General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJoe Manchin announces he is opposed to DC statehood
Link to tweet
?s=20
He knows a Constitutional amendment has zero chance and would take forever.
MisterNiceKitty
(422 posts)Silent3
(15,293 posts)I think he likes being the one holding the keys to anything Democrats want to pass, and doesn't want two Democrats from DC messing that up for him.
MisterNiceKitty
(422 posts)Since you can't count on Sinema either.
tritsofme
(17,405 posts)And for some reason I dont think youll see them rallying around a proposal that will send two new Democratic senators.
MisterNiceKitty
(422 posts)If he's behind this proposal (& I'm not sure that he is) I would wait and see what he can achieve.
tritsofme
(17,405 posts)The votes arent there.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Fuck his constituents; they're just the little people.
brooklynite
(94,757 posts)Celerity
(43,579 posts)MisterNiceKitty
(422 posts)Celerity
(43,579 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,225 posts)WarGamer
(12,485 posts)maxsolomon
(33,419 posts)clearly large enough to justify statehood.
Celerity
(43,579 posts)(for poltical reasons) a binding plebiscite favouring statehood. That outcome is in no way guaranteed. The vast, vast majority of DC, on the other hand, has demanded DC statehoood for decades.
maxsolomon
(33,419 posts)I don't think any new states are plausible, regardless. Not during the next quarter century.
Celerity
(43,579 posts)Last edited Sat May 1, 2021, 02:56 AM - Edit history (1)
I cannot believe this false statement is STILL being pushed on here. I and others have thoroughly discredited this disinfo on multiple occasions, yet it keeps on rearing it's false head.
Admission to the Union Clause
Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1:
Making DC a state violates NONE of those requirements.
People get confused as there was a constitutional amendment to give DC Electoral College votes without being a state and without having voting members in Congress. The constitutional amendment WAS needed in that case, as it was a new power construct, one not delineated in the Constitution.
Finally (and this has nothing to do with DC)
is NOT am absolute ban on any of that because the next part gives a way for ANY of those to actually happen
maxsolomon
(33,419 posts)unless I misunderstand his argument, or, actually, his dismissive refusal to consider the argument.
Celerity
(43,579 posts)the statehood bill carves out a small federal district (with zero legal residents) to satisfy any constitutional demands
if it actually took a constitutional amendment people would not have wasted decades trying to pass the legislation
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)Celerity
(43,579 posts)the nation as a whole. Not just on DC statehood, but also on so many other of his stances. Unless he and Sinema cave and allow at least some impactful modifications of the filibuster, all of Biden and the party's non reconciliation-eligible agenda is in the ditch, including the voter rights/protections bills, racial justice/police reform bills, etc etc etc-
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)Deal with the situation.
Celerity
(43,579 posts)IF we do not somehow put into place impactful modifications of the filibuster, then most of Biden and the party' non-reconciliation included agenda will be dashed upon the rocks of Rethug obstructionism. Biden can but do only so much via Executive Orders. The voter rights/protections bills alone not being passed would be a massive systemic blow.
Also, I have not even (I so hope Manchin and Sinema do NOT have the nerve nor stones to even go here) dealt much with the possibility that even reconciliation is potentially in serious jeopardy. On at least that, I think Manchin and Sinema will be simply beaten down and cave in due to combined force of the rest of the Party. IF they actually do go there, as say nope, no reconciliation other than extremely limited, micro targeted legislation, then Biden will likely be a one term POTUS. Again, I am nowhere near that level of pessimism on at least that specific thing.
Deal with the situation.
Gaming it out (pardon the pun), IF they do not cave and the filibuster rules stays as they are now, I am all ears as to what you would do to 'deal with it'. The bills are not going to magically pass themselves, as they will never come to a vote. What are your plans/suggestions?
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)Background checks, ObamaCare safeguards, Tax policy, SS reform, Infrastructure...
ALL can find bipartisan support
Celerity
(43,579 posts)most important of all, the voter bills and the racial justice/police bills?
ZERO chance we get to cloture on those.
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)Don't waste time on it.
Work where the fruit is.
Celerity
(43,579 posts)midterms, and 2024 is on grill. IF things go truly pear shaped, and Manchin and Sinema end up being the chief or only cause of it, then they will go down in history as the two most hated Dems since Dixiecrat days. I truly hope they do not go there.
Don't waste time on it.
Work where the fruit is.
Other than DC statehood, this strikes me as being far too flippant and dismissive of the potential disastrous fallout. You also seem to be placing far more faith in the Rethugs than I do. They hold most of the cards in your scenario, thanks in large part to Manchin and Sinema. The Rethug voters will NOT punish them (the Rethug Senate) for being super-obstructers. They will vibrate in wicked excitement, cheer on the voter suppression, and will turn out in waves in 2022 to try and kneecap Biden via taking back Congress.
As a game theory aficionado, surely you can see the approaching multivariate systemic risk we are potentially facing.
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)Pass laws, make life better, get seniors off of poverty, make the rich pay their fair share... all doable before '22
Celerity
(43,579 posts)you seem to be whistling past the graveyard on that
WarGamer
(12,485 posts)You lay out a list of gun control regulations... agree to make it just background checks if he allows vote... stuff like that.
aocommunalpunch
(4,245 posts)Dudes predictable as ever.
ZonkerHarris
(24,262 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,225 posts).
.
Bleacher Creature
(11,258 posts)I'm so tired of this guy.
hlthe2b
(102,406 posts)I don't have to like him. Still, I tolerate many a vegetable I don't particularly like, either.
As they say in the South, he makes me want to "smack him upside the head" to knock some sense into him. Sigh...
SheilaAnn
(9,711 posts)msongs
(67,459 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,445 posts)I was just about to say.......
JohnSJ
(92,433 posts)Efilroft Sul
(3,583 posts)dsc
(52,169 posts)and there is a colorable case that for at least some of the state it wasn't legal. But when VA sued to get those parts back the answer was basically shut up you were rebelling.
Efilroft Sul
(3,583 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,445 posts)can we just assume he's opposed to EVERYTHING- unless he says otherwise?
MustLoveBeagles
(11,641 posts)Luciferous
(6,086 posts)Dave says
(4,628 posts)I can think of no other reason for his bizarre behavior.
TomDaisy
(1,955 posts)Dave says
(4,628 posts)I think it must be more than that.
budkin
(6,721 posts)We'll get just as much done with him gone as we will right now, because he's literally blocking EVERYTHING.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I'm sure they cannot be articulated in polite company.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)Celerity
(43,579 posts)That is a false premiss. I have documented this multiple times here. Sigh.
Johonny
(20,895 posts)David__77
(23,549 posts)...
Bettie
(16,130 posts)Seriously, does this surprise anyone anywhere?