The Lies Cops Tell and the Lies We Tell About Cops

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://newrepublic.com/article/162510/cops-lie-public-safety-defund-the-police

Cops lie about how hated they are. Even amid the rebellions of 2020, police remained surprisingly popular. Although the percentage ticked down a bit from four years earlier, the Pew Research Center found last July that over half of Americans viewed police favorably. You wouldn’t know this if you listen to the rants of police union leaders, however. Or if you shop online for Blue Lives Matter gear. Or if you swipe right when a man in blue appears on your dating app. Last summer, as police assaulted protesters—shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground, blinding a journalist with a foam bullet, tear-gassing a toddler—they produced a counternarrative of growing danger: Their milkshakes were being poisoned; it was no longer safe to order at the drive-thru. The threat was everywhere. Claiming to be hated for ensuring public safety reinforces the idea that critics are malcontents or sociopaths.

(snip)

Cops lie about dangers they face. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, police officer ranks sixteenth among the 30 most dangerous jobs. No one should die at work, and by number of deaths per 100,000, sanitation workers and landscapers work much more dangerous jobs.

(snip)

Cops lie to make arrests. They may lie about why they stop someone. Many traffic stops are “pretextual,” meaning the traffic violation is the entry point as an officer intends to gather information or conduct a search. Daunte Wright was killed by a police officer in a Minneapolis suburb in April. The pretext for his stop: expired registration tags.

(snip)

Cops lie about what they must do. In fact, cops don’t have to do anything (as the Supreme Court affirmed in 2005). The irreducible essence of policing is not law enforcement itself but discretion over which laws to enforce, over how to achieve order. Discretion is the ability to decide in the moment whether to act, and how. Will arrest or citation solve a situation of disorder? What about bullets or tear gas? Cops emphasize that they are forced to make split-second decisions. That may be true, but racism often predetermines the outcome. Testilying creates the post-hoc rationalization for discretionary decisions made on the street to fashion order and enforce control.

[Walleye]

1. Even good cops lie. It's absolutely the number one skill. They lie even when they don't have to.

[marble falls]

3. I've known a lot of cops, including an ex-BiL who still is a cop - 6'-2" and the hat size of a ...

four year old - in Provo, Utah. Most of them cheated on their wives, the few that graduated from my class in HS seemed more likely to end up in prison as assaulters, liars and petty thieves before they joined the force, and seemed more likely to be confined after they joined the Akron PD.

My BiL once handcuffed another BiL to a dining room table for an hour as a joke and refused to release him getting angry at the whole family for not being able to take a joke. The only reason he released him was someone else went and got a pair of hydraulic rod cutters.

[jaxexpat]

12. Yeah, casual sadism is not a beneficial social skill. Though some rely on it for acknowledgement.

[marble falls]

13. They run with their long suit.

[snowybirdie]

2. Its never

good to generalize so broadly.

[marble falls]

4. Why would courts allow them to lie to suspects if they weren't generally lying?

[snowybirdie]

5. There you go again

generalizing. I try to dig deeper into a situation before making decisions. All or the amorphous "they" are generalizations. Good day.

[USALiberal]

6. Lol, nice try! Nt

[CrackityJones75]

8. I have met and known a bunch of cops in my life.

There seems to be a culture there. Almost every single one of them was a complete prick.

When I meet one that seems to be a good person I will start to change my mind. But by and large I can only go off of my personal experiences with them.

[Rebl2]

19. The only

two I knew kind of, cheated on their wives and the wives divorced them. They just came across as jerks who likely lied knowing their personalities. I still hold out hope there are good police officers out their doing good work and deeds in their communities-my surrounding communities.

[marble falls]

16. And there you go again, mis-catagorizing other's words to prop up your argument ...

... demonstrate any absolute statements from me.

Is it your contention that there is an acceptable, inevitable amount of violence and dishonesty being perpetrated by the police or that while there is an unacceptable amount of violence it's only perpetrated a very few bad apples? Because both are wrong.

[StarfishSaver]

31. Yup.

We should dig down deeply into each individual situation before saying that cops lie.

In the meantime, we should give cops the benefit of the doubt and assume that they DON'T lie, right?

Oh, wait a minute. That's a generalization, too, isn't it?

[Towlie]

9. "It's never good to generalize so broadly." - I see what you did there!

 
←

Very funny! You made the broad generalization that it's never good to generalize so broadly.

[snowybirdie]

11. Afraid I'm

not that clever before my morning coffee. Just hate to see folks hating an entire class of people because of their occupation. Its so Republican!

[Towlie]

17. When I interact with a cop I always remind myself that I'm dealing with some who CHOSE to be a cop.

 
←

It's just like choosing to be a Republican. Even if you approve of what that group pretends to stand for you should be aware of what they actually stand for, and if you join them then it's fair to presume that you're aligned with what they actually stand for.

Fortunately, I very seldom have to interact with a cop.

[uponit7771]

28. I hate it when an entire class of people ***PROVABLY*** hate on an ethnicities anywhere

[multigraincracker]

7. A cop dives in a raging river to save a woman in a car and

I give him or her credit. It's more likely a cop opens fire on an unarmed man who is reaching for his wallet when asked for his ID.
In one case they claim they feared for their safety and in the other they say they feared for her safety. Can't have it both ways.

[JT45242]

10. One of my best friends from my college job became a cop

He described it this way --

One third of cops really want to serve and protect. They get into the job because they think that they can help make communities better.

One third of cops really just want to work 25 years and get a pension. They never want to use their gun. They just want to go their job the right way and at the end of the day have a middle class life style. Often these guys take extra shifts for security at sporting events and other venues because it is easy money. It's really just a job. ( I always thought he underestimated this percentage, but now I think he is right)

One third of cops like the power they have over people. He says they were bullies. They were jocks who were worshipped in high school. They like instilling fear and being vindictive. (I always thought that he overestimated this by at least double, as I thought most people are generally good -- but now I think he was right).

I lived next door to one of the last kind of cops before he got a divorce. All the students where I taught knew him -- that's the guy that harasses you, if you go into the neighboring suburb where he was a cop. They all said he goes easy on the jocks, unless they were black because he had a real mean racist streak. Someone said, though I never confirmed that he lost his starting position to a black kid.

When he got promoted, he said the hardest thing was to try to keep the last group in line because the first groups were either oblivious or didn't want to rock the boat.

Maybe if we did a better job with psychological screening and training we could get it to where it likely should be -- 50% in the first group and 50% in the second group with no bullies. That's where they ought to be spending money on police training and screening rather than tanks, assault weapons, etc. Let's get the right kind of people in the job and they won't need assault weapons -- other countries like us (Canada, the UK, Australia, etc.) don't need cops armed like army rangers or navy seals.

[Hoyt]

14. Think that's a pretty good assessment.

[Jedi Guy]

18. Yep, that sounds about right.

I worked with cops for a couple years as a dispatcher, and that assessment squares pretty well with my memory.

[Iggo]

20. Which third looks the other way when they see another cop commit a crime?

Answer: All three.

[Solomon]

29. This. +1000

[misanthrope]

27. That assessment meshes with my experience.

The sway that last third holds over the other two-thirds is what does so much damage.

[Pepsidog]

15. As a criminal defense lawyer for over 30 years one thing I know for sure, cops lie like a rug.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

24. As A Criminal Defense Lawyer For 24 Years, I Can Confirm That, And I'll Go You One Better

Several years ago, a couple of defense attorneys from our local bar managed to get into a Police Academy training course. They actually got to sit in a classroom with a bunch of people training to become cops and audit the class. After taking the class, they came back and reported to us what they learned. One of the things they learned was that there was an entire COURSE on how to lie in the police report, and how to lie on the stand in order to get the conviction.

Ever wonder why EVERY police report sounds the same, and contains the same buzzwords and catchphrases? Because they're trained that they need to say certain things in those reports in order to get the conviction.

So whenever I hear people talk about how a cop's main job is to protect the public, I just scoff. A cop's main job is to CONVICT the public. At all costs.

[Pepsidog]

25. Wow, so they are trained liars. The next cop I have on cross maybe a few questions about this is in

order just for fun.

[misanthrope]

26. As a journalist for over 20 years

I've known a lot of lawyers who lie as well. A lot.

Not saying that includes you, specifically, but the idea of an attorney casting aspersion about cops' propensity for falsehoods is loaded with irony.

[Pepsidog]

30. The difference between a lawyer's lie usually doesn't result in someone going to prison or

saddling someone with a criminal record. In a system where a cops testimony is, for the most part, considered inherently credible their lies cause ordinary citizens a tremendous amount of personal damage. Dash and body cams has help to even the playing field but cops often turn off the sound or position their patrol car so as to interfere with the recording leaving the court or jury in a position of having to determine whose version of events is more credible the cops or the accused. In a bench trial most judges overwhelming automatically side with the cops. You have a better shot with a jury but it’s still an uphill battle owing to the credibility jurors place upon a cops testimony.

[StarfishSaver]

32. Lawyers don't have power of life and death over anyone

And I'll bet you don't know many lawyers who lie in court or in pleadings

And, unlike cops, lawyers are not just taken at their word. They are consistently balanced out and regularly challenged by opposing counsel and the judge - and are bound by various canons of ethics that can result in sanctions such as suspension and disbarment if caught lying to the court.

Not even close to being the same thing

FYI, I'm a lawyer who knows and says that cops all the time. Are you calling MY credibility into question?

And if you want to go there, perhaps we should bring up the relative credibility of journalists ...

[world wide wally]

21. Wayne LaPierre was on the right track...

It takes a good cop to stop a bad cop.
We just need more "good" cops.

[scarletlib]

22. I highly recommend the book: Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets

It is by David Simon, creator of The Wire. The book came out in 1991 and recounted his year spent with the Baltimore Police Department. At the time he was a reporter with the Baltimore Sun.

It’s a fun and interesting read. He is a great writer. One thing he wrote in the book was the cops telling him what they called their court appearances in criminal cases:

“Testilying”. Sort of says it all, doesn’t it?

I read this book shortly after publication. I have never forgotten that phrase.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. Evening kick.