Do you think "Vaccine Passports" are a good idea?

[NurseJackie]

Why or why not?

69 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	59 (86%)
	Perhaps
	4 (6%)
	I don't know
	1 (1%)
	Doubtful
	0 (0%)
	No
	5 (7%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[rzemanfl]

1. Ron DeSatan is against them. There are many good reasons, but that one is all I need. n/t

[Native]

19. Same reason for me!

[soothsayer]

2. Temporarily prolly

[marble falls]

3. They sure make sense to me for the airlines, maybe Amusement Parks, sports events, at least.

[SoonerPride]

4. I think it is an added level of safety for customers AND staff

Especially in enclosed / confined spaces like restaurants/bars/airplanes.

If you can show you have been a good citizen and done your part you gain access to spaces that would otherwise be off limits.

It both incentivizes positive societal norms and promotes the common welfare while also minimizing exposure to your most valuable asset, your employees.

To me it is a win-win-win situation.

[redstatebluegirl]

5. Kids have to have proof of vaccination to go to public school.

I don't think it is wrong to have to prove you are not going to help spread a pandemic.

[SoCalNative]

8. This

exactly

[Hugin]

6. If it were a license to uterus...

The Republicans would be all over it.

Seriously.

I think they have their place. Compliance should be as effortless as possible and waivers should be extraordinarily difficult to obtain. Living in a society has responsibilities like paying taxes.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

7. what a divisive question . . . .

[Jirel]

12. Only to people without a clue.

There should be no division among anyone with a basic grasp of science, and a sense of responsibility to themselves and others.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

54. Libertarianism and concern for others don't mix

Nor do fundamentalist religious a**h***s.

We have them in spades.

[NurseJackie]

14. What a divisive response . . . .

Oh good grief, GMAFB! It's meant to promote discussion, not to divide.



Besides, at least it's not a binary "yes/no" question, and people are invited to comment on why they feel as they do.



😷💉🏥🚑👩‍⚕️👨‍⚕️🥼🩺

[SleeplessinSoCal]

38. I was being ironic.

Hence...

I joined a discussion on Facebook and the religious right felt it extremely dictatorial.

I'm going to likely die in an insane asylum. Driven mad by religious zealots.

[NurseJackie]

40. Oh.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

56. Something shocking happened last night

The person I knew and reconnected with on Facebook who I challenged the most over his fervent religious views and devoriin to 45 died in hospital of Pulmonary embolism. Hundreds flocked to express their condolences.

[NurseJackie]

57. Tick-tock... we never know for sure when our clock runs out and our time is up.

Hundreds flocked to express their condolences.

I've done that... even for someone I didn't like. My condolences were NOT an indication that I liked or cared-about the deceased, instead, it was just a kindness for a loved-one who wasn't as bad.

[USALiberal]

53. Lol, so what???

[Hekate]

9. Hi, Jackie. I think we will have de-facto "passports" for many situations. ...

I suspect, for instance, that my husband isn’t going to let me bring back my cleaning ladies unless they can show the same certificate we have. I can see other employers (i.e. in offices and plants) deciding the same. Insurance companies might be making certain financial and coverage decisions, too.

I don’t know how the rest will play out. There’s people in this country that are probably willing to have an armed revolt over the issue, the way they are carrying on about masks.

Good luck to us, is all I can say.

[DBoon]

13. You check a contractor's license, whether they are bonded, etc.

A "vaccine passport" is similar

[NurseJackie]

16. It would make me feel better... as well as the staff of venues/businesses that required them.

I think it would be a temporary measure and one that would help speed things along.

[Jirel]

10. There are multiple reasons this is a good idea.

1) It should be usable not only by airlines and hotels, but by EMPLOYERS, to determine who's safe for others to be around. Vax passport status should be known by co-workers as well, on request.

2) High-contact travel (planes, buses, subways, cruise ships, etc.) should be limited to vaccinated people and those who can't be vaccinated (kids, people with genuine contraindications, etc.) but who have had a negative test.

3) For international travel to be a reasonable safe thing, there should be no international travel without vaccination, once vaccines are open to all. There is no reason that anyone should be bringing variants from country to country. For immigrants and asylum seekers, we should require free vaccination and comfortable quarantine housing for 2 weeks at the port of entry, or nearby, if they can not show proof of vaccine. (This was absolutely normal at places like Ellis Island, for example, during WWII. My parents and grandparents, for example, were deloused, treated for a variety of minor issues, vaccinated, examined, and housed temporarily - and then welcomed in without any fuss.)

We can kick this thing locally, nationally, and internationally, but only if we do right by those around us. If you're going to have some idiots who refuse to be vaxxed because their brains are broken, then they can reap the consequences of not being hired, not being able to travel on various carriers, not being accepted into hotels, etc. Their stupidity can not dictate pandemic response.

[Brother Buzz]

11. I'm cool with it, but I'm an old fart that remembers people running around getting inoculation...

records updated before traveling abroad. Domestically, I'm cool with the transportation industry demanding it, too.

[Vinca]

15. I think it will probably be a giant waste of time because we'll probably end up having to get

boosters on a yearly basis like a flu shot and because anyone can forge a passport if they find they really need one.

[genxlib]

17. Here is the nuance for me

The word "passport" implies government mandated paperwork.

While I think that it is warranted, I also think it is a complete disaster to try and implement in the divided times we have right now. After all, if we could get decent compliance on the vaccine then the idea of a passport becomes a whole lot less necessary. It is just going to devolve into a fight and not actually accomplish anything except stiffened resistance. Fortunately I think the Biden Admin seems to want to avoid it.

However, this doesn't mean that businesses shouldn't have the right to demand something like it. Especially cruise ships and airlines but also theaters, stadiums, restaurants etc. They have every right to protect their customers and staff. The bans being put into place by Florida and Texas should not stand.

[Stallion]

20. Correct Vaccination Cards Are Sufficient-Vaccination Passports will not be popular

[Hugin]

21. It also implies a government responsibility to provide the means to comply with the mandate.

Well, in a free country such as the US, it does.

There is my apprehension. It's similar to voting. If the government is going to mandate something. It needs to provide, free of obligation, a method of satisfying the mandate for it's citizens without relying on the private sector alone to provide a way to comply. That opens itself up to corruption, discrimination, and grift. Which is why people like DeMegele was for it when he thought he was going to control the vaccinations and now is against it since the Federal government is asserting itself.

[Still Sensible]

18. I said perhaps because I fear such a scheme will devolve into a

clusterfuck that will suck all the media oxygen out of our progress. With over 100 million vaccinated in the US already, we would be basing such a passport on the somewhat easy-to-counterfeit cards we have been issued. Such fraud could be somewhat addressed if a shitpot full of money would be spent to confirm vaccination dates, lot numbers and individuals with all the diverse entities on the ground that have been conducting the shots. I would imagine that just the labor cost to pull that off would be unbelievable. Combine that with the morass of debate it would take to just agree on the rules and design the standardizations, and the oversight body or bodies to set up and staff, plus defining enforcement mechanisms across many jurisdictions, etc.

Do I think vaccination passports would be a good idea? Up front, probably, but as an afterthought (with the majority of US Covid vaccinations done before any of these mechanisms can possibly be in place) it is a probable political quagmire that would be incredibly distracting and counter-productive to our progressive goals IMO. I think the subsequent clusterfuck would become the story of the next 3 1/2 years.

The repukes are probably praying we'll go down this rabbit hole!

[happybird]

25. I agree

Plus, who will enforce it? We’ve heard report after report of businesses refusing to enforce mask mandates. Why would this be any different?

And, I agree with Vinca’s post, up higher in the comments. We’ll likely need boosters, and the timing on those may vary, depending on which vaccine you received... Take in to account how easy they are to forge and passports feel like a big waste of time.

[rzemanfl]

26. Not Ron DeSatan, which is why I am in favor of them.

Last edited Tue Apr 6, 2021, 07:39 PM - Edit history (1)

The CDC cards should be the passports, with draconian penalties attached to counterfeiting and misuse, including ejection from events and stranding of travelers. Whatever clusterfuck comes of this could never equal the "Real ID" fiasco. Fifteen or sixteen years later, I STILL do not have a gold star on my drivers license. I was born in this country almost 74 years ago and now have to prove it to the DMV by October.

[Under The Radar]

22. The first suggestion of vaccination proof that I know of was by Rand Paul

...during a senate hearing when he was trying to humiliate Dr Fauci. When he was asking why mask had to be worn by those who have received the vaccine and couldn’t they just show proof of vaccination and travel freely without mask. How has this turned into a political football?

[Runningdawg]

23. I'm sure they are already on the black market.

[Sympthsical]

24. A government pass to do regular social things? Nope!

We're not China, nor should be be moving anywhere near that direction. It bothers me how gleefully authoritarian our side gets sometimes.

And it bothers me most how some people really seem to only support them to "own the Right," as if that's ever a good idea to do anything.

The fact of the matter is that most of the country will get vaccinated. We'll reach a herd immunity. It seems like Covid is going to be around for awhile, probably necessitating once a year shots like with the flu. I plan on keeping my mask regimen. It's grown comfortable, and now I'm just used to it. Plus I haven't had a single cold all year. I dig it. I have no problem adopting that social practice from Asia.

But social passports - I don't care what the reason - should be a big red flag to anyone who doesn't want encroaching authoritarianism. Remember the Patriot Act? It was just this special thing we needed because 9/11 was a special circumstance. We'll repeal it once it's unnecessary! Yeah, how'd that work for everyone? It all went away and was never heard from again, yeah?

Oh, wait . . .

Once you become ok with the government approving and tracking everyday activities, it becomes easier to wield approval of other things you may not have thought of and may not agree with. Slippery slope, frog in the boiling pot, etc.

[LanternWaste]

41. Ahhh... the continuum fallacy. Again.

I see you're a fan of it.

[Sympthsical]

46. I'm against authoritarianism in general

Liberals should be. You want Republicans with these powers? I don't.

[msfiddlestix]

27. seems like the reason should be obvious.

[LeftInTX]

28. I had to show my immunization card to enter the Texas Capitol--or take a Covid test

My friend left hers at home and had to take a test

The immunization record above is already used for travel

[VarryOn]

29. If private entities, like a movie theater, sports arena, church...

Walmart, a resturant, or any other private conern wants to see them, I have no problem with it. And if I dont have one, too bad. I dont get to go to that movie, service, ball game, or get to shop or have dinner there.

I am not for gov't authorities stopping people on the sidewalk asking to see their passport just for them being out and about. If that's where we're headed, they ought to just give everyone vaccinated a badge or some other symbol to wear on their clothing. (Definitely a bad idea!).

[doc03]

30. No it reminds me of Nazi Germany or USSR.

"Your papers" I had an uncle in Romania he said he had to apply for papers in advance to travel out of his city. He said his mail was always opened and anything of value was stolen and blacked out things in the letters they didn't like.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

31. Ignorant trump supporters who are too stupid to take a vaccine need to be shunned

These narrow minded ignorant persons should be allowed to die off and should not be allowed at events where intelligent persons are allowed to attend

[roamer65]

32. Yes. Anti-vaxxers should be segregated.

They are a public health menace. If they persist with it, then more drastic measures should be taken against them.

This ISN’T a political issue. It’s a public health one.

[greenjar_01]

33. They're a dumb idea, a perfect wedge, and we're going to lose on this

Honestly. I gotta show my papers to go to the movies? People hate this shit. Basta!

[NH Ethylene]

34. You're right. We will be crucified over this if Dems support or promote. Think Midterms.

Luckily Biden is not going to make a government push for it.

[grantcart]

35. Just show your phone app as you going inside.

They are being used with great results in Asia where, for example, a country like Thailand has only 100 Covid deaths with a population of 70 million

They have been in common use for a year showing you have a negative covid test. Once you tested positive your phone would flash red, then you would go free to a govt quarantine area where you couldn't spread the disease and would receive care if symptomatic.

It is also critically important for tracing. For months Thailand was so successful in bringing down the curve that they had 0 local transmissions for months. Then a DJ was positive and they were able to trace 200 people he was in contact with instantly. Their 'passport' turned red, they were contacted and tested within 24 hours. A few had to be quarantined but it stopped the spread and saved thousands of lives.

[LanternWaste]

42. Yeah... and social upheaval over stores denying service to those without shoes or shirts.

Honestly, your lack of evidence to support any allegation you make is outstandingly consistent.

[rockfordfile]

36. I think it's a good idea, but only for a short time. Businesses are correct

Businesses are correct in wanting to protect workers and customers.

[Raftergirl]

37. I've already

downloaded my NYS Vaccine app. Once I’m two weeks post second shot I can upload my vax info from NYS DOH.


Already have plans for a Yankee game and Met game and hopefully US Open.

I’m very excited to have an passport I can keep in my phone’s wallet.

You can upload CV test results to it also.

[Ace Rothstein]

39. Probably but I don't think they'll be used on a wide scale in the US.

[Mr.Bill]

43. Yes, I am for them.

I am also for some serious laws about forging them or any other king of misrepresentation of being vaccinated.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

44. Yes, and the USA did it before.

The U.S. Has Had 'Vaccine Passports' Before—And They Worked
https://time.com/5952532/vaccine-passport-history/
----------
The year was 1885. U.S. border officials in the late 19th century did not expect travelers to carry the identification documents that international transit requires today—but they did often require passengers to provide evidence that they had been vaccinated from smallpox. Whether at ports of entry including New York’s Ellis Island and San Francisco’s Angel Island, or along the U.S. border with Canada or Mexico, officials expected border-crossers to prove their immunity. As an El Paso newspaper put it in 1910, travelers needed to show one of three things: “A vaccination certificate, a properly scarred arm, or a pitted face” indicating that they had survived smallpox.

Today, as Americans have begun to look ahead to life after the COVID-19 pandemic, some have argued that a printed or electronic certification of a person’s vaccination status, often referred to as a vaccine passport, would allow a safe return to communal life. A few major sports arenas have already announced that they will only allow fans to attend games with proof of vaccination. Many are also speculating that proof of vaccination will be necessary for international travel this summer. Detractors claim that requiring such documentation infringes on individual liberties. Some even suggest that these passports could be the beginning of a slippery slope toward “1940s Nazi Germany” or a surveillance state. Florida Governor Ron De Santis has announced a blanket ban on all vaccine passports, calling it “unacceptable for either the government or the private sector” to require vaccination in order for citizens to be “able to participate in normal society.”

But this would not be American history’s first example of a vaccine passport—and in fact, Americans’ long campaign against smallpox shows that the benefits of such a system can extend far beyond the venues into which such a passport would grant admission...

...Employers across the country acted to make smallpox immunity a condition of employment. Factories, mines, railroads and other industrial workplaces with tight quarters were particularly forceful in demanding proof of vaccination. In 1903, Maine’s government decreed that “no person be allowed to enter the employ of, or work in, a lumber camp who can not show a good vaccination scar. Though workers sometimes resisted, corporations and governments usually ensured that they took the vaccine in the end.

Social gatherings and clubs, too, sometimes required proof of vaccination in order to attend. When smallpox swept through Kansas City in 1921, one newspaper reported that “‘Show a scar’ has been officially adopted as the passwords to lodges and other meetings.” Public school leaders across the country also required students to present a “plain scar, the records of a school or a certificate by a reputable physician” in order to enter their institutions. Among others, the superintendent of the Savannah, Ga., school system in 1897 arranged for students to be provided with “admission cards” to their school once they provided proof of vaccination...

...Unlike the smallpox vaccines of the past, COVID-19 vaccines leave no visible marks. In one sense, this is helpful as it prevents one strain of earlier vaccine hesitancy from returning. But the absence of scarring also renders vaccination invisible and uncertain, making it almost impossible for us to know who is immune and who remains vulnerable. Ensuring that a person’s vaccination status can be verifiable and visible through documentation would be an important tool for lifting quarantines and defeating COVID-19. Like the scars of the past, vaccine passports could help Americans to finally bring this pandemic to an end.
----------

[kairos12]

45. Smoking section. No smoking section.

Live with the consequences of your choices. No right to breath your nasty smoke on me, no right to infect my air with your COVID Fumes.

[NurseJackie]

48. Great comparison.

[misanthrope]

58. A lot of restaurants and bars have realized

you can't contain smoke to sections and have done away with indoor smoking altogether. It's pretty rare to walk into a restaurant and encounter smokers these days. Some head outside to smoke then dart back in, but that won't work with possible COVID carriers. They'll just be SOL.

[Martin68]

47. When I was growing up, my family carried documents that listed the vaccines we had received with the

dates they were administered. It was a vaccine passport. Polio, Yellow fever, Typhus, and Typhoid were standard. Each country had other requirements depending on what diseases were endemic. My Dad was with the Foreign Service, and we lived in Third world countries. The US has not experienced many epidemics, the last ones being the flu in 1918 and Polio in the 50s, so we don't fully understand the importance of documenting vaccination for various threats to public health. I will present documentation of my Covid vaccinations when requested, and believe it will be required for travel abroad. I suppose each state will decide whether they want to protect the population this way or err on the side of quackery.

[NurseJackie]

49. Many families share that same story and experience.

The "don't tread on me" crowd; the faith-based crowd; the home-school crowd; the Trumpers; the snake-oil cure crowd; and the anti-vaxers like Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and others, only serve to prolong the pandemic.

[NewJeffCT]

50. my college freshman daughter has needed a "vaccine passport"

every year in order to go to school - each summer, I would need to fill out a health information record for her - from Pre-K through her freshman year of college - and then her pediatrician needed to fill out another section on health, and then attach her vaccination history as well.

[róisín_dubh]

51. I voted perhaps

I think vaccination passports can really only be enforced once the entire adult population of a country has had a chance to get it (and if they refuse, that's their problem). So, for example, in the UK, most people under 40 haven't even had the chance to get their jabs. Because I got vaccinated in the US through my work, I'll be a rare 40-something that's fully vaccinated.
But I do think they're a good idea. I was listening to In the Bubble podcast and the other issue could be the Emergency Use Authorisation. Once the FDA fully approves the vaccines, then there shouldn't be any problems.

[obamanut2012]

52. We literally have already had them for years

I've had to show them during travel.

[raptor_rider]

55. Pre existing conditions

Is the only reason why I’m getting the poke. Why force healthy people to this? “My body, my choice,” am I correct? People who wanna be protected, get protected. Just like women have the choice of Plan B, abortion 🤷🏼‍♀️ J/S

[RobinA]

59. In Part I Have

purely selfish reasons. I want to travel abroad and I don't want to have to wait years 'til every Trumper who doesn't believe in COVID gets sick and develops immunity.

[NurseJackie]

60. Your reasons mirror mine.

I'd also hope that shunning them as "lepers" or social pariahs, would 1) help to keep others safe and 2) motivate them to do something about it and get the GD vaccine!

[myccrider]

61. I can see a huge business in counterfeit documents popping up,

with all the attendant drama/potential violence involving whoever is trying to pass the fake passports and the decent people trying to enforce the use of passports. It might be more trouble than it’s worth. I really don’t know.