I don't want to see women's athletics get the same degree of support as men's

[Silent3]

I'd much rather see men's sports get all the time and attention and money that women's sports do now.

Maybe even less for both. Sports is way overrated in our society.

Obviously lots of people care a whole lot more about athletic competition as entertainment that I do. And that's their right, of course. But it still seems a strange value system to me, especially when you consider how much some athletes get paid for what they do, compared to doctors and teachers and many people of great intellectual achievement -- stuff which is more important, but I suppose less entertaining to watch.

Where this particularly bothers me is college sports. College should be about education primarily. With a few exceptions, most colleges LOSE money on sports, meaning money that could be spent on education is being pissed away. Sports is probably raising tuition costs for people who are there to learn, not to toss a ball around or run up and down a field.

High school sports certainly teaches all the wrong lessons about what's important in education. Win the football championship, get a parade. Win at debate or chess, get a pizza party maybe.

[Beakybird]

1. Hey. An original thinker here. I like it!

Competitive leapfrog. That should be a sport.

[AZProgressive]

2. Sports bring in huge revenues

The athletes get a share of those revenues.

No one complains about the salaries A-list actors receive.

As far as the NCAA my position is simple. I want them to have the same labor rights we enjoy as Americans.

[Silent3]

4. Not for many of the colleges involved in sports

I have less trouble with professional sports, although I still think it shows that society itself, that pays so much directly or indirectly to be entertained by sports, has a strange and distorted set of values.

The emphasis is all wrong for colleges and high schools, however.

[AZProgressive]

5. It isn't about values

It is about supply and demand. Patrick Mahomes is more difficult to replace.

In the NCAA networks, coaches, etc make big money off their labor. You can't have football games without football players.

[Silent3]

6. That demand you speak of...

...is an expression of values. We demand what we value.

[AZProgressive]

7. I like sports more than most scripted television or film

When it comes to sports I'm more worried about owners threatening to relocate for stadium subsidies & the NCAA should give college players the same labor rights we all enjoy.

[3Hotdogs]

11. If college athletes get big pay, that comes out of the university's income.... tuition increases.

O.T.O.H., Rutgers has spent close to a billion on new stadium, coach and whatever, to join the Big 10. The program loses money every year. It used to be one of the most prestigious colleges in the country - without a big football program. Now, the place sucks.

[AZProgressive]

12. They wanted to join the Big Ten because of The Big Ten Network

Rutgers is always used as an example of some schools shouldn't pay so much for a football program. I found this.

NCAA rules allow White students and coaches to profit off labor of Black ones, study finds

The National Collegiate Athletic Association’s long-standing policy prohibiting profit-sharing with college athletes effectively allows wealthy White students to profit off the labor of poor Black ones.

That’s the stark conclusion of a new working paper released by the National Bureau of Economic Research. The paper uses revenue and expense data for college athletic departments to trace the flow of billions in annual revenue generated by NCAA sports, particularly basketball and football.

The NCAA prohibits college athletes from being compensated for their labor. The rule is rooted in the concept of the “student-athlete,” a term the association’s first executive director coined “to help the NCAA fight against workmen’s compensation insurance claims for injured football players,” as Jon Solomon, editorial director of the Aspen Institute Sports and Society Program, puts it.

(Snip)

But college sports today bear little resemblance to their amateur origins. “We’re talking about athletic departments with $100 million budgets,” said Craig Garthwaite, lead author of the study. “That’s a commercial enterprise. It is a modern business endeavor and we thought we should analyze it that way.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/07/ncaa-student-athletes-pay-equity/

[druidity33]

81. The Supreme Court, believe it or not...

is currently hearing a case that may cripple the NCAA. And it looks like it may happen:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a36003386/supreme-court-ncaa-student-athlete-pay/


"The case before the court was filed as a class action against the NCAA and the major athletic conferences in 2014, arguing that the NCAA’s restrictions on eligibility and compensation violate federal antitrust laws by barring the athletes from receiving fair-market compensation for their labor. A federal district court in California ruled that the NCAA could restrict benefits that are unrelated to education (such as cash salaries), but it prohibited the NCAA from limiting education-related benefits (such as free laptops or paid post-graduate internships). The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld that decision, setting the stage for the Supreme Court’s review in NCAA v. Alston."

"The only hope the NCAA seems to have based on Wednesday’s session is that several of the judges seemed concerned that deciding against the NCAA would cause college sports as we know it to collapse. (There’s also some disagreement over whether or not this is a proper antitrust case.) This is some serious horse-out-of-the-barn thinking. Back in 1988, the Supreme Court ruled for the NCAA in a case brought by basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian. The Court’s ruling was based on the premise that the members schools voluntarily belonged to the NCAA and, thus, were bound to enforce the organization’s rules. The response of the justices on Wednesday indicated that the thinking behind the Tarkanian decision is finally obsolete. There’s too much money involved, and that’s something every corner of our political universe understands."

[dlk]

38. The NCAA seems to make $millions

Something is twisted.

[Funtatlaguy]

3. Furthering your argument, the USA values entertainment way too much.

Show me what you value, and I’ll show you who you are.
Who makes the most money? Athletes, Actors, Singers.
We value people who can sing, dance, act, run, jump, etc. much more than people who teach us, protect us, and care for us.
We are an overly Entertainment heavy society.

[hlthe2b]

10. Yes. The day that documentaries or "Learning Master Classes" get every much "buzz" & accolades as

Marvel comics movies... Yeah, right. That day will come.

[RVN VET71]

25. America's "Philosopher King" is currently

living in Mar-a-Lago.

[Renew Deal]

14. It's a supply and demand problem.

There are around 700 MLB players and 1,700 MLB players.

That’s compared with 3.5 million teachers and approximately 1 million medical doctors.

[whathehell]

16. Who should tell them what to "value"?

The fact is, Americans work longer hours and get far less vacation time than workers in other countries -- If they want entertainment, they should have it

[Funtatlaguy]

20. I just see us as being overly entertained and radically ill informed.

Few High schoolers know the three branches of government and who their Governor is.
But they all know about the popular entertainers of their time.
Modern technology has anchored them to meaningless things coming from their cell phones and social media sites.
We have been purposely dumbed down and many of us now accept entertaining lies over truth.
Part of being an overly consumer oriented society. We all want a lot of things that make us worse people. More selfish, greedy, and less empathic.

[whathehell]

24. Of course you do..

It's an old trope. That said, I'm not sure it's an either/or situation. I think one can be well informed AND well entertained.
.

[Funtatlaguy]

26. Ok. Thanks and have a good evening.

[whathehell]

29. Lol

It's morning -- In America.

[HUAJIAO]

42. Agreed

[smirkymonkey]

75. +1000

[speak easy]

8. Yes. Pay women less. A lot less. :sarcasm:

Sometimes I wonder why we pay women anything at all.

cf.

[Silent3]

9. You missed the point.

Pay the men what she gets, not her what they get. Equal pay by paying less to men, not more to woman.

Of course, the market will decide who gets paid what in the end. I'm just expressing what I value and how much I value it.

[whathehell]

21. That may be because your subject line was misleading, purposely, it seems

in order to get eyeballs.

[Treefrog]

44. That's not at all what your op says.

Trashing thread.

[Renew Deal]

13. The problem in this case is that you don't understand sports.

Professional athletes get paid more than doctors and teachers for supply and demand reasons. There are many more doctors and teachers than there are professional athletes.

Athletics teach many lifelong lessons that aren’t similarly achievable in a classroom. Someone that wins a field hockey championship learns more about leadership, competition, and teamwork on the field than they would working on most group projects in the classroom.

[Silent3]

15. I certainly understand the supply and demand aspect

And it's the high demand where society expresses a skewed sense of value.

Does the data show that star high school athletes go on to become better at non-athletic things in the rest of their lives? Make better bosses and managers? Teach better? Save more lives? Heal more illnesses? Raise happier children?

[Renew Deal]

19. It suits your argument to only look at the demand side.

There are very few elite/professional athletes.

On your second question, the answer is yes and there’s tons of resources showing that.

https://www.muhealth.org/conditions-treatments/pediatrics/adolescent-medicine/benefits-of-sports

That’s one of the reasons gym classes are mandatory.

[Silent3]

28. That article blurs the distinction between exercise and sports

And says nothing about aggrandizing sports achievement over academic achievement in schools.

[reACTIONary]

17. K&R

[Ferrets are Cool]

18. Sports is an important part of society. Two things I hate about sports, however, are

1) Win at any cost.
2) If you don't get caught you aren't cheating.

But, when so much money and prestige is involved, those two things get lost.

[mac2766]

22. I agree with the OP. Completely.

I was a high school athlete. I played little league baseball, high school football, was a wrestler, and even ran cross country one year to get into shape for the wrestling team.

I used to watch college basketball, pro basketball when Larry Bird was playing (he played at the college in my home town), and used to love watching football. I was also an avid boxing fan at one time.

Strikes, pay per view, cable television premium channel rates, etc... I got to the point that it was all too consuming and cost way too much. I'm glad I stopped watching. I'll still watch the occasional hockey, football, or basketball game. It's very obvious that since I don't support any one team, I find myself with the realization that every game is the same as all of the other games. It's the same repetitive game over and over and over.... and over. I find watching team sports very boring.

Now... golf! That's a sport that I can watch.

[Elessar Zappa]

23. High school sports

can really turn around kids who are on the wrong path. I've seen it numerous times. There's nothing wrong with sports. As far as I'm concerned it's just as valid as art, theater, etc.

[Silent3]

30. Does it do as much or more good for the kids who are good at sports...

...than the harm done to those who are ostracized for being bad at sports, and don't get anywhere near the same acclaim and recognition and peer support for academic achievement?

[mopinko]

33. there are many kinds of intelligence. 8 was howard gardener's number.

i think there are more. all should be developed in all children.
physical intelligence is a thing you need in general. as someone who had neuro issues that interfered w mine most of my life, but now doesnt, it's a VERY useful thing.

just like every other kind of intelligence, some will be lacking. if all kids get a chance to shine at what they shine at, that cycle you speak of is broken.

[Silent3]

34. The skewed emphasis on sports prevents every kid from getting that chance.

There is, in fact, such an anti-intellectual streak in our culture that being smart isn't even merely neutral, it's often a basis for social isolation and rejection. When the adults put so much emphasis on sports, what message does that send to the children in school? The kid who catches the football might be the self-esteem boost you're talking about, but the kid who solves a tough calculus problem gets slammed against a locker and his or her books knocked onto the floor.

[mopinko]

48. you're just wrong there. there are more music scholarships out there than athletic.

5 to 1, btw.
any school that has a team has a band. and they have boosters. and they have events.

most hs's also have theater or arts.
we need to give all our kids a chance to shine at what they shine at.
good schools do that.

i'm not saying they balance is perfect, but "entertainment" is the thing that makes us human.
we need to nurture it if we want to have it.
that goes for arts, music, writing, science, and sports.

[Silent3]

57. Band and theater are nice extras too, but they aren't the main point of high school either

And scholarships aren't the only measure of social support.

Do well at sports? You're the great hero of the school. Do well at band? Maybe get some recognition, possibly a scholarship.

Do well at chemistry, get a wedgie.

[CrackityJones75]

65. Do you honestly think

Do you honestly think that if you get rid of sports that will solve all of your other issues you mention? You think the jocks are the ones that cause all of the issues? Sorry but that isn’t really the case. The entirety of society isn’t the movie Nerds from the 80’s and there is a LOT more that goes into it starting with how the kids are raised and what we are teaching them. There are likely MORE kids not involved in sports that are likely to give someone a “wedgie”. They don’t have the consequence if being thrown off the team and lose everything they have worked for... And that does happen.

I really do not understand the negative fantasy of picking on kids that put in the time and effort to excel at something they love. Be it sports, arts, academia or whatever.

Somewhere in this thread there was a stat about band getting more scholarships than athletes. That is precisely why their celebrations and accolades are different. You can say that they aren’t congruent and that may be true but when 5 times as many kids are going off to college on a less expensive ride do we really need to complain about John y and Suzy being celebrated for achieving theor goals on the playing field? Come on...

[empedocles]

32. Along the same lines college sports enable many kids who may go the

wrong path, a chance to get a college education. Of the 85 scholarship kids on a college football teams, just a very few have nfl playing skills.

The football program often gets scholarships for 'non-revenue' sports for other students.

That said, the huge salaries for coaches and ncaa execs are ridiculous - regulate that.

[AZProgressive]

37. I have some college education

One of the college courses I took was Economics of Sports and based on that education I support compensating NCAA athletes. If anyone took the course they would feel the same way unless they were a trickle down economist.

[HUAJIAO]

46. "High school sports can really turn around kids who are on the wrong path."

Not as well as 'music and the arts.'

[mopinko]

71. yes, just as well. just not the same kids.

and both things turn them around because they tap into their strengths. and they arent the ones the kids who excel academically have.

that's the thing about schools. one size never has fit all.

[HUAJIAO]

73. Well, we will just have to disagree about the differences in "life" benefits

between sports and the arts, in particular the study of music.

[mopinko]

78. kids need them all. tbh, tho, letting them self organize would be better for them.

like when i was a kid.
i would be all for noncompetitive physical education. i'm more about the importance of that kind of intelligence.
more health and fitness and less glory and hero worship works for me.

[HUAJIAO]

80. We certainly agree on that....

[Victor_c3]

27. I never understood the fascination with watching a bunch of millionaires chasing around a ball

Many of them even have bad attitudes while doing it

[HUAJIAO]

47. yup....

[lagomorph777]

62. I've always been completely mystified by it.

People tend to assume I'll be excited about it, because I'm male. I can't stand even the sound of "the big game" on a TV.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

66. Do you have the same attitude toward movies/TV?

That's just a bunch of millionaires playing make believe.

[Scrivener7]

31. I totally agree.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. Cheap title, weak thesis, poorly supported with speculation and opinion. D+.

[Tommymac]

39. +1

[Treefrog]

45. You're more generous than I.

[obamanut2012]

85. You are grading on a curve

F.

[Tommymac]

36. Sports is integral to humanity. At it's best it is an art form.

And it can be a valuable teaching moment, plus a path for those less fortunate to move up in the world.

Do you advocate not teaching art, music and creative writing in schools?????

Not every kid is intellectually equipped to be a rocket scientist or a doctor or a lawyer...just like not every kid can excel physically or artistically.

The more paths open for people to improve their lives, the better.

The vast majority of college level athletes get a regular job. But their scholarships allow them to get an education and a chance to improve their lot in life.

Is the system flawed and does it reek of inequality at times? Fuck YES! So does Capitalism.

But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - fix the system.

[Silent3]

43. It's like recognizing that vitamin A is good for you, then taking toxic overdoses of it

I never said there was no good to be found in sports, but our culture, and especially our educational institutions, way, WAY overemphasize sports, to the detriment of academics.

[appleannie1]

40. Compare what a ball player makes to someone in a Symphony Orchestra.

Both entertain and both have extraordinary talent, yet their pay is vastly different. The pay scale in sports has reached a level where ordinary people cannot afford to take their family to games, let alone buy them a sandwich while there.

[AZProgressive]

50. It isn't because of the athletes salaries

Supply and demand sets the ticket prices. It is probably affordable to attend a Phoenix Coyotes game because there isn't much demand. They are basically setting ticket prices at the highest price they can get away with. Stadiums charge more for food or beverages for the same reason movie theaters do. It is the All or nothing approach.

The reason for the higher salaries are the new stadiums with revenue generating amneities and they bring in more profits overall. Team owners use relocation threats to get sweetheart deals from cities/counties/states.

[HUAJIAO]

55. THANK YOU !

I've been trying how to decide to express my support for the OP.. too early yet, still on my 1st coffee..
The base salary for the top 10 or so orchestras in the USA is around $135,000.

And that ($) is just the beginning.

I don;t even see classical music as 'entertainment' but that's another discussion.
Even DU has CLASSICAL MUSIC group listed under ENTERTAINMENT.. kinda irks me but,

[lame54]

94. Try dragging that same family to a symphony orchestra...

They'll run off in different directions

Sports has a much bigger appeal

[appleannie1]

105. When I was in fifth and sixth grade my girlfriend and I used to got to the junior symphony once

a month on the street car all by ourselves. And to be honest, I would rather go to a symphony than a baseball game. I guess it all depends on whether parents get their kids involved with music at a young age or not.

[appleannie1]

106. When I was in fifth and sixth grade my girlfriend and I used to go to the junior symphony once

a month on the street car all by ourselves. And to be honest, I would rather go to a symphony than a baseball game. I guess it all depends on whether parents get their kids involved with music at a young age or not.

[bucolic_frolic]

41. There was a time in the 60s and 70s when athletes had regular jobs in the off season

Like ordinary jobs commensurate with their non-athletic skills.

[Jon King]

49. Impossible for me to disagree more.

As a parent and long, long time youth coach I have seen sports change so many lives. Focusing on the bad parts is possible for anything. Of course there are examples of sports being given the wrong emphasis. But overall it can teach so many amazing lessons.

Focusing on the money aspect is wrong to me. Most well paid athletes are minorities. The worlds best plumber gets paid more than the worlds worst plumber, the worlds top doctor makes more than the worlds best teacher. It is what it is.

The attention is always what it is.....should we force folks to enjoy watching a chess match on TV as much as they did watching Michael Jordan move between 5 different defenders, contort his body, float through the air, and dunk? Seriously? How exactly do we require the same amount of people to enjoy watching a skilled figure skater as they so a debate competition?

[Silent3]

54. When people speak of inequities between men's and women's sports, however, the money...

...is the biggest inequity that's spoken about. Not "I have seen sports change so many lives".

"How exactly do we require the same amount of people to enjoy watching a skilled figure skater as they so a debate competition?"

I'm just expressing my own sense of values, and my opinion, not a market-based solution. My opinion when it comes to professional sports is merely a matter of personal (dis-) taste.

When it comes to college and high school sports, however, I have a much stronger opinion about institutions that should be about academics putting such a huge emphasis on sports, quite often to the detriment of academics. Education shouldn't be prioritized by entertainment value.

[BradBo]

51. Absolutely agree. Look at other country's that far out pace us in intelligence and smart governing.

I’m as big a sports fan as there is. But our collegiate sports hurt our country. It’s like a kid that never grows up.

[Jon King]

52. Wow, this is so wrong.

The past 10 years we have spent working very closely with college athletes. You could not be any more wrong. I would say 95% are disciplined and amazing in their other interests and community involvement. They are mostly also at or above the level of their peers academically.

For every football player taking rocks for jocks and being used and discarded, there are 10 other football guys doing great things in the community and 100 athletes in other sports volunteering and using all the good things they learned from sports as a positive.

I am going to log off now for a day or so....the sheer ignorance on this thread, the sheer amount of posters talking about things they do not really understand or simply regurgitating their biases without the entire story is off the charts.

[arlyellowdog]

53. Videos games and the internet

That’s the alternative for teenagers, even the ones with jobs or who do their homework. Sports is better than the alternative, which is often the internet targeting young boys and girls. My son had a life transforming coach for football and a total asshole coach for baseball. (He was smart enough to quit baseball). But, when I ask him why his kids also play sports, he repeats what his good football coach told him, “You’ll never play on Sunday, but if you love the game, it’s worth your time.” Before you diss sorts, consider the alternative.

[HUAJIAO]

56. Well stated.

[Wounded Bear]

58. As a sports fan, I have to agree with you...

Sports are over-emphasized in our culture.

College football and basketball coaches shouldn't make more money than professors.

[ancianita]

59. Agree. Thanks.

Even in sports there should be no "getting back to normal." Building back better means imagining and acting on a much better future.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

60. Many economically disadvantaged parents see sports as the only

way for their kids to go to college, if their child is not academically gifted enough to get a scholarship on their scholastic merits. I'd agree with you if college was free for everyone, but it's not, and every economically disadvantaged child that gets an opportunity to further their education has a much greater possibility of lifting themselves, and their families, out of poverty.

Ignorance is the greatest threat to democracy, as supporters of heinous orange have recently shown. More power to every economically disadvantaged kid who gets a shot at going to college, for whatever reason.

5 Myths About Athletic Scholarships

Athletic scholarships are rare. Only about 1% to 2% of undergraduate students in bachelor's degree programs receive sports scholarships, says Kathryn Knight Randolph, associate content editor at Fastweb, an online scholarship matching and search service.

According to the National Collegiate Athletic Association, more than 180,000 student-athletes receive around $3.6 billion in athletic scholarships in Divisions I and II each year.

For those who do receive sports scholarships, the funds can play a big role in helping families pay for college. Bruce Mesa Sr. knew a football scholarship could be a possibility when recruiters started visiting to see his son play as a junior at Catholic Memorial High School in Waukesha, Wisconsin. An offensive lineman, Bruce Mesa Jr. was one of the few in the school's history to play all four years on the varsity team.
..................
"He got a very handsome offer from Saint Xavier," Mesa Sr. says, adding that Saint Xavier University's estimated cost of attendance at the time was more than $45,000 per year. "He had to take out a Stafford loan for $5,500. They paid the rest, but you do still have to pay a portion."

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/myths-about-athletic-scholarships

[lagomorph777]

61. Sports has sadly corrupted our education system (grade school to university).

It's time we focus on education instead. We have fallen so far behind.

[CrackityJones75]

63. Wow. What a joke.

I am sorry but as a girls hockey coach I am pretty offended by some of the garbage being spewed here. I have coached kids from pre-k all the way up to high school and while I have seen some bad coaches, and some bad messaging overall I would say that sports are a massive positive in kids lives. I have watched kids put their heart and soul blood sweat and tears into sports that they absolutely love. I have coached kids that didn’t have any belief in themselves become strong and confident people that are integral to a team and believe in themselves. Are there kids that get ridiculed for not being good at a sport? Yep. Are there kids that get called dumb jocks? Yep. Because kids can be extremely cruel to each other because they are not fully developed humans.

There are people that enjoy sports. Watching sports. Coaching sports. Managing sports. Officiating sports. And all host of other activities around sports. Because they enjoy it. And you want to take that away? Or you want to dictate how much money someone can make to compensate them for the work time and effort they have put into it? Wow. While it may seem odd to me that someone will pay millions for a person that can hit a fastball, run a sub 4.4 forty, or any other sport related skill, that is their right to pursue compensation for their work. What should we do? Put limitations on how much someone should be able to make?
I will say that at an organizational level female athletes should make congruent compensation as their male counterparts. And not necessarily direct monetary compensation either. But things like tuition, boarding, etc.

However at the professional level the athletes skill is tied to their compensation as they are advocates for themselves (with representation) and have the right to ask what they want for their services. The fan market helps to pay these salaries. Want better pay for professional athletes? Start supporting them. Pay for attendance. Buy their merch. Follow them. Spread the word about their team and players.

But this talk about youth sports as a negative for our young athletes. Hogwash. Utter ridiculousness. By and large the overwhelming majority if sports is a massive positive for kids. And I think there are some real heavy preconceived notions and personal bias being thrown around here in this thread. What a joke.

[obamanut2012]

68. 100% agree

It is A PROVEN FACT that girls in sports, whether team, martial arts, etc., have more self confidence and self esteem, have lower pregnacy rates, and are in fewer abusive relations. Same with adult women.

I tend to more enjoy sports as a spectator than partaking now, except for golf, which I play at least once weekly. But, I better not even mention golf, because there is a rather aggressive cadre which semi-attacks DUers who play golf. It is all quite odd to me tbh.

The OP's title is very, very distasteful, as well.

[Silent3]

76. If society put great value on people balancing plates on their noses like trained seals...

...people were lauded for it, given parades for it, had colleges competing over it, paid lots of money for it, then you'd get the same results having kids join plate-balancing teams in school.

They'd get a great boost of self-esteem when they became really good at plate balancing. No doubt there would be inspiring coaches teaching the best plate balancing techniques, and great camaraderie with one's plate-balancing teammates. The school's mascot would be balancing a plate on its nose.

That wouldn't excuse schools putting more effort (the adults in the system as well as the kids) into promoting plate balancing over biology and chemistry and history and math. It's a skewed value system, whether its soccer or football or plates spinning on noses.

[obamanut2012]

79. tldr

[CrackityJones75]

101. Agreed!

Sometimes the stereotyping that goes on here is laughable if not so incredibly hypocritical.

[Silent3]

74. Please quote the text where I said about "Put[ting] limitations on how much someone should...

...be able to make", or "tak[ing] that away", or dictating anything.

I'll wait.

[druidity33]

84. Um, the title of your post?

I don't want to see women's athletics get the same degree of support as men's

Most people would assume support means, you know, the material kind. As in, you know, Money?

[obamanut2012]

87. Yup, 100% about not raising talented women UP

[Silent3]

89. Nope, all about *wishing for* (not insisting, demanding, dictating) equality...

...but at the lower lever of support women currently get, instead of at the exaggerated level men get.

[obamanut2012]

91. You literally just agreed with me it is about pushing women/girl athletes down

Not raising them up.

YOU LITERALLY JUST AGREED WITH ME.

[Silent3]

92. If the women's financial support stays where it is...

...and men's support drops to that level, how is that "pushing women/girl athletes" down?

And even for the men, what "pushing" would be involved if all that is expressed is my distaste for the money spent on sports, and what I deem an excessive priority for sports in supposedly academic institutions, with no legal proposals or use of force mentioned at all?

I know these up/level/down, wish/force distinctions are tricky, but work with me here.

[Silent3]

88. Besides the fact that the title has to be read along with the first line of the post...

...do you understand the oh-so-subtle difference between "want" and "dictate", or "putting limitations", or "taking away"?

You, for instance, might want to have better reading comprehension. That doesn't meaning you're doing a thing, however, to insist that it be so.

[CrackityJones75]

99. I started by responding to your post

I started by responding to your post. You’ll notice that I referred to “In this thread” as well.

[druidity33]

83. YES! And thank you!

Criminy, i didn't really want to dip my toes in here... thankfully you said everything i would have and phrased it nicer.

Cheers!

[CrackityJones75]

100. Thanks!

[thucythucy]

64. I absolutely agree with this. And then some.

I notice a number of posters who emphasize all the "good" that star athletes do for the community, college athletes included.

No one as yet has brought up the culture of sexism and homophobia so evident in sports culture.

We've seen so many instances of college sports programs minimizing or covering up for sexual abuse and assault, from "Gym Jordan" to Jerry Sandusky, you would think we were talking about the Catholic church. Indeed, "locker room talk" is a go-to phrase when discussing language that dehumanizes women and girls. And it isn't only women who are the targets, as the Jordan and Sandusky examples demonstrate, though women and girls bear the brunt of the cultural toxicity.

And it's not only college sports: how many times have we seen accounts of some high school "star athlete" being accused of rape or sexual assault, only to be given a pass when the crimes first come to light because "football is like religion here?"

We're finally--very slowly and very late--beginning to address these issues when it comes to our sports culture, but thus far I think we've only seen the tip of that toxic iceberg.

[obamanut2012]

70. Soooo much homophobia and sexism in LPGA, WMMA, WNBA, WNTUSA

etc.



Not.

Everything you stated has to do with toxic masculinity and men's sports. I will give you the environment around women's/girls/ gymnastics is gross, because of predators, but your ire is with men, not women and girls in athletics.

[thucythucy]

102. True.

Which is why I agree with the OP.

Cut the subsidies and other perks that men's sports receive down several hundred notches to the way women's sports are supported.

Are there instances of billion dollar bond issues being floated so cities can build stadiums to feature women's athletics?

[Ron Green]

67. "22 Men in Desperate Need of Rest, and 50,000 People

in desperate need of exercise.”

That’s a humorous definition of a football game, but it illustrates the problem of sports as entertainment rather than sport as a participatory and community-supporting activity. Add the hundreds of channels of sportsbiz on Cable and Satellite and see that “supply and demand” is indeed what’s going on here.

The U.S. offers dozens of brands of toothpaste, breakfast cereal and sports shows, but two political parties. This is way out of whack.

[FlyingPiggy]

69. Sports isn't dumb or worthless entertainment.

Playing sports is so important in building teamwork, perseverance, focus, concentration, mental toughness. Lot of life lessons in playing sports. And that doesn’t include the psychological benefits of stress reduction, decreasing cortisol levels, etc.

But you don’t have to give up sports to value education. I think the 2 go hand in hand. If you spend time playing basketball, it is good to see what it looks like at the top. What the potentials are and what the finished product looks like.

I don’t have a problem w athletes making the money they make. They help to bring in millions of dollars to a franchise through games and merchandising. I’m glad they are being compensated for it.

On a side note, I agree that public schools don’t put enough emphasis on education. But there are academic settings (like my daughter’s accelerated and nationally ranked charter school) that do put emphasis on academics. They treat and celebrate academics like regular schools do sports. During AP exams week, they have pep rallies and put up inspirational notes in the hallways and on every locker. It is great to see. But I do realize that is definitely not the norm and doesn’t happen in too many schools.

[BannonsLiver]

72. Ok

[BradAllison]

77. Cool story (n/m)

[Dawson Leery]

82. One item which most will agree on...

Sports should be private, 100%. There should be not one cent of public monies for sports, including the (corrupt) Olympics.

All sports must be private.

[Dawson Leery]

86. Most American high schools have a trophy case in the lobby.

America's priorities will bring it's decline. The American education system is the best form of birth control.

[obamanut2012]

90. And that case also holds debate, drama, etc. trophies

[Silent3]

93. I'd love to see a breakdown in trophy size, prominence, frequency of sports-only displays, etc.

The United States routinely spends more tax dollars per high-school athlete than per high-school math student—unlike most countries worldwide. And we wonder why we lag in international education rankings?

Even in eighth grade, American kids spend more than twice the time Korean kids spend playing sports, according to a 2010 study published in the Journal of Advanced Academics. In countries with more-holistic, less hard-driving education systems than Korea’s, like Finland and Germany, many kids play club sports in their local towns—outside of school. Most schools do not staff, manage, transport, insure, or glorify sports teams, because, well, why would they?

Athletics succeeded in distracting not just students but entire communities. As athletic fields became the cultural centers of towns across America, educators became coaches and parents became boosters.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/

Jenny Brundin: Well Ryan, what’s the first thing you see usually, when you walk into a high school?

Ryan Warner: The trophy case.

Jenny Brundin: Exactly. So this really sends a message about what the school values. The author Amanda Ripley asks the question: “What if Americans transferred our obsessive intensity about high school sports—the rankings, the trophies, the ceremonies, the pride—to high school academics?”

Ryan Warner: So the idea might be I walk into a high school and instead, I see the awards I got for being in Model United Nations. How much money goes into high school sports, compared to other areas?

Jenny Brundin: She reports that the U.S. routinely spends more tax dollars per high-school athlete than per high-school math student—unlike most countries worldwide. She starts the article by interviewing exchange students who are truly amazed by the emphasis on sports in American high schools.

https://www.cpr.org/show-segment/what-the-trophy-case-in-the-school-lobby-says-about-our-values/

[Dawson Leery]

95. In the high school I attended, it was all sports in that case.

[obamanut2012]

98. That's your experience, it isn;t mine

I was ranked 11th in my large class, was a Merit Scholar, editor of the yearbook and lit mag, and also lettered in three varsity sports. Our trophy cases were at least 75% drama, debate, etc., and we had three teams that were regional or state champs. I just looked at the HS's website, since I graduated a long time ago, and they are still the same: academic trophies more than share space with sports achievements.

Scholarly athletes are a thing, including those of us who are women.

[BannonsLiver]

97. Same here.

[BannonsLiver]

96. *its

[AZProgressive]

104. MLB does use the NCAA

Sometimes it is better to draft a ballplayer with 3 or 4 years of collegiate experience rather than an 18 year old out of high school.