Why the lifting of mask mandates *should* worry you....

[usedtobedemgurl]

We are not the party of I-Got-Mine-So-Fuck-You. Even if you are vaccinated, as I am, this should concern you. Do you have any friends or relatives with any risk factors??? Do you have any?

There are a lot of unvaccinated people out there. I remember a time when there was talk about hospitals being overwhelmed. There are medical people who have killed themselves, because it was that bad.

It is short sighted to say we are vaccinated, so the unvaccinated can take care of themselves. If this were a movie, Peter Parker would be muttering he got his. Later that week Aunt May would be going to the hospital for a heart attack, only to be turned away due to overcrowding and no facilities to help her.

There are enough unvaccinated people, I an truly afraid this is a scenario we will soon be facing. Just because you and your family are vaccinated, don’t feel smug. How will you feel when hospitals cannot handle the load? What happens when a vaccinated person is in dire need of an ER, either from a health problem or maybe a car accident? When will we truly understand, on both sides, we are all interconnected.

Today is two weeks since my second shot. I am fully vaccinated. I am still fearful for our country. This situation is a recipe for our hospitals being overrun. I know I have risk factors. I do not feel smug. I do not feel safe. I have been in more than one car accident where I needed medical care. Do not be mistaken, it will not only be the unvaccinated who suffer.

I hope this does not happen, but I see how many people got sick and died under mandatory masks. I cannot fathom that number will now go down. I fear our medical system could break under the strain. I fear vaccinated people will die, or suffer, even though it will not be a direct result of having COVID.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. I don't think the CDC are idiots and have modelled this out

And determined that enough are vaccinated that (at minimum) there's no longer a chance of hospitals being overrun.

[Dorian Gray]

57. I agree

I think we have PTSD from last year and it's going to take time to trust the science. But I don't think this administration would be encouraging us to lose the masks if it weren't scientifically sound.

[usedtobedemgurl]

64. I think they miscalculated....

Hospitals are being overrun. Patients are being sent elsewhere, even out of state.

[RegularJam]

2. Hospitals can and will be able to handle the load.

The only concern there is if a variant takes hold that that has zero immunity in contrast to the current strains.

"Do you have any friends or relatives with any risk factors??? Do you have any?"

That is not significant enough of a number to make a difference in CDC guidelines. It's similar to the those not wanting to wear masks claiming that there are preexisting conditions for some that don't allow them to wear them. Of course there are some but the overall number is so small as to not be significant.

"It is short sighted to say we are vaccinated, so the unvaccinated can take care of themselves."

No one has said that.

Let me know what area you live in and I'll keep you up to date on hospital capacity. It will ease your mind.

None of it is "smug," as you like to claim. There is no significant scientific justification for vaccinated persons to wear masks in most all situations.

Hospitals will not be overcrowded. I would say that chance is actually zero if society follows the CDC guidelines. But we know they won't. The chance is still slim to none without the introduction of a variant that falls outside of the current immunity of the virus.

[usedtobedemgurl]

65. I guess Delta reared its ugly head....

Hospitals are overwhelmed.

[Voltaire2]

3. The vax refusers can go fork themselves.

[Ms. Toad]

47. And the 0-11 year olds? And those who cannot be vaccinated

or cannot develop immunity?

We owe it to them to continue community mitigation efforts until it is reasonably save for the most vulnerable who - through no fault of their own - cannot be safe without our assistance.

[Voltaire2]

55. their situation is unchanged

In the not insane states all the schools and daycare workers are vaccinated or soon will be. Schools can continue to require masks as they deem appropriate. The CDC guidelines explicitly call for masks and distancing for unvaccinated people. Also, both pfizer and moderna are in the process of getting approvals for the U11 people.

A similar issue occurs in elder care, hospice care, clinics, and hospitals in general. Masks will continue to be required where they are necessary.

In the insane states the situation is exactly as it was prior to the CDC announcement.

[Dorian Gray]

58. My ten year old

will continue going to school wearing a mask. She will continue to take gymnastics and ballet wearing a mask. She will continue to play with her friends outdoors as much as possible, and indoors with a mask. We have a very small pod (but slightly growing) of people who we go unmasked around. My in-laws are vaccinated and choose to visit us and not wear masks, despite health issues. My parents, as well.

My brother's family won't vaccinate, so we do not spend time with them indoors at all. Outdoors, I prefer that we stay masked around them.

But I'm okay in general with them dropping masks if we go to the beach together this summer. (Not indoors, but outdoors.)

I think there is reasonable mitigation, but I also believe as numbers continue to come down (in NYC we are doing REALLY WELL!) it's natural to relax our guard and take advantage of the good news.

[Yavin4]

4. The 7-day moving average for Hospitalizations are down 15% from last week

And down 77.6% from its peak back in January of this year. This is while several states have already lifted all restrictions and have completely opened up their states. Since the vaccinations started last December, we have not see any surges in cases, hospitalizations, or deaths.

Your fears are not supported by the current data.

[Texaswitchy]

5. I am with you.

If this was 3 months from now I would think different.

Anyone who wanted a shot would have got it by then.

Now there are to many without shots.


I am 67 years old, I do not want even a mild case.

I think we will have a study case in a few months of who kept their masks on and who didn't.

Time will tell.

I have both my shots now.

[BannonsLiver]

6. Well you'll find you're in good company here

There are many who also believe they have some special insight that no one else has.

[usedtobedemgurl]

8. I do not believe I have any special insight....

I will not talk to you as you have talked to me.

[BannonsLiver]

17. Okay?

[usedtobedemgurl]

19. Okay! :)

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Fauci Said Yesterday...

..that the DATA show a vaccinated person to be a viral dead end.
Does your morally superior conclusion include that in the "I got mine" criticism?
I'm thinking not.

[usedtobedemgurl]

9. I am not talking about vaccinated people.

The point of my post is the unvaccinated people. I have seen people here say they are on their own. Some do not seem to care. I was only pointing out that if the virus goes on a rampage with the unvaccinated, we could inadvertently be affected - even if we do not get it, or maybe only a mild case.

[Voltaire2]

11. the people who have refused to get vaccinated

are on their own. They can always get vaccinated. Today. No Line. Nothing is stopping them. Most certainly my wearing a mask does nothing to help them, my not wearing a mask does nothing to hurt them.

Lucky for them those of us who masked up and got jabbed have beaten this pandemic down. We've flattened the curve. The data is clear. It is time to get back to normal.

[usedtobedemgurl]

20. It has nothing to do with you wearing a mask.

I am sorry if I was not clear. It is about vaccinated people becoming victims of overwhelmed hospitals and bring hurt by the situation. That is all.

[Voltaire2]

24. zero evidence that this is a possibility

the data is all going the other direction.

[uponit7771]

26. Can you point to non red state data where total mask mandates were lifted? tia

I ask for total mask mandates lifted because this is how the CDC's guideline is going to be treated by maskholes.

[Voltaire2]

32. that is a disingenuous argument

But here you go: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/05/17/massachusetts-reopening-restrictions-may-29-gov-charlie-baker/

Massachusetts will lift its remaining COVID restrictions on May 29, Memorial Day weekend, Gov. Charlie Baker announced Monday.
...
Massachusetts will be the last New England state to align with the new CDC mask guidance.

The governor said businesses are able to set their own rules for vaccinations or masks as they see fit.

And once more, I really don't care what the covidiots do. They aren't going to hurt me, I'm not going to hurt them. They can get vaccinated anytime that they choose to do so.

[uponit7771]

34. I don't trust red state governors and neither should the CDC so I don't accept their data

also

"They aren't going to hurt me", true their stupidity might not hurt the vaxed but it will affect us in a multitude of ways at minimum HC facilities.

People who are agreeing with the CDC are narrowed towards the individual vs community

I pray by mid June I'm wrong

[Voltaire2]

36. nope also a bad argument

"but it will affect us in a multitude of ways at minimum HC facilities."
- all the data has hospitalizations way down and going lower, despite the covidiot states lifting mask mandates months ago now.

"People who are agreeing with the CDC are narrowed towards the individual vs community"
- no we are deferring to the experts who are in turn using the data to guide policy.

You're already wrong and the data is clear about that.

[uponit7771]

38. 1. No one has pointed to non red state data that says this seeing the CDC has just recently

... changed mask guidelines.

- no we are deferring to the experts who are in turn using the data to guide policy.

None of the data CDC sites points towards community affect of their recent mask guidelines with so many maskholes in society

[Voltaire2]

39. The rates are falling in the states that lifted mandates months ago.

The states chock full of covidiots.

How are the widely vaccinated states going to do worse than those states?

[uponit7771]

42. Florida puts a positive spin on COVID-19 data, misleading the public on pandemic

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-positivity-rate-florida-explainer-20201014-tfho3kvw7jaabmlv2d7gwndgii-story.html

I don't trust red state data and neither should the CDC

There are few to none blue state data with totally lifted states.

I'll wait,

[Voltaire2]

43. Ok so lets go with the JHU data

as your article does.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/us/florida
last month:

New Deaths
1,745
Record high:
4,806 January, 2021

fatalities way down, despite re-opening.

New Cases
136,260
Record high:
398,062 January, 2021

New cases way down despite re-opening.

So what is your theory again?

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Can't Believe You're Serious

There are 120 million people far less likely to need emergency health care than at this time a year ago.
The potential burden on the system is that plus recently recovering infected folks.
The system didn't collapse 14 months ago when nobody was masked and most stuff was open as normal.
Reducing the potential impact on the HC system by 40% doesn't alleviate pressure there? To say that's the big concern is silly.
Next, those same 120 million people are no longer transmittance points. Probabilty of person to person transmittance has to fall as possible vectors are reduced.
Next, the CDC made this rec for those FULLY VACCINATED. So, this recommendation has nothing to do with the unvaccinated despite your attempt to conflate the 2.
Finally, there is a clear marketing element to this announcement which you appear to have missed. Will it work? Who knows, but it's worth trying to incentivize foot draggers.
As to the hard core deniers; they ARE on their own.

[dsc]

29. In practice this is an ending of the mask mandate for all not just vaccinated

Outside of states that have vaccine passports, New York is the only one I know of, this will be honor system only going forward.

[area51]

62. +1 n/t

[uponit7771]

28. You might want to P.S. your op with: please exclude vaxed from the equation this is exclusive to ...

... unvaxed because people aren't separating the two very well.

[Ms. Toad]

50. Actually, it does.

Fauci is talking about individual dead ends. The problem is that the CDC is assuming that unvaccinated people will follow the masking advice (even though they have already proven themselves incapable of it).

For dead ends to be protectve, there have to be a sufficent number of them to prevent the non-dead ends from continuing to propogate both the virus and more and more variants of it. We are nowhere near that level yet.

Ellen Foxman, MD, PhD, a Yale Medicine pathologist who is an expert in respiratory viruses, likens herd immunity to making the virus hit a “dead end.”

“If you are coughing and sneezing, and the droplets reach someone who is susceptible, then the virus will keep spreading,” Dr. Foxman says. “But if the virus reaches someone who has immunity, it is like hitting a wall. The virus can’t go any further.”

The percentage of the population that needs to be immune to attain herd immunity varies by disease and how contagious that disease is. Measles, for example, spreads so easily that an estimated 95% of a population needs to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. In turn, the remaining 5% have protection because, at 95% coverage, measles will no longer spread. For polio, the threshold is about 80%

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/herd-immunity

In other words, the CDC is focusing on the single vaccinated person (the single dead end) not on the community impact of this guidance (the quantity of dead ends needed to build herd immunity), taking into account the evidence of what happens when mask orders are lifted and we rely on the honesty/good will of the unvaccinated group.

[Devil Child]

10. No thank you, living a fear-based life doesn't seem healthy to me. n/t

[usedtobedemgurl]

13. Nothing about fear based at all.

Concern for medical workers? Possibly.

[Devil Child]

16. You asked for people to worry, worry is fear. Again, no thank you to that vibe.

I’d rather try to stay informed, grounded, and use caution as needed.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

12. Those vaccinated are showing to be a dead end for the virus.

They aren't spreading it. So, as long those that aren't vaccinated are wearing it, it should be good.

[usedtobedemgurl]

14. They have not worn it so far.

I hope they do. That would be great.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

21. It would be nice. But I, too, doubt it.

But lifting the requirement makes sense given what everything points to. I've seen that in the past weeks over 98% of positive tests have been exclusively unvaccinated people. That in addition to the vaccinated being a dead end points to lifting the mandate being a good thing.

[Marthe48]

15. One of my friends died in Dec

She had a heart problem, which was surgically treated, but the surgery was subpar, and she had complications. The hospital she was in was overwhelmed with Covid patients, my friend did not get proper care or treatment. And she died.

I am already worried about what will happen when selfish bastards fill up the beds, wear out the medical professionals, and use up finite resources, because they didn't want to wear a mask.

You are exactly right when you point out we are all interconnected. I am fully vaccinated, as is my family and close friends. Yet, I can't shrug my shoulders and think 'C'est la vie', because anti-mask, anti-maskers aren't keeping the hazards to themselves.

Thanks for posting.

[usedtobedemgurl]

18. Thank you for your story.

I am really sorry for your friend. I hope we all do not learn about interconnectivity the hard way.

A concern long behind this one is scientists (yes, I am listening to science) say the longer COVID stays out there, the more chance for variations. If we get a nasty one, one that is not fought with our vaccination, we are all back to square one. But that is a distant concern. That is a what if sort of thing. When and if it happens, then you can figure it out.

Our recent history shows hospitals overwhelmed. As much as many people have dismissed what I have said, none have offered a reason why it would not happen again.

MSNBC had a segment on where Target stores in one area have removed mandatory masks. I think we are in for a big surprise.

[Texaswitchy]

23. I hope we are wrong.

I hope by September everything is back to normal as possible.
I do not like crowds to begin with, never did.
Time will tell.

[beaglelover]

22. You can continue to live in fear if you wish.

My husband and I are fully vaccinated and are resuming a normal lifestyle without masks. We follow the science.

[uponit7771]

27. The science says unvaxed will get and spread virus

[beaglelover]

30. True. They should get vaxed.

[uponit7771]

31. True, when they don't they affect the vaxed in multiple ways which can be prevented

[Voltaire2]

44. no they don't.

they don't infect us and they aren't going to overwhelm the ICUs.

[uponit7771]

45. They don't have to overwhelm the ICUs and covid-19 spread amongst the unvaxed will increase

.... Bottom line is there isn't solid data for US community environment for what the CDC guidelines call for.

Taking data from a country where most of the people are on board is not relevant to our situation here in the US.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong if that's the case

[Voltaire2]

48. there is very solid data for the us environment

we know that the risk of infection or of spreading for the vaccinated is near zero.

[uponit7771]

54. Red state data should not be trusted

[Voltaire2]

56. The CDC, Johns Hopkins, and others are using their own data collection processes

and are not relying on official state data.

You are now down to denying the data. Take a step back and consider that.

[uponit7771]

59. This is false on its face, the CDC is relying on data from states. Why go this far? tia (link)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/about-us-cases-deaths.html

CDC reports COVID-19 case counts, deaths, and laboratory testing numbers daily online. Data on the COVID-19 website and CDC’s COVID Data Tracker are based on the most recent numbers reported by states, territories, and other jurisdictions. Data are dependent on jurisdictions’ timely and accurate reporting.

[Voltaire2]

60. well ok, we all see what we want to see.

"For surveillance of COVID-19 and its cause, SARS-CoV-2, in the United States, CDC is using multiple surveillance systems run in collaboration with state, local and territorial health departments, public health, commercial and clinical laboratories, vital statistics offices, health care providers, emergency departments and academic partners to monitor COVID-19 disease in the United States."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/surveillance-data-analytics.html

So we can both cherry pick our CDC sources. You earlier cited JHU data as confirmation that the CDC was underreporting, but as I noted the JHU data confirms the CDC conclusions regarding vastly reduced infection and hospitalization rates even in the covidiot states.

[uponit7771]

61. Ummm, no ... you made a PROVABLE false statement and gas lighting works with the M$M and

... MAGA Minions not here.

Why go that far?

Come on people

I don't trust the data from Red States saying for instance today they have ZERO deaths from COVID ... REALLY !?!!?

We'll see after mid June I think that's objective and reasonable

[CentralMass]

33. I find your attitude on this be insulting. I am fully vaccinated and will continue to mask

Indoors in public place and outdoors in crowds. It has nothing to do with fear. It to me is common sense. I think the CDC's shift was premature. It takes a level of arrogance to quote statistic on a dynamic health issue like this one to be so sure that your opinion is the only one.

[Voltaire2]

37. ok what is the 'common sense'?

behind masking "Indoors in public place and outdoors in crowds." ?

The data is clear about the vaccinated: both indoors and outdoors we do not spread covid nor are we at risk of getting covid. So what is this 'common sense'?

[uponit7771]

46. Common sense would be to look at credible relevant COMMUNITY data, there is none

[beaglelover]

40. Fine then wear masks but don't criticize other fully

Vaccinated people who will no longer wear them. The science says we don’t have to.

[Happy Hoosier]

35. At this point.... it's on them.

Vaccines are available to anyone who wants one.

I can;t stop people from being idiots. I've sacrificed a lot over the last year+. Most of us have. I'm done bending over backwards for idiots who refuse to help themselves. Fuck 'em.

[beaglelover]

41. YES! This 100%!

[Lars39]

49. I understand what you are saying.

I know my doctor and nurses are stressed beyond belief. Only time will tell whether there are enough unvaxxed to keep the pandemic going and mutating, and to overwhelm the hospitals again. I could easily see it happening in parts of the red states. The unvaxxed do like to gather in crowds.

[Elessar Zappa]

51. You make some good points but

I doubt that our hospital systems will be overrun again, unless a variant emerges that dodges the vaccine, which hasn’t happened yet.

[SoonerPride]

52. The data suggests your worries are unfounded

Seriously.

The unvaccinated will only affect themselves.

Their impact on those who have been vaccinated will be statistically non existent.

[mvd]

53. Well I am keeping mine on just to be safe

The stores of course will have unvaccinated people without masks because it is hard to prove vaccination. I may even wear it in the winter months to also prevent colds, flu, etc.

[jcgoldie]

63. The point of the guideline isn't "I've got mine fuck everyone else"

The point I think a lot of people are missing is that not only have they found the vaccine 94 or 95% effective protecting you but also at least that effective at keeping you from spreading it. In other words you are extremely unlikely to get it and if you do, you are even less likely that its severe or that you spread it whether the next guy is vaccinated or not. That being the case and people who are unvaccinated are unwilling to mask up anyway then what is the point of maintaining mask mandates?