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brush

(53,782 posts)
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:32 PM May 2021

Poll: Covid-19 came from a lab leak in Wuhan or from bats like Mers and Sars did?

trumpers and other republicans are pushing the lab leak, which is possible, over the more probably precedent to prove trump was right in spreading anti-Asian slurs.

What's your take on it.


23 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Bats or other animal?
10 (43%)
Wuhan lab?
10 (43%)
Dr. Fauci?
0 (0%)
Democrats?
0 (0%)
Other?
3 (13%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Poll: Covid-19 came from a lab leak in Wuhan or from bats like Mers and Sars did? (Original Post) brush May 2021 OP
Robb is a Dingbat jpak May 2021 #1
+1 Lisa0825 May 2021 #3
The only sane choice ornotna May 2021 #34
Trump allowed covid to spread. Killing hundreds of thousands. boston bean May 2021 #2
I don't know where it came from, but I think it should be thoroughly investigated. Crunchy Frog May 2021 #4
Origin doesn't matter in regards to Trump exboyfil May 2021 #5
How about Europe breaking a million deaths? WarGamer May 2021 #10
It came from bats either way. LisaL May 2021 #6
They were doing gain of function research on bat viruses womanofthehills May 2021 #8
+1000 nt WarGamer May 2021 #11
18 top US Scientists wrote a letter to Sciencemag that lab leak needs to be looked into womanofthehills May 2021 #7
As of today, it's a flip of a coin. WarGamer May 2021 #9
Why is this poll on DU? DURHAM D May 2021 #12
Gain of function research on bat viruses. Ever heard of that? brush May 2021 #13
There is actually nothing that can be learned from DUers DURHAM D May 2021 #14
So you knew of gain of function research on bat viruses? brush May 2021 #16
from Trump gopiscrap May 2021 #15
I should've added that to the poll. brush May 2021 #17
No clue. nt RegularJam May 2021 #18
I believe the dna study showed Meowmee May 2021 #19
The WHO study came up with nothing womanofthehills May 2021 #23
I was not referring to the WHO study Meowmee May 2021 #25
Maybe Trump DID DO THIS! I was just looking up "gain of function" and viruses - OhZone May 2021 #20
Actually, the Chinese were reporting that the virus came from our Ft Dietrich lab womanofthehills May 2021 #24
oh that's interesting! OhZone May 2021 #28
I worry that the truth could validate anti-Asian discrimination Generic Brad May 2021 #21
Trump blaiming the Chinese was a cover up that EcoHealth Alliance was funding the research womanofthehills May 2021 #27
gtk OhZone May 2021 #29
2019 Military World Games Klaralven May 2021 #22
I still think the wild animal farms and pangolins are the most likely vector. Mosby May 2021 #26
Yeesh greenjar_01 May 2021 #30
It escaped from DJT's bowel movements. LiberalFighter May 2021 #31
I have believed the animal/bat theory up until now mvd May 2021 #32
We will never really know. roamer65 May 2021 #33
This is not really poll material. We rely on facts. vanlassie May 2021 #35
Why do there have to be only 1 or 2 possibilities? Rstrstx May 2021 #36

Crunchy Frog

(26,587 posts)
4. I don't know where it came from, but I think it should be thoroughly investigated.
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:38 PM
May 2021

The people doing the investigating need to keep political agendas out and only focus on finding the truth, whatever it is.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
5. Origin doesn't matter in regards to Trump
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:40 PM
May 2021

His response was pathetic. On the other hand origin matters a lot in preventing future outbreak. It is quite a coincidence that the lab was located at the origin location.

WarGamer

(12,445 posts)
10. How about Europe breaking a million deaths?
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:47 PM
May 2021

I believe we'll find a Wuhan to Milan first transmission, then to the West Coast, USA... etc, etc...

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
6. It came from bats either way.
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:42 PM
May 2021

Lab was studying bat viruses. One could have escaped accidentally, but either way it originated in bats.

womanofthehills

(8,710 posts)
8. They were doing gain of function research on bat viruses
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:46 PM
May 2021

a little different than just studying them. Actually Dr. Barik of UNC and the director of the Chinese lab wrote a paper together.

womanofthehills

(8,710 posts)
7. 18 top US Scientists wrote a letter to Sciencemag that lab leak needs to be looked into
Fri May 28, 2021, 07:44 PM
May 2021

Including .....the main gain of function UNC guy himself ... Dr. Ralph S.Barik.


Investigate the origins of COVID-19


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/694.1

brush

(53,782 posts)
13. Gain of function research on bat viruses. Ever heard of that?
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:06 PM
May 2021

There's a lot to learn from DU polls, and lot to learn about DUers.

DURHAM D

(32,610 posts)
14. There is actually nothing that can be learned from DUers
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:13 PM
May 2021

about the origin at this point. We can only learn their "opinions". An opinion right now is based on conspiracy theories. Take it to the Q.





gopiscrap

(23,761 posts)
15. from Trump
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:16 PM
May 2021

his people created it so that he could "save" the US from it, but fucked up (sarcasm intended)

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
19. I believe the dna study showed
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:45 PM
May 2021

It originated from bats then most likely jumped to another animal first. It seems unlikely to me that it was a lab leak. Of course it should all be investigated. As I recall none of the people at the lab who became ill tested pos for sars cov 2 / covid 19.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
25. I was not referring to the WHO study
Fri May 28, 2021, 09:29 PM
May 2021

The dna testing was revealed early on, and stated it was a bat origin virus originally. I read several articles/ excerpts about all of this early on. In addition, as I mentioned, no one from the lab was ever proven to have contracted sars cov2 / covid 19. Of course it should be investigated anyway imo.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
20. Maybe Trump DID DO THIS! I was just looking up "gain of function" and viruses -
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:49 PM
May 2021

and I read about something I forgot about!

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop

"The US stopped funding gain-of-function research. Then it started again."

..."in 2017, the government under the Trump administration released new guidelines for gain-of-function research, signaling an end to the blanket moratorium. And the news from 2019 suggests that dangerous projects are proceeding."

So how do we know the restarted viral research under Trump did't do this?

I'm not entirely kidding.

If we made a "bat" virus more lethal and then released it in Wuhan to hurt the Chinese and the rest of the world... in some badly planned attack, it would explain some of Trump's moves...


2017 Trump Admin restarts Viral Research

May 2018 The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.

July 2019 The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.


Almost as possible as the virus escaping from the Wuhan lab.

Granted, it's more likely he just did is stupid incompetent routine, but anything is possible.


Also, remember there is evidence of the virus being in Europe months before the Wuhan outbreak!



EDIT: Oh My Gawd, I also remember a lot of people think they had a covid like virus in America long before it hit Wuhan!

Hmmmmm


womanofthehills

(8,710 posts)
24. Actually, the Chinese were reporting that the virus came from our Ft Dietrich lab
Fri May 28, 2021, 09:27 PM
May 2021

Because Ft Detrik had to close down around this time for breaches of security. It makes more sense that it accidentally escaped from the Wuhan Lab. I think the NIH is powerful and not going to listen to a president. When Obama stopped gain of function research in the US - all research was stopped except for Dr Barik at UNC because he held all the specimens. So - when the research was paused in US by Obama, EcoHealth Alliance funded the Wuhan lab so research could continue.

Generic Brad

(14,275 posts)
21. I worry that the truth could validate anti-Asian discrimination
Fri May 28, 2021, 08:58 PM
May 2021

I am sure Trump only blamed the Chinese because they probably wouldn't give him money; not because he had evidence. If he stumbled on the actual cause as a result of corrupt bumbling, it only gives his supporters a continued rationale for acting out.

womanofthehills

(8,710 posts)
27. Trump blaiming the Chinese was a cover up that EcoHealth Alliance was funding the research
Fri May 28, 2021, 09:35 PM
May 2021

People don’t realize how closely our US scientists were working with the Wuhan scientists. Our Dr Ralph Barik and the director of the Wuhan lab wrote a research paper together.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
22. 2019 Military World Games
Fri May 28, 2021, 09:04 PM
May 2021

The 2019 Military World Games (Chinese: 2019年世界军人运动会; pinyin: 2019 Nián shìjiè jūnrén yùndònghuì), officially known as the 7th CISM Military World Games (Chinese: 第七届世界军人运动会; pinyin: Dì qī jiè shìjiè jūnrén yùndònghuì) and commonly known as Wuhan 2019, was held from October 18–27, 2019 in Wuhan, Hubei, China.[2][3]

The 7th Military World Games was the first international military multi-sport event to be held in China and also the largest military sports event ever to be held in China, with nearly 10,000 athletes from over 100 countries competing in 27 sports.[4][5] The multi-sport event included 25 official and 2 demonstrative sports. Six sport disciplines such as badminton, tennis, table tennis, women's boxing and men's gymnastics made their debuts in the event.[6]

It was also the second biggest international sport event to be held in the year 2019 in China after hosting the 2019 FIBA Basketball World Cup. The Games were organized by the Military Sports Commission of China, Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China and the military commands (Army in accordance with CISM regulations and the rules of the International Sports Federations.[7] For the first time in the history of the Military World Games, an Olympic village was set up for the athletes prior to the commencement of the Games.[8] The village was officially opened for the athletes following the flag-raising ceremony.[9]

Host nation China sent a delegation consisting of 553 participants for the games, which marked the record number of participants to represent a nation at a single Military World Games.[10] Around 230,000 volunteers were recruited for the event to be staged in China.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

mvd

(65,174 posts)
32. I have believed the animal/bat theory up until now
Fri May 28, 2021, 11:41 PM
May 2021

Now I think it is looking more like lab, but as long as experts like Fauci remain skeptical, the bat theory will be very viable in my opinion.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
33. We will never really know.
Sat May 29, 2021, 12:30 AM
May 2021

It will always be conjecture just like the theories of where 1918 flu virus originated are now.

I know one thing that is a solid fact.

GET VACCINATED.

vanlassie

(5,670 posts)
35. This is not really poll material. We rely on facts.
Sat May 29, 2021, 12:36 AM
May 2021

Opinions on science are what the Republicans encourage their dumb followers to embrace. Asking what our take is is asking our opinion, and we know the facts are not in yet.... right?

Rstrstx

(1,399 posts)
36. Why do there have to be only 1 or 2 possibilities?
Sat May 29, 2021, 12:52 AM
May 2021

I can envision a number:

1) natural occurrence, somehow jumped from bats to an intermediate to humans in Wuhan or somewhere in the general vicinity

2) natural occurrence, lingered for years around Mojiang where its most similar relative was discovered in 2012/13 and it slowly or suddenly mutated to SARS-Cov2, makes a jump to human(s) who then travel to Wuhan in 2019

2a) same as 2 but it somehow evolves in the body of a human without an intermediate host (it had about 7 years to do this). I believe the Mojiang Miners Passage hypothesis is similar to this but could be wrong.

3) similar to #2 but nobody traveled to Wuhan and instead samples were sent from Mojiang to WIV after abnormally high numbers of sick people start popping up in the area. Upon arrival or while being studied it escapes from the lab

3a) the person who delivered the samples from Mojiang to Wuhan was unknowingly infected

4) samples from Mojiang or other undisclosed strains were being studied using Gain-of-function experiments, lab accident occurs and it escapes

5) similar to 4 except it is intentionally released by a rogue “mad scientist” instead of accidentally escaping

5a) it is released with the blessing of the Chinese government

6) virus from Mojiang is intentionally redesigned as a bio-weapon and released in Wuhan, again either by a rogue element or as a government effort

7) the Chinese government version: Americans got ahold of Mojiang virus, turn it into a bio weapon and intentionally release it at Wuhan Olympic Games or some other event in order to make China look bad, or something

To me the first 3 or 4 are the most likely scenarios, 5-7 go against Hanlon’s razor (never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity) and are probably not the cause, at least not IMO. And explanations 6 and 7 have been pretty much ruled out by scientists, it has none of the signatures a bio-weapon would have.

Explanations 3 and 4 require a certain degree of incompetence on the part of the Chinese government or the WIV and would go a long ways towards explaining why the Chinese are being less than cooperative. If someone at the lab or higher up effed up they’ve probably decided that it’s best if it could just be swept under the rug, lest the country might be on the hook for potentially exorbitant penalties or retribution.

To further bolster this idea is that the government has thrown up roadblocks at every step of the way, and at times literally: last year a broken down van on the road to Mojiang was placed in the road mere minutes before a crew from the BBC was trying to get to the area to do a story. (So sorry about that guys, I’m afraid the road is closed today. Pity you can’t continue on).

These kinds of frustrating little incidents are why we’re hearing calls for a “real” investigation, the Chinese government just isn’t being transparent about some of the most important details and it gives the distinct impression they’re hiding something. Do I think they released the virus on purpose? No, at least not at an organized level. Do I think this is somehow the result of someone just screwing up at some point? Possibly, maybe even likely. Incompetence is far more likely than malevolence. The Trump administration had political reasons to point the finger to China since they were in a difficult re-election campaign and jumped on to any reason to deflect blame from their ineptness.

Will we ever know the real answer? That’s a good question, if the Chinese ever fully cooperate I’d say yes. If they don’t, are there techniques good enough to come to a conclusion with a high degree of certainty? That I don’t know, but I’d be willing to bet the farm intelligence agencies around the world are working on how to find an answer without the help of the Chinese government, using everything from forensics to quietly trying to contact inside people who might know something. I suspect we’ll have a pretty good idea of what went down within the next few years. Expect absolutely zero shock if it turns out that this whole tragedy was largely due to mistakes, incompetence and ineptness at many, many turns along the way from many people and institutions in many places.

Oh and about those reports of it being present in Europe much earlier: I believe this has been attributed to bad sampling, the confidence level is extremely high that this came from a virus with origins in the caves of southern China. To see it mysteriously appear out of the blue in Europe first makes absolutely no sense at all. If I didn’t know any better I’d say someone is trying to lead you down a rabbit hole.

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