Won't find me in one.

[applegrove]

Link to tweet

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

1. I would not take my hands off horse reins

Much less a steering wheel

[brush]

2. The driverless car advocates are somehow silent. What's up?

Driverless cars in theory are a good idea, but we're not there yet technologically.

Maybe if, with a passage of the infrastructure bill designated, driverless roads can be upgraded/modernized/created with enough sensors to cover every imaginable traffic occurrance....no stop, just stop.

That's gone far enough. Sensors for every unexpected possibility is impossible. Things happen, cars break down, weather intrudes, vehicles catch fire (even Teslas), but designated roads for self-driving cars is something that can happen. I can see that...ya pays your money and take your chances.

Make that "our money".

[Eko]

3. Raises hand.

Things do happen. People fall asleep at the wheel, have medical emergencies while driving, are on their cell phone. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. The question isnt will technology break down but will it do so less than humans do.

[brush]

11. That is the question. We seem to be in a pause, sort of a radio silence...

on driverless tech in the last few years. Perhaps it's because of the pandemic and the chaos of the trump years, or maybe developers have purposely quieted the hype after the fatal, pedestrian accident in Phoenix with the driver-assistant who wasn't assisting.

Whatever it is, I hope further development can be integrated wholesale into the upcoming, infrastructure road improvements that are coming.

There are adherents but the consensus still seems to be that most people are not yet fans because of the high-profile accidents involving driverless cars. And this latest Tesla one certainly isn't helping.

[Kaleva]

15. The Telsa isn't a driverless car

It requires someone to be in the driver's seat.

"Autopilot advanced safety and convenience features are designed to assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving. Autopilot introduces new features and improves existing functionality to make your Tesla safer and more capable over time.

Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane.

Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

[brush]

20. How to keep an attendant engaged while the car is on auto-pilot is huge...

Last edited Sun Apr 18, 2021, 09:55 PM - Edit history (2)

as just sitting there will get boring. How that's handled is key.

[Kaleva]

22. So your complaint with these cars has nothing to to do with this particular incident

as there was no one in the driver's seat.


The goal of these cars is to reduce the current number of highway deaths we have which is currently in the range of 35,000 to 45,000 each year. Your opinion is that this number may go up as the nation switches over to this new technology.

[brush]

23. In this incident, why wasn't someone being the attendant? Did they get bored,...

as they certainly weren't paying attention.

[Kaleva]

24. I suspect beer was involved.

their wives watched them leave and neither occupant was in the driver's seat.

[TexasBushwhacker]

28. It shouldn't go without someone in the driver's seat

Assisted driving should not allow "driverless" driving. My car will pull me back into my lane if I switch lanes without signaling first, but I can still direct it to where I want to go. It knows, by weight, if someone is in the passenger's seat. Does the Tesla have a weight sensor in the driver's seat that would prohibit "driverless" driving?

[Kaleva]

29. A person in this thread said the "Deadman switch" can be bypassed.

[Lancero]

30. Judging by the amount of people killed by distracted driving in 'regular' cars...

Seems like it's a huge issue here too, one that isn't being handled.

As long as driverless cars cause less deaths than current 'drivered' vehicles, they're a improvement and worth supporting.

[brush]

32. Do they cause fewer accidents? Is there enough data to say that?

[Lancero]

38. We will only know that once they hit the roads to generate that data.

Still though, if they shouldn't be allowed on the road because distracted drivers are a issue then why not hold current cars to that same standard?

That said, looking over the accidents that have been caused due to autonomous vehicles the bulk are due to driver error rather than the vehicle itself. The accidents and deaths that people are so quick to blame entirely on self-driving vehicles are just as liable to happen on regular cars.

[brush]

39. Well we keep hearing from advocates that driverless cars will cause...

much fewer accidents, which is why I asked the question. So the answer is no, there isn't enough data?

[Lancero]

40. We also keep hearing from naysayers that they cause more accidents.

Not much data for that, either.

We have limited test data, but even the most conservative of studies on autonomous vehicles admit that they can cut up to a third of accidents.

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/self-driving-vehicles-could-struggle-to-eliminate-most-crashes

The fact that they can reduce accidents up to a third is, somehow, presented as a bad thing. But hey, I suspect you'll appreciate the negative slant it presents to the lives that could be saved.

[brush]

42. Are the studies that say they can reduce accidents done in all weather...

conditions? I mean in rain, snow, sleet etc.? Sunny, clear day testing doesn't prove much.

Who wants a car that's only estimated to be completely safe on clear days?

They've got to get that data as reasonable people, customers, will want to know that.

[Lancero]

43. Are normal cars completely safe during those conditions?

Seems people want driveable vehicles just fine, despite all the inherent risks.

Vehicles are inherently dangerous. You could get killed by a drunk driver, going headfirst into you. You could t-boned to death by a idiot texting. You could end up crushed when a deer jumps in front of your car and goes through your windshield. Or maybe you dodge that deer, but end up flipping the car into the ditch and snapping your neck.

Are you willing to drive a car, despite all these potential risks?

[brush]

45. It's a simple question. Has data been collected in all-weather conditions?

We know about regular cars. What about driverless cars?

Dodging question by citing info on regular cars is not an answer. If you don't know or the data is not there, just say so.

[Lancero]

46. Older data, they did suffer in poor weather similar to regular drivers, however...

New technology has potentially solved that issue, though it has yet to be deployed in scale.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/business/new-radar-can-enable-self-driving-cars-to-see-clearly-despite-inclement-weather/863918

Still though, this argument is rather pointless - True driverless cars don't exist yet. Yes some cars do have some limited capability in daytime conditions, but failure outside of those conditions isn't a point against driverless cars. It's the failure of the driver, when they choose to make use of those features outside of the situations they are designed for.

You blame the technology, for failure to accomplish what is wasn't even designed to do. I, however, put the blame where it belongs - On the person who was supposed to, you know, be the driver.

[brush]

47. Ok, I finally get it. There are not going to be any actual, driverless, all-weather cars...

Last edited Mon Apr 19, 2021, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

just cars with a fair weather upgrade of "cruise control" that's been available on cars for decades now.

Sorry, it looks like we're a long way off as it's gonna take way more than that.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

50. I'm hoping "true driverless" will be around before I get too old to drive.

Alexa, take me to the bingo hall, then go to a car wash, and return to pick me up in time for my 8:00pm bedtime.

[brush]

52. I would buy one of those too. The only way to get that now is with a chauffeur.

And who can afford that.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

53. There are other alternatives: Ubers, public transportation, retirement home transport vans, ...

... all of which can work.

but there's nothing quite as convenient as an owned vehicle. Especially outside urban areas.

[Kaleva]

7. we accept 35,000-45,000 highway deaths per year with our current technology.

If we maintain that while transitioning to driverless cars, would they be considered a success?

[USALiberal]

13. +1000, people forget that. It will just get better! Nt

[Kaleva]

17. I love modern technology and see it as a good thing.

[Tommy Carcetti]

21. Driverless cars are going to be the number one issue of the 2016 election.

IMHO.

[Lancero]

25. I'd think that regulations on time travel would be more important by that point...

Rather than driverless cars.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

49. The OP is about Teslas, not DeLoreans

Until Tesla gets the Flux Capacitor capability, ...

[FakeNoose]

55. I believe the obvious benefits of robo-trucking will show the way

Driverless trucks are already starting to happen, and more advanced technology is in the works.

As humans start accepting the safety records and low-cost advantages of robo-trucking, we'll see more movement towards driverless cars. Not sure if it's going to happen in my lifetime, because I'm 70 years old. My son and grandson will definitely see it in their lifetimes.

The biggest impact of robo-cars and robo-trucks is going to be unemployment - so many jobs will be lost. We need to start planning now for the displacement of people who were formerly professional drivers of one kind or another. We need strategies for retraining of workers, and helping them choose different fields where human skills will be needed and not replaced by robots.

Fields that will not be robotized in the next 50 years: plumbing, electrical work, much of farming, some craft work such as skilled masonry and cabinet-making, computer coding and network security. There are many other "safe" fields, I have touched on only a few here.

[Raine]

4. I'll pass, I wouldn't trust it. One time my GPS directed me to enter the freeway via an off ramp

what if it had been doing the driving what a disaster!!

[USALiberal]

14. Technology progresses! It will be normal in 5-15 years. Nt

[RegularJam]

35. GPS only plays a small role in the actual autonomous aspect of these vehicles. nt

[DavidDvorkin]

5. Teslas are not advertised as autonomous vehicles

The company says they are to be under human control at all times. Blame the human idiots for this, not Tesla or the autonomous cars that are almost surely coming.

[kcr]

31. They absolutely do advertise them as autonomous vehicles

By calling it Autopilot, and Full Self-Driving Capability. It's misleading as all get out.

[Disaffected]

6. I wouldn't be too hard on "self-driving" vehicles.

This instance was a blatant misuse of the technology. No-one, including Tesla, says you can let the vehicle drive itself without someone in the driver's seat and paying attention. Perhaps that will come eventually but it will never be perfect. The key is that future self-driving vehicles will always have accidents but, to be acceptable, the rate of those accidents has to be less than that with human drivers.

Whether that day will ever come is somewhat debatable. IMO we may well reach a point where true self-driving is safer than humans on good roads and good weather but coming up with a system that can handle all driving conditions such as detours, accidents, snowy roads, black ice etc will be much more difficult.

In the meantime, Darwin's work goes on...

[SoonerPride]

8. They are still safer than humans driving.

And that’s a fact.

[gratuitous]

27. Not if you look at fatalities per billion miles

In 2016, the National Safety Council counted 12.5 deaths per billion vehicle miles driven. Autonomous vehicles have a record of deaths per billion vehicle miles anywhere from 8 to 14 times that.

[Mariana]

34. Link, please. nt.

[gratuitous]

36. From the Eschaton blog

The post is three years old, but the numbers haven't changed a whole lot, with the limited number of miles driven autonomously.

[Mariana]

41. I'd like the link to the source you named in your post, please.

You said:

In 2016, the National Safety Council counted 12.5 deaths per billion vehicle miles driven. Autonomous vehicles have a record of deaths per billion vehicle miles anywhere from 8 to 14 times that.

Link, please?

[gratuitous]

44. Sorry, I didn't realize you don't know how to work a computer

Here's the link.

[FreeState]

48. That link doesn't have your stats on it n/t

[USALiberal]

51. Lol, nice try! Nt

[Kaleva]

9. I personally would like to have such a vehicle.

I won't be able to afford one in my current lifetime. Maybe I'll live long enough to be a passenger in someone else's car.

[marie999]

10. Maybe the autopilot wanted to commit suicide.

[Kaleva]

12. This is what Telsa says about the Autopilot feature

"Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot


Neither of the occupants were in the driver's seat.

I kind of suspect beer was involved.

[Mopar151]

16. According to recent reports

Road & Track, IIRC
All it takes to defeat the "deadman switch" is a strategically placed water bottle ( on the steering wheel)

[Kaleva]

18. Would a bottle or can of beer work?

[Mopar151]

19. Likely nt

[Stuart G]

26. Thank You...When you think you have seen it all...Yes, there is more!!!

Always more & different too. Incredible variations of this and that....

[RegularJam]

33. I'm all for this technology for a lot of reasons.

That said, in these early stages you have to be behind the wheel and paying full attention. Full attention. It makes zero sense to not have someone in the drivers seat.

I use the automatic driving features in my VW. It's nowhere near as advanced as the Tesla. I'm mindful every second.

[CrackityJones75]

37. Remember when toasters and other appliances used to cause house fires

At used to happen at what we would today describe as an alarmingly high rate. Also the car was likely not being operated correctly.

[ecstatic]

54. Yeah. I don't like giving up control

My car has some features like lane keeping assist, automatic braking etc all of which I keep off. I'm okay with keeping my eyes on the road and avoiding distractions. When I was at the dealership I asked my sales guy if there was ever a situation where the automatc brakes incorrectly activated on the highway and he said yes! Cameras can get confused in certain conditions of extreme sunlight / curved expressways with concrete barriers on the sides. For those who are willing to place their lives in the hands of new tech, at least do some research to understand the limitations. It's not perfect! Nothing is!