Has CDC burned its bridges? If there's a surge can they persuade people to put their masks back on?

[Towlie]

A Washington Post article says We’re vaccinated — we should be tossing our masks the way grads toss mortarboards.

Grads toss mortarboards to celebrate that they're done with school. If people toss their masks to celebrate that they're done with masks then it seems likely that it would be very difficult to convince them to put those masks back on, even if they still have them.

With COVID-19 still thriving in other parts of the world and the possibility of a new mutant strain showing up and rendering our current vaccinations irrelevant, I'm certainly not tossing my mask! In fact, I've accumulated a fairly large collection of masks and I expect to be keeping them around for quite a while.

[soothsayer]

1. They did include a caveat that they'll adjust guidance if needed

[soothsayer]

2. But who besides me heard that? Ha

[Treefrog]

25. This.

[Hugin]

29. I did.

It yielded an audible, "snerk".

[SheltieLover]

12. Why not wait until there is solid research published on vaxes/variants?

Just seems off to me.

[Ms. Toad]

45. People no more heard the possibility of adjustment in the future

than they heard that the change in guidance pertained only to fully vaccinated people.

[Bettie]

3. Our local school has said "no masks anywhere" now

only about half of the teachers and staff are vaccinated, the rest say "nope, not me" and well, none of the younger kids, because it only opened up to 12-15 today.

My kiddo gets his first shot tomorrow. Glad he's still online until next year.

[AllaN01Bear]

4. i will continue to wear mine in large crowds and in buildings and washing of hands.

[JohnSJ]

5. Their guidance essentially says if you have be vaccinated you don't need a mask, and if you haven't

you should wear a mask

Is that going encourage anti maskers who haven’t been vaccinated to wear a mask?

Nope

[Generic Brad]

37. But it will thin the hopeless herd of anti-vaxxers

And they will have no one to blame but themselves.

[former9thward]

79. How will they be thinned?

75% of seniors have been vaccinated. Covid kills far less than 1% of those below senior age.

[Generic Brad]

80. I'm not referring to the elderly

I’m referring to the hopeless anti-vaccers. Their safety is compromised. They haven’t cared up until now - so why should we worry about them now?

[former9thward]

81. I have never cared about them.

People make their own choices. I was just pointing out Covid does not thin out anyone. The death rate is extremely low.

[dawg day]

6. Well, it's for the vaxxed--

Even if there's a big surge, most of us will be completely safe.

And those refusing the vax aren't wearing masks anyway, unfortunately.

It's the people -- like those on immune-suppressants-- who can't have or don't respond well to the vaccine who are going to be in danger, and that's terrible, because just a mask won't protect them from a surge. They're going to have to go back into virtual lockdown if the virus is rampant again.

[Scrivener7]

16. Unless all these unvaccinated hosts create a variation that thwarts the vaccines.

[dawg day]

64. Sigh. I wonder how they became so stupidly stubborn--

I bet 98% of them have had the MMR and polio vaccine... but then, their parents probably loved them. Now they do what Tucker Carlson and Trump tell them to do.

[womanofthehills]

72. The India variant B.167.2 is the variant of concern says WHO

It’s doubling every day in UK - even under lockdown - not good. Our vaccines might only be 40% effective against it and its already in the US

[Texaswitchy]

78. Scary as hell.

That is why my housemate and I have gone prepper.

We have my old bedroom full of stuff for the year.

No need to go out.

Plus a big garden and chickens for eggs.

I have plenty to keep me busy.

[Ms. Toad]

46. I don't think you understand the numbers.

95% save is not "completely safe."

Generally speaking, if your community has such high incidence of the disease that you are constantly in contact with people who are capable of infecting you (in circumstances that would transmit the disease), you only need 20 such contacts to contract the disease. Assuming you were vaccinated in an mRNA vaccine. If you had J&J, you only need 4. That's hardly "completely safe."

The more infection in your community (i.e. the bigger the surge), the more likely you are to encounter those 20 (or 4) COVID-transmitting-contacts before the odds are no longer in your favor.

[womanofthehills]

73. Also, Forbes reported some new research yesterday

Each month your percentage of vaccine protection goes down - they believe to 50% protection at 6 months (lower for J&J) at which time you will need a booster. I also read 95% protection might be a number for a younger person but as you age your protection will probably be less. Immune systems all work differently - some produce way less antibodies than others.

[BigmanPigman]

7. Kids will still need to wear them in Elementary Schools

and the community outbreaks will drive the changing guidelines as we move out of this. Fauci just said that people are free to continue to wear masks if they are nervous and that businesses can choose to close if they feel their environment may not be the safest. It is up to communities and current Covid science. Both individuals and businesses will need to continue to follow community guidelines but are free to mask up or not (if fully vaccinated).


*The UNKNOWN now is whether or not a fully vaccinated person who tests positive for covid and has the virus it in their nasal system can infect others. That is why Bill Mahler canceled his show tonight after testing positive after being fully vaccinated weeks ago. He has Covid in his nasal area but can he transmit it to others? We don't know the answer yet.

[Treefrog]

27. South Carolina schools said no masks required anymore.

Heard that on NPR this morning, and there was something about it on CNN as well.

[BigmanPigman]

38. As a teacher I would wear a mask in schools for another year.

I was sick 90% of the time I was a teacher in K-6, and I always got flu shots, ate and sleep well, exercised regularly, etc. Kids are natural germ factories. The virus is new and even the experts don't know how much virus is shed through the nasal passageways of those fully vaccinated yet they still test positive and are asymptomatic.

[Ms. Toad]

47. That's not really unknown.

Infected is infected - so yes, if you are infected you can transmit the disease.

(The prior "unknown" was whether COVID prevent infection or just severe disease, and that was only unknown becuase it wasn't tested in the initial research. The research now is pretty solid that it prevents infection(and by extension if you are not infected you cannot transmit the disease to others). But it is not perfect protection - those are the breakthrough cases. There is no science-based reason to believe that once infected the vaccine gives you magic powers that prevent transmission to anyone you come in contact with.

[RegularJam]

8. People who trust in and believe the CDC will listen to them.

People who don’t, won’t.

Everything Donald touched took a hit. Politicized to the tenth degree. I believe we have a competent CDC.

This question is now regional. There is no such thing as a surge anywhere in the state of FL. Not today, tomorrow, or next month. The CDC’s impact in this state is only with federal buildings and employees.

[rockfordfile]

32. FL is the worst because of DeSantis

Wear your masks

[RegularJam]

34. Our state is embracing and living a lie.

It’s bullshit.

I’m very vigilant about my mask. I get what’s going on yet have been painted into a corner. I’m an active and healthy person but have not been vaccinated because of some temporary medications. In my area right now people like me are only being protected by our own decisions. The County I live in did better than most high population areas but over the last month it’s become each person for themselves. No one in the convenience store I go to was masked this morning.

The good news is I’ve been given the green light to get the vaccine next Friday. Have my appointment set. Had to be off the other meds for two weeks.

[Heart666]

54. Lol if you don't think this decision was political, even though Trump isn't POTUS now

[RegularJam]

55. No, I don't think it is.

There is currently no legitimate justification for mask wearing be vaccinated people. If anything, such a continued policy falsely give the vaccine a negative perception. Unlike navel gazing political officianados, the CDC has to publicly defend their decisions and that defense can’t simply be an overwrought emotional argument.

[Heart666]

56. There was a perception that continued mask mandates might hurt Democrats at the polls

[RegularJam]

57. Then why is the CDC still calling for unvaccinated persons to wear masks?

Making the statement you did does not bolster your initial point, at all.

Decisions made will always have a political ramification, one way or another. Understanding that does not mean every secession ever made is a political one.

[Heart666]

59. With no way to verify vax status

It’s essentially getting rid of masks for everybody.

[RegularJam]

62. Fully agree and have stated it.

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15431585

The CDC cannot act as you wish they would. They can’t stand there and justify a policy by saying the country is a bunch of liars and acting like children.

Their policy is sound. They cannot publicly justify, by way of science, what you would like them to.

[uponit7771]

60. It was based on data from Israel and a couple of hospital studies.

[Texaswitchy]

9. I am still wearing my mask.

CDC should have waited a few more months.

It will be hard to get people back into masks unless a major breakout happens.

The virus is going to spread again.

[Peregrine Took]

11. Us, too. Don't care if we get dirty looks - still keeping them on. n/t

[Texaswitchy]

13. The kids are just starting to get their shots.

Needed to waited until after the kids get theirs first.

By the end of summer would have done it.

[Arkansas Granny]

15. I'm still wearing mine on public transportation and in crowded indoor spaces.

Less than 1/3 of my state has been vaccinated.i am ready to start going places, just gonna wear my mask when I do.

[Tree Lady]

31. Me too until cases go down in my area

We are up not down and only 44% has at least one vaccine shot in my county.

[SheltieLover]

10. Not sure what they were thinking.

I'm not losing my mask / changing social distancing behavior anytime soon, if ever.

Fully vaccinated for a month of so, but vaccines are 94-95% effective & zero guarantees regarding mutations.

Wtaf?

[Texaswitchy]

14. I am 67 years old.

Both shots.

India is scary right now.

My mask stays.

[SheltieLover]

19. I'm with you on this, for sure!

Similar in age and mind set!

[Texaswitchy]

21. So many without shots yet or will not get them.

My allergies feel better also.

I hope everything works out.

I have watching YouTube for news on India.

It is scary over there.

[SheltieLover]

23. Yes, it's very scary over there!

Humans just don't seem to "get it" -- no more cramming together, regardless of how greedy venue owners / operators are.

This CDC "decision" just does not feel right to me. Governors, etc. were not informed ahead of time. Leaves me wondering how many dumpites are left at CDC? I never listen to CDC anyway, as they say whatever is convenient.

I suspect, perhaps,. this time, they are attempting to kill more Americans to suit putin's agenda, or are attempting to placate the maskholes. Whatever their game is this time, it's not sitting right with me.

[Texaswitchy]

40. I do not feel right about it either.

We have been stocking up on food and essentials.

It is starting to get hot here so I have no urge to go out in the heat.

I can stay home under the AC for the summer.

I can keep myself busy at home.

[womanofthehills]

74. I cannot believe the CDC does this when the Indian variant arrives in US

The variant has escape mutations - our vaccines might only be 40% effective or less against this strain.

[Celerity]

35. 'zero guarantees regarding mutations'

The Moderna variant-tweaked vax (mRNA-1273.351) we were given in the Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset experimental trial here in Stockholm is showing as high, or higher efficacy so far against the main variants out there as it does against the legacy strains. We got our immunity results back Thursday (from a draw draw 2 weeks after our 2nd vax dose We got the equivalent of the NIH Experimental Arm 2C I list below, and all 4 major immunity cohorts (B Cell, T Helper Cell, T Killer Cell, and Antibody counts) were off the charts.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04785144




this is from the Moderna US trials:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/950650

I'm not losing my mask / changing social distancing behavior anytime soon, if ever.

Ever? I have no idea of your age and/or your comorbidities, but zero chance we (my family) are forever altering our lives to that extent. Perhaps you have reasons that mandate such drastic moves, and if so, you have my sincere condolences. Hopefully someday you can find a work-around.

[Kahuna]

17. I agree. nt

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

18. Probably

I don't see mask mandates anywhere lasting through the summer, nor do I forsee the ability to implement new mandates if there is another surge. Once they come off and distancing ends, it will be extremely difficult to get people to comply again unless a surge results in a massive spike of deaths.

[Biophilic]

20. When I went shopping this morning everyone was still wearing masks even in the

outside plant shop. Yes, I live in a well educated city, but it doesn't appear people are suddenly dropping their guard and jumping in without thinking. Most of us have spent over a year trying to protect ourselves and loved ones from Covid 19. Telling us to suddenly not worry about it isn't making sense to many of us.

[Texaswitchy]

24. So right.

I am staying out of crowds.

No way to tell who had shots and who didn't.

I go out but I will protect myself.

[Biophilic]

28. Seems like a lot of us are doing that. Right now it is relatively easy for those of us

vaccinated to stay safe and stay well. I know, I'm thinking like a Democrat not a republican. Thank heavens for my friends and family.

[Ace Rothstein]

22. There probably won't be a surge due to immunity.

Between the vaccinated and the large number of cases we've had there just aren't enough hosts for the virus to grow exponentially.

[Texaswitchy]

26. I hope so.

Hope you are correct.

We will know in a few months.

[Takket]

30. yeah the bridge is burned, there is no going back now

I am shocked they handled this the way they did: very poorly. They just burst out and announced this with no warning, and they have left a lot of local governments and businesses still concerned with the health and safety of their citizens/guests scrambling to figure out what to do next. I can't speak for every state but here in Michigan after the announcement the state health department said they were "evaluating" the new guidelines. Sounded to me like they were caught completely off guard by this, and if you want to encourage mask wearing, the CDC just kneecapped any credibility you have to say so.

The USA reported 40000 cases yesterday and 800 deaths which were both #3 in the world. I would be curious to now what metric the CDC looked at that said mask wearing was no longer a benefit to slowing the pandemic. and even if that metric exists, i would like to know why there seemed to be no effort at all to ease into this announcement hand in hand with state/local health departments.

[rockfordfile]

33. CDC is treading water

[Celerity]

36. I see classic cognitive dissonance running riot (NOT just on DU).

I find it so ironic that many (again NOT just on DU) who (correctly) used 'trust the science' as a guidepost, now want to toss the science in the bin because they do not like the science.

[beaglelover]

39. Exactly! It's head scratching behavior.

[Celerity]

42. It is only going to get worse I fear. I already see it happening, the aggression level from one side

is rising. I can see it causing a paradigmatic schism on this board. I hope it does not escalate to the point where true incommensurability is cemented in place and that in turn kneecaps fruitful dialogue and exchange.

[Texaswitchy]

41. I know what happening in India right now.

It is really terrible.

People are dieing in huge numbers.

They thought everything was ok.

It wasn't.

[Celerity]

43. A brief discussion on India, variants, spike protein substitutions, and variant-tweaked vaccines

The 3 variants (plus origin strain) in India are not some brand new, black swan event type of mutation. They share the ancestral spike protein substitution (D614G) that is a commonalty to all known mutations so far, PLUS they have the key spike sub (L452R) that they share with the 2 Californian strains. The latest current literature shows that none of the 4 Indian strains are so far as nasty as the South African B.1.351 variant. India was never 'ok', it was and is a 1.4 billion person living, breathing, filthy, massively poor, incredibly unhealthy petri dish, with a madman (Modi) for a leader. It always was a disaster waiting to happen.

SARS-CoV-2 Variant Classifications and Definitions

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/variant-surveillance/variant-info.html

Original Indian Strain B.1.617 Spike Protein Substitutions: L452R, E484Q, D614G

First Indian Variant B.1.617.1 Spike Protein Substitutions: (T95I), G142D, E154K, L452R, E484Q, D614G, P681R, Q1071H

2nd Indian Variant (the worst one there) B.1.617.2 Spike Protein Substitutions: T19R, (G142D), Δ156, Δ157, R158G, L452R, T478K, D614G, P681R, D950N

Third Indian Variant B.1.617.3 Spike Protein Substitutions: T19R, G142D, L452R, E484Q, D614G, P681R, D950N

South African Variant (the worst one on the planet so far found) B.1.351 Spike Protein Substitutions: D80A, D215G, Δ241/242/243, K417N, E484K, N501Y, D614G, A701V

Brasilian Variant P.1 Spike Protein Substitutions: L18F, T20N, P26S, D138Y, R190S, K417T, E484K, N501Y, D614G, H655Y, T1027I

UK Variant B.1.1.7 Spike Protein Substitutions: Δ69/70, Δ144, (E484K*), (S494P*), N501Y, A570D, D614G, P681H, T716I, S982A, D1118H (K1191N*)

First Californian Variant B.1.427 Spike Protein Substitutions: L452R, D614G

2nd Californian Variant B.1.429 Spike Protein Substitutions: S13I, W152C, L452R, D614G

The B.1.1.7, B.1.351, P.1, B.1.427, and B.1.429 variants circulating in the United States are classified as variants of concern.

To date, no variants of high consequence have been identified in the United States.

In laboratory studies, specific monoclonal antibody treatments may be less effective for treating cases of COVID-19 caused by variants with the L452R or E484K substitution in the spike protein.

L452R is present in B.1.526.1, B.1.427, and B.1.429.

E484K is present in B.1.525, P.2, P.1, and B.1.351, but only some strains of B.1.526 and B.1.1.7.

The Moderna variant-tweaked vax (mRNA-1273.351) we were given in the Karolinska Universitetssjukhuset experimental trial here in Stockholm is showing as high, or higher efficacy so far against all the main variants out there as it does against the legacy strains. This includes the Californian strains that are somewhat similar to the new Indian variants.

We got our immunity results back Thursday (from a draw draw 2 weeks after our 2nd vax dose We got the equivalent of the NIH Experimental Arm 2C I list below, and all 4 major immunity cohorts (B Cell, T Helper Cell, T Killer Cell, and Antibody counts) were off the charts.

We (my wife and I) had a robust discussion 2 of our experimental trial doctors about the Indian variants, and they said that so far, they fully expect a similar efficacy rate for the mRNA-1273.351 vaccine against them as the others (which is currently over 95% based off the latest data coming off the 2 weeks post-2nd jab blood draws.) They also said that if a tweaked (for the B.1.617.1 Indian strains) booster shot is needed, that it would be a super fast turn around to spin it up. Our tweaked vax was produced in a few WEEKS, soon after 18 December 2020, the date of the reporting of the variant by the SA governmental heath department.

mRNA vaccines are paradigm changers. I trust the science, I am living breathing proof of how quickly humans can now respond to viruses. I absolutely feel comfortable not wearing a mask. We caught the origin strain of COVID in April, 2020 despite masking and socially isolating. We were asymptomatic, we only found out as my firm had a some antibody tests done for us. Post infection, until the variants hit here in Stockholm, we did not wear masks, as we had full natural immunity in spades (remember we were and are in, a long study for natural immunity, for a year now, even after we got the new vax, we are still being monitored.)


https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04785144




this is from the Moderna US trials:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/950650




The bottom line is, if we, amongst the most protected (and protecting in terms of our body's functioning at a molecular level) people now on the planet (less than 500 of us, per our trial doctor's knowledge, running around on the globe with this new variant-tweaked vax coursing though our bodies), with our already high natural immunity from the original infection, and with our superb physical shape (multi-sport participation, including a shit tonne of running and biking and skiing/roller-skiing), youth (we are both 24yo), no children, zero comorbidities, etc etc ...... if WE, given that massively unique set of circumstances, are not able to go without a mask, no one is. I honestly believe that, and I do understand that we are ultra extreme examples, but being such, I can well and truly ask the question: If not us, who then?

We (especially us, due to the tweaked vax) are not passing COVID on to other people (per the CDC, and per a myriad number of doctors here we have had vigorous discussions with), as we will not shed virally even if exposed, so that rationale goes into the bin. The science absolutely backs this up so far.

All that said, the unvaxxed, children (only if unvaxxed), and people with underlying comorbidities/susceptibility (such as transplant patients, etc) SHOULD wear masks. That is the science as well. Those cohorts do not include us, so we are not bound by that.

[womanofthehills]

76. And now that variant B.1.617.2 is doubling every day in UK

And they have been on lockdown.

[Ms. Toad]

48. There is a difference between trusting the science -

and trusing the CDC.

I absolutely trust the science, which is why I reject this latest pronouncement by the CDC. It is inconsistent with the science. I'm not tossing the science, I'm tossing the CDC - whose track record (even 3 months into this administration) on COVID transmission is still a day late and a dollar short.

I'd find it amusing, if it weren't so sad and scary, that the same folks who insisted I was greatly exaggerating the concerns in January/February 2020, when I accurately predicted the course of the pandemic, are once again jumping on the train to claim the dangers are still being exaggerated.

[uponit7771]

63. Here's the article on the Data the CDC followed (link)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna932

Do you see anything off in what their using in regards to why they're lifting mask mandate?

I'm still of the mindset that it's better safe than sorry and we should wear mask to the end of the month, give masquerade a specific metric instead of some arbitrary announcement.

[Ms. Toad]

69. There are a number of issues with it.

First - the data was gathered in the current setting - one in which mitigation measures are still being taken.

If you are vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine, you are 95% protected (it doesn't work quite that way - but it is helpful to see the error in the CDC's reasoning). That means out of 20 exposures that would give an unvaccinated person COVID, only one will give you COVID. (For J&J, one out of four that would give an unvaccinated person COVID).

Whle we are still masking, still social distancing, still avoiding large indoor crowds (taking mitigation measrures), we are subjected to very few of those exposures. Once people feel free to abandon the mitigation measures, those of us who are vaccinated will reach that 20th expousre a heck of a lot faster than the data collected while mitigation measures are in place would indicate. 5% of 10 COVID-creating exposures (low becaue of the mitigation) is a heck of a less than 5% of 1000 COVID-creating exposures (high because all of the mitigation measures are being dropped).

So our personal risk goes up when, for example, Trader Joes says unvaccinated people can shop without masks - and, oh, by the way, it's on the honor system. My personal risk goes up June 2 when Ohio drops all health orders (no more masking, no more limits on gatherings, etc.) There will be a lot more breakthrough cases because we will be forced into more situations that would give an unvaccinated person COVID - and 5% of dramatically more expoosures is also dramatically more breakthrough cases.

And that only looks at their assessment of the personal risk to a single vaccinated person. It doesn't take into account that the variants impact children more (both infection and severity of infection) - and children under 12 are not yet eligible to be vaccinated. Again - currently our children are protected (solely) by the community mitigation efforts. Once those mitigation are removed - before children are permitted to be vaccinated - they will have no protection. Same for people who can't be immunized or - if immunized - cannot develop immunity. Their safety - and freedom from death or life-long consequences depends on taking community mitigation measures (For example. the heart damage that is being recorded in children in even asymptomatic cases ("Case studies also show MIS-C can strike seemingly healthy children without warning three or four weeks after asymptomatic infections" ) .

So, while there are flaws at the CDC's micro-view of the vaccinated person's risk - the most significant problem is that this new proclamaton is being perceived as permisson to remove mitigation measures across the board (both for vaccinated and *wink-wink" non-vaccinated people, as well) - and anyone with half a brain could have predicted it would be taken that way. The county board of health acted in reliance on it the day it was issued, by removing all mitigation measures in the county - citing the CDC's myopic verson of the science of transmission.

[uponit7771]

70. 👍🏾

[OnDoutside]

50. Well said.

[GoCubsGo]

52. Yup. It's all very disheartening.

[treestar]

58. True

Though on this end, it's a better safe than sorry approach. Or hyper-caution. Whereas with anti-vaxxer-maskers, it is risk-taking.

[uponit7771]

61. False equivalency, being over cautious is not the same as denying science

[Celerity]

65. Depends how the rejection is framed. I did not make a universal statement, thus there is no false

equivalency, as the cognitive dissonance of which I spoke most definitely does exist in more than a few cases (again not just on DU, of course).

That all said, obviously there are, atm, a shedload of people who still need to wear a mask, such as anyone that is still unvaccinated, children (until vaxxed, then if they have no underlying threats otherwise, they can bin the masks eventually) and then the people with comorbidities, especially immunodeficient folk, and transplant patients, etc etc.

I also can see, as I stated here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215431649#post42

this entire subject starting to rip this board apart. The signs are already there. Not good.

I would suggest a separate 'COVID Forum' be made, just like DU does with the Primaries, in order to confine the inevitable acrimony away from the rest of the daily events. I also highly doubt anyone will do so, thus it is what it is.

I myself am going to make this (hopefully) the last 'to mask or not to mask, that is question' thread in which I personally participate. I laid out in detail above ( https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215431649#post43 at the bottom of that) why I am making the choice I am making.

[Midwestern Democrat]

67. It's mind boggling. Frankly, the motivations of people who dismissed the seriousness of COVID were

much easier to understand - that was nothing new - people denying the danger of something to avoid having to do something they didn't want to do (i.e. wear a mask; quit smoking; wear a seat belt, etc). But the opposite confounds me - people denying the SAFETY of something in order to justify continuing to do something that you would think a typical person wouldn't WANT to do.

[womanofthehills]

75. Have you been following Dr Walensky, the CDC Director

She goes on Rachel’s show and says you cannot get the virus if you get the shots & then has to retract that the next day. What kind of person would do and say that? All the time while she is saying this the CDC released it got over 9000 reports of Vax breakthroughs. The CDC says the numbers of breakthroughs is much higher because these were reported to CDC and most are not reported. So, let’s see - breakthroughs are rising, Indian variants that might evade vaccinedhave arrived in US - great time to all take off your masks

[Celerity]

77. The Indian variants have enough commonality in spike protein substitutions to show that they

will almost certainly not 'evade' the mRNA vaccines, especially if another variant-tweaked vax (like mRNA-1273.351, which my wife and I have received in a trial here in Stockholm) is spun up. mRNA-1273.351 is already showing extremely robust efficacy across the board for all variants tested so far.

I go into some depth on it all here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215431649#post43

and why we, given our set of circumstances, are not going to mask anymore.

Like I said in that reply,

If not us, who, then?

You, of course, are free to do what you think is right for you.

[greenjar_01]

44. For goodness sake

[Bullfeathers]

49. Taking my mask off

is like asking me to not wear a seat belt. I don’t believe masks are going away. We (not speaking for everyone) will always wear a mask in certain situations. Like one of the posters said in using public transportation or getting on a plane. Just my 2 cents. Masks are here to stay

[róisín_dubh]

51. The CDC should probably have a look at the UK.

The India variant is here and spreading. Who the hell knows what we'll be dealing with over here in a few weeks. I'm fully vaccinated thanks to work, and I still wear a mask everywhere it's required (which is pretty much everywhere).

[Heart666]

53. Masks should have continued to be required for everybody (both vaxxed and unvaxxed) for at least

3 more months. Possibly as many as 6 more months.

I thought that Fauci and the epidemiologists were over the top last week when they were talking until masking until about next Mother’s Day. Truthfully, they were probably deliberately portraying the worst case scenario as the probable scenario, just so nobody would be disappointed if the worst case scenario happened.

But lifting masks now? Seriously?

[Celerity]

68. the science for fully vaxxed people no longer needing to mask save for very specific situs, is sound

welcome to DU

[Texaswitchy]

66. I get people wanting to get back to normal.

Normal for me is going out but wearing a mask.

I go places but take precautions.

We have gone to the beach several times.

Open places.

I have three kinds of masks and never thought it was so terrible to wear them.

The facts are there to many people yet without the shot.

A few more months for them to get them especially the kids would have been nice.

I hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[Voltaire2]

71. They couldn't persuade about 30% to begin with.

If this theoretical surge is from a new strain immune to current vaccines, those of us who did the right thing for a year will do that again as needed

If this theoretical surge is just among the willfully unvaccinated, what would be the point of the rest of us masking up?