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Ocelot II

(115,735 posts)
2. In the case presumably in question - the Apple metadata -
Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:33 AM
Jun 2021

it was in order to find out which members of Congress, if any, were leaking information to the media. The subpoena went to Apple, not to members of Congress, but they can be subpoenaed too.

Response to spanone (Original post)

panader0

(25,816 posts)
5. That's my question too.
Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:35 AM
Jun 2021

I understand trump going after his enemies in Congress, and I understand the servile complicity of
Billy Barr. But how did they get a grand jury to grant subpoenas? I'd really like to know who requested
them, probably Barr, but who else was behind it.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
8. Subpoenas are issued by grand juries at the request of prosecutors
Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:44 AM
Jun 2021

It doesn't take much to get them.

These subpoenas probably were not requested specifically by Barr, but by federal prosecutors reporting to him who were conducting the leak investigation on his orders.

EarlG

(21,949 posts)
7. It's my understanding that grand juries almost always do basically whatever they're told
Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:41 AM
Jun 2021
According to the American Bar Association (ABA), the grand jury has come under increasing criticism for being a mere "rubber stamp" for the prosecution without adequate procedural safeguards. Critics argue that the grand jury has largely lost its historic role as an independent bulwark protecting citizens from unfounded accusations by the government. Grand juries provide little protection to accused suspects and are much more useful to prosecutors.

Grand juries have such broad subpoena power that they can investigate alleged crimes very thoroughly and often assist the prosecutor in his or her job. Grand juries sometimes compel witnesses to testify without the presence of their attorneys. Evidence uncovered during the grand jury investigation can be used by the prosecutor in a later trial. Grand jurors also often lack the ability and knowledge to judge sophisticated cases and complicated federal laws. This puts them at the mercy of very well trained and experienced federal prosecutors. Grand jurors often hear only the prosecutor's side of the case and are usually persuaded by them. Grand juries almost always indict people on the prosecutor's recommendation.

An unnamed Rochester defense lawyer was quoted in a 1979 newspaper article claiming that a prosecutor could get a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwich", a saying subsequently repeated by the chief judge of New York State's highest court, Sol Wachtler. And William J. Campbell, a former federal district judge in Chicago, noted: "[T]oday, the grand jury is the total captive of the prosecutor who, if he is candid, will concede that he can indict anybody, at any time, for almost anything, before any grand jury."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States
 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
9. I don't think that a Subpoena Duces Tecum necessarily involves a grand jury
Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:46 AM
Jun 2021

AFAIK, a subpoena for business records is originated by a prosecutor, then presented to and approved by a judge. In this case, it is likely to be a judge qualified for counter intelligence investigations.

It is also pretty standard for the subpoena to be accompanied by a gag order so that the target of the investigation is not informed that they are under investigation until some while after the investigation is complete.

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