General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn 10 Years A Gas Powered Car Will Make As Much Sense As A Horse Drawn Carriage
And in 5 years they will have batteries that are just insane. An iPhone that charges in 10 seconds. Car batteries 7 times more powerful than what we have now. Those may take a little longer, but I have read about a few new technologies. Silica, and aluminum etc.
We don't need no stinkin' oil.
Or war for oil.
Or Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, or Venezuela scum getting rich off our oil addiction.
multigraincracker
(32,719 posts)They never really went away. I live near Amish Country.
Buckeyeblue
(5,502 posts)jimfields33
(15,954 posts)JanMichael
(24,890 posts)Then ground water pollution...
As for cars then we still have tires...https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2020/1109/A-pollution-solution-where-the-rubber-meets-the-road
And brakes...https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-01/urai-bda010720.php
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)They definitely pollute more than a modern car.
jimfields33
(15,954 posts)Blanks
(4,835 posts)I have horses. Yes, they shit, but horse manure is a really good fertilizer. They also eat grass, theyre better for the planet than lawn mowers. As a means of transportation, they cant compete with cars, but the potential to provide a benefit to modern society is still there. Sadly, weve kind of crowded them out of a lot of places.
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)But imagine replacing all the cars with horses. It would not be an environmental win me thinks.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)That doesnt mean they arent an important species. I like having them in my yard, they cost less to keep than a new car payment and full coverage insurance, but I work from home, they get out, run the neighborhood, that wouldnt work if I was away at the office all day.
You cant even replace a lawn mower completely with them, but they will reduce the number of times you have to mow and the grass is really green year round. Much greener than lawns that are mowed all the time.
They arent a reliable means of transportation on highways, theyre not even allowed.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)by Ben Johnson
By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were drowning in horse manure. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.
In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.
{SNIP}
This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on Londons streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.
Each horse also produced around 2 pints of urine per day and to make things worse, the average life expectancy for a working horse was only around 3 years. Horse carcasses therefore also had to be removed from the streets. The bodies were often left to putrefy so the corpses could be more easily sawn into pieces for removal.
More: https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)That is why a good plug-in hybrid like the RAV4 Prime is garnering $10k above sticker, if you can find one on dealer lots. People want electic, but need a gas engine too. A plug-in hybrid gives you the best of both worlds: it drives like an EV around town for 40 miles or so. But if you have to hit the highway for a long jaunt or road trip, you have the hybrid engine to rely on, so that you're not tied to your home charging station.
EV charging times are still way too long to be practical. Most take many hours to charge the battery, usually overnight. Charging stations are unreliable, often out of order, and are run by a hodgepodge of entities, each requiring you to get their own charge cards that only work at their particular stations, with customer service so bad it makes the cable companies look good. I have an electric car (Chevy Bolt) and the range anxiety sucks. I have to rent a gas car every rime I want to go on a road trip, or more than 75 miles from home. After 2 years of this torture, I'm done. I plan to get a RAV4 Prime as my next car....if I can find one.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)In 10 years outages of gas and electric will be very frequent.
Disruptions in supplies are increasing faster than battery capacity.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article251453633.html
There are also episodes of gas outages after hurricanes and other natural disasters. Of course, some of those also disrupt electricity.
But generally, the reliability of both the supply of electricity and gasoline appear to be decreasing rapidly.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)My beach town here in Southern California has power outages several times a year, sometimes for days at a time, when one of our aging transformers blows. It happens so often we bought a generator to power our fridge when the power is out.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)Which Toyota abandoned to push the RAV4. We both prefer the smaller Prius V. The RAV is larger than we need and harder to park and not as efficient. (If we need a larger SUV, we have our 1999 GMC Suburban - absolutely not gas efficient (at 13 mpg) but we seldom need it any more, so mostly it just sits.)
While we really like the hybrid, I worry about the longevity of the batteries. We had a 2006 Prius and replaced the batteries three times - refurbished batteries packs in which single cells would go bad. After the third replacement, when the batteries went bad, it fried the computer. It would have cost significantly more than the car was worth to replace the computer and the batteries, so when a mechanic at the dealer's offered to buy it, we sold it.
A friend has had the same problem with his Prius V - buying refurbish battery packs that went bad. In his case, the company that was supplying the battery packs was shut down by the state for deceptive practices.
The most recent car I bought was a Honda Fit - smaller than the Prius V, all gas but gets the same mileage. For now, until the batteries improve, I will stick with an ultra efficient gas vehicle.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)New batteries are terribly expensive, but the only way to go if you want to keep the car.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)When the batteries wear out in the Prius V. My husband loves that car and since we can't get another one, we'll keep it on the road as long as possible.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)I put 256,000 miles on that peppy little thing and it just kept going, until my 17 year old totaled it.
Toyota knows how to build reliable cars. Chevy sure as hell doesn't. My 2019 Chevy Bolt only has 20,000 miles, and during that time the front suspension had to be replaced, the rear axle had to be replaced, and the EV battery had a recall over fires during charging. Chevy can't even make a reliable EV, even though EVs are innately reliable, simple power trains. I never had to replace the suspension or rear axle (or even the transmission!) on my Vibe/Matrix during the 256k miles that I had it.
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)Tesla charging network is extensive and fast and you can get just about anywhere in the US.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)They're really only at major thoroughfares, not in every other corner as well as in the boonies like gas stations. Also, we get power outages in my neighborhood all the time. You can't be sure your car will be charged when you get up in the morning. I tried to make it work, but even in Southern California where we have the most charging stations in the country, you can't rely on them working or not already having a car charging there. It makes road trips a crap shoot. That's why I'm getting a PHEV when my Bolt lease runs out in a year.
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)The boonies are still pretty thin on charging. I take a portable level 2 charger with an RV (NEMA) plug and plug in at RV parks if needed. I usually don't need it, but when I do, I just put in enough to get back out and to a normal fast charger.
Rivian is starting up an adventure charging network. They're starting in Colorado by putting in Level 2 at all the major trailheads. They're also installing fast chargers for their own vehicles. If you're going on a hike, plug in at the trailhead and go hike. You'll have enough to get out when you return in a few hours.
So, yes, there are still growing pains, but they are being addressed. In 3-5 years, it's not going to be much of an issue.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)Until then, it'll be a PHEV.
Glad to hear Rivian is putting in fast chargers, but why can't these fucking car manufacturers drop the territorialism and make the plugs and chargers universal? Why is Rivian using a different plug than Tesla? And why is Tesla using a different plug than Chevrolet? So fucking frustrating. Every gasoline pump fits in every gasoline car's filler opening. Why can't the same hold true for electric chargers and electric cars?
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)They use the same connectors as your Bolt and every other US car. Tesla is the only one using their own standard.
The Rivian-only fast chargers are simply software-locked to their cars. They can be opened to other vehicles later if it makes sense for them. It's more of a sales/marketing decision than anything.
The Rivian level 2 chargers will be open to anyone.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)There are a ridiculous 9 different types of EV plugs. https://evcharging.enelx.com/resources/blog/552-ev-charging-connector-types
Why? Same reason Rivian won't let others use their plugs: "sales/marketing." In other words, short-sighted greed.
These idiots need to all get together and make the plugs and chargers universal. Otherwise, they're going to continue to lose people like me.
If EV companies can't put planet over money, who can?
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)The slower 50kw fast charge rate means you'll be spending a lot longer than most at the charger on road trips.
Newer EVs charge approx 3-5 times faster. That's the difference between a 15-20 min charging stop vs a 60+ min stop for the Bolt.
I looked at the RAV4 Prime, but went with the VW ID.4 all-electric instead. Brilliant car, charges quickly, and has been great so far on road trips.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)While it takes about nine hours to fully charge my Bolt's 238-mile range battery using a 240-volt outlet (what I have at home), the fast-charging option my car has can add roughly 90 miles of range every 30 minutesprovided a Level 3 charging station is available and working where I'm going. In my 2 years of experience with my Bolt so far, it never is. Either there were no fast chargers where I was going, or if there were, they were not working, or already had cars parked at them.
The 2021 VW ID.4 does not have substantially better specs than my 2019 Bolt.
Heres how fast each type can juice the ID.4 up to its 250-mile range:
Level 1 (120V outlet) 0-100% estimated 50 hours
Level 2 (240V outlet) 0-100% EPA-estimated 7.5 hours
Level 3 (DC fast charging) 0-80% EPA-estimated at 38 minutes
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34114103/2021-vw-id4-revealed/
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)Very few people commute outside of my Volt's range. If I need to go further, I just drive on gas like a hybrid. Easy peasy.
I still use electric about 98% of the time.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)ZonkerHarris
(24,254 posts)through Central Park.
I'm originally from the area and was like "That's for tourists"
She was like "thats what we are"
I guess I am now, I thought to myself.
It was a lovely ride and time
I'd do it again if we went back
Raine
(30,540 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)But I suspect it will be longer than the 10 years you suggest.
Buckeyeblue
(5,502 posts)The question is, will it? I think we'll see some hybrid technology that really blows the doors off MPGs that we currently see. And we'll see continual improvement of EV technology. Gas stations will lead the way to effective charging stations.
Things have changed a great deal in the last 10 years. I would expect that they will continue.
Not all good. Technology has given a boost to White Nationalists. They've been able to organize and grow like never before.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I just dont see internal combustion engines all gone in the next ten years.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Jon King
(1,910 posts)No such thing as a electric jumbo jet, so need oil for that. Cargo ships....ain't gonna be electric. Need to generate all the electricity to charge the electric cars, so need oil for a good portion of that. Many houses need oil for heat. Most personal care products have petroleum based ingredients. Petroleum based products are in almost everything we use today.....plastics, clothing fibers, and on and on. Poor people in the city who use one $500 clunker after another to get to work? How will they afford their electric car? Where will they charge it within 10 years?
Also, what do you propose the millions and millions of regular people who live in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela do to survive with no petroleum revenue?
30% of our oil usage (and even more emissions) is gasoline. When autos start to transition it will make everything crash so those areas that rely on gas extraction better be working out their problems now or see WV.
Also, in the US oil based fuels are not commonly used for electric generation on a utility wide scale.
Celerity
(43,500 posts)I guarantee they will try and force their continued production as the rest of the advanced world assigns them to the dustbin of history. I think as the 2030's and 2040's roll by the US will become a global renegade pariah state in terms of AGW and carbon fuel use. It is going to be, in a way, like guns, until the US shuts down all the petrol stations. How else do you stop tens upon tens of millions of 'gas guzzle and pollute TILL I DIE to own the libs' lunatics? They will bitterly cling to the petrol fuelled cars even though no new ones are being made (unless the RW somehow forces their production).
jimfields33
(15,954 posts)The yelling that life was over ended when everyone saw how great LEDs were. Same with electric cars. It will cause some noise until everyone sees how great they are. Nobody particularly likes change. But once initial apprehension is over, it becomes mainstream.
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)If you can get an electric F150 that is twice as fast and costs a third as much to operate, why would you stick with gas?
Perhaps demand will be driven by the same people who hang on to their 1970's classics, but they are a small minority. Most people just want a car that is capable and easy to use.
Captain Zero
(6,823 posts)Not needing to bomb the oil-rich into submission.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)that have Cobalt etc.
Which happens to be some of the same countries that have oil.
DFW
(54,437 posts)Nowadays, we don't own them. They own us.
Wounded Bear
(58,709 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)Funny and scary at the same time.
Trailer -
DFW
(54,437 posts)But from the trailer, it looks to be exactly what you described.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)How long will the batteries last before they degrade to such a degree that they need to be replaced? How easy is it to recycle spent batteries?
I believe the Tesla takes about 20 minutes to recharge using dc fast. How many recharge stations will be necessary to support a complete transition to electric?
The electricity to support the electric vehicles needs to be generated somehow. What will that source be.
ICE vehicles will be around for some time.
Personally, I think electric cars will end up to be a transitional vehicle. Hydrogen fuel cell cars or something like that will probably be the better model. I would think a national mass transit system also should be a worthy goal
MissB
(15,812 posts)I have a house, so I can install a level 2 charger (6-8 hours of charge time). I havent done so yet as the charge station manufacturer hasnt delivered it (came free with my car). Theyre back ordered at least another month.
In the meantime, Ill have a 220 outlet wired in, but like many trades these days an electrician is unavailable until mid June.
While waiting for one of the above, I can simply plug my car into a standard outlet. It takes a long time to charge, but its already a habit to pull into the garage, get out and plug the car in before going into the house. Driving around town doesnt use much charge so gaining a percent or two of charge via a standard plug in an hour or two doesnt matter.
The cars battery is under an 8-year warranty, so I expect thats about the useful life. I live in a state with hydroelectric and wind generation, and plenty of each. Electricity is cheap and the huge river isnt drying up anytime soon. Im guessing the gorge will still have plenty of wind.
If everyone switched over to electric this year then there would be huge infrastructure problems. But thats not happening, even with the $10k between federal and state tax credits. I dont think everyone is going to make that shift- cars are still expensive and folks in apartments are going to be left out of this option. Gas powered cars will be with us for a long time. I still have one of those too and probably will for a long time.
JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)to the ICE. I would not feel comfortable going long distance with an all electric car at this time for multiple reasons.
When I am driving locally I have no need for gasoline, and could drive months on all electric.
I believe the Tesla warranty is 50000 miles or 8 years on the battery. A lot of people keep their cars 10 years or longer, so I would hope the battery would be viable for at least 10 year and 100000 miles, otherwise I think it will be cost prohibitive.
While I agree with your first hand experience and insights, I am skeptical that 10 years is realistic goal to stop all ICE production.
Also, I have questions if the batteries are recyclable, and what is the source of how the electricity for the charging infrastructure will be generated
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)tinrobot
(10,916 posts)With hydrogen, you'd still need to go to the equivalent of a gas station to refuel. Those stations are expensive, and unless there's huge public investment, not economically feasible. The few hydrogen cars here in California have a handful of refuel stations in the cities. There's nothing outside the cities, so road trips are impossible.
With batteries, the infrastructure has been in place for a century. They're called wall outlets, and every building already has them. You can plug in at home, work, wherever. The convenience of leaving the house every day with a full "tank" is liberating.
Outside the home, you can use fast charging to get range quickly. Here in Los Angeles, there's fast chargers at every city owned lot, every Walmart, some gas stations, and gobs of other places. We already have the US interstates covered coast to coast in fast chargers, so you could do road trips as well. Still, there's a lot of infill that needs to happen, but the snowball is already rolling. No way hydrogen can catch up at this point.
ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)...if you had said 25 years.
There are people right now with brand new cars.
In 10 years these will be cars with 130,000 miles on them, and if the original owner doesn't still drive it, somebody will be.
So in 10 years, it will still make sense to own a gas powered car.
But, after a couple of car generations, I think you're right.
brooklynite
(94,728 posts)(and my niece is still driving it).
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)The only caveat is that with the amount of electronics in new cars, they may not be repairable in a decade or two due to the unavailability of the types of chips currently being used.
ProfessorGAC
(65,168 posts)Since the age of some cars is zero, there has to be loads of cars much greater than 10 years old to offset. So, I think the 10 years in the OP is too short.
I'm not convinced on chip replacement in 10 years, though.
There's a low inventory carrying cost on things like that. (They take up very little space, unused they have an indefinite shelf life, and initial cost is not high for a capital intensive operation like auto manufacture.)
Now, if we're talking about my "almost classic" Sebring convertible (1998 with 33,000 miles) and we go 10 years out, I'm sure you're correct.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)a petroleum product or whether it is powered by batteries. An electric car will put out much less emissions but they won't be a cure all because producing their batteries will take energy and potentially cause emissions to our atmosphere..
JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)You could potentially move toward alternative energy sources to produce the electricity for charging those vehicles, but that will require changes from the way it is generated now, and that takes time to build also
Another question what is the process for recycling the batteries? Does that use energy for the recycling?
I would like to think we also could build our mass transit system nationally like we did the interstate highway system, and I would like to see other avenues explored like hydrogen fuel cells
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)SKKY
(11,822 posts)...I intend to drive it until the wheels fall off, and then purchase an electric car. I fully expect my options for a car with an internal combustion engine to be few, and far between. And I'm perfectly fine with that.
Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)I am hoping it lasts me another 17 years.
SKKY
(11,822 posts)Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)Needed to replace some things due to age, but other then that I am hoping it lasts me a long time.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)We don't yet even make electric vehicles that can replace all gas powered ones today.
We have a pickup truck from one or two manufacturers promised. Those are still years out.
It'll take 15 years of full on production to just to replace the current fleet.
You are right. It's just that 10 years is crazy fast.
Closer to 30.
Towlie
(5,328 posts)
←
... and in ten years nobody will recall that I made these predictions and call me out for being wrong.
Oneironaut
(5,524 posts)If time travelers were to go back in time and give ancient civilizations the ability to create time machines, and going with the belief that there is only one timeline, why is all technology not understood instantly?
Example - Someone from the year 5000 comes back to our present day and teaches us all of the technological advancements theyve learned in the future 3000 years ahead. This allows us to build a time machine, and then go back to the year 50 AD and give them all of our knowledge. Then, those people can go back to year 500 BC, and so on.
bullwinkle428
(20,630 posts)in America would be out of a job within a very short time frame, as the result of self-driving trucks. Fast forward to today, and there are more openings for truck drivers than ever before.
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)because Tesla was working on an electric semi
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)BSdetect
(8,999 posts)Technology is developing faster than most of us can appreciate.
BEVs are already cheaper than ICE vehicles when you factor in all costs such as maintenance.
With Tesla's FSD about to come in insurance costs will plunge too.
The staggering cost of accidents will fall gradually.
It's not just deaths but serious injuries and repairs.
JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)charging stations that dont take hours to charge
As for the FSD, that is not ready for prime time yet.
Instead of more cars what we need is a national mass transit system
Shanti Shanti Shanti
(12,047 posts)JohnSJ
(92,396 posts)it is more like an hour or more
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)In retrospect, the amount of progress in the cars and the charging networks is astounding. And progress has been accelerating, particularly in the past 18-24 months.
The next 10 years will make gas cars look like 8-track tapes in terms of practicality. We're getting very close to a tipping point where EVs are easier/cheaper to use than gas cars. The will happen by 2025, and after that, gas cars will fade away very quickly.
lame54
(35,321 posts)bello
(100 posts)While I plan on buying an EV in the near future, my buying habits dont fit well with an all electric model within ten years.
I want an EV because our car is getting on the oldish side an EV would not only provide cheap transportation, it would function as a whole house battery if I also bought a smart vehicle-to-grid charger/controller.
Okay, Im doing well so far, but...
I also buy a new truck once every 25 years, whether I need it or not. And I just bought a new internal combustion engine truck three years ago.
Sigh. At least I dont drive the trucks many miles per year.
-B
Silent3
(15,266 posts)...there will be a place for gas powered vehicles. As long as we can make that a small niche the environmental impact we be small from keeping gas/diesel engines around.
Many military vehicles will remain gas for the foreseeable future, or a gas/electric hybrid. It's not like you can count on charging stations on a battlefield.
Serious "off-roading" will be better served by gas or gas/electric hybrids for some time.
In the many sparsely-populate areas of our country between the coasts (AKA fly-over country) charging stations might not reach practical availability for quite a while.
I think my own Chevy Volt is a great solution, and it's sad Chevy has discontinued it. I suppose that's a matter of cost. however, since the one vehicle has to be fully an electric car and a gas-powered car at the same time. I run electric around 95% of the time, but don't suffer from "range anxiety", because gas is always ready to kick in.
I went for a stretch of time using so little gas that I had to deliberately disable electric drive for a while to burn off the gas in my tank before it went stale, since I hadn't filled up in nearly a year.
One has to be cautious about viewing abundant "fast charging" stations as a complete solution for long-distance driving. "Fast" in this case is still slow compared to pumping gas, but more important, fast-charging is rough on the lifespan of battery packs. Without technical improvements in the current process, you wouldn't want fast-charging to be a routine part of your commute, or else you'll be needing expensive battery replacement sooner than you'd like.
Shellback Squid
(8,926 posts)Polybius
(15,476 posts)I call BS on 10 second iPhone charges in 5 years. But, I want to be wrong and will admit it if I am.
LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)I recently bought a new truck; I figure I will get about ten years out of it before I make the switch to electric. I want it more widespread first. California is certainly trying to help in that department.
Zeitghost
(3,868 posts)When California has a functioning power grid and rolling blackouts aren't a regular occurance in the summer.
hardluck
(640 posts)My power went down 8 times between Thanksgiving and MLK day each time for at least 1-2 days due to high winds. Fix that and then we can talk.
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)I don't think we've ever had one.
But, yeah, it sucks to be a PG&E customer.
Oh, and with many EVs, you can use it as a power bank to get you through those damn blackouts.
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)In 10 years, most cars on the road will still burn fossil fuel. In 20, maybe half will be electric. Maybe.
You're too optimistic, I think, timing-wise.
Jose Garcia
(2,605 posts)Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)But did you have a point?
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)It's going to a long time to tear down 241 coal plants, and replace them with something new.
Then it takes about 15 years to put up a new plant. Plus we need to massively increase the number of power plants.
That's a lot of work in 10 years.
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)The coal plants will phase out over time, but it would be a complete disaster if the increased demand from EVs is met by building new fossil fuel plants.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Enough energy to drive 32 miles with an electric vehicle.
Remove the energy consumed by merely refining the gasoline, put it back into the system for electric vehicles, and you will be reducing the carbon output by half, even if you still produce electricity with fossil fuels.
Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)Heck, most days I wish I had a horse and carriage so I could leave the house even when I have no gas.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)If you want all electric. Even seen used used Teslas in the 20K range.
Price an ice full-sized truck these days!
Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)I'm disabled and on a small fixed income. An electric car will most likely be out of the reach of poor people for a very long time.
Paladin
(28,272 posts)Great feature on this on Rachel's show, last night.
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)There will be a market for it, but it's not going to be the flagship of the American highway anytime soon.
Elessar Zappa
(14,047 posts)Thats a damn good deal but still out of reach for many.
iemanja
(53,066 posts)Gas cars will be circulation for quite some time.
ansible
(1,718 posts)Nobody ever cares about this.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)You need.
That 500 beater will eat your lunch
Me, I change oil in my Volt about once a year just because and had one minor problem since 2011.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)I honestly don't know.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)Inflation... that car is probably 1-3K now.
Older electrics tend to hold value because as long as they are running they are pretty much completely reliable. There is no in-between with electrics. Plus, the parts are worth more.
I have seen Nissan Leafs go as low as 2-3K
All car markets are not the same for electrics at moment. DFW is an electric MECCA. Teslas are everywhere here.
Florida, when I visit on the other hand, has very few.
This also affects pricing.
lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)It will be a conversation piece if nothing else.
lame54
(35,321 posts)Niagara
(7,659 posts)In the early 1900's, the U.S. consumer had a choice from electric, gas-powered or steam vehicles. At that time, the highest selling vehicle was the gas powered vehicle. It seems that all the vehicle manufactures went towards with what the consumers wanted to buy.
I'm neither for or against electric vehicles, but we still have to be aware of the environmental damage from the production of electric vehicles as well. To believe that they're better for the environment at this time isn't true at all, each step into producing one has a negative impact on our environment. Perhaps as we make progress, it won't always be so.
This video was made a little over a year ago, it will explain the current environmental impact starting at the 1:33 mark.
I would be exciting to have the same exact car ride Jay Leno's 1909 Baker electric car. The car makes an appearance starting at the 3:00 mark.
&t=180s
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)by the price and availability of whatever powers them. If 90% of gas stations disappear and gas is $20 a gallon, people will not want gas powered cars. If our power grid is decaying and blackouts are common and charging stations are scarce and costly to use, people will not want electric cars.
And all of those things can be manipulated by our government and our power companies. Our choice of transportation will not necessarily be what we want, but what is made most economical and available. Hopefully, it will be an improvement over what we have now, both economically and ecologically.