General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMillions of Americans are about to get hit with diaper sticker shock
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/business/diaper-costs-families-poverty/index.htmlDiapers are a pricey, essential item for parents. Now, they're getting even more expensive, hurting low-income families already struggling with the pandemic's economic woes.
Disposable diaper prices rose 8.7% during the year ending April 10, according to the latest numbers from NielsenIQ, which tracks point of sale data from retailers. Diaper makers recently said they are planning additional price increases, which may further stretch low-income families' budgets if stores choose to pass on the hikes.
Kimberly-Clark (KMB), the maker of Huggies and Pull-Ups, will increase prices on these products by mid-to-high single-digit percentages in June, while Procter & Gamble (PG) which manufactures Pampers, Luvs and All Good diapers will raise prices on such brands in the mid-to-high single digit percentage range in mid-September.
It costs around $80 a month to provide diapers for one child, and one in three American families struggled to afford diapers even before the pandemic, according to Joanne Goldblum, chief executive officer of the National Diaper Bank Network.
Demand for diaper banks has surged during the pandemic. The non-profit group, which has a nationwide network of over 200 diaper banks, reported an 86% increase on average in the number of diapers distributed to children and families during the pandemic compared to pre-pandemic figures.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/business/diaper-costs-families-poverty/index.html
Timewas
(2,196 posts)Too fucking lazy to use cloth diapers and save al that money. They can find sympathy in the dictionary...
Do you know how much time and effort goes into to washing and dealing with cloth diapers? And it's almost always the women that have to deal with that disgusting task, men are never bothered with it. A bit judgemental, aren't you?
I know cloth diapers are better for the environment, but poor families don't really have the income to hire a diaper washing service so the extra burden falls on poorer mothers who are probably already working at least one job and now you want to call her lazy for not wanting to increase her workload? Let me guess, you aren't a mother or a woman.
Diamond_Dog
(32,090 posts)I tried cloth diapers for my first son. That lasted about six months.
Washing cloth diapers uses hot water, electricity, and detergent, which costs money, plus many lower income moms have to use a laundromat and has anyone seen what those cost nowadays, its unreal. Plus the extra time involved.
meadowlander
(4,406 posts)So while washing cloth diapers uses hot water, electricity and detergent the environmental impact is negligible compared with disposable diapers. The baby wears the disposable diaper for a few hours before it is soiled and discarded and then the baby's 15x great grandchildren will still be dealing with the environmental impact.
I know that raising children is difficult, especially for lower income parents. But that doesn't change the bigger picture impacts that the choice to have kids and the choice to use disposable diapers have on the planet that we all have to live on. If people paid a fraction of the actual cost that the impact that disposable diapers have on the planet then everyone would be using cloth diapers and thanking their lucky stars they have that as an option. As it is, the bulk of that cost is being deferred to later generations and to poorer countries that get paid to be landfills for the richer ones.
Is it wrong for a single lower income couple to want to make their difficult lives a bit easier? No. But it's a problem when 140 million people a year all make the same convenient but environmentally unsound choice and there's no reality check on the consequences.
Shermann
(7,446 posts)Landfill usage is a nasty type of pollution but so are greenhouse gasses. Today's atmospheric carbon will be around for future generations as well and seems to be a more immediate threat.
phylny
(8,389 posts)To wash cloth diapers, you have to soak them in a diaper pail in a solution (usually borax), and then dump the diapers and water into the washer. You have to spin them. Then, wash on hot, with a double rinse.
That's relatively easy to do in machines that you own. It's not as easy to do with commercial laundromat machines because you don't have the flexibility to change the settings like you need to.
I used cloth and my daughter will use cloth. I will not judge those who have to haul their laundry to the laundromat.
Diamond_Dog
(32,090 posts)I have seen disposable diapers labeled biodegradable at Walmart recently.
I didnt check the price, but I suppose they cost more.
luckone
(21,646 posts)places (smell)
Yes there are other environmental issues with cloth diapers and daycare is not going to take them
The best thing anyone can do is early pottty training imo saves $ and diaper trash
Akacia
(583 posts)we do take cloth diapers, no problem. Actually I like the new cloth diapers. Much easier than the old ones and better than disposable.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)If dad is willing to pick up the task, then I am all for it. But I would hardly consider someone lazy for opting out.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't think it's right to call them "lazy". Thank you for sharing your experience!
Ms. Toad
(34,095 posts)I used cloth diapers. IF you have a washing machine in your house/apartment, it's not that big of a deal - and much cheaper.
If you have to go to a laundromat - cloth is probably more expensive (and not practical, given the need to haul wet, heavy, stinky diapers and run multiple cycles). Definitely more time consuming.
Diamond_Dog
(32,090 posts)I soaked the soiled diapers in a pail. By the end of the day that pail was too heavy for me to pick up, my husband had to take it down to the cellar when he got home from work. I cant imagine lugging that to a washing machine on another floor of an apartment or to a laundromat.
Thought I saw diapers recently at Walmart that are supposed to be biodegradable now.
Ms. Toad
(34,095 posts)But they were still heavier than a basket of clothing, because of the pee. And we could only get away without soaking because the washing machine was in our house, and easily accessible for daily washing.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)dem4decades
(11,304 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)While there would be savings now given the increase outlined it wouldn't be a huge savings. I also imagine most daycares would have issues with using cloth diapers.
Iggo
(47,571 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)I'm so OVER 'people having children'.
Time for that nonsense to stop anyway.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)I very much doubt the price of diapers is going to stop people from having babies.
unless, of course, I missed the sarcasm.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Baby-time should be over
Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)But, OMG, can you just hear the wingers if "one child per couple" was ever brought up????
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)continued decline, and the trend is expected to continue.
If they just stopped instead, though, we'd also "gain" a massive die-off of humanity around the planet.
As it is in the real world, of course, lack of fresh diapers will lead to millions of second- and third-degree burns on babies' bottoms. Some babies will die from resultant infections.
Celerity
(43,545 posts)Europe's population is getting older. Between now and 2030, most EU countries will see the number of workers over 50 increase to 55% of their overall labour force. The European Commission forecasts that spending on healthcare for older people and pensions (currently 25% of GDP in the EU), will rise 2.3 percentage points by 2040. The demographic challenges vary across the EU. Portugal, Greece, Italy and Spain are among the top-10 countries in the world with the lowest fertility rate.
Uncertainty over poor job prospects, low wage expectations and an inflexible labour market are leading women to have fewer children and to have them later in life. However, getting over-50s into good work has a positive impact on the economy, and can create new markets or expand the so-called silver economy. The silver economy spending by people aged 50 years old and above will reach 6.4tn by 2025, and be responsible for nearly 40 per cent of the jobs created (source: EU Commission).
snip
Europe needs many more babies to avert a population disaster (from 2015 and it's only getting worse)
Across Europe birth rates are tumbling. The net effect is a perfect demographic storm that will imperil economic growth across the continent
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/23/baby-crisis-europe-brink-depopulation-disaster
When Spanish business consultant Alejandro Macarrón started crunching the numbers behind Spains changing demographics, he couldnt believe what he was seeing. I was astonished, said Macarrón. We have provinces in Spain where for every baby born, more than two people die. And the ratio is moving closer to one to three. Spain has one of the lowest fertility rates in the EU, with an average of 1.27 children born for every woman of childbearing age, compared to the EU average of 1.55. Its crippling economic crisis has seen a net exodus of people from the country, as hundreds of thousands of Spaniards and migrants leave in the hope of finding jobs abroad. The result is that, since 2012, Spains population has been shrinking.
Record numbers of economic migrants and asylum-seekers are seeking to enter the European Union this summer and are risking their lives in the attempt. The paradox is that as police and security forces battle to keep them at bay, a demographic crisis is unfolding across the continent. Europe desperately needs more young people to run its health services, populate its rural areas and look after its elderly because, increasingly, its societies are no longer self-sustaining.
In Portugal, the population has been shrinking since 2010. For many analysts, the question now is how low can it go, with projections by the National Statistics Institute suggesting Portugals population could drop from 10.5 million to 6.3 million by 2060. According to prime minister Pedro Passos Coelho: Weve got really serious problems. In Italy the retired population is soaring, with the proportion of over-65s set to rise from 2.7% last year to 18.8% in 2050. Germany has the lowest birthrate in the world: 8.2 per 1,000 population between 2008 and 2013, according to a recent study by the Hamburg-based world economy institute, the HWWI. The UKs population reached 64.6 million by mid-2014, a growth of 491,000 over the previous year, according to the Office for National Statistics. On average, Britains population grew at a faster rate over the last decade than it has done over the last 50 years.
Macarrón is astonished at the reluctance of Spanish authorities to address what he calls a direct threat to economic growth as well as pensions, healthcare and social services. He and a few friends took it upon themselves to begin tackling the issue, starting the non-profit group Demographic Renaissance in 2013, with the aim of raising awareness of the crisis. Most people think were only talking about something that will be a problem in 50 years, but were already seeing part of the problem, he said. If current numbers hold, every new generation of Spaniards will be 40% smaller than the previous one. A political knock-on effect is the overwhelming political power of the grey vote. Macarrón points to the crippling austerity measure put in place during the economic crisis: During the same time frame, expenditures on pensions rose by more than 40%. Were moving closer to being a gerontocratic society its a government of the old.
snip
Emerging Europes attempts to counter depopulation are failing
https://emerging-europe.com/news/emerging-europes-attempts-to-counter-depopulation-are-failing/
It is no secret that Central and Eastern Europe is facing a depopulation crisis. Recent studies by the UN and scientific research groups, such as this Lancet study, have placed forecasts for the regions depopulation at anywhere between 50 and 70 per cent by 2100, making it one of the most quickly shrinking regions in the world. According to the UNs statistics, over the next 10 years Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Romania are all among the top 10 most rapidly declining countries in the world, with rest of the region not far behind.
This scale of depopulation is something that no country wants. A shrinking and ageing demographic can create strains on healthcare and social support systems, while restricting the competitiveness and longevity of the labour market. This intrinsic relationship between population make-up and economic strength further influences geopolitical power, creating a large scale feedback loop. Ultimately, this can disenfranchise youth both economically and politically amplifying emigration. Hundred of thousands of emerging Europes young people have already made their way west in search of better economic opportunities.
The region is not oblivious to this silent and increasing threat. A poll conducted in Ukraine last year saw 55 per cent name mass migration as the countrys greatest challenge, which is a considerably telling statistic considering that the country is effectively at war with Russia. President Volodymyr Zelensky was elected partly on a pledge to reverse the brain drain, and like many other governments in the region, recognises addressing the issue as a top priority, with concerns over low fertility, emigration, an ageing population and the subsequent strains this can create on social security networks and infrastructure.
In an effort to overcome what, at this point appears almost inevitable, many of the regions governments particularly those of a more nationalistic and right-wing bent are coming up with policies focused on raising the fertility rate. However, this push to establish what some analysts have dubbed baby factories is not the answer. In some cases, these policies may even be making the situation worse.
snip
Analysis: COVID-19 worsens Europe's inequalities in yet another way - the fertility gap
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-births-analysis-idUSKBN28B3XA
LISBON/ROME (Reuters) - Its time to become a mum, was the push-notification hundreds of Portuguese women received on their cell phones last month. The text, sent by a private hospital in Lisbon trying to drum up clients for its maternity unit, caused outrage on social media, with some women saying that the middle of a pandemic and recession is the worst possible time to have a baby.
Evidence suggests the coronavirus is deterring would-be parents from conceiving in most of Europe, but especially in the southern countries - from Italy to Greece - where safety nets are weakest and the birth rate was already in strong decline. In the year 2000, there were 120,000 births in Portugal. Last year there were 86,600, a drop of 39%. The fall has been steepest following deep recessions such as the current one triggered by COVID-19.
As well as the emotional challenges now for couples wanting children, in the long run there will also be economic challenges for countries that could face years of struggle to pull themselves out of the mire. Fewer births means fewer and older workers. This will eventually be a drag on economic output and a strain on public pension schemes and welfare states, widening the gap between the richer north of Europe and the poorer south.
You see stories in the media and elsewhere about people making the most of the lockdown to make babies, but that is the opposite of rational behaviour, says Vanessa Cunha, a specialist in fertility, gender and family issues at University of Lisbons ICS. The pandemic will have a big negative impact.
snip
bottomofthehill
(8,348 posts)With some of the machines always seeming to be down, might I add during a pandemic.....
Dont think I would call it lazy.
Timewas
(2,196 posts)A lot of us went through that as we raised our families and washed diapers in a tub, I would do that again at $80 a month for damn sure..Saves a lot of landfill also..
KentuckyWoman
(6,695 posts)It can be done. It is done all over the world where they have babies and no modern conveniences. What America considers a necessity, often isn't. It is a convenience.
I would call disposable diapers a "necessary" convenience for parents. Both working, the demands of modern life. I'll be 80 soon. I grew up putting cardboard down in my shoes because we can't afford new soles. I am the oldest and was 12 when the youngest came along. One of my jobs was the diapers - from about age 7 on.
Living today - I would consider disposal diapers essential. They aren't really. The baby won't die using cloth and a family won't die having to hand wash the cloth diapers in the sink or tub or whatever and string lines all over the place to dry like we did.
But if I could, I'd make other sacrifices to afford disposables in a heartbeat.
bottomofthehill
(8,348 posts)My parents used cloth diapers for me and my siblings born in the 60s but the 70s siblings were cloth diapers at home and pampers on the road. The transition was funny, I remember my parents saving bread bags to put cloth diapers in when not at home. We were a big family and lived by the hand me down, although I actually called them handeedowns and thought it was pretty cool to get my cousins clothes and used sporting goods, until I realized it was not as cool as I thought.
My daughter and son in law live in a small apartment, there is no drying line and cloth diapers dont dry fast. My daughter was pregnant with our second grand child, working (teaching elementary school from home) son in law was able to change his work schedule to 4-12 so they could keep their almost 2 year old safe while both working and expecting their second child during a pandemic.
The are in a 750 Squ foot apartment with now 4 of them. Would it be possible to wash diapers for 2, an infant and toddler, yes, easy though, nope not really. Growing up in a 3 family house in the north east, every house had a clothesline attached to the back porch. It created a little space in the house. There were always diapers on the line and on radiators drying. They have neither.
My wife and I are both still working and financially helping, and in a few weeks, my wife will have her second vaccine and will move into their little apartment to help.
Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #43)
kcr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tink41
(537 posts)Eliminate on the floor. Vinyl, hardwood, tile. Easy peasy just wipe and go. Ive suggested this to several friends. No worries if you're out and about. Just like a dog, they could arrange potty spaces.
luckone
(21,646 posts)pants or no bottom but take them to the toilet
Using slit-bottom pants called kaidangku, Chinese children have traditionally used very few diapers. Instead, theyre encouraged from as early as a few days old to release when theyre held over a toilet. And when theyre out in public, they often wear kaidangku, which allows them the freedom to do what they need to do in a tree box, on the sidewalk, or while theyre being held over a trash can.
Made sense to me? But sounds like last decade or so now they are using some diapers and at the same time some westerners are adopting to the holes in clothes of old China ways
Hybrid
Western parents and increasing numbers of Chinese parents have adopted a hybrid form of that practice, relying on toilets as well as carpet-free homes in case of accidents and putting a diaper on baby bottoms for excursions away from home
https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/2012/1123/Potty-training-Chinese-style-With-a-diaper-free-child-look-for-potted-plants
Today, Garton encourages all of her friends in America to think about trying elimination communication. Nobody has come close to considering it, she says. Its so far outside that Western way of thinking. Weve been brainwashed by the diaper companies with their marketing efforts, she adds.
The baby clothes are the same cute outfits just with open holes in the crotch
Cairycat
(1,707 posts)of whether your child care providers are also willing to deal with them.
Raising cotton for the diapers also exacts a high price on the environment.
I did some of both, but my kids are grown now.
Supposedly my husband was potty trained by 12 months. What that amounted to was that his mom and grandma were very attuned to his signals, and by responding to them, eventually taught him to recognize needing the toilet.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Most kids don't or are just walking by then.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)Any of you judgmental people want to weigh in on adults needing Depends?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I need Depend, or Poise, or the Target store-brand. For many of us, it's a fact of life.
Brace yourselves, youngsters. Stand by. Your time is coming too.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)The actors are all highly active mature people demonstrating you can do vigorous exercises in public places, especially women.
I read an article several years back about the trouble with landfills filling up with disposables, and that is where I got the line about adults vs babies. Big lightbulb went on.
As for moi, well, knock wood.
NameAlreadyTaken
(982 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,695 posts)When both parents must bring in income just to keep roof and food, throw away are essential.
If parents can't bring in enough to afford all of what is considered essential, it is time to either rethink what is necessary. I don't mean for the individuals. I mean for society.
People have to be able to raise a child or the whole society fails.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and no duty bigger than caring for them.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Dont have children.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Vinca
(50,310 posts)costs a fortune to take care of them. Then they have another one.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)very real problem for the babies among us? We all know many more people, who did not anticipate these economic disasters, will not be able to change as often as needed. Fortunately, summer is coming and bottoms can be left "out" in the fresh air for a while, and to keep diapers from chafing for at least those little periods, but of course that's not a fix.
kcr
(15,320 posts)But, DC Statehood now!!!!!!! You sure are consistent.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Soylent Green.
marie999
(3,334 posts)Anyone who can use them should use them.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)but the disposables of long ago were completely unacceptable to us and we never considered using anything but wonderfully soft, fluffy cloth for our babies.
Tracer
(2,769 posts)Services that picked up the pail of dirty diapers and brought back clean diapers a few days later.
That's what I used for my kid's cloth diapers, but that was a long time ago.
I also used disposable "liners" in the diapers for the "solid" stuff.
kcr
(15,320 posts)and wonder why I even come here anymore.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)You saw how far my comment babies use is for 2 years, but adults are forever went.