Derek Chauvin trial - Jaw drop moment with the current expert for the defense.

[Ms. Toad]

Last edited Tue Apr 13, 2021, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Jaw drop moment with the current expert for the defense.

Floyd was non-compliant because when he was prone, handcuffed behind his back, with three men on his back, Floyd did not have his hands resting comfortably at the small of his back.

Prosecutor pushed him on it - pointed out that the reason he was moving about was trying to breathe. Expert recognized, too late to fix it, that he had just implied that trying to breathe was being non-compliant.

On the whole, this expert is not doing the defense any favors - he's had to back off on almost everythng he said on direct.

Here's a tweet with a link to the video clip:

Link to tweet

Chauvin defense use-of-force expert Barry Brodd says a "perfectly compliant" suspect would have been "resting comfortably" on pavement during an arrest.

Steve Schleicher, prosecutor: "So attempting to breathe while restrained is being slightly non-compliant?"

Brodd: "No."

[lamp_shade]

1. The prosecutor has made a total fool out of this witness. He crucified him.

Riveting cross-exam.

[DENVERPOPS]

36. Expert witnesses for the defense

are commonly overpriced whores..............

[soldierant]

72. If they had to show this one's history,

he would be toast before he even opened his mouth.

But in the circumstances, they should hardly need to. He did such a good job of undermining himself.

[COL Mustard]

54. I Love Your Tagline!!!

[The Magistrate]

2. I Expect He Does Think Trying To Breathe Is Resistance, Ma'am

After all, the officer meant to kill him, and so anything but dying promptly with no fuss must be resisting the officer....

[Ms. Toad]

9. Whatever his personal belief -

He stopped himself from saying it out loud, once he recognized the natural conclusion of everything he had said.

[The Magistrate]

12. Which Means, Ma'am

That he knows full well what he is talking is bean-breeze....

[TexasTowelie]

10. Astute analysis

and resistance is futile.

[jaxexpat]

42. This Mr. Floyd was undeniably a very noncompliant character.

Even when he had no pulse and had given up trying to breath he remained a non-compliant person, a threatening person, a person to inspire fear, a person hell-bent on derailing a compliant society.

Logical conclusion # 1. The vast experience and extensive training of law enforcement personnel all across this nation has but one purpose it seems. It is to ensure that every last citizen is a model of compliance, killing them by assassination, as required.

Logical conclusion # 2. Papers........please!!!

Logical conclusion # 3. If you're not sadistic enough, not blinded by hate enough, not sufficiently supportive of these efforts to KEEP THE PEACE. You, too, are noncompliant.

[yardwork]

47. Thank you for pointing that out, Sir.

It's important for us all to face facts. You just laid them out very succinctly. The goal was to kill Mr. Floyd, and in resisting, he was non-compliant.

[MyOwnPeace]

3. It is going to take a "Mastermind"

to be able to provide ANY credible defense in this case. Obviously, they struck out in their first-at-bat.

[True Dough]

15. And yet

Out of 12 jurors, there's almost certainly going to be at least one MAGAt in the mix. We could wind up with a hung jury on what is really an open-and-shut case.

[wnylib]

31. Then try the bastard again.

[yardwork]

48. Yes.

[True Dough]

4. Agreed

It was a long shot by the defense, who tried to find a use of force expert who was sympathetic to the actions of Chauvin et al.

But his distorted view of reality didn't hold up when he was really pressed on his assertions.

[Blue Owl]

5. File under the "No Shit Sherlock" category

[live love laugh]

50. +1

[berni_mccoy]

6. The Defense has been terrible from the start. This doesn't surprise me.

The attorney is going to get little-to-nothing for this case and is doing it for notoriety. All attorneys care about winning, and I'm sure the defense lawyer does, but I get the impression his heart isn't in this case.

[Progressive Jones]

19. Book and movie deal. nt

[Caliman73]

35. Also, he has absolutely nothing to work with.

Usually a defense attorney can find technicalities to work with, but this was straight up, in your face, murder. There is nothing by which to defend Chauvin.

[yardwork]

49. Only because of the witnesses' recordings.

If this hadn't been recorded on cell phones, there wouldn't be a case.

[Treefrog]

51. No shit. Scary.

[yardwork]

52. Think about all the other people murdered by cops without witnesses.

[Treefrog]

55. I know, I've thought about it a lot.

Frightening. And criminal.

[DENVERPOPS]

37. The defense's biggest problem

is that there is nothing about the cop's behavior that is able to be defended..........

I wish that this exact trial was being carried out across our nation, hundreds of times over..........

[wiggs]

7. Agree. Worse than that, another one of the officers suggests he's not breathing and suggests that

Floyd be turned on his side. The defendant Chauvin declined.

In my humble amateur opinion, this defense witness has been a disaster for the defense under pointed, relentless, fair cross. Seems like a monumental disaster.

[Arazi]

8. That was Lane - a week out of the police academy

His request- feeble as it was - may save him from prison

[Ms. Toad]

13. Agreed.

I was just surprised by the expert starting to answer, realizing what the implication of saying breathing was resistance, and then correcting himself by acknowledging that breathing was not resistance.

That, and the state's shocked jaw-drop response when the witness suggested Floyd should have had his hands resting comfortably in the small of his back.

[ShazzieB]

27. Yes.

That "expert" walked right into the trap the prosecutor had laid for him, and when he realized it, he was like, "OH SHIT" (internally). You could see his discomfiture written all over his face!)

[Jim__]

11. Phenomenol cross!

Is struggling to breathe non-compliance?

Could Be.

No further questions.

The witness is an asshole!

[msfiddlestix]

14. I'm squirming with some angst on the redirect

the judge overrules almost every objection to leading questions, and those beyond the scope. I guess that's standard thing. I don't know.

arrggh

[Ms. Toad]

18. I agree that some of the rulings seem a bit off.

But leading is a bit subjective, and as long as it not excessive courts often let it go to avoid intrrupting the flow too much for relatively harmless formalities.

I wasn't paying close enough to the scope of direct to know if it exceeded the scope.

[Ms. Toad]

16. And the witness just sabotaged defense counsel on redirect.

Chauvin's counsel picked two images that clearly show Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck - expecting his witness to agree (since he had just acknowledged it on cross). His goal was to demonstrate that snippets can be misleading.

But the witness denied that the knee was on the neck - and Chauvin's counsel didn't know how to respond. He just let the videos go and lamely commented, "and that's the problem with snippets. They can be misleading."

[msfiddlestix]

17. I feel a lot better with the recross examination

Prosecutor made him walk the most important points back.

[halfulglas]

20. Even on direct, I was thinking - if this is standard what they are taught

we should retrain from the beginning. The whatever the suspect does, you have to meet with greater force means you can beat up almost anyone, as long as what they were doing was deemed threatening action. The verbal jujitsu is teaching the "suspect" to incriminate himself even if he's innocent. Some of the things he is a "certified instructor maybe shouldn't be taught.

[ShazzieB]

33. I think you are absolutely right.

Especially this: "The whatever the suspect does, you have to meet with greater force means you can beat up almost anyone, as long as what they were doing was deemed threatening action."

This is indeed how they appear to operate. If that's the training they're given, it would explain a lot.

The scariest part of this is that whether an action is "deemed threatening" can be a very subjective judgment. From what I've observed, a lot of cops (like Chauvin) seem to "deem" ANY action made by a poc as "threatening," almost by default. That is a very serious problem that badly needs to be addressed.

[maxrandb]

21. Barry Brodd just oozes Nazi, doesn't he?

[Ms. Toad]

22. Pretty much. n/t

[msfiddlestix]

28. Absolutely. I'm now a little curious about his history

I believe I heard he spoke on behalf of another cop defendant in a previous case, but I don't recall which case it was.

But none the less, the first hit I had with this "expert" witness was that he personally is an American version of flaming Nazi.

I can almost see him as one of the Oath Keeper Insurrectionists on January 6th. Dollars to donuts he's a sympathizer.

[NullTuples]

71. He's an ex-cop who hires himself out to cop-defending lawyers

This was his other recent high profile job as "expert for hire" (twitter thread):

Link to tweet

[Solomon]

53. I was about to ask, where the fuck is his hood?

[NoSheep]

69. That's what I see. Total Nazi.

[sop]

23. Barry Brodd is a retired cop with 29+ years experience, a State of California certified defensive

tactics instructor for 30+ years, and a California POST certified Defensive Tactics Instructor Trainer. No wonder there are so many cops on the street brutalizing people, then claiming it's how they were trained.

[Ms. Toad]

24. It is interesting that he approached the state

before he approached the defense.

[ecstatic]

58. Hmm... He wanted to sink the case, I guess. nt

[msfiddlestix]

30. Right? I live in California and have lived through this shit in our State.

And what was that bit about Rodney King he referenced? I missed the premise or question asked of him about that 'event".

[BlueSpot]

43. 30+ years in CA?

It seems entirely possible that he could have trained the police that arrested Rodney King. That was 30 years ago.

[hatrack]

64. I didn't actually kill anyone, I was just following training . . .

And besides, I feared for my life!

[Midnightwalk]

25. I just saw that part and my jaw dropped

Earlier he said that Floyd trying to breathe was like tesisting arrest and the lawyer asked “writhing on the ground trying to breathe the same as resisting.”?

The defense attorney last week in cross asked something like couldn’t be the death spasm be misinterpreted as resistance.

And this guy trains officers. This police trainer’s testimony is a a demonstration of what is wrong with police training. I wonder if the defense will basically be maybe it’s messed up but that’s how he was trained. Screw that. It isn’t reasonable.

Back to listening...

[jaxexpat]

45. LEO's are trained to be the baddest guys on the street.

No matter which street. It's a logical thing really. It represents the concept that obeyance to legal statutes must prevail over anarchy in an orderly society wherein all are given equal justice before the law.

See the weak point in that? The naked truth of it? The, yet pulsating, nerve exposed in the autopsy of our essentially unlawful human nature? Okay, I'll provide a hint. It starts with I and ends with D and has 2 letters. Freud's understanding and appreciation of the mind's "wild side", individual as well as collective, was IMHO more far reaching than all the refinements wrought by the science of psychology since his exile by the NAZI's proved his point.

Cops are trained to put a damper on a streak of rebelliousness that runs true through every stage of any individual's personal evolution. It's why they seem so bent on pinning everyone down at one level or another. Demanding answers for questions they've no right to ask and throwing suspicion on those taken aback at their asking.

It may not end well until regulations just back the hell out of people's lives and let us respond to the purposeful, frenzied competition for decreasing resources on an overpopulated, yet finite, planet the way god intended. It's "gimme liberty or death, but gimme something" talk again already for goodness sakes.

[samsingh]

26. fuck these murderous assholes

[mcar]

29. Thanks for this update

I didn't get to see the whole cross but what I saw was devastating. I cannot imagine a juror having reasonable doubt after this display, but we know that's what the defense is going for.

[Deminpenn]

32. Neither Brodd or the other retired MN cop who arrested

Floyd in 2019 did the defense any favors. Listening to them both really drove home the point of why some cops act the way they do.

OTOH, the body cam video from the park police cop showed a cop who knew how to engage with people and get them to comply without being threatening.

[Ms. Toad]

34. I missed the earlier bits -

I didn't get a chance to listen until Brodd's testimony.

[Deminpenn]

38. The arresting cop just came off as fully

Last edited Wed Apr 14, 2021, 05:03 AM - Edit history (1)

bought into his role as authoritarian enforcer. He had his gun out from almost the beginning of the encounter, then escalated quickly to yelling and cussing at Floyd. I guess he gets credits for not shooting anyone, but he lost his temper way too fast.

[Ms. Toad]

39. Hmm . . . so in addition to the generally realistic fear that most

black males have that their lives may be at risk, Floyd had a reasonable basis for a very specific fear based on the earlier encounter.

[Deminpenn]

60. It's culturally ingrained fear

During the trial, one early witness who took video, stopped, then started again said, iirc, that he stopped his video because he didn't want any trouble or anything like that. I inferred that this person didn't want to give the police any reason to have an interaction with him.

[Sunsky]

61. I agree

This is something left unexplored by the prosecution team. Black people are traumatized and the mere presence of the police triggers us and produces fear and anxiety (extreme anxiety even panic in some). George Floyd was afraid of the police. We now see that his fear was justified.
I have never taken street drugs or abuse any form of drugs but I have been accused of "being on something" in a traffic stop before because of my anxiety-ridden reaction. I was lucky to be able to explain my reaction. George Floyd tried numerous times to explain his reaction but he was neglected because of preconceived notions. Therefore, I believe the accusation of taking drugs is made to us even when we are not on drugs. It's a mere coincidence that Floyd was on drugs. The defense is riddled with the racial bias that is rampant in law enforcement. I don't believe this will be lost on some of the jurors.
My brother is a LEO and he has told us how tight it can be at the back of a standard police car. I believe it is inhumane. He has also told us about how they can make alternate arrangements for bigger people.

[Deminpenn]

68. You make excellent points

I believe it was brought up during the trial that Chauvin could have called for a police wagon or bigger vehicle. I think the testimony of the cop who arrested Floyd in 2019 and the use-of-force expert exactly reflect how patrol officers really behave on the street regardless of how much formal training they have.

[Ms. Toad]

66. My suggestion was that Floyd had that +

a specific fear arising out of the earlier incident

[sop]

67. Judging by his accent and demeanor, Officer Chang, the Park Police officer, was probably brought

up with different cultural values, not yet steeped in traditional American racism. Unlike the other four officers, Chang treated the two passengers with professionalism and restraint, he didn't immediately start barking out orders, using the f-bomb at every opportunity, didn't pull out his weapon or taser, handcuff, arrest or rough up anyone.

No public official should approach people with aggression and profanity, screaming threats and brandishing weapons. No one would tolerate this behavior from some guy at the DMV, they would be fired immediately. Yet cops do it with impunity, particularly when dealing with minorities.

[Aussie105]

40. So 'Trying to Breathe while Black'

is now added to the list of why police can be brutal and an excuse for using deadly force?

That's a long list . . . and getting longer by the day.

At the top of the list . . . panicking when a policeman approaches you with weapon in hand.
(Apparently some can't tell the difference between their taser and their hand gun.)

Hell, if I was in that situation, I wouldn't be 'resting comfortably'. No one would.

A lot of police behavior approaching someone of color is aimed at inducing a panic reaction, that can then be conveniently said to be 'non compliance' and be followed by more aggressive police behavior.
In this case, the use of deadly physical force.

In other cases, shooting someone in the back when they run away.
In theory, a police officer should only discharge his/her firearm if they are under threat themselves.
In practice, running away seems as good excuse as any. Or hearing a noise on the other side of a closed door.

It's deliberate, its part of their training. White supremacists in uniform.

[getagrip_already]

41. they make a compliant position sound a lot like

a dead position. "He wasn't told he could breathe." {sarcasm}

[marble falls]

44. Defense expert: "I've been designated as someone to take one for the team, be gentle ... "

... he took back every claim. That had to an expensive bit of comedy relief.

[JohnnyRingo]

46. Good thing the cop didn't do this to someone's pet dog.

The public on both sides of the political spectrum would be outraged and the cop would be promptly shitcanned.

[Solomon]

56. Indeed! I've made this observation for some time. Dogs are definitely treated better than black

people. They have a lot more rights.

[BobTheSubgenius]

57. It sounds like they might have gone over this testimony before bringing it to open court.

Idiots. I hope this has SUNK Chauvin's defence.

[Ms. Toad]

59. Not likely.

The prosecutions, as a general rule, doesn't have advance access to the defense witnesses - at least not to prepare testimony.

[Buckeyeblue]

62. I'm surprised the defense called witnesses

I thought they might rest and base their closing arguments on needing to give deference to law enforcement. Put the blame back on George Floyd, etc.

Hopefully being able to make the defense witnesses say things that favor the prosecution will make this a somewhat quick jury deliberation.

[DFW]

63. The defense can't cross-examine a video

Their only option is: “To Swerve and Deflect.”

[panfluteman]

65. OMG! This Is WAY Beyond Ridiculous!

In any other country, Derek Chauvin would have been behind bars a long time ago. But just watch - Chauvin will probably wind up being acquitted!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

70. He's hoping the jury is dumb enough to buy that.

I don't think Barry Brodd would be too comfortable in that position.