So many questions about Adam Toledo

[Rustyeye77]

1. He appeared to have a gun before he turned around...why?

2. Who gave him the gun?

3. Why did the cop shoot so quick when his hands were up WITHOUT A GUN ?

4. Did the cop see the gun before the kid got rid of it?

5. WT f**k is a 13 year old out at 1-2 in the morning?



My opinion...the cop was wrong and should be charged....the kid should have been in bed...and why does a mother let her 13 yo out at that time of nite.

Just terrible.

[madaboutharry]

1. From what is known so far, I don't think the officer should be charged.

Toledo threw that gun behind the fence less than one second before the officer fired his gun.

This is a very complicated case.

[Rustyeye77]

2. I'm a little or a lot pissed at the mother.

[madaboutharry]

4. 13 year old boy out with a 21 year old at 2:30 am with a gun.

And the reason the police were chasing them was because of shots fired at a vehicle.

It is just a terrible story all around.

[CrackityJones75]

26. So having a gun on you is reason to be killed?

I don’t agree with that. He put his hands up in the air. No gun. Then dead. What is the point in raising your hands if they just going to shoot anyway?

He complied. He was shot. End of story.

[wnylib]

50. But that's the point, isn't it?

Toledo did toss the gun. He did put up his hands. And the cop did fire immediately after Toledo tossed the gun. Why did the cop shoot him after he complied?

[uponit7771]

3. The kid complied with the officer and still was killed, the rest of it is blaming the victim.

[madaboutharry]

5. It is not that simple.

It is a terrible thing that this shooting occurred. However, I believe the officer had no way of knowing that the boy tossed the gun in the second before.

[StarfishSaver]

7. If he didn't know he had tossed the gun, why did he order him to put up his hands?

What was the point of telling him to put up his hands if he was going to shoot him anyway?

A cop tells someone to put up his hands because doing so makes the person less of a threat. It allows the cop to see their hands and even if they have a weapon they can't shoot it at anyone if their arms are in the air. It is clear that putting one's hands in the air is an act of compliance, of surrender.

So why order him to put his hands in the air and then immediately shoot him?

[MoonlitKnight]

12. This

Even if he had a gun he was surrendering and not threatening enough to justify murdering him.

[Arazi]

34. Yup. Agreed 100% 🎯

[uponit7771]

10. Yep, it is ... he complied and still got shot. The LEO should've kept his distance if he didn't know

... he was safe to get close.

You don't get close to someone who is suspected as having a weapon and willing to use it.

[CrackityJones75]

27. It IS that simple.

He was not a threat when he was shot. It is actually in fact that simple. He was unarmed. I am tired if giving cops this sort of leeway. They do not deserve it.

[StarfishSaver]

6. Why he was out is irrelevant to this issue. It suggests that he deserved to be killed because he

wasn't at home in bed.

These are the important questions:

Why did the cop order him to put up his hands?
Why did he shoot him immediately after he complied with his order to put up his hands?

[Rustyeye77]

8. Irrelevant ??

I agree with your questions.

I have a problem with the mother. Sorry.

[Sympthsical]

9. No, it suggests potential dangerous criminal activity

2AM, someone right there is firing a weapon at a vehicle.

What do you expect law enforcement to think in that scenario?

We agree there's a round hole. We're quibbling on the shape of the peg. But it's interesting watching people try to pound it.

We get to sit back and have a good long think on a situation that unfolded in about five seconds. Knowing what I know so far, and having seen the video, I honestly don't know.

People do realize the cop wasn't staring at the freeze frame a tenth of a second long before making his choice, right? We see a snapshot. We were not in the moment. I want more information.

But if charcoal lighter is all people have, that's what's going to get poured. So, I guess flick that match.

[StarfishSaver]

14. "Potential dangerous criminal activity" is not a capital offense deserving summary execution in the

street.

At the time the cop engaged with him, Adam was not "engaged in potential dangerous activity." He was running away. Police are not allowed to shoot people who are running away from them. He stopped when the cop ordered him to. He put his hands in the air when the cop told him to. At that point, it didn't matter whether he had "engaged in potential dangerous activity" previously. All that matters is what he was doing in that moment and in that moment, he was complying with police orders and surrendered by putting his hands up.

So, yes, it IS irrelevant to this discussion that he was out at 2 am. And the insistence on injecting that into the discussion about whether a police officer was justified in shooting him dead when he was surrendering with his hands in the air is an all-too-common but no less disgusting "blame the victim" exercise that excuses the inexcusable behavior of police officers.

[Bettie]

35. What activity he was engaged in

could have been dealt with at the station, had the child been allowed to live long enough to be asked.

Why he was out there? Well, we'll never really know that either, since he's dead.

Thanks for calling this out for the victim blaming it is, SS. I often disagree with you, but on this we're almost always on the same page.

[StarfishSaver]

36. ...

[Sympthsical]

41. 2 Am, shooting at things, innocent

Rational people do not see the situation as you do.

I'm not sure how I see it. I really don't.

But I don't have the absolute certainty of Christ here that you seem to.

Most dangerous neighborhood in Chicago, firearms, shooting, 2 Am, "But he was so innocent!"

You're literally asking people to defy all common sense to buy into the narrative you're trying to craft.

What regular people see is 13 year old, fell in with gang, has a gun, was shooting at a vehicle, cops responded, threw the gun right before he got shot.

And you are trying to architect this clear cut case of, "Cops just wanted to murder!"

Seriously? Seriously. Say that scenario you're constructing out loud. Does anyone in your life catch that one at all?

[Bettie]

43. So, you think that he deserved to die?

I've heard comments like yours about poor neighborhoods like that.

It's common. Was he a punk? Maybe.

He had his hands up. They were empty. The cop shot him to death.

You can say "It was 100% his fault, because he was a punk!" or you can say "No humans involved" or even get into the right wing "Vermin, they are all vermin!"

But, the fact is, this kid was 13 years old and my best guess it that it was a hard 13 years. Not everyone has the advantages of a middle class family and a safe neighborhood.

In the end, cops find some lives more valuable than others.

The very least I can do is give benefit of the doubt to the victim, since most everyone else gives it solely to the cops.

[Arazi]

48. Nah, WHITE people see it the way you're framing it

Anyone paying even a bit of attention to Black Lives Matter sees systemic racism trapping a black/brown family into a miserable life of poverty and a teen trying to figure out his place therein.

Furthermore this cop never gave this boy the benefit of a single doubt. He didnt even wait one second to see if Adam had complied. That. Is. Racism.

[uponit7771]

11. +1, notice no one wants to answer you questions. I'd like to know too

[StarfishSaver]

15. It's kind of hard when they can't fall back on the "he'd be alive if he'd just complied" excuse ...

[Rustyeye77]

19. Maybe the cop is guilty...

but that doesn’t make the mother innocent.

[StarfishSaver]

21. Totally separate issue

But nice try.

Funny how people can look at a video of a cop shooting a kid in court, but insist can't make judgments because they need more information... And then at the same time decide, based on it no knowledge about the kids family, his situation, his entire life, etc dear " Mom's guilty."

[uponit7771]

20. +1, ... and if the LEO thought his life was in danger why'd he get close? All LEOs should

... have a duty to deescalate

[joetheman]

38. Kyle Rittenhouse was out late at night with an assault weapon and his mother knew

where he was. Yes, this is whataboutism and to me it means that all the BS about why was he out and why did he have a gun and who gave him the gun is a diversion. He hadn't shot and killed anyone in full view of police. He dropped the gun and raised his hands. Compliance means nothing when black and brown children are concerned.

[gradmaster]

13. A tragedy with many unanswered questions

I agree this is a terrible tragedy, but I too would like to know why a 13 yr old is running around the streets of Little Village in the early hours of the morning. I also kind of resent being included in a group that is "complicit" in this killing, as I heard one spokesperson say. I am not complicit . Yes, I feel so sorry for the family of Adam Toledo, but I in no way feel guilty for his death. Where were his parents? Where were the other responsible adults in his life?

[Rustyeye77]

17. Yeah...

What could possibly go wrong with a 13 yo outside at 2.30 in the morning ?

Of course no one dares ask her . What she stoned or something ?

[CrackityJones75]

28. Oh here we go...

Bad mother. Must be drugs. He was up to no good so really its his fault he got shot.


The cop screwed up again. People make bad decisions and do things that we wouldn't approve if every day. We don’t need to execute all of themz

[Rustyeye77]

40. Do you know ANY mother that would her 13 yo out at 2.30 in the am ??

I’ve said the cop should be brought up on charges.

He may be guilty of crimes...I don’t know.

But the mother should answer some questions.

[Arazi]

42. He took off in the middle of the night. His mom reported him missing

Have you raised a teen?

They ALL sneak out in the middle of the night at some point to get into shenanigans. Most make it home alive. Adam Toledo should have made it home alive

Besides! IT IS NOT RELEVANT

Just stop with this shit. He was complying with the officer and he was murdered.

[CrackityJones75]

46. Oh I see. I missed that part

Oh I see. I missed that part of the story where she let him go out. Did she say that she let him go out?

[StarfishSaver]

18. "Running around the streets" is not a capital offense and does not give cops reason to kill a child

That is a sickening but all-too-common distraction. It has nothing to do with the cop shooting him.

What if everything were the same and this had happened at 6 pm instead of 2 am? Would you feel differently? If so, why? Do children deserve to be shot by police if they're out at 2 am, but not if they're out at 6?

[regnaD kciN]

24. Thank you!

Frankly, a lot of the rationalizations here have the unmistakable aroma of “she wouldn’t have been raped if she hadn’t dressed so provocatively.”

[CrackityJones75]

29. Exactly.

Frankly I am appalled at the bad mother posts here. Unreal!

[WarGamer]

16. It all happened very fast.

good questions

[sarisataka]

22. A few answers

So many questions about Adam Toledo

1. He appeared to have a gun before he turned around...why?
- because he had a gun

2. Who gave him the gun?
-unknown at this time
--*pure speculation* he may have been given the gun by the person he was with, figuring if he was caught the minor would get a lesser punishment than the adult

3. Why did the cop shoot so quick when his hands were up WITHOUT A GUN ?
-the cop had about the time of an eyeblink to decide if he should shoot or if he would take a bullet

4. Did the cop see the gun before the kid got rid of it?
-unknown, there may be evidence caught in one of the videos from the scene or the cop stating he saw the gun or that he thought there was a gin

5. WT f**k is a 13 year old out at 1-2 in the morning?
-he was either shooting at passing vehicles or hanging out with someone who was shooting

It is a tough call, I would agree that there should be charges and the evidence presented to a jury

Apparently Adam had a habit of sneaking out at night. He would be gone for days sometimes. Just a few days prior he had been reported as missing because he was gone for over a day. I will give the mother the benefit of the doubt for now.

[StarfishSaver]

30. Why did the cop order him to put his hands up?

What changed between the time he ordered him to put his hands up and the time he put his hands up a and was instantly shot? Did he somehow become more of a threat when he complied than he had been before he complied?

You. Not. Not. Order. Someone. To. Put. Up. Their. Hands. And. Then. Shoot. Them. When. They. Do. What. You. Just. Told. Them. To. Do.

[sarisataka]

32. That is why

I said I would support charges.

I know the stress of facing an armed assailant in the dark. BTDT. Hower if you have a person at gunpoint and give them an order I believe there is some obligation to see if they have complied. It takes about .2-.25 seconds for a person to see something and react. I believe the shot was fired under that time.

[SoonerPride]

23. Here is the only question you need.

Would he be alive if he were white?

All other factors you list being the same?

If you answer anything other than yes you are nuts.

White kids are out at 2am.
White kids run from cops.
White kids aren’t shot with their hands up.

The end.

[regnaD kciN]

25. This!

[StarfishSaver]

31. Thank you!

Sometimes white kids are out in the middle of the night with their mother's permission with illegal guns she got for them and they kill people and not only don't get shot, they don't even get arrested.

But let's blame this brown boy and his mother because a cop shot him in cold blood after he surrendered.

[kacekwl]

45. Cold blood ?

Really.

[kacekwl]

37. You are making a mistake taking a very complicated event

and defaulting to making it about race. There were many mistakes made by many people over days, weeks,years that resulted in Adam ending up dead in an alley. This is not a cop harassing or even escalating a situation to a person of color. This is a cop answering a call of multiple shots fired by these two people. Both suspects ran one was knocked over by the officer while continuing to chase the one with a gun. These two were firing shots randomly in the neighborhood. This could have just as easily turned into a child shot in their home when a stray bullet came through their window. What was the next move of these two ? We're they going to carjack someone, rob someone, shoot someone ? These two made mistakes. Adam's parents or guardians made mistakes. The officer made a mistake shooting Adam. The only one who had to make a split decision that night was the cop and it was the wrong one.

[StarfishSaver]

39. You are making a mistake by looking at this in a vacuum

A classic method of denying the existence of racism in particular circumstances is to view each situation completely out of context as an isolated incident and then accuse other of "defaulting to making it about race." If this were an isolated incident, your argument might make sense. But when time after time after time after time, Black and Brown people are shot by the police no matter what they do and people insist that "it's not about race," you are contributing to the problem.

One of the reasons this "very complicated event" matters is that some white people are always excusing the murder of Black people by blaming them for their deaths. More often than not, it's because they supposedly "didn't comply" with orders. This incident has screwed up that argument, though. Adam DID comply. So now the apologists are coming up with other ways to blame the victim and excuse the killer - he shouldn't have been out in the middle of the night, he was committing a crime, random shots had been fired, Adam's parents "made mistakes" and so did the cop so they all are responsible.

No, they aren't all responsible. The cop who shot the kid who had obeyed his orders to put his hands in the air but got shot anyway is responsible. He didn't simply make a "mistake." He shot and killed a child in cold blood.

A parent whose child went out in the middle of the night and an obviously frightened, even if misguided, child who put his hands up when ordered to do NOT bear the same culpability as the trained, sworn police officer with a gun and a badge who shot him.

Nothing that happened that night had anything to do with the time of night it occurred or whether Adam had permission to be out or had sneaked out of the house. Everything that happened could just as easily have occurred at any time of day or night. If this had occurred earlier in the evening, at 7:30 pm instead of 2:30 am, would you still be making the same argument?

[kacekwl]

44. Not denying the existence of racism at all. By

saying if he were white he would still be alive is the real vacuum. This is not a classic case of cop killing a person of color that happens constantly. This a a completely different story. Yes I'm blaming the "victim" and yes I'm blaming the parents and yes I'm blaming the cop. The parents, Adam and the officer didn't want Adam to wind up dead that nite but the blame can't be placed on any of them solely. The decisions made by all ended up with a 13 year old boy dead. I seriously don't see how race is a factor here.

[Treefrog]

51. How in the world would the cop know his race?

He looked white to me in the video.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

33. So many why did the officer want to see his hands?

Smdh

[Rustyeye77]

49. He may have seen the gun before it was dropped.

The cop has a lot to answer for.