Take it from this Tacoma Democrat: Liberals should fear vaccine passports

[TexasTowelie]

Mike Moceri is an attorney practicing in Tacoma. He is a former chair of the Washington State Bar Association’s Young Lawyers Committee, an essayist and a rabble-rouser. He caucused for Bernie Sanders with Tacoma Democrats in 2016, voted for Sanders in the 2020 presidential primary and for Joe Biden in the general election.


I must be getting old, or at least I must have a long memory.

I remember seeing the 1997 blockbuster dystopian sci-fi film “Gattaca” and being terrified by the implications inherent in setting up a two-tiered society, defined by whether someone does or doesn’t undergo medical “enhancement..”

Today, I’m surprised that many of my friends either have forgotten the lesson of the film or have never seen it.

There’s a lot of discussion about “vaccine passports” — documentation of one’s COVID-19 vaccination status being used to allow people to attend sporting events, travel on airlines, attend concerts and engage in other aspects of public life.

This should be terrifying to everyone, for a lot of reasons. Most surprisingly, the issue has been politicized, with Republicans generally skeptical of the idea and Democrats in support.

Read more: https://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/article250561049.html
(Tacoma News Tribune)

Mr. Moceri makes some valid points in his arguments ranging from religious exemptions to show your paper laws to whether private corporations will be collecting personal health data and its possible abuse.

[Hugin]

1. Well, actually it was genetic enhancement prior to birth...

Not by voluntarily choosing to get a free vaccination.

The protagonist voluntarily chose medical enhancement to skirt the genetic caste system.

But, never mind.

Whatever.

[cinematicdiversions]

2. One is real life and one is a movie that has nothing to do with vaccines? NT

[Sympthsical]

3. I've seen people on this site want vaccine passports to go to the grocery store

I've felt very "the cheese stands alone" on this one. It's horrifying authoritarianism, seemingly promoted so we can, "own the Right." The fuh?

Naomi Wolf had a long thread, meditating on how Germany created a two-tier society, and how that could lead to what it led to. I don't think we're there. But setting up two-tier societies has never led to anything good in any part of Western History.

But hey, Republicans suck, let's get them with this!

What. The. Ever Loving. Fuck. That's the great rationale for a system that goes very wrong, very fast, in every instance of history we've mustered?

There are some - many I'd say - who think they're much smarter by virtue of being on the Left of American politics.

I point to the vaccine passport idea and reply, "Touche'."

You have to be grade A stupid to think this is the society you want to craft. And if you do want to craft that society, you haven't read any history books, and you'll be dangerous to me and mine in the future.

I don't like play-acting authoritarians. Not even on the Internet.

[Mad_Machine76]

9. I don't think you should need vaccine passports to go everywhere

But requiring them for travel, especially via cruise ships, seem prudent.

[Blues Heron]

15. Just get the vaccine and you'll be fine

If you don't you're a danger to me and mine - see how that works?

[Sympthsical]

20. I'm mid-vaccine

Second shot at the end of the month. My entire family is vaccinated (because they all weirdly work in health care). So I'm very, very pro-vaccine.

But, we'll eventually hit herd immunity. We've dealt with anti-vaxxers for ages.

This re-ordering of everyday society sounds more political than scientific. The science is being used as a veneer to fight a battle.

I'm not super interested, and I'll oppose it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. By now, if Naomi Wolf is against something, it probably means it's a good thing

She is now seriously unhinged.

But in actual arguments, the moment when "passports" would serve a purpose for domestic businesses is starting now, but won't last. When some people have strong defences against the virus, and are unlikely to pass it on, then businesses saying "you can dine, drink and dance indoors with others with similar immunity" makes commercial sense, allows those people to enjoy themselves, without risking more spread that endangers others. Once the country does actually get to herd immunity, then the general risk has gone down.

It's not about "society"; it's about a situation that lasts a few months. Many people have to show ID to get into bars already; it doesn't last forever, but it's longer than a few months. Yes, you can say all indoor crowds must be banned until herd immunity is reached, but it doesn't look like that would be accepted.

[Sympthsical]

21. Is she?

Genuinely asking, because I haven't kept up with her in a very long time. I saw a Twitter thread she posted about vaccine passports and agreed with almost all of it. Wonder what happened to her. She was Al Gore's person for a time.

The CDC believes we'll reach herd immunity by June. That's a month and a half away. So the whole passport thing would be moot by that point. As if we could even implement that sort of thing in seven weeks.

I think I do agree with you. For now, and especially in places like Michigan where cases are spiking, I'm fine with bars and things saying, "Show us your vax card to get in."

That's totally fine.

But a passport system? That's long term, and I'm very much opposed to it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. For Wolf, see a couple of DU threads:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215166468

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215224228

Plus, from 2014: https://www.vox.com/2014/10/5/6909837/naomi-wolf-isis-ebola-scotland-conspiracy-theories

[Sympthsical]

26. Whaaaaaaaaaaat

Ok. I was not aware of . . . that.

I'm going to re-read her passport thread with that in mind, and rethink the context.

I still have my ideas against it for reasons. But her reasons are seemingly not mine.

Good looking out, though. Thanks.

[Treefrog]

32. I've seen some amazingly authoritarian posts here.

Never mind how easy it would be to forge those. While I was waiting for my jab the other day, I sat at a table where there was a whole pad of vaccine cards. Anyone could have taken the entire pad of them.

[womanofthehills]

39. You can just print them out off the internet

[Treefrog]

42. Yeah, I've heard that too. But I was amazed that anyone could have picked up that whole pile of them

as I waited by the unattended table.

[hlthe2b]

4. This whole thing is so idiotic. Anyone who has traveled to much of the developing world knows

that vaccine "passports" have been around longer than many or most of us. To prove yellow fever vaccine is the most prominent example. The vaccine was first required by some countries as early as the late 1930s and these certificates of vaccination "yellow cards" came soon after. Here is the original CDC international travel proof of vaccination card. I have two of these with records of all types of vaccines.




No, progressives should NOT be afraid of such public health measures.

BTW, this is also proof of vaccination. The difference in this and what many want to see as a "passport" is there is no security to prevent counterfeiting with what is shown:



https://nypost.com/2021/04/09/fake-covid-vaccination-cards-running-rampant-online/
Fake COVID vaccination cards are spreading like a virus online

[Hugin]

8. A few months into COVID-19...

I was thumbing through some of my personal effects and I happened upon my shot record my Mom kept when I was very young.

A little book she bought at some stationary store. It had a happy baby and a stork on the cover. In it was recorded all of my shot series. (some came in series, similar to the Pfizer and Moderna during the current global pandemic)

I guess that would be considered today to be a vaccine passport by the scareiticians.

Of the then 'childhood diseases', the only one I caught and was scarred by was chicken pox. There was no vaccine for it at the time.

Fortunately, small pox and polio were no longer 'childhood diseases' due to vaccination requirements and conscientious public health efforts of people such as dear old Mom.

It was one of the best gifts she ever gave me.

[hatrack]

14. Thank you!

That's where I have my COVID card stashed - in the same plastic sleeve as my yellow fever card, so . .. . yeah.

[Treefrog]

33. Those cards were just sitting on a table when I went for my Pfizer shot the other day.

Anyone could have taken them.

[FSogol]

36. Exactly. I have the yellow fever vaccine card. It allows me to visit South American.

It is hysteria to think recording vaccination info will lead to a Hollywood Sci Fi Dystopia.

File under: Oh the drama!

[Arazi]

5. Mr. Moceri has clearly never traveled internationally where vaccine cards are a requirement

Beyond that, while I'm not into cruising, exactly what other suggestions does he have for industries like the cruise business, to ensure we don't have global catastrophic health crisis... forever?

[samnsara]

7. i have no problem with a vaccine passport

[TexasTowelie]

10. I don't have issue with a vaccine passport, but unless I win the lottery I don't expect to travel

internationally. I received the vaccination shortly my PCP sent an email indicating that it was available and I have the card safely tucked away. I bought a new printer/scanner this weekend since my prior one ready for the graveyard so I'll be scanning it and saving it digitally to at least three different places so I'll have access to it.

[Hugin]

11. Good plan.

I've got some plastic sleeves on order.

I'm kind of proud to show I'm doing my part. Selfishly getting the one item from the protocols that actually protects me. A vaccination.

[maxsolomon]

34. You should go to Canada at least once in your life.

It's within driving distance!

[redstatebluegirl]

12. The only Democrats I know who are against it

are the crazy antivaxers. I have no problem with it.

[NurseJackie]

13. "He caucused for Bernie Sanders with Tacoma Democrats"

He caucused for Bernie Sanders with Tacoma Democrats

Oh.

I remember seeing the 1997 blockbuster dystopian sci-fi film “Gattaca” and being terrified

I remember seeing the movie "Psycho" and being afraid to take a shower. I remember seeing "Jaws" and being afraid to go in the ocean.

[betsuni]

29. Ah, that explains it.

It really bugs me when people get movie plots wrong, as he did with "Gattaca." If you're going to write an article, look it up to make sure you remember it correctly. But that's what happens when you always think you're right.

[greymattermom]

16. If they can force you to take a covid test

then they have your DNA. At least the vaccine passport has information only on your vaccine status.

[yardwork]

17. I guess he's never traveled much. Many countries require proof of immunization for entrance.

[msongs]

18. most likely such documents are easily forged and faked nt

[BannonsLiver]

22. Gattaca wasn't a blockbuster

It was well reviewed but not a box office hit. In wide release it made $12.5 million in the US per IMDB.

[48656c6c6f20]

23. A rabble rouser and voted for

The Independent Senator from Vermont in the primaries. I think I'll take a hard pass.

[ecstatic]

24. There won't be one anytime soon

The vaccines are currently approved under the FDA's Emergency Use Authorization provision. Right now we're in a massive observational study phase.

[TheBlackAdder]

27. I think you need one if in closed quarters or in close proximity, like a bus, plane, train, arena.

[roamer65]

28. I have zero problems with a vaccine passport.

You don’t have the right to infect others, nor do you have the right to ride on the backs of the vaccinated to get to herd immunity.

[Zeitghost]

30. Please remember

Not everyone can be vaccinated.

[roamer65]

31. That is true.

If you can get 2 doctors to sign a waiver form for a valid medical reason, then that would be a good exemption.

[Zeitghost]

37. We care for...

We care for my 98 year old grandmother. She is in good health relatively speaking and still enjoys travel and is looking forward to a post COVID Disney vacation, likely her last. Her primary Doc (a wonderful woman who has gone above and beyond to provide care for her through all this) told her not to get vaccinated because the side effects could be harmful to her. I don't have any reason to question her medical advice and I'm not sure why anyone else would either.

[roamer65]

38. My dad is 85.

Second shot gave him a rough ride but he made it out of it fine.

He was determined to get both and I’m proud of him.

[Ms. Toad]

40. A 98 year old in good health -

whose doctor suggests the side effects could be harmful - when she is in the highest risk for death or severe consequences if she acquires the disease - I'd question the medical advice.

Nothing suggest there are consequences to the vaccine that hit the elderly especially hard, and they are (in fact) the group prioritized for vaccine precisely because the risk v. benefit analysis so strongly favors vaccination for anyone 65 or older.

[maxsolomon]

35. Those people are few and far between.

OK, sure, you have Lupus. No vax required.

But being a paranoid dipshit is not a valid rationale.

[Ms. Toad]

41. I'm in favor of vaccine passports for travel

and either vaccine passport or masking for participation in local indoor activities. At least until we get this disease under control.

[MikeMoceri]

43. Original Author Here, Questions Welcome

Hey All,

Old thread, I know, but someone I know recently had some questions about my article, and I found this thread when searching for the original article. Good discussion; and I do take criticism as constructive. However, I'd like to give a short update on a particular part of the article which now seems almost prophetic (in a bad way!):

Me in 2021: "Medical decisions are personal and should be made between a patient and their doctor. This is as true of vaccinations as it is of the decision to have an abortion. Could you imagine the Democratic outcry if Republicans attempted to force women to disclose whether they had an abortion in order to participate in public life?"

Me in 2022: "Yeah, I think I know exactly what that looks like."

Question for you all -- has anyone's opinion on this issue changed in light of the decision in Dobbs and all of the state-level legislation trying to peer into women's medical histories in order to criminalize abortion? If yes, what precisely changed your mind? If not, why not?

-Mike

[TexasTowelie]

44. Hello Mike and welcome to DU.

Since this thread aged out and I was the only member notified that the thread was updated I created a separate thread so that other members are aware that you are available for questions and comments.

You may receive responses on this thread, but I also suggest that you introduce yourself and monitor this thread for replies:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217128598

I don't think that I've ever done this in my 11 years at DU, but hopefully you will receive some feedback.

[marble falls]

45. My opinion doesn't count but I am prochoice. This is an issue between a woman and her Doctor.

[llashram]

46. it is the truth

that the CT vendors and a traitor as ex-POTUS keep his crowd sceptical and unvaccinated while the Covid disease is rising among our populace in America again. It was the trumper unvaccinated that has kept this disease among us. All should be wary of those not vaccinated. I do not understand the purpose of this post based on some movie???