DeSantis ban on vaccine proof may send one company's cruise ships out of Florida

[mia]

Link to tweet

If Florida won’t allow Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination for passengers and crew, the company’s CEO says it will take its ships elsewhere.

CEO Frank Del Rio made the threat during an earnings call Thursday, just days after Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill passed by the Republican-controlled state Legislature that bans businesses, schools and government entities in Florida from asking anyone to provide proof of a COVID-19 vaccination.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings is the world’s third largest cruise company, parent to cruise brands Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas. Miami-Dade County spent $263 million building a terminal for Norwegian at PortMiami that finished construction last year.

Del Rio reiterated the company’s commitment to guarantee that everyone on its cruise ships will be vaccinated when cruises restart in the U.S. Competitors Royal Caribbean Group and Carnival Corporation will require 100 percent vaccination for upcoming cruises in other countries like the United Kingdom and Israel but have not yet announced whether U.S. cruises will have the same requirement....

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article251212754.html

[Hortensis]

1. Good, but there'll go many more badly needed jobs if it happens. nt

[gab13by13]

3. Good! Blame DeSatan for lost jobs.

[Hortensis]

32. There's that signature care and compassion for those in trouble

that's so typical of political hostility on both sides, trumpists and others. Democrats, Republicans, minorities, children all the same, all deserving of that special concern.

[CrackityJones75]

39. well... He would be the one to blame

I don’t get it. Are we not supposed to point out his lunacy and failures because people will lose jobs? Nobody here is rooting for this to happen. he is causing it to happen.

[Hortensis]

41. Shouldn't we see the whole picture, not just a selected slice that pleases?

How are we supposed to make decent decisions, hell just be halfway decent people, if we refuse to even notice, much less care about, the costs to real people?

[CrackityJones75]

47. I don't understand your mindset

is it your thinking that the people here are not halfway decent people?

Let’s get something straight. Nobody here is rooting for his actions. His actions are his own. You are creating a picture that doesn’t exist. If Desantis is going to go through with this there is nothing anyone here or anyone else can really do about it. The quickest way to righting his wrongs is to remove him from office. The best way to remove him from office is to highlight his poor decisions and actions. That is what people are saying “Good” about. If he makes this decision then he will have to live with it. And there is nothing anyone here can do change the outcome otherwise.

[Hortensis]

50. I hope you could if you tried, but we're all different in what

we think we should care about.

[CrackityJones75]

54. I have tried.

Indon’t see what you see. You see people reveling in people losing jobs but I don’t see that happening. Again we have no say in either way. Even if people were receling in that happening they still wouldn’t be to blame for the situation. Desantis is making this decision and he deserves every but of fallout that goes along with it.

[Hortensis]

55. No, I don't. I again only read the first line and realized your "take"

does not intersect my thoughts. Have a nice afternoon.

[CrackityJones75]

67. Ok good luck with your both sides angle

Ok good luck with your both sides angle.

[Blues Heron]

2. little boy Desantis is finding out how grownups operate

how the pukes came to stake out the pro-virus side of things as their territory will be written about for years. It's bizzare.

[Sherman A1]

4. I am going to order my Florida Tourism Guide this weekend

have them spend the money to send it to me and send it straight to the recycle bin. Did that for Georgia after the imposition of new voting restrictions and it seems I will have to add a few more states to my little protest.

[CaptainTruth]

5. What jurisdiction does DeSantis/FL have over Norwegian Cruise Lines?

From what I've seen all the major cruise ships sail under a different country's flag & are usually "officially" based out of another 3rd country (their home port).

So, what jurisdiction does FL state law have over a (for example) Norwegian ship (owned by a Norwegian company & sailing under the Norwegian flag) that has a home port in the Bahamas?

When I saw DeSantis' announcement about banning vaccine passports one of my first thoughts was that it wouldn't apply to any of the major cruise lines because none of them are FL businesses & none of the ships have their home port in FL.

[FBaggins]

8. Substantial

In general? Very little jurisdiction.

But they can’t use a Florida port without complying with Florida law. And NCL can’t operate without using Florida’s ports (where well over half of US cruise passengers embark)

[FBaggins]

6. Send them out of Florida to where?

Florida contains the bulk of the cruise embarkation capacity in the country... and the few alternatives (e.g., Galveston) often have the same problem.

I’m sure that a compromise can be reached... but NCL doesn’t hold much leverage here. A bit like threatening to hold your breath until you get what you want.

[mia]

13. The Caribbean.

“At the end of the day, cruise ships have motors, propellers and rudders, and God forbid we can’t operate in the state of Florida for whatever reason, then there are other states that we do operate from. And we can operate from the Caribbean for ships that otherwise would’ve gone to Florida,” Del Rio said.

Del Rio reiterated the company’s commitment to guarantee that everyone on its cruise ships will be vaccinated when cruises restart in the U.S. Competitors Royal Caribbean Group and Carnival Corporation will require 100 percent vaccination for upcoming cruises in other countries like the United Kingdom and Israel but have not yet announced whether U.S. cruises will have the same requirement....

[FBaggins]

16. Not a chance

That would completely flip the business model.

There are a few such options (embarkation from an island port), but they make up little of the overall market.

The appeal of cruising (at least for most of the Florida market) is that it’s cheap and easy to get to the ship, and it takes you to multiple foreign ports (which would be much more expensive if you had to fly there). The economic of cruising (again - for the Florida audience) crumbles if you have to fly to Jamaica a day early (and get a passport rather than a passport card).

The embarkation capacity isn’t there. There’s a big difference between getting on/off a ship at a mid-cruise location and what is needed for initial boarding

[cab67]

24. San Juan, Puerto Rico

Norwegian already operates cruises that travel to San Juan. It's a US territory and thus not much different than flying to Miami or any other US port.

NCL by itself might not have much leverage, but the tourism industry as a whole absolutely does. That's why Florida was the first state to allow prosecutors to charge teenagers as adults - there was a series of high-profile violent crimes against foreign tourists in the 1980's, and some countries started issuing travel advisories against going to Florida. That started to hit Florida in the pocketbook in a big way.

(That's also why Florida will be the first state to do away with these ignorant "stand your ground" laws. Sooner or later, a yahoo with a gun is going to shoot a tourist from abroad and walk. Travel advisories will come back.)

Friends of mine in the know about these things say "When the Mouse says 'Jump!,' the Florida legislature doesn't ask 'how high?' It merely starts jumping and jumps until told to stop."

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. This is true. We were looking at the difference between

Flying to Miami ( always expensive) vs. flying to San Juan. Comparable. And the bonus is that once you fly to PR, you are already "there" and you can Cruise to more destinations in 7 days for example. I imagine this could be the same if you were coming from Europe.

[FBaggins]

30. There are only two cruise terminals in San Juan

And those are already in use once cruising starts back up.

The Port of Miami has nine terminals by itself.

NCL is only about 10% of the cruise market. They probably could shuffle around a bit. But they would only lose business to the other lines if those don't follow suit... and there's no way to replace Florida for cruising in general.

[smb]

69. Other Lines Really Have No Choice But To Follow Suit

The high-profile "COVID Outbreak On [cruise ship name]" stories that would inevitably follow if they give in to DeScumbag's demands will kill any hope of reviving their already reeling industry.

[IronLionZion]

28. Some have already started using Bahamas, Mexico, St. Maarten

it will be temporary and lower capacity than pre-pandemic.

https://www.cruisehive.com/the-cruise-industry-is-looking-elsewhere/48417

[FBaggins]

35. From that article:

"The infrastructure already in place in the States cannot be replicated anywhere else"

Just as important is the business model itself. There's much more inherent demand for cruises leaving from FL

[Arazi]

38. While I'm no Nostradamus, the demand just isn't there for this year

That may change but the demand simply isn't there.

We've lost the entire foreign market and far too many Americans aren't getting onboard unless everyone is vaccinated.

Plus like the airline industry employees driving the hard enforcement of the mask rule, the staff will want the passengers vaccinated to protect themselves. Who will work the ships if they stand a high risk of getting Covid or stuck in quarantine in a 6x8 ft windowless prison cell er, cabin for 2 weeks?

[BumRushDaShow]

46. Norwegian has cruise ships that have been docked in Portsmouth (Norfolk), VA the past year

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/portsmouth-marine-terminal-to-host-three-large-cruise-ships-beginning-monday/291-cb927bef-bdf9-4a04-aa75-166edae822ea

They were there at least into the summer and would go out to sea and come back every once in awhile to keep the engines in shape.

Link to tweet

TEXT

The Port of Virginia
@PortofVirginia
We’re glad that our Portsmouth Marine Terminal will now serve as a temporary place to call home for these cruise ships & their crews.We’re also honored to work with our partner @tparkerhost to bring in & service these vessels safely & efficiently https://bit.ly/2W6rybv
Image
Image
2:37 PM · May 4, 2020

Am not sure where they are at the moment but there are places up north from FL that can handle them. We could probably handle them here in Philly as long as they stay south of the Walt Whitman Bridge.

[FBaggins]

48. There are scores of places that an 80k ton ship can tie up

The number of places that can act as embarkation ports for the same ship is far smaller.

Portsmouth (Norfolk really - next to Nauticus) has one.

Philadelphia could probably park one next to the Kennedy for a day stop (though that could cause Jones Act issues), but it couldn't act as an embarkation port for a cruise without spending tens of millions of dollars... perhaps hundreds.

[BumRushDaShow]

51. Considering that none of the lines have anything booked

it's one of those things where even if they could get something up and running (and I heard a news story last night where they said it would typically take about 90 days to get a ship ready to go after a downtime like this), then I expect they setup wherever they could with the least hassle.

The tens/hundreds of millions for those types of ports are usually also due to having "state of the art" malls there and all sorts of other things that really aren't related to embarking on and disembarking from a cruise ship. They are there for "passenger experiences".

I.e., just like most airports have been built/renovated to have retail stores, tourist shops, and piles of food chains/restaurants, so too do these newer ports. But that is not "needed" to get on and off a ship. The ships DO "need" a way to load and unload cargo to support that ship and obtain maintenance for that ship.

And here in Philly if they ever fixed it up, they could use the recently renamed (again) ship yard now called the Philly Ship Yard (formerly Aker). Those "high end" ships can sit next to the "working class" ships!



(I know I know )

Back in 2015 when I was in the Bahamas, I saw piles of cruise ships all lined up in a row. They didn't have all the fancy stuff.

[ZonkerHarris]

49. I've taken two cruises in my life. One departed Miami, the other left from San Juan PR

They have options and San Juan could use the jobs.

[CrackityJones75]

52. Puerto Rico

it is a better embarkment location anyway. But more expensive to get to

[CrackityJones75]

53. Puerto Rico

it is a better embarkment location anyway. But more expensive to get to

[Arazi]

7. He's acting like these companies have no other options like New Orleans or Savannah

There are other southern ports. While FL has managed to garner a lot of that traffic, cruise lines don't need FL to dock and sail.

Their greater long term survival will rest on keeping their passengers from repeating last year's fiasco as floating infectious petri dishes

[FBaggins]

10. They don't

Georgia/Louisiana/Texas don’t have the capacity to replace Florida’s ports (about 60% of US embarkations)...

Plus any or all of them could pass the same restrictions (Texas already has)

[Arazi]

12. I don't think the cruise industry will be robust again for a long while

The supply and demand for cruising may be just about equal until Covid is under much better control.

Europeans and Asians can't come here atm and won't be here for months if not a year.

Many cruisers are wary, especially after watching last year where so many got sick.

While there isn't capacity at the other Southern ports to handle a normal year's number of cruises, I suspect this year and probably next year's could be redistributed if Desantis can't be talked out of this.

[flying_wahini]

15. Texas could if the companies spent $263 million to build the port like they did in Florida.

[FBaggins]

17. Texas already has the same vaccine policy in place

Nor would I expect a county to spend that much unless they thought it was a permanent benefit.

[TxGuitar]

63. Texas has not said that.

Late Tuesday, Abbott’s press secretary said the executive order didn’t apply to private businesses but didn’t address private businesses operating from public facilities.

“Governor Abbott respects our state’s business community and does not believe government should unnecessarily interfere with the free market,” press secretary Renae Eze said.

“Like the old adage ‘no shirt, no shoes, no service,’ private businesses have every right to determine how to conduct and manage their business — the same as with requiring patrons to wear masks,” she said. “Only private and public entities that receive taxpayer funding are prohibited from requiring vaccine passports.”

From Galveston County The Daily News today. In fact, Galveston is where Carnival will begin operating cruises.

[mia]

18. "Miami-Dade County borrows from Wall Street to fund PortMiami cruise terminal projects."

Port of Miami (Florida)

...Before the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic paralyzed the industry, the county agreed to pay US$700 million toward the projects - 5 new cruise terminals and 2 company headquarters. The companies - Carnival Corporation, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings, MSC Cruises, Royal Caribbean, and Virgin Voyages - agreed to repay the county US$5.8 billion over the next 20-62 years.

Miami-Dade County and the cruise companies exchanged letters citing unforeseen circumstances, or force majeure, in order to get relief from the payment deadlines after United States health authorities cancelled cruises in mid-March 2020. No agreement has been announced.

Building on the NCL-Norwegian Cruise Line ship terminal finished earlier in 2020 a few months behind schedule. According to Port director Juan Kuryla, the Virgin cruise ship terminal will remain on its planned timeline to finish prior to the arrival of the company’s 2nd vessel in November 2021. Timelines for the other projects are being renegotiated.

The biggest chunk of the US$335 million in bonds will go toward building of Virgin Voyages’ terminal - US$130 million.

https://www.cruisemapper.com/news/7863-miami-dade-county-borrows-wall-street-fund-portmiami-cruise-terminal-projects

[TxGuitar]

65. Galveston is already the 4th largest cruise port

And maybe Houston could reopen it's cruise terminal.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. A factor that has to be considered is time. People wanting

A 7 day one week cruise for example. Galveston vs Miami. More days "at sea" with the former if you were trying to get to eastern Caribbean destinations. Why most trips out of Texas go to the west, like Cancun & Cozumel.

[mitch96]

9. "Send them out of Florida to where?" ?South East Georgia?

I like the idea of the cruise ship asking for proof of vaccination, not the state.. Or the ports they go to require proof..
m

[FBaggins]

11. Better response - offer the vaccinated a substantial discount

Really a penalty for the rest.

If the unvaccinated want to cruise... that’s fine. They just pay a bit more. If the crew and 90% of the passengers are vaccinated... a few holdouts aren’t much risk. And the cruise line could use the extra cash

[snowybirdie]

22. We certainly would

not cruise again if there were knowingly unvaccinated people on board. That industry is in big trouble for the foreseeable future.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. Totally agree! Plus being around all those ignorant deplorables :)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. Fuck that. Quarantine them and make them sleep outside.

Set up tents on the aft deck and throw sandwiches over the fence for meals.

Hose ‘em down with a fire hose for swim time.

[DBoon]

57. "a few holdouts" are called superspreaders

[FBaggins]

58. No they aren't

When all of the crew are vaccinated and the vast majority of the passengers are too... and the cruise line can still screen you on boarding... the chance of spreading the virus is tiny. The risk to those of us who are vaccinated would be incredibly small. I would be more concerned about noroviruses

[Phoenix61]

14. It's a great big world. There's lot of ports on the west coast.

My guess is the only way they can staff the ships is if staff knows everyone will be vaccinated.

[FBaggins]

20. Lots of ports on the West Coast...

... and precious few places worth cruising to.

With the demise of the Alaska cruising season, ships are more likely to relocate in the other direction.

[Phoenix61]

56. Lots of people who cruise never get off the ship.

They’d be happy doing circles off shore out of sight of land.

[LanternWaste]

62. You certainly do move those goalposts...

Deftly, nut not subtly.

[Buns_of_Fire]

19. "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" "We Reserve the Right

to Refuse Service to Anyone"

I think this is going to involve some serious time in the courts.

[lagomorph777]

21. No shit.

You are correct!

[Jon King]

23. Donnie's little buddy loves attention...

Cute, Desantis actually thinks he will be President some day. Only problems are he has zero charisma, will be linked to the hated Trump by all Dems and swing voters, and much of the country will automatically disqualify him because they view Florida as a joke state with nice weather half the year. He would lose a general election by 15 million or more votes.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. 2024

[Rebl2]

27. Good! Do it!

[IronLionZion]

31. Disney has already told DeathSentence who really has power in Florida

so the cruise industry could do the same if they work together.

[FBaggins]

36. No they didn't. Those stories were lousy reporting

Almost every story I saw acted as though the governor ordered: "no more requiring face masks!" and Disney "rejected" his "mask order".

None of that occurred. The state removed the requirement that businesses must require masks, but left them with the discretion to do so on their own. The explicit statement was "In terms of what a supermarket or some of them choose to do, a Disney theme park, this [legislation] does not deal with that one way or another"

[lark]

34. Excellent - now the onus is on the other cruise lines.

It would be really hard to relocate their Caribbean trips but I'd love to see them do that and Death Sentence take the deserved blame. I for one will not go on a cruise again until this is mandatory. One sick person from a different country or one stupid repug could be enough to infect the whole ship with all the buffets.

[bluestarone]

37. If the vaccine is FULLY approved

Doesn't the federal GOV. have the authority over DeSantis with the cruise lines? I thought they could enforce this policy.

[FBaggins]

43. Yes and no

Congress could act... but almost certainly won't.

The President acting by executive order probably isn't an option.

[bluestarone]

45. I'm thinking the Cruise lines could sue DeSantis THEN

DOJ. step in to support the cruise lines? (after fully approved)

[OnDoutside]

42. Maybe it might be worth NCL and other lines getting together and hitting DeathSantis with

loads of negative ads to bring his numbers down ? That might get his attention.

[Xoan]

44. So Cruising out of Florida is currently unsafe.

Thanks for the heads up, mini-me.

[Solly Mack]

59. May? Do it.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. Let's think about this . . . . .

There are more hospitable ports further north in North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. The Virginia and Maryland ports are high volume and have some cruise business already.

Demand will not come roaring back so even limited or make-shift port accommodations could be ramped up as new facilities are built.

The downside is the distance might add a day to sailing/at sea time. I suspect the cruise lines will look this because there is more time for casino gambling, bar bills, gift shopping, and other on-board cash business.

Instead of places like Miami be embarkation ports, they could be downgraded to ports of call or even a chance to just sail by and invite passengers to "man the rail" and flip them off as they steam by.

There is also an upside. Soon enough the Florida sea-level port facilities will be underwater. New, more northerly ports could build new facilities designed to change with rising sea levels. Also, portside hotels for early arrivals would not be underwater in 20 years.

[LiberalFighter]

61. I doubt DeSantis is smarter than the attorneys for Norwegian Cruise Line.

[gulliver]

64. Another example of Republicans strangling free enterprise for politics

[Xolodno]

66. Doubt that will hold up in the courts.

But if it did...

Any port that has the ability load and unload container ships outside of Florida can quickly convert an unused or less used area for passengers. And I bet there will be several nearby states (or US Territory) that will be salivating at the option of having a cruise line. The hotel taxes alone for people arriving prior to departure and/or leaving after their return would be a nice windfall.

[Arazi]

68. Why are the courts involved? Because NCL is moving its embarkation sites?

How could DeathSantis sue them?

[dlk]

70. Customers contracting a deadly virus while on a cruise is bad for business

DeSantis apparently doesn’t care.

[Mad_Machine76]

71. Well well

if that isn't the consequences of your actions.......

[LisaL]

72. All the cruise ship companies should leave Florida.

NT