Phoenix61]

38. No, it's not. There's lots of Asian massage places

where I live. One, which I’ve been to, is known for the best massages in town.

[Abnredleg]

13. Human trafficking through massage parlors is a real thing

According to this report, there are more than 9,000 illicit parlors in the US.

[link:https://polarisproject.org/massage-parlor-trafficking/]

[link:https://udayton.edu/blogs/udhumanrights/2020/20-04-24-imb.php|


The problem, of course, is differentiating between the legal and the illicit.

[Johnny2X2X]

15. 9000!

I'm sure there are some outside these 9000 that are legit businesses, but those are unfortunately the exception.

[Tommymac]

83. Sorry, you are wrong.

I'd say that 9 out of 10 Asian run massage businesses in the Pittsburgh area are legit.

Yes, there are illicit ones - but over the last 20 years there has been a massive crackdown on them, and they are the outliers.

I cannot speak for the rest of the Nation, but I'm sure that the ratio of legit to illicit is nowhere what you are saying.

If you have legit studies to back up your assertion t hen please link them. If not, you are treading a thin line on this topic imo.

[Johnny2X2X]

89. Glad Pittsburgh cracked down

In West Michigan, none of them appear legit, and many get raided from time to time.

https://supchina.com/2020/01/30/chinese-moms-in-americas-illicit-massage-parlors/

https://polarisproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Human-Trafficking-in-Illicit-Massage-Businesses.pdf

There are 9,000 in the country. I'd be surprised if 9 out of 10 in Pittsburgh are legit, but even if so, there are cities where very few are legit.

One small thing we can all do is to Shut down “happy endings” jokes. If a friend makes one, take the opportunity to share what you know about human trafficking in IMBs. If you see one in a movie or on TV, write a letter or use social media to call it out.

And to not refer to the women at these illicit places for sex as prostitutes, they are victims of human trafficking and should be IDed as such as a default.

[USALiberal]

90. Link to proof! Nt

[uponit7771]

103. You're post is about "illicit" establishments the OP posted "too often" not qualifying the illicit

... part as if people can't tell the difference.

This looks horrible

[triron]

16. 7 Asians are murdered and this is the kind of BS post we get? WTF!

[Johnny2X2X]

22. It's an opportunity to focus on how they were likely victims before they were murdered

Doesn't discount their deaths at all. These are women, foreign nationals, likely here against their will being forced into the sex industry and some wacked out racist maniac murdered them.

And then you have a sheriff on TV as the face of the investigation who showed compassion for the maniac and offered excuses for him. A sheriff who is racist against Asians and was a paid mercenary, whose words obviously showed he doesn't value their lives. It's all sick and it's an absolute crime against humanity that we let human trafficking occur in so many cities right out in the open. Someone just posted that there are 9,000 illicit massage parlors in the US. 9,000 places for human trafficking that are allowed to exist mostly because of sexism and racism.

[TomCADem]

82. Seems Like Blaming The Victim That Will Inspire A Series of Stings By Racist DAs Parading...

... humiliated Asian women out of one of these establishments to combat human trafficking?



You have a racist, mysoginistic murderer, and rather than placing the blame on him, we want to place the blame on the victims?

[Johnny2X2X]

84. Who's blaming the victims?

I'm blaming the people who victimized them by forcing them to work there and the murderer. And I'm blaming racism in our society that is the reason 9000 illicit massage parlors exist in the US that are centers for human trafficking.

[uponit7771]

104. The people leaving "illicit" out of description regarding a business related to an ethnicity? tia

[quaint]

25. Thank you.

[IronLionZion]

57. It appeals to people's racial biases and stereotypes. nt

[uponit7771]

69. right ?!

[Sympthsical]

20. I want you to be careful with this sentiment

There are parlors that are totally legitimate. And I don't want people to fall into a stereotype, "Asian massage = prostitutes." That's a dangerous, stereotypical assumption. Massage is part of Asian culture in many places. And it's a legitimate business.

However, it is common enough that I want people to at least side-eye some of these places. Know what you're frequenting.

I live in a Filipino family. They get massages from their favorite place in town. It's a thing. Growing up white, this is not a thing for me. I have never gone, because I'm not super comfortable with getting naked and touched by strangers. They, however, love it. They go once a month or so. Both males and females. So, as far as I know, it's a legitimate business.

But, Asian massage places are ground zero for human trafficking and also just trapping immigrants who are merely looking to survive.

If you're ever offered a happy ending, look closely at the place. These women are probably not managing that one willingly. They're probably not only being told that expectation by the owner, but they may have a perception that the Western world expects Asian women to sexually service them.

I guess I'm just saying, be aware. But don't assume.

[Johnny2X2X]

28. All 3 of these locations were listed on Rubmaps as a place you can go for sex

Last edited Thu Mar 18, 2021, 11:05 AM - Edit history (1)

My whole point is that this is not actually "prostitution", this is human trafficking where women are forced to perform under threat to their freedom or threat of violence.

These women were victims, not prostitutes.

[Sympthsical]

52. That's my working assumption based on information so far

There are places where women are trafficked and forced into it. They were promised a "better life" in America, and then they end up in that shit.

The murderer seems to have had eight million hang ups about sex. I'm just going off what we know so far. So he targeted places that he connected with sex in his mind. And some of those massage parlors do purvey in sex.

But it's not like those women wanted to do that. It's not like they were like, "My dream is to move to America and give hand jobs." No, they're victims. In every sense of that word.

I have Korean friends and a Korean ex (from actual Korea, not an immigrant), and it's like the biggest story there right now. Four Koreans gunned down in America. And apparently - I've not seen for myself - the media is now digging into how they got there, the immigration, the trafficking.

I wish our media was doing that.
"

[Elessar Zappa]

26. There are both kinds.

I wouldn’t say prostitution occurs in the majority. They are a very important part of some Asians’ culture. People go there to shoot the shit and get a massage. So it’s important not to paint with too broad a brush.

[Johnny2X2X]

33. I changed my thread title

Not all of them are human trafficking centers, just most.

[Blue_Adept]

32. Someone's bigotry is showing

It really is that simple.

[Iggo]

34. Fuck this shit.

[Squinch]

35. People don't really care about human trafficking. The replies in this thread are examples of proof

of that.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Agree

Even calling them prostitutes diminishes what is really happening. All 3 of these establishments were listed on sites that advertise sex. But people want to take pointing that out as an attack on Asian culture somehow.

These places exist in every town, they occasionally get raided, but there is rarely a real earnest effort to stop them from happening. We have large scale human trafficking going on in the open and yet people still make jokes about it even after 8 women were murdered at these locations. And they are allowed to exist in large part because of a racism that fetishizes and dehumanizes Asian women.

[Beastly Boy]

81. Human trafficking is not exclusive to Asian massage parlors.

To limit the context of human trafficking to Asians, or to sex workers, or to massage parlors, and to bring attention to it only in the instances of a mass shooting, grossly belittles the issue. This is the sense I get from the replies in this thread, not lack of empathy.

[kcr]

93. They don't

Human trafficking doesn't exist. It's all empowered sex workers enjoying themselves while earning money for college while falling in love with their customers. Can't destroy that fantasy.

[BannonsLiver]

36. I'm always amazed at the knee jerk

And folks who can't process more than one idea or thought at a time. Many of the responses in the thread are clinics in both.

[uponit7771]

71. Walking and chewing gum isn't the problem here this Post is right place wrong time time

[kcr]

94. No it isn't

Victims who are trafficked often meet violent ends.

[uponit7771]

97. Irrelevant to the racism suggested in the OP

[kcr]

106. How?

You think racism and violence are separate? Since when?

[obamanut2012]

41. Thank you for posting this

It is really gross, reading some posts here.

The same with many nail salons and many Chinese restaurants.

[Johnny2X2X]

43. You're welcome

It was not my intention to insult Asian Culture at all, human trafficking is not Asian Culture. But human trafficking on a massive scale is allowed to exist in the US because of racism against Asian women.

There are 9,000 illicit massage parlors in the US today, the overwhelming majority of them traffic women from Asian countries. If they were trafficking girls from white English speaking countries the country would move heaven and earth to shut them down and rescue all of the girls being held captive at them.

[Treefrog]

48. Huh? Nail salons and many Chinese restaurants?

Are you saying they’re fronts for prostitution? If I read your post wrong, I apologize, but that’s what I’m reading in your response to the op.

[uponit7771]

72. +1, I'm reading some really racist shit in this thread

[IronLionZion]

76. We have plenty of racism on the left

threads like this reveal that it's not just a problem on the right.

[uponit7771]

77. +1, I'm thinking Biden should come out with a PSA saying racism is wrong

.... Seems like he would be the right person for the talk

[TomCADem]

85. +1 A lot of blaming the victim. Rather than calling out racism and mysogyny

You are going to give the green light to people blaming the victim under the guise of combatting human trafficing. Perhaps we should prosecute the Robert Krafts of the world, rather than broadly attacking the Asian community. Chinese restaurants? That is some serious racist BS there.

https://www.longisland.com/news/05-07-18/four-women-arrested-during-raid-of-hauppauge-massage-parlor-scpd-reports.html

Four Women Arrested During Raid of Hauppauge Massage Parlor, SCPD Reports

Hauppauge, NY - May 7, 2018 - Suffolk County Police today arrested four women for unlicensed massages during a raid at a massage parlor in Hauppauge.

In response to numerous community complaints, Suffolk County Police Fourth Precinct Crime Section officers, and Town of Islip Fire Marshal executed a search warrant at the Royal Spa, located at 901 A Motor Parkway in Hauppauge at approximately 4 p.m.

Hailian Shen, 49, of Flushing, Chunhua Cui, 50, of Flushing, Guiyu Piao, 48, of Flushing, and Aihong Wang, 49, of Little Neck were all arrested and charged with Unauthorized Practice of a Profession, a Class E Felony under the New York State Education law. In addition, Cui, Piao and Wang were also charged with Prostitution.

During the investigation conducted by the Town of Islip Fire Marshal numerous violations and summons were issued.

[Johnny2X2X]

92. 100% agree with prosecuting the Robert Krafts of the world

No one is blaming the murder victims, I'm simply pointing out that based on the evidence around the 3 places that were attacked, these women were likely victims of human trafficking before they were shot.

[dlk]

45. Trafficking is another form of slavery

Our country has a history of slavery that can’t help but impact our views toward trafficking. The evil continues.

[Johnny2X2X]

46. Globally, slavery never went away

There are places in the world today where human beings are bought and sold in large numbers. There is human trafficking on a massive scale on all 5 continents.

[Roc2020]

47. Slavery still exist

[ismnotwasm]

50. Sex trafficking, and sex work are different than getting murdered. Sometimes

Are some “massage” parlors fronts? Yes. Are all the workers trafficked? No, some are legitimate as they can be workers in an massive, illegal, unregulated industry that leaves them vulnerable because of how we view sex work.

This is a complex issue that I myself have had to evolve on, I used to think that women had little agency in sex work, as it is a economic black hole to fall in. Not a choice. Can’t “choose” to be objectified when you are born objectified. And it was.

I used to think that it’s very prone to violence, to addiction, that legislation could lead to even more sex trafficking. I still think that l—I was more for decriminalization, so we could quit punishing women, but here’s where I’ve changed the most, albeit not that much

Right now, sex trafficking is horrific. The demand for women, men and children, the rise of fetish sex is not only out of control, but after this calms down, nobody will care.

(As an aside, Anybody who reads serial killer documentaries knows who the victims too often are)

Sex work is not changing, but sex workers are. There are a lot of women, especially, advocating for themselves. There’s a lot of on-line work, no person to person contact. Exotic dancers in a surprising number of places are athletic, in shape and healthy.

Trafficking in children is more common that people want to understand.

Street workers are still addicted, abused and horrifyingly vulnerable.

Anyway, now, I no longer assume women have zero choice in becoming a sex worker. And here is where the complexity of the issue requires serious thought. The safest way for sex workers seems to be legalization and regulations with automatic harsh punishments for trafficking, for abusing sex workers, for soliciting underage victims

They need to become a protected class. A respected class.

And here’s where I fail, where my thought process fails, because for to many men and a surprising number of women still think they are somehow “owed” access to sex. It’s a powerful drive, this entitlement. And women have been treated like shit for millennia.

[Klaralven]

51. Generations of American males have patronized "massage parlors" in the Far East

There are extensive red light districts adjacent to every big American base.

[IronLionZion]

54. The shooter's RW supporters are already using that for sympathizing with him

if it's true, then those women were being victimized twice, by the traffickers and by the murderer.

Let's avoid broad generalizations of a complex issue. It still appeals to people's racial biases to think of them as criminals before having all the facts.

[SayItLoud]

55. Robert Kraft got lucky. NT

[BannonsLiver]

62. Funny you bring that up

When he got caught there was a lot of discussion about the ills of human trafficking and association with strip mall massage parlors. Now we're not supposed to talk about it, apparently.

[rictofen]

96. You nailed it n/t

[speaknow]

56. Now I got it. Only Asian massage parlors are

into human trafficking? No other RACE is?
Thanks for telling me what you are!

[uponit7771]

74. right ?! Is it me or is this some really racist shit on this op?

[BobTheSubgenius]

58. I'm guessing that cases are very hard to make, especially to take them back to the source.

It might even be difficult to show enough probable cause to get a warrant. I halfway assume these things, because there really is no other reason to hold back. They are so in-your-face that people like Robert Kraft are at least rumoured to frequent them.

Now, on the other side of the coin, if everyone involved is an adult and doing it voluntary, merely being "seedy" - or whatever adjective you care to apply - is not a good enough reason to criminalize it.

[Johnny2X2X]

86. They are easy to raid

The police know where they are, they occasionally set up stings and then raid them. But there's just not a will to really take the problem seriously.

This is why human trafficking thrives, instead of recognizing that many of these places are hubs for human trafficking, we want to spend all of our efforts defending the ones that might not be human trafficking hubs.

[bucolic_frolic]

87. Did he bump off the customers as well?

Last edited Thu Mar 18, 2021, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

I didn't think so.

Oh, wait. Yes, he did. He shot a husband and wife. What a cruel, sadistic sociopath.

[rictofen]

95. DU didn't mind the sex trafficking angle when it involved Bob Kraft

In fact, DU highlighted and underscored it. Because people hate Kraft, and therefore wanted to put the worst possible spin on it at the time.

I'm glad you posted this. I recall your posts on the matter during the Kraft incident, and you've been very consistent on this. Others have done a total 180.

I'm glad you posted.

[uponit7771]

99. I'm not, negatively generalizing ethnicities without qualification should never be allowed on DU

[Iggo]

105. Because the Kraft story wasn't about the murder of 8 people.

Last edited Thu Mar 18, 2021, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

To post something like this right on the heels of several attempts to whitewash the murderer and what he did is what’s activating the jerking of the knees.

And the people who act surprised at the reaction to this shit are doing exactly that...acting.