WTF ... Authorities: Suspect fatally shot, dragged suspected catalytic converter thief

[UpInArms]

Campbell told police he was sleeping in his truck Saturday morning when he woke up to find someone trying to steal the catalytic converter under his truck.

“He opened up his door he saw the torso of the suspect,” Lawler said.

A short time later, a truck driver noticed a suspicious Ford truck dragging something through a parking lot on Sharondale Street SW and called 911.

The truck driver identified Campbell’s truck.

According to court documents: Campbell later admitted he shot the man several times-while he was under his truck.

Then, according to court records, “he lashed the victim's hands above his head and tied him to the ball hitch on his F-150, then dragged him through the field.”

Campbell told officers the would-be thief was still alive when he left him there, but he died.

... snip ...

Campbell faces kidnapping and second-degree murder charges in the man’s death. He has two previous felony assault convictions on his criminal background.

https://komonews.com/news/local/authorities-suspect-shot-victim-in-face-dragged-him-400-feet-through-parking-lot

[harumph]

1. Frankly, if I caught someone were trying to steal my catalytic converter

I'm not sure what I'd do. Wouldn't go as far as Campbell (of course) - but wouldn't be pretty. In addition,
there is a high likelihood that such a thief would be armed. You effectively disable a car by stealing a catalytic converter b/c
it's no longer legal to drive. Many people with little means would have their lives severely negatively affected (could no longer
travel to work, etc.).
Not worth a man's life - but...the crime isn't trivial.

[Haggard Celine]

2. I agree.

I would probably kick his ass. I'd call the police first, though. Don't have the money to replace a catalytic converter, not without giving up something much needed. I'd want that guy to pay!

[Blues Heron]

6. Just call 911

let the pros handle it. Vigilante assault is always wrong.

[Blues Heron]

15. Its definitely not self defense Jirel, it's vigilantism

It's a big problem. It's also a crime as this psycho will find out.

[sarisataka]

18. No, that is pretty much the definition

Of vigilantism.

It is definitely NOT self-defense

[NutmegYankee]

27. Most states allow force to be used to stop theft.

Not deadly force, but punching a thief to stop the theft is legal.

[Blues Heron]

29. Have at it then, but don't be surprised if they escalate

Seems silly to get violent over some item that can be replaced. Get ones teeth knocked out and that's forever. Of course getting shot is a popular option these days too.

[NutmegYankee]

31. Honestly, in this situation, I'd have just started the vehicle and driven away.

That’s completely defendable because of concerns about safety and protection of property. Hopefully the thief got the hint and got out of the way of the wheels in time. Either way, my actions would be legal and reasonable.

[Blues Heron]

32. You'd probably find out your not allowed to knowingly crush someone

for stealing something off your car.

[NutmegYankee]

33. Doubtful.

I'd likely not be charged under state law, but If I was it would be hard to convince every single person on the jury that my fear wasn't reasonable. Physically, I can't outrun most people, so my only option to flee is the vehicle.

[Blues Heron]

35. not over a car part though

plus you'd have to live with it yourself, reliving it every time you thought about it which would be daily. Not worth it.

[NutmegYankee]

38. Someone who is willing to chop into an occupied vehicle is a threat.

They have tools that can do grievous harm to the human body and the vehicle is occupied and they didn't care. I have a right to get to safety. My hope would be they flee once the engine started, but regardless, I have a right to flee to safety.

[moonscape]

49. I'd lock myself in the car and call 911. I don't think

I’d be able to run over a human.

[NutmegYankee]

53. Not trying to run over someone.

Just trying to get to safety. Ideally the person hacking at the car isn't stupid and gets out of the way.

[Blues Heron]

57. The question would be did you knowingly run the guy over

not did you warn him by starting your car. You still can't run someone over for stealing a car part off your car.

[NutmegYankee]

60. Numerous examples where this is justified with reasonable fear.

A notable example was Alexian Lien on the Hudson River Parkway back in 2013. You need to remember all the occupant in the vehicle hears is the grinding of metal, which can be extremely frightening. You can argue all you want, the law doesn't work the way you think it does.

[Blues Heron]

62. That was an attack though

Stealing a car part doesn't rise to that level.

[NutmegYankee]

64. You presume the occupant knows what is happening.

As I said, if I heard that kind of noise awaken me from sleep, I'd immediately start the vehicle and move to safety. In actuality, I never even know if someone was under there.

[Blues Heron]

65. And then you would rightly be charged with vehicular homicide

The law just simply frowns on killing others, you must know that. Having someone steal from your car doesn't give you any special murder rights.

[NutmegYankee]

66. Nope. No Mens Rea.

And reasonable fear that something is happening below that could hurt me - for all I know there is an underground collapse (sink hole) forming or a underground utility is about to explode. You can say otherwise, but the burden to disprove that is the states burden, not mine. The state HAS to prove I knew someone was under me who I would crush. Not going to happen.

[Blues Heron]

71. Yor story would fall apart that you didn't know someone was under there

It's hard to maintain a lie like that. Plus they'd probably catch you on camera crushing the guy who was taking your car part. Everybody's recording everything these days - no way you'd get away with a lie like that. Best to do the right thing and call the cops.

[NutmegYankee]

72. LOL!

You've gone delusional.

And what lie? As I said from the beginning, if I woke to that noise, I'd start up and relocate the vehicle. I have no knowledge that anyone is under the car. At no point did I ever indicate I stepped out and looked under the vehicle, because I wouldn't.

[Blues Heron]

75. The lie where you're claiming you didn't know someone was under your car

sawing away on your tailpipe. Like I said, you don't get to murder someone for taking something off your car, as much as you think it does. It's vigilantism.

[NutmegYankee]

77. Keep screaming into the wind.

The law doesn't work the way you think it does. And I wouldn't give a statement - you never talk to police in an interview. The moment police stated someone was crushed, I'd request a lawyer.

Interesting that nowhere in this thread have you indicated that the guy sawing into the vehicle bears any responsibility for putting himself into harms way. It's like you consider his actions completely acceptable and reasonable.

[Blues Heron]

78. not at all - I'm saying you don't get to intentionally kill him

You seem to think a theft gives you special murder privileges - it doesn't.

[NutmegYankee]

79. I never once made that argument.

If he died, it was an accidental circumstance related to me escaping to a safer spot, and solely related to the poor judgement of the thief to craw under a occupied vehicle and remain there after the engine started.

[Blues Heron]

80. except if you knew he was there it was not an accident

The accident story would quickly fall apart under questioning when it became apparent that of course you knew he was under there. You can't just run someone over because they're taking a car part

[NutmegYankee]

82. The next test is reasonable fear.

Did I have a reasonable fear? Not once have you discounted that -especially once you factor in that I was sleeping and woke to the noise. People disturbed from their sleep in a deep NREM stage will awaken with their judgement compromised (brain takes about 20 seconds to fully awaken) and their fight or flight response pumping adrenaline and heightening up the fear response. If in a REM stage, hallucinations caused by the dream stage may also trigger the adrenaline surge. The driver might have anxiety and panic. Inherent to our system of law is the principle of "Egg Shell Skull Doctrine" where you take your victim as they come. If the driver easily panics or has an anxiety crisis, they are not responsible because the thief bears the responsibility for choosing his victim poorly.

You assume the driver was well rested and alert. You assume he knows what is happening, when the reality is they probably won't. You assume the driver is even aware someone is under the car. Hell, you even assume the driver knows what a catalytic converter is - maybe he thinks it's that thing mounted in the DeLorean from those 80s movies?

All of these destroy Mens Rea, leaving the state with no case.

[Lancero]

86. Fear for your life, of a guy laying on his back on the ground.

And here I thought just cops were scared shitless by that.

[alphafemale]

44. I'd just say I had no idea they were there.

Prove otherwise.

[Blues Heron]

45. So you'd crush them and lie about what happened?

[alphafemale]

46. Only if they're slow.

You seem to think a thief would not slit a child's throat for the coins in their piggy bank.

You want to give a thief a sandwich and you think they won't hurt you?

You life in a fantasy world.

[Blues Heron]

47. A sandwich? I said call the cops leave it to them

don't confront, try to injure, or escalate the situation in any way because a car part isn't worth losing your life which could easily happen.

[sarisataka]

48. Interesting view on how thieves act

Just the other day posters were laughing at a robbery victim who was shot when he resisted.

The wisdom given was give them what they want and they will leave you alone.

[alphafemale]

68. If it is their third strike and life in prison anyway?

A thief has better odds to kill you and not leave a witness to testify.

I will always assume it is their third strike and my life or theirs.

I chose mine.

[sarisataka]

73. I look at it that a person who has no respect

For my property isn't likely to have respect for my well being.

It was disturbing to see how many found it humorous and that the victim got what he deserved for forcing the robber to fight back.

[NutmegYankee]

74. That thread was sickening.

[alphafemale]

81. If I have the element of surprise on a person robbing me and on my property I am taking it

Some here seem to think I should let them decide whether they want to kill me or not.

Laws in every state are on my side if a robber is robbing and whoops they die while at their extremely bad choice of life professions.

[Lancero]

89. That isn't what happened here though.

He shot him. He then decided to tie him to his truck, and drag him off into the middle of the field while he was bleeding out.

This wasn't a clear cut case of self defense. And frankly, given the efforts he went through to move the body I'd really doubt the shooters claims that he was being robbed.

Then again, the shooter had felony convictions on his record so... Yeah, him having that gun at all is liable to cause issues.

Will the state laws be on your side if you shoot someone with a gun you're not legally allowed to have, and then drag them behind a vehicle to the middle of a field while they're still bleeding out?

[Lancero]

85. More due to proximity. That case...

The dude had a gun right on him - A situation where retreat was impossible, and compliance would have been the safer alternative.

The decision to fight back or comply, in cases like these, just depends on who gets the drop on who.

[alphafemale]

93. Yes. Once someone has a gun on you.

You comply to robbery.

If they want you to get into a car backseat or trunk or tell you to kneel down?

You might as well fight like a rapid ass dog.

They intend to kill you.

Make them work for it.

[LiberatedUSA]

54. Well a cold person...

...would close the door, start it up and drive over the theif, then stop and get out and act surprised and call 911.

That story doesn’t sound criminal. A lie yes, but believable lie. They woke up and started the truck and drove, only to realize someone was under their truck.

That would get ruled an accident and the thief was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Believable because the “clever” individual knew enough to stop right after to back up their surprise story.

[Blues Heron]

55. The lie would fall apart in a second under questioning

Plus chances are it would be filmed on surveillance cameras. Then the intent would be clear and the crushing revealed as deliberate vigilantism.

[LiberatedUSA]

56. The world doesn't work that way.

Some times evil people get away with evil shit.

Edit:

And anyone that did all that, or didn’t even, would ask for a lawyer instead of being grilled. Because it is always smart to ask for a lawyer anyway.

[ProfessorGAC]

67. Just Start The Car!

The exhaust system gets hot fast.
If flow is still going to the converter, that oxidation is highly exothermic. Converter would get too hot too touch, really fast!
Put in gear, eventually the thief will get out from under, then hit the gas.
If the exhaust line is already cut, it would be hot & loud under there. The incentive to get out of there would be intense.
Now, nobody gets killed, and the crime is prevented.
Running over someone is not the best option.
What this guy did may be the worst option.

[NutmegYankee]

69. That was my primary argument.

A person would have to WANT to be a Darwin award winner to remain under a running vehicle. But someone else on this thread seems to want to virtue signal or just be obtuse.

[LiberatedUSA]

70. I agree.

My post wasn’t a condoning of actions, just what a person who was ok with killing someone could possibly do to kill someone and get away with it under these particular set of circumstances.

[ansible]

14. It costs around $1000-$2000 to replace a cat converter

What's particularly annoying is that the cats themselves won't even get that much for scrap value, usually around $200-$500 only. You might as well just pay the thief to leave your car alone, it'd be cheaper.

[Haggard Celine]

17. Yeah, replacing a catalytic converter would

break me right now. Stealing from poor people to get a few hundred dollars, probably to buy drugs with, is pretty low. It would be hard not to beat him up after considering how much the bastard was going to fuck up my life.

[Blues Heron]

30. why are you so sure you would beat him up and not vice versa?

is it worth a car part to get seriously harmed or worse? Surely not. Dental bills can be pricier than car parts by a long shot.

[Haggard Celine]

34. It's a risk, but I think I would likely win.

I've got weapons, not guns, that would put him out of commission pretty early in a fight. I wouldn't try to kill him, but I would make him sorry he messed with my property.

[Blues Heron]

36. right but plenty of vids show that one punch can be fatal

Surely you'd trade a car part for not having to be a killer your whole rest of your life. Don't discount the guilt of killing.

[TheBlackAdder]

23. Assholes will smash your car window to take 35 cents in change on the console.

[PCIntern]

40. You're right about that...

1978, 39th and Chestnut Sts here in Philly

Two quarters near the shift knob I’d taken out to go across the bridge but went another way and bridge was free.

[DFW]

84. 39th and Chestnut in Philly?? That's where I lived during my last 2 years of college!!

Yes, it was a nasty part of town. All of West Philly was nasty, at least in those days. I was happy to get the hell outta there. I finally escaped for good in 1975.

[PCIntern]

88. That's when I got there

We’re you in Chestnut Hall or Hamilton Court?

[DFW]

94. Chestnut Hall

I finally got out of there when I was recruited by current outfit in 1975, and here I am, still with then 46 years later. First stationed in the Boston area, then down to Dallas, although by that time I was already spending more than half my time in Europe and the Far East.

[PCIntern]

95. Me too.

Mrs Campbell was the manager, the Elwyn Institute adults lived on the 2nd floor, and the lobby flooring was so old it had decorative swastika tiles in the corners of the pattern.

Hi to you, O fellow traveler!!!😄

[DFW]

96. Twas a VERY long time ago.

I have made peace with my memories of my years there, and moved on. WAY on. Düsseldorf is a long way from Philadelphia. While I was there, short jaunts meant day trips to DC, NYC, or Boston. These days, the short jaunts are to Utrecht, Brussels, Paris, or Zürich. Like I said, I have moved on.

[alphafemale]

97. They'll slit your child's throat for the money in their piggy bank

I would not think twice about killing a person who broke into my property or give them a moment to explain their motives for being in my space.

Hesitation is your child being dead.

[rockfordfile]

42. true

[USALiberal]

50. Kick his ass? You assume you could? Nt

[BGBD]

10. It sounded to me

Like Campbell was living in that truck.

[BGBD]

3. I guess

That thief picked the wrong truck to fuck with.

[Blues Heron]

7. The driver chose poorly as well - he will pay for his violence

Sounds like a total sicko

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. I don't think anyone is jumping to the defense of thievery.

I don't know the victim, and I don't gather I'd like them very much. But that's irrelevant. The point here is that shitkicker Batman, himself a violent felon, should probably be locked away somewhere because he's an antisocial dickbag.

[LiberalArkie]

22. What about the felon in possession of a firearm?

[Act_of_Reparation]

25. The felon in possession of a firearm I referred to as an "antisocial dickbag"?

Clearly the bad guy of the story, though I thought I'd made that abundantly clear.

[LiberalArkie]

28. Being a felon is probably why he lives out of his truck. Having a handgun in his possession

makes him very dangerous and very stupid.

A thief is dead and a dangerous man is probably going away for a very long time.

[obamanut2012]

24. Theft should never be a capital sentence

Especially one executed by a criminal.

[NBachers]

4. No comment

[USALiberal]

51. Then why reply??? Weird! Nt

[NBachers]

83. No comment

[live love laugh]

5. Campbell sounds deranged. That was excessively cruel and violent. nt

[sarisataka]

8. That is someone

Who needs to be locked up for a long time.

[RegularJam]

9. Guy needs to go away for a long time.

He was not in harms way and he brutally murdered someone.

People need to start getting this. You shouldn’t defend your catalytic converters to the death. If you can run, run.

It’s simple. If your life isn’t threatened don’t murder someone.

[Calculating]

58. I can't just come up with $1200+ for a new cat

If I catch someone trying to steal it they're getting messed up. I'm not gonna just "let" the bad guys take my stuff.

[RegularJam]

59. I'm sorry to hear this.

It very common in a consumer driven and materialistic society. Plastic and metal before life.

Truly sad that harming someone is your go to thought. So many other ways. Have fun messing up people who have fallen on rough times.

[Calculating]

61. Fallen on rough times?

These idiots stealing cats are creating a huge hardship for people, to get a few hundred dollars to buy drugs. No sympathy.

[RegularJam]

63. I never said they weren't causing hardships for some.

Your opening line is a basic fallacy.

Glad we agree that these are people struggling.

Violence is not the answer. I would argue that those claiming they would cause violence in such a situation are just as ignorant as the thief. Possibly more so.

[USALiberal]

76. Lol

[MineralMan]

12. Completely irrational choice of action.

Now, I'd be pissed if someone was trying to steal the catalytic converter from my vehicle, but I'd just call the cops and maybe yell at the person and hope he or she ran off.

But, I certainly wouldn't shoot someone over it. I wouldn't tie them to my trailer hitch and tow them around, either. Something ain't right with that truck owner. Now, he may spend the rest of his life in prison. Beyond stupid.

[dalton99a]

13. Details:

[Hoyt]

21. AKA "Adam Jesus Christ."

[Silent3]

19. Without the tying and dragging part...

...and trying to hide that he'd killed the guy, hell, it wouldn't surprise me if this kind of behavior is covered by "stand your ground" laws in some states.

I wonder if any Republicans, trying to be as Trumpy as possible, will propose allowing torturing people as part of "standing your ground" too?

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. Talk about overkill.

People around here are always threatening to kill thieves.

It is a huge problem but you can't just shoot someone.

[kcr]

37. Nice to occasionally be reminded

how many psychopaths post here. Threads like this bring them out.

[Dan]

39. Read most of the posts on this thread...

1. Let the thief go…
2. Pay the thief the $200 he would get versus taking the $1-2,000 converter.
3. Call the cops (and hope they arrive in time, lots of luck with that if not a violent crime).
4. If you kill him, live with it…
5. If he steals your converter and you can’t use your vehicle thus affecting your ability to work?
6. Beat the thief up and hopes he’s not a pro, thus beating your ass…

Wondering, just what is the answer? Lot of people don’t have $2000 to spare.

And, we wonder why there are so many shooting in some poor areas… the stealing of some item might affect someone’s ability to live, maybe not directly but in the near long term.

Maybe do what they do in Saudi Arabia - we should be allowed to cut the thief’s primary hand off?

Thinking about it - if I’m on his jury, he is guilty of dragging the body.

[liberaltrucker]

41. No further comment needed

[onethatcares]

43. couple of questions though

when did Ford start putting sleeper berths in F150s?

2nd: If the perp would have leaned on the horn the thief would have smacked his head on the frame or transmission and probably stopped cutting the converter from the tailpipe.

3d: was the perp using a battery powered sawsall or a hacksaw?

[maxsolomon]

52. 1. KOMO is a Sinclair outlet. Don't link to them. Fuck KOMO.

2. Cat Converter theft is rampant in Puget Sound. We've been hit twice, once successfully. 2nd time they left our Prius up on a single tower of landscape bricks.
3. Campbell is homeless so he was sleeping in his truck. His truck is probably all he has, and it's improbable that he could afford to replace the Cat Converter.
4. Campbell is mentally ill. His (over)reaction is indicative of that, as well as listing himself as Jesus Christ.

[Progressive Jones]

87. WTF ??? There are people in this thread defending the killer ! nt

[Lancero]

90. Most of them are overlooking exactly how the guy died.

If Campbell put a couple in him and called the cops, fine. Dude was robbing what was, essentially, his house with him in it so... Yeah, I can see self defense.

But that wasn't what Campbell did. Shooting him, given the circumstances, would be defensible. Stringing him up behind the truck and dragging him, bleeding out all the while, into the middle of a field and leaving him to die isn't.

Frankly, given what Campbell did, how he tried to cover up what happened to the supposed robber, I really have to doubt his claims that someone was trying to chop out his trucks catalytic converter.

[Progressive Jones]

91. Thank You. nt

[WarGamer]

92. If he was in Texas, he might be up for a Civics Award...