Here's why the Ma'Khia Bryant shooting needs a closer look

[BruceWane]

Lot's of people saying "she was obviously about to stab that other girl, the shooting was justified". But if you really watch the video, you see that it never should have gotten to this point.

Everyone seems to be focusing on the final 2-3 seconds of the video. But WATCH the WHOLE THING.

From the beginning - As the cop arrives on the scene and walks towards the situation, we see Ma'Khia Bryant advancing towards another girl, both of them moving towards the cop. The girl Ma'Khia is pursuing falls backwards, towards the cop. As this happens, we see the bodycam view turn away from the situation.

The next split second is critical.

As the bodycam view turns back towards to the situation, for just a split second we see the cop's hand, holding a gun, flash across the screen, and then we see Ma'Khia has now turned and is moving away from the cop, towards the girl in pink. As Ma'Khia closes in on the girl in pink, knife in stabbing position, shots are fired.

So think about what exactly happened - at the moment the first girl falls backwards, Ma'Khia was right there by the cop. Instead of attempting to physically restrain Ma'Khia while she was within reach and turning away from him, the cop instead turned away from the situation to retrieve his gun from its holster.

The cop turned his attention away from the situation to retrieve his gun, and missed the opportunity to defuse the situation without firing shots.

His first reaction was "get my gun". He panicked. Had he kept a cool head and stayed focused on the moment, he'd have seen the clear opportunity to tackle Ma'Khia from behind.

Would the cop have had the same apparent predisposition to draw his gun had he been approaching a group of white kids engaged in an altercation? Or would he have felt less threatened, stayed focused on the moment, and been able to seize the opportunity for non-lethal de-escalation?

[Devil Child]

1. TLDR, cop saved a young woman from being stabbed, possibly fatally.

Next!

[Haggard Celine]

4. Yes, I'll bet the girl who was about to be stabbed

wasn't second-guessing the cop's actions. He might have been stabbed himself if he had tried to physically restrain her. It's easy to sit back and say well, if the cop had just done x in that split-second, he wouldn't have needed to use his gun. It's also easy to accuse the cop of racial bias when shooting a black person without knowing anything about the cop. When a white cop shoots a black person, it's always because of bigotry, some say. Ridiculous.

[BeyondGeography]

61. Correct...she wasn't second-guessing the cop

Link to tweet

[Politicub]

11. Reckless cop kills a woman because he's not fit to be an officer of the law.

It’s not up to the police to decide life and death. The woman with the knife could have been subdued in so many different ways other than killing her.

[Devil Child]

13. So many ways the perpetrator could've responded other than pulling a knife and trying to kill

Just checked again out of respect to your reply and still can't summon any outrage over this.

[StarfishSaver]

38. The "perpetrator" was a terrified 16-year old girl who surely was not trained in the "appropriate"

ways to respond to an attack.

But the cop who shot her WAS trained in ways to handled situations like this short of shooting to kill

So the onus is on the trained police officer, not the frightened child he shot.

[Devil Child]

44. She seemed quite trained in knife fighting

Perpetrator chose the knife. Perpetrator chose to use the knife. I’ll place the onus on the perpetrator and save the outrage for genuine acts of police brutality.

[GulfCoast66]

68. I keep reading he had so many other options.

But none of them I’ve read add up. Taser? Nope. Hard to aim, inaccurate and he was too far away. Tackle her? Maybe. But that would have taken 2-4 seconds at which point the girl in pink would have been stabbed 2-3 times. And then the cop would be wrestling with a person with a knife. Shoot her legs? Have you trained with a handgun? I have. That a luck shot at best.

If that girl in pink was my wife I would be thankful for the cop for saving her a potentially life threatening injury. That was no 3 inch pocket knife but a 6-8 inch blade. I could have easily hit her heart or liver which would have killed her. Not to mention a stab to the neck.

It a tragedy. And a shining example of how this country does not give a shit about those in poverty, especially those of color. But I don’t see how the cop had any other options.

[artemisia1]

71. Exactly what other ways? Tasers fail often, and suspects charge up on adrenaline can fight through

pepper spray. Unarmed techniques? Not close enough and even had the officer been so, unarmed against knife are not good odds and I say this with someone with nearly half a century in the martial arts. Any reputable instructor will tell you to run, escape, hide, etc. against a knife even if you are a UFC champion (and pro-fighters HAVE been stabbed to death, btw). The officer protected life. He had no other realistic options of saving the other girl aside from shooting the one with the knife.

Let's pick our battles. There are plenty of HORRIFIC cases out there to fight for justice on. This is not one of them. 16 year olds can kill just as much as 66 year olds.

[Chakaconcarne]

2. That knife was heading right toward the girls head with a lot of force behind it.

The officer saved a life or more.

[brush]

3. That's a tough sell. Sometimes the video is what it is. Just as in the George Floyd video.

Unfortunately the young girl tried to stab the other girl with a cop right there. It's tragic. Who knows what set the teen off but her aggressiveness towards another person, even with a cop right there...I mean come on.

A cop was right there. Some kind of treatment was apparently needed. A person of stable mind is not going to try to stab someone right in front of a cop.

Too bad better non-lethal weapons than tasers haven't been developed—maybe rubber bullets which are not a one-chance at success like a taser.

[Cosmocat]

7. YEP

there was some man kicking the girl on the ground ... It was a hot mess all around.

[greenjar_01]

10. He then says to the cop "She's just a kid. Are you stupid?"

He was just kicking the other girl hard in the head!

Incredible.

[brush]

12. "Garbage adults"? Are you fu_king kidding me on this site calling Black people garbage.

You need to take that post down. Had it occurred to you that they were as afraid of an out-of-control teen wielding a knife as the cop was?

It's pretty obvious the teen had behavioral problems and treatment was needed. A stable-minded person is not going to try to stab a person in front of a cop.

Again, you should take your post down. It doesn't belong on this progressive site. Try a right wing site if you want to call Black people garbage.

[Ace Rothstein]

17. I'll leave it up, thanks though.

If people exhibit garbage behavior then I'll call them garbage. Don't care what ethnicity or race they are. One of the adults was kicking a kid in the head, garbage behavior.

[brush]

19. Well, we know who you are.

[Devil Child]

24. Yes, a poster with the ability to think logically n/t

[brush]

25. Insulting all the people there by callng them garbage is not logic, it's something else.

Last edited Thu Apr 22, 2021, 06:48 PM - Edit history (1)

We know who you are.

[StarfishSaver]

39. I'm glad you're keeping it up

It's good for people to see the kinds of mindsets that are in our midst.

[Hawker123]

47. Agree

No mention of race. Some adults are just terrible adults

[StarfishSaver]

55. Because unless race is mentioned, racial bias isn't a thing

[newdayneeded]

18. Behavioral problems?

Stop stabbing people!!

[brush]

21. Yes. Obvious behavioral problems...trying to stab someone in front of a cop.

[WarGamer]

50. poor use of words...

How about irresponsible adults?

[Calista241]

54. Kicking a kid that's just been assaulted in the head makes you a garbage adult. Period.

Sorry not sorry.

[cinematicdiversions]

56. The man kicking a teenage girl in the head is a garbage adult.

Hell i will allow thug for that one. He needs to be in jail for attempted murder at the very least

[uponit7771]

41. ... unless the people are white" ... there, fixed it for you

[Cosmocat]

6. Agree with first two responses

What you are saying is 100% true generally.

But, this guy pulled up as this was popping off, and had no time to have the first clue about what was going on.

I can say that I would not have just dove into that mess without any sense of who was doing what, and there was a guy who jumping in on it, too.

Then in a heart beat he was put into the situation where the victim was going to put a knife into that other girl.

Unfortunately, he did what he had to do.

[BruceWane]

14. Wrong!

"But, this guy pulled up as this was popping off, and had no time to have the first clue about what was going on."

He wouldn't have been there at all if he hadn't received a call to respond to a domestic disturbance. It's not like he rolled up expecting to find a joyful birthday party. It's kind of goes without saying that you may be rolling up on a violent situation, you know?

First clue is "domestic disturbance". First thought should be "may need to defuse a violent situation".

[Cosmocat]

64. Yeah, ok

Did you even watch what happened?

There is not a person alive who could have "defused" that shitshow.

[jimfields33]

8. The tackle would have been criticized most likely as well

[uponit7771]

42. True, white supremacist hate when we don't get killed by the cops

[greenjar_01]

9. Having failed at the "Letting the girl get stabbed is not so bad" argument

We now have the "Cop shoulda jumped on to them like a hockey referee" argument.

Jesus.

[BruceWane]

15. You're right.

Physical restraint shouldn't even be a consideration.

Just shoot 'em.

After all, they're not hockey referees. Right?

[uponit7771]

43. +1, ... and after they shoot us we need another 9 mins of restraint cause we might revive and go on

... a rampage

[Devil Child]

51. Quick question: were you about to stab someone in this hypothetical getting shot scenario?

[uponit7771]

52. Like Kyle Rittenhouse when he told cops he had shot people and he still breathing today?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kenosha-protesters-killed-teen-kyle-rittenhouse-police-report/

Nah

[Bettie]

57. They may or may not even know where he is

while he's on bail, but it's all good, 'cos he's a right wing hero, cops love him!

[uponit7771]

58. IKR !?

[Celerity]

62. Tell me how that would work here.

Last edited Thu Apr 22, 2021, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

I cannot believe how little value is being assigned to the other (the one in pink) black girl's life by some (not saying you) in this tragedy. The copper saved her life, literally, yet she is an afterthought in so many posts.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. Good lord. This is getting ridiculous.

That other girl didn’t just fall. Ma'Khia and her daddy were ganging up and attacking that other girl. Daddy went for a head kick while Ma’Khia went for a stabbing attack on someone not engaged in any fight at that moment. Ma’Khia tried to murder someone holding a dog talking to a policeman right in front of the policeman.

If anyone should have diffused the situation it should have been that “adult” man trying to kick the other girl in the head.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

20. ...

So, who do I believe? A video that clearly shows the teen girl about to stab the girl in pink? Or an anonymous poster on a chat board?

Think I'll believe what the video clearly shows.

[sarisataka]

28. Step right up

We have an unlimited ride wristband



I think a lot of folks missed their calling. Anyone who can disarm a knife wielding attacker from 20 feet in under a second without anyone being injured should definitely have gone into law enforcement.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

29. +100. nt

[SYFROYH]

22. The cop approached with gun holstered and asked what was going on in a nonthreatening tone.

I'm not seeing a predisposition to retrieving his weapon.

His weapon was drawn after Ma'Khia slashed at the girl in shorts who tumbled backward and was then kicked in the head by a male person in a hoodie.

It does look like he steps back, but there is no reason to think that Ma'Kia was going to attack a second girl (in pink).

Maybe he could have tackled her after the first attack, but I'm not sure that stepping back, drawing his weapon, and assessing was wrong.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

23. O ffs

Just say she had a cooking spatula in her hand.

[usedtobedemgurl]

26. What I don't get is....

If he *had* to shoot, why not shoot her in the leg? If she still kept advancing, and that should slow her down, shoot her in the other leg. Why shoot to kill?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

27. Shooting someone in the leg can result in death also,

especially if the Femoral Artery is hit, you would bleed out in seconds.

[usedtobedemgurl]

31. Okay, sorry....

I thought there would be less of a chance of death. My thoughts were even if she died, it would show he tried not to kill her. If death if a foregone conclusion for getting shot in a leg, or a foot, guess they might as well do what they did.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

33. From what the video shows,

the teen girl was literally a split second away from plunging that knife into the other girls neck.

I did a 2 year stint with the Marine Security Forces and we were taught to aim center mass because trying to hit an extremity in such a stressful situation will almost always result in a miss and possibly hitting an innocent bystander.

[usedtobedemgurl]

35. If you look at the full video...

It did not start out that way. The cop had time enough to state if she took one more step she would be killed. Or, he had time to just shoot her leg or hand. A leg would be better, it is a better target. Shooting a knee will stop most people. She would be handicapped enough for the other girl to get away.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

37. I have watched the full video,

and again, the teen girl was a split second away from stabbing the other girl in the neck.

Are you aware that it takes less than 2 seconds to stab someone multiple times?
I'm not going to fault the cop for doing what he had to do.

[ripcord]

30. What if a shot to the leg didn't stop her

What would you say to the other girl if the shot to the leg didn't stop the knife strike already started and she died, "oops, my bad"?

[usedtobedemgurl]

32. No, as I stated...

If that did not stop her, shoot the other leg. This is all assuming the cop did not have a taser.

[ripcord]

36. How much time do think this took?

This was not a situation for maybes because they would have lead to the death of the girl in pink. If the first shot hadn't stopped the girl with the knife the cop wouldn't have had time to reassess the situation to decide if another shot was needed before she she stabbed the other girl in the neck. What if the cop used a taser and the involuntary muscle spasms the shock causes made the knife plunge her throat? The girl in pink needed to be protected from attempted murder, maybes only put her at risk.

[GulfCoast66]

69. Have you ever trained in shooting a handgun? I have.

It’s not like the movies where every shot of the good guy hits where aimed. Even on a static range with hearing protection and no adrenaline it is not easy to hit a dinner plate sized target at 15-20 feet. And with moving legs that is a crazy irresponsible shot.

Because of this, in life and death situations people are trained to shoot at center of mass. Not just cops but military, civilians and everyone training to use a hand gun.

This was not a shooting of an unarmed black young lady. She was armed and within seconds of driving a 6-8 inch knife into another young African American lady. Does no one care about her fate?

[StarfishSaver]

34. Thank you

[WarGamer]

40. Monday Morning QB'ing is silly

Clearly he saw the 2 moving towards him first, saw the knife a moment later. THAT'S when he drew his gun and ordered her to get down.

She was already rushing the pink suit girl at that moment. He actually waited to pull trigger AFTER she'd thrusted at Pink 2-3x

[StarfishSaver]

46. Apparently Monday morning quarterbacking is only a problem when applied to the cop

Second-guessing the dead girl, though, seems to be just fine ...

[WarGamer]

48. One thing you and I agree on, the situation sucked. It was tragic.

We only disagree on if he actually saved a life or not.

I feel his fast action saved a life.

You feel his fast action COST a life because maybe the Pink girl wouldn't have been stabbed so badly.

[ExciteBike66]

45. Remember there were two people fighting, not just Ma'Khia

The cop also had to keep an eye on the guy who kicked the other girl in the head. Not sure what was going through the cop's mind, but if I didn't know there was a knife involved I would assume the male would be a greater threat than a female...

[WarGamer]

49. Arrest that MF'er

An adult kicking a girl in the head

[Calista241]

53. You can see the knife in Bryant's hand as the first victim is falling to the ground.

Which is probably when the cop first saw the knife as well. Then she turns and runs towards the girl in pink, while armed with the knife in a threatening manner.

[boston bean]

59. Somebody coming toward you with a knife? What should have been done?

[GulfCoast66]

70. Apparently according to some here talk them down.

If that fails, well, at least you tried.

And if the young girl in pink is killed, well, at least the one doing the killing was saved.

This is the craziest thread I have ever seen on DU. We are a fact based community. The facts of this situation are plain for all to see. A cop shot a person about to jam a 6-8 inch knife into an unarmed girl. And the cop had no idea she was only 16. Not that it would have mattered.

[Takket]

60. yeah he didn't turn away from the situation to draw his gun because he panicked.

you should watch the video in this thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215364070

[SYFROYH]

63. Did you see this video from across the street? It provide more information.

Link to tweet

[48656c6c6f20]

65. I think what bothers me the most

Is the cop exits the car and hand immediately goes to his side near his gun. Was that a reaction to the skin color of the people he saw? And what is under that arm sleeve?

[Shellback Squid]

66. bench QB'ing

[Cosmocat]

67. Dude

Her AND her adult father were trying to beat that girl down and she had fallen into his knees knocking him off balance. Having walked into the shitshow he did not have the firsr clue who was who, he didnt know was a threat to who or who might go after him ...

He stepped back to get his balance and put a little space between he and the people only to see her ready to strike the girl w the knife. He did make an attempt to verbally redirect her but had no time left and had too shoot her.

This is the polar opposite George Floyd, that was clearly a scumbag cop, this is a cop who clearly came into a wildly out of control situation and ended up in a spot that dictated his actions.

[ancianita]

72. Here's a closer look that Shaun King has learned, both in that situation and in the larger context:

I have to say 5-6 hard things about the murder of Ma’Khia Bryant that you may or may not have heard before. ⁣
⁣
1. Adult women spit on her grandmother after Ma’Khia and her sister called her there to the foster home for help. ⁣
⁣
2. Her little sister called the police on the adult women, who were in their early 20s, because they were threatening them. ⁣
⁣
3. Every single teacher, counselor, and adult in her life said Ma’Khia was NOT “a troubled child.” She was on the honor roll. Did not get into fights at school. Was known as quiet, shy, sweet, and diligent. EVERY friend and adult who knew her said they didn’t even know the person they saw in that video. ⁣
⁣
4. Again, that’s because Ma’Khia felt she had to protect herself, her sister, and her grandmother in that moment — from ADULTS. ⁣
⁣
5. The Ohio foster care system failed Ma’Khia and her sister. Passed them around like hot potatoes - all because their grandmother, who they loved, wasn’t allowed to have them in her apartment. Instead of helping the grandmother, they spent money passing the kids all over the place - until they ended in their final home.