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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNeighbor releases home surveillance video. The girl in pink was one quarter of a second away from...
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Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)break them up. It's as if he wasn't there, just went right around him to attack the girl in pink. I think that was the deciding factor for him to act immediately with his weapon--she was just FOCUSED on hurting someone, single-mindedly. On edit--there was another person who seemed to be trying to hinder or strike at the police officer as well--tall figure dressed in black. But the officer was focused on the knife wielder--cannot really fault him here.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It appears him and the knife wielder were together. He should have been putting his energy into stopping his associate from trying to knife another girl.
Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)ignore or hinder the police officer right up until the weapon was drawn. These might have been teenagers, but they were adult sized and strong. He was trying to get control of the situation as best he could, got into the middle of it to break it up with no other backup--and most impressively, he never lost focus on the girl with the knife. I just can't find fault here, I think he did the best he could.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)nope
Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)He's definitely ignoring the officer.
joetheman
(1,450 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)now, let's see what other excuses are rendered here against the cop.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,435 posts)WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Wingus Dingus
(8,059 posts)That's just not true. Heroic people in all walks of life.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and broadened extremism, of course.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,435 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)when examined, where extremism is seen would be the result of extremism spreading from outside into the departments. Growing extremism is a grave danger to our nation and could bring it down. That's why it's being fostered among all vulnerable to it.
Btw, back in the 1990s for the most part urban-especially black communities were demanding stronger policing and stronger and longer sentences to combat unacceptable levels of crime.
Another great inequity in policing is that it costs a great deal of money, and there's never enough to go around. The result is that communities with lower voting and tax revenue levels get less investment than those that do vote, donate, and expect good policing (typically higher income and educational levels).
The very long, and obvious, pattern has been acceptance of higher crime rates in low-income communities that simply are not allowed in more prosperous communities.
These patterns have long been claimed to "validate" bigoted conservative notions that minorities are inferior and prone to crime; of course they're not willing to pay to give poor parts of town the same low crime rates as more affluent by more and better policing service.
You might want to drive around and see this for yourself. It's out there for anyone who looks.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)hlthe2b
(102,361 posts)But, I think it highly unfair to judge those who are withholding any "acquittal" of the police actions without all the facts becoming clear.
Jumping to conclusions--sans all the facts--is problematic in BOTH directions. THAT is why police-involved shootings are investigated. Why would you suggest it is fine to conclude without those same facts?
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)hlthe2b
(102,361 posts)But you have no problem interjecting a rude comment in a discussion that did not include you, was in no way directed to you.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)It's a joke. I have no problem with people who disagree with me. I'm not running around calling divergent opinions "sickening" or questioning the morality of the posters. That's other folks.
Have a good one.
Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)It goes, "Ma'am, this is a Wendy's . . ."
The idea being, someone in the drive thru is requesting a lot of things that are unreasonable given the environment.
In this case, it's the internet. You're requesting an awful lot of it.
Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)But we're not getting that. We got a lot of condemnation. Then the videos came out. Now it's, "Let's wait." I'm an evidence-based person. I want as much objective information as I can get before making an opinion.
"Let's wait," isn't the Narrative now. The Narrative now is why the cop didn't do the other hundred other options fabricated from the comfort of an office chair or the smear of an iphone in a coffee shop on the internet.
"Let's wait," has become a deflection in a dozen different tangential directions, because the main - exceedingly false - Narration didn't pan out.
A cop saved a black girl's life. It's there. Plain as day, on video. But people married themselves to the Narrative. Within all of two hours, I may add. And they can't admit they screwed up on that one. Newp. Gotta dig in. So now we're going deep, deep into the psychology of all involved - a luxury never afforded when the facts match the Narrative - and given absurdly wrong what if's not based on any physical laws or even passing knowledge of human behavior.
Dogmatists react according to dogma. And here we see it. Why do we think only the Right is somehow vulnerable to it? Humans are humans, with all the same impulses and failures.
A cop saved a black life. He had to take one to do that, but he did. And he was still wrong. Because, white. If he had done less or nothing, the headline would've been, "White cop didn't care, watched black girls murder each other." This human is not set up to win in any scenario whatsoever. The white guy loses.
Once your Narrative must be that, you're no longer seeking progress. You're seeking something else entirely.
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)Chakaconcarne
(2,462 posts)WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Hope the Pink girl grows up to be a Cancer Researcher or School Teacher or something else that benefits thousands of others because she was given a gift.
NQAS
(10,749 posts)but if she hadn't continued to go after the other girl, requiring a copy to restrain her, then no one might have been shot.
Not second guessing anything here. Just another perspective.
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Didn't hear his command
WarGamer
(12,484 posts)OAITW r.2.0
(24,610 posts)Totally a no win situation for the cop. This happened in the first 15 seconds of him coming on scene. No time to get the situation diffused. I'd have done the same thing in this situation.
I imagine everyone at the gathering will have their view of what happened, documented.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)involves the one that went to the ground and the one in pink bullying the knife wielder. That doesn't change accountability for the cop which I felt acted within the law given the circumstances. I want to know what adults were present and what the f__k they were doing. I think the one who kicked the girl on the ground was an adult.
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)No
hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)Did his job. He protected and served.
Im sorry a 16-year old child is dead. Its a horrific thing undoubtedly. And I know its unpopular right now to ask where her parents were, how she had a knife, etc. But the other young lady would be maimed or dead had the officer not acted.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)WarGamer
(12,484 posts)Kaleva
(36,343 posts)As a former foster parent, my guess is this girl was way beyond what the foster parents could handle.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)but I seem to have worded it poorly.
I give foster parents all the praise in the world, what I meant is that the state itself failed her.
Kaleva
(36,343 posts)One of the reasons I'm not a foster parent anymore is that I don't think I could handle having a child in my care returned to what i know to be a very bad situation. It almost happened once but my wife and I immediately went to battle to fight for the little girl in our care when the state wanted to return her to her mother. We won and she is now a very happy, well adjusted 6 year old who lives with her father and his wife (who is not the girl's biological mother).
JI7
(89,269 posts)mother and some other family.
I'm not sure why she was in a foster home at this time but it looks like she kept regular contact with her mother and other bio relatives.
I keep thinking if she had undiagnosed mental health issues. Which might have made her paranoid others were after her .
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)That is a very real possibility and something to consider.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)Maybe the knife wielder was going to just intimidate and threaten. Restrain herself in the last moment in time. We will never know.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)she was in the physical act of attempting to stab the girl in pink in the throat, she was literally a split second away from plunging that knife into her throat, which more than likely would have resulted in her death and then the cop would be condemned for not taking action sooner.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)she was in the physical act of attempting to stab the girl in pink in the throat
She appeared to be in the physical act of attempting to stab the girl in pink in the throat.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)stopdiggin
(11,368 posts)(but especially the cop) have to base our judgement(s) on? C'mon, man! Let's wait and see if she really stabs somebody in the throat? That realistic?
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)quote -->Let's wait and see if she really stabs somebody in the throat?
I disagree with that. Even though it is possible, this was not a situation where you should wait and see.
The same reasoning is behind whether you should just fire 1 bullet and wait and see if it had the intended effect.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)and take the chance on what the knife wielder, who had already lunged at and knocked another girl to the ground, was intending to do with the girl in pink?
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)quote -->So the police officer should just hope that non-lethal force wasn't required
I do not agree with that. I think the police officer acted correctly.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Nixie
(16,976 posts)smh
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The young African American lady in pink did not get a 6-8 knife ram-Jammed into her chest cavity or throat because the cop took action. And that is what any open minded person viewing the video of this situation would rationally expect to happen sans the cop rolling up.
I guess he could have waited. And then had the stab gone thru shot her. At which point there would be 2 dead young African Americans.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)I am glad the policeman didn't wait.
As for what an open minded rational person who viewed the video would expect without the cop rolling up?
Can we add that they knew the 911 call had been for attempted stabbings?
I have more than a few seconds to think about this. And since there were many people standing calmly around, it is likely that no actual active stabber who had killed people was there. Likely meaning that the bark had been worse than the bite up until then.
I have seen many examples of someone showing their rage and
having threatening posture and then not making the final coup de grace.
It reminds me of what I've seen on tv where they stop the action and say what do you think happens next.
So, I'm with you on the actions being necessitated. But, I think a rational person might think it closer to 50 50 of what happens next.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)What was the cop supposed to do? Cross his fingers and keep yelling?
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)Brave.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)You know like Daredevil or TJ Hooker. I don't think they teach that at the academy.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)The intimated ignorance of cops treating black people who are a threat different than white people as a threat is even more shitty
Fuck this bullshit
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)The suspect was even armed with a knife while white and still got himself killed by a white cop. Such privilege!
[link:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/mother-of-teen-killed-by-trooper-mourns-awesome-young-man-mother-senator-soviet-union-baltimore-orioles-new-york-b1831557.html|
Both cases seem like justified and necessary uses of lethal force to me. YMMV.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)pnwmom
(108,995 posts)at the expense of the knife wielding Black girl.
This doesn't seem racist to me. I think he would have done the same thing with two white girls.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)pnwmom
(108,995 posts)between two white girls, I don't think the shooting was racist.
And the wide-angle view from the neighbor's security camera shows what a chaotic situation that cop immediately found himself in. I agree with the neighbor who thought he didn't really have a choice.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... segment !!!
Maddow basically made the point that black people in justified killings are killed disproportionally than whites by the police EVEN WHEN THERE'S JUSTIFICATION IN KILLING THE WHITE PERSON.
Maddow made the point in last nights segment that white people are NOT killed like or at the same rate as black people even when justified so ... no, ... justified (like Makia's killing) doesn't always mean right or moral or even necessary.
Now, there are some LPC's wanting to play either dumb to shit kick or people who don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to neutralizing Makia and means to do so without killing her.
There was means to neutralize Makia without killing her ... but ...like Maddow said in regards to killing black people disproportionately the cop pumped four slugs in her instead, justifiably.
People have gone to the point of stretching to absurd to claim there was ... not ... a means to neutralize the girl.
That's just one example, there are a slew of others including a myriad of statisitcs that strengthen mine and Maddow's argument that ...
Justified killings, especially when it comes to black people, do not mean moral or necessary or even the right thing to do especially when means are FOUND not to even hold under bail for premeditated attacks on police.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Im a thinking, hopefully rational fact based guy. I dont need a talking head to tell me what to think. In fact I am skeptical of them all. They are there for ratings.
Ive seen the tape of this case. And the cop saved a young African Americans life. The one without a knife and not doing the attacking.
Do I agree with Maddows point? Of course. Black people, especially men are daily shot when white men in their exact same situation would not be. Often the white man would never be stopped. As I southern white man Ive personally seen see enough disparity in the way cops treat white folks and black folks to leave no doubt. I would today have an arrest records if I were a black man. Or be shot. Im somewhat outspoken.
But that has nothing to do with this case. In this case it is apparent that the cop stopped a young African American lady from having a 6-8 inch blade plunged into her body. It like some people dont cate about her. Should the cop allowed the stabbing to occur? Because that is what this situation is about.
I could type for an hour about how this country continues to allow folks to wallow in the poverty they did not cause. Especially people of color. Which is the ultimate cause of all this. But this thread is not about that subject.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)you trying to argue with me about Maddow?
I don't believe there WAS means to neutralize Bryant under the particular circumstances that occurred without killing her. She was running around, lunging at first one girl and then at another, pinning the girl in pink to a car and lunging at her with the knife. All this just happened in a few seconds. The cop looked up from trying to help the first girl (who had fallen to the ground), saw Bryant lunging at the second, and fired his gun before she could stab her.
I don't know how anyone could view this event from the security camera's point of view and decide the police officer did something wrong.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... one making this very point, black leaders are making this very point.
that
... black people are killed disproportionately, justified or not, when whites people who pose a threat (like Rittenhouse) are FOUND a way (disproportionately) to let go with their mothers
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)there wasn't a clear better alternative (a taser isn't fast or accurate enough at that distance), the danger to a life was imminent, and he did prevent the stabbing of another Black girl.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)against this shooting? Especially in the neighborhood?
Could it be because there is a recognition that this was a life and death situation and this is nothing like the George Floyd murder or the Kyle Rittenhouse murders?
How come there are no civil rights leaders calling for this cop's head? Could it be because they recognize it's nothing like the 2 murders I alluded to?
There is no doubt in my mind that given the same exact circumstance involving 2 white girls, the outcome would be the same, but your mind is so closed that you just won't admit that you could be wrong
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)APPEARS AT THIS POINT, to be a justified shooting.
Notice I said appears, now if something comes out that there is some question of legality of the shooting, I'll be the first to condemn the cop.
Have a great afternoon.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)there are several on DU who have stated that this wasn't justified.
kcr
(15,320 posts)pnwmom
(108,995 posts)in particular and what the home surveillance camera showed.
Many of us didn't watch Rachel or Joy tonight.
stopdiggin
(11,368 posts)for insisting -- even when facts don't fit -- 'racist cop incident.'
Yeah -- plenty of examples of racist cops and racist enforcement. And DU is pretty much all in on that. But, then -- you just can't seem to back off on this incident. What gives?
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Treefrog
(4,170 posts)stopdiggin
(11,368 posts)attempting to not step on legitimate sentiment and feelings -- even when I myself don't always share the same ....
But I think the 'all cops' -- 'all incidents' narrative is a dangerous (and distorted one) -- and perhaps it is time to start pushing back against it. Whether the sentiment arises from a legitimate place of hurt and anger or not (and I'm more than happy to endorse that) -- I think the simplistic narrative is wrong -- and capable of bringing further harm.
And, to be perfectly clear, I am not necessarily accusing this particular post, or poster, of trafficking that misguided theme. But there can be little disagreement that there is a whole lot of it floating around on the site at the moment -- and that is what I'm attempting to address. (in my own small way)
bullwinkle428
(20,630 posts)girl in the pink.
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)Yup
ripcord
(5,537 posts)And qualified expert marksman.
sarisataka
(18,773 posts)- the cop did not come out gun in hand
-the was no fight where she was using the knife in self defense
-the physical conflict started where she pushed the other girl down and slashed at her
-the cop did reach out to try and grab the knife wielder
-he was inhibited from chasing by the man who was kicking the girl on the ground
-at the sound of the first shot, the knife was mere inches from the head/neck of the girl in pink
-given the wind up and thrust it is surprising she wasn't stabbed based on the momentum of the thrust
I sure there are many other details I missed
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)What would not be surprising is if you are misjudging the momentum.
It is possible that the muscles were stopping the momentum and you do not see that. Thereby making it "surprising" to you. Also, it could be that the video is grainy, or at an angle or is at a speed that makes your analysis come to the conclusion that it is "surprising"
sarisataka
(18,773 posts)As there are millions of possibilities in any situation.
However at that moment, from the POV of the cop, there were two possibilities. One is that he waits and the girl in pink may have a knife handle deep in her throat. The other is to shoot, hopefully averting the knife in throat, knowing that it may be fatal to the girl with the knife.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(515 posts)Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)That's what we should be basing our decisions on. Facts. Not would've should've could've, "Well, maybe . . ." scenarios.
Cops are actually humans. And if I were in that position, with a gun and knew how to use it (I have no idea), I'd fire to protect a victim from a life threatening attack. At least I hope I would.
I don't think this case is even arguable. It's ridiculous at this point. Devolving into parody.
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)I cant believe what people will say to maintain their narrative.
Kaleva
(36,343 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,438 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)And society didn't just charge Kim Potter with manslaughter.
They are "all" justified killings.
There comes a point where failure to recognize any progress becomes a radical and detrimental attitude to hold.
America is primed to agree with you, with us, on many of the abuses of police against black lives. But you're determined to take the route that is both 1. false, and 2. alienates people from your cause.
You keep saying these untrue statements.
And yes, since I'm scanning and browsing, I'm going to call out every single one. Because I think it damages BLM. It's too important for lies and hyperbole.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)You hold the Narrative very dear. I do not.
And I'll note, you've ignored arguing many, many points I've put to you.
So what is your aim? And answer honestly. You may not have noticed, but I don't care about Bad Words that make people cower.
I ask for facts.
Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)I'd personally like to hear more about how we should've summoned a social worker in that quarter of a second, and why the Star Trek phasers set to stun weren't employed immediately to manage it.
Or maybe people are just making very dumb arguments. But that can't be true. Let's return to the teleporter/phaser hypothetical that apparently seems real popular.
48656c6c6f20
(7,638 posts)We have telepathy that were able to read minds and establish intent.
Sympthsical
(9,113 posts)Im trying to stay grounded in the realistic alternatives over here.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,196 posts)Eventually. I imagine right now, she's pretty traumatized by the events.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I hope she can remain anonymous and go one to lead a good life. Because she was seconds away from having her young life potentially ended.
She been through enough.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,196 posts)But I understand your point completely. May she somehow move through this and go on to do great things.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Especially the one who kicked the other girl/woman who was attacked instead of trying to stop his companion who was trying to stab the other girl/woman.
Willto
(292 posts)It's disturbing to see any life ended under any circumstances. But that policeman acted properly in that situation. No matter what may have transpired prior to his arrival at the time the cop pulled up the girl in pink was unarmed and not trying to attack anyone. It therefore cannot be justifiably claimed that the girl with the knife was acting in self defense when she went after her with the knife. If you try to stab someone to death in front of a cop you will most likely be shot regardless of your race. And quite frankly the people at DU who in some of the other threads have tried to compare this to some of the instances where a policeman needlessly and improperly used deadly force are doing a disservice to the victims in those other cases. It seems some here just have a blanket hatred of all police. I have even seen it suggested that we disband all police forces. Really? Reform sure but do away with them all together? That's not just absurd it's scary to know people that out of touch with reality are driving on the same highways with me.
The officer acted with the best of intentions. He saved the life of a woman under attack.
FakeNoose
(32,756 posts)Some cops have good intentions, they act on instinct and training, and that's why they're cops.
Sometimes it has nothing to do with race or anger issues, or something else. Sometimes the cop is the only guy with a gun, and the only one who can stop something bad from happening.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)It would not matter if they were black or white, male or female, 16 or 56, I would shoot them and apologize to no one.
While I own guns I certainly do not carry one around. So if I were in that situation I would find myself fighting someone with a 6-8 inch knife who had already stabbed and potentially killed my wife.
The cop saved that young lady in pink.
flying rabbit
(4,639 posts)All this hand wringing about a gentler approach ignores reality. In a perfect world this situation would have never happened at all.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)happened here.
garybeck
(9,942 posts)I would think that the protocol is if someone is trying to stab another person, and you are trying to prevent that, you could shoot them once in the leg and that would pretty much put them down.
Not to mention probably could have overtaken her with a club, his own hands, or a taser.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on using the gun, but why 4 shots?
marie999
(3,334 posts)you don't stop shooting that person while they are still armed.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)This isn't a 50's Western. It's hard enough to shoot someone accurately in an extremely stressful situation, and the chance of successfully hitting a limb is considerably less than if one aims for the torso. What's more, a shot in the leg can easily kill someone if it hits an artery.
As for the four shots, one shoots until the threat is neutralized. A scenario in which one: "Bang! (pause, assess the situation for a couple of seconds), Bang! (pause and repeat)." isn't realistic.
marie999
(3,334 posts)There is a person with a knife attacking someone and another person kicking someone in the head. By shooting the person with the knife he could have been placing himself in danger by not stopping the person right in front of him.