WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads

[ZonkerHarris]

WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads

The WHO urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe.

“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves,” WHO official Dr. Mariangela Simao told reporters.

more at link...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

[SheltieLover]

1. I've not changed my pandemic protocols at all

No plans to lose mask anytime soon, if ever!

Ty for posting this.

[Lovie777]

3. Ditto . ..

[SheltieLover]

29. It's not over, much as we all wish it to be.

Stay safe!

[wnylib]

38. I'll second that ditto.

i am double masking as before, avoiding large crowds and maintaining distance. Infections are way down in my area so very few people are wearing masks. But Delta is confirmed to be present in areas near here. Taking no chances since it will spread here sooner or later.

[SheltieLover]

92. Glad you are being extra careful, Wyn!

Cases are very low in my county at present, only 10 yesterday, but there are 20-some delta infections confirmed.

Not taking any chances here either.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. We knew it! It's intuitive. It's like they don't have that part of their brain

Of course TFG neutered WHO. And CDC seems slow all the time. Just got back from the grocery in Texas and I would say only about 5% were wearing masks. It takes a long time for an idea to reach critical mass they need to start now

[SheltieLover]

30. Yes, it is intuitive!

We will likely never know, but I wonder what % of vaxed workers at CDC is?

That would be quite telling!

I'll continue to mask & soc distance until I'm convinced it's over.

I'm usually the only one masked at grocery, except employees.

And, given stats I've seen on delta, I completely restocked my pandemic goods. All will be eaten / used in time either way, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Stay safe!

[wnylib]

41. Same here.

[SheltieLover]

49. Glad to hear, Wyn!

Just common sense to me.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

44. You rock SL!! And being super careful gets me out

of a lot of things I didn't want to do anyway . "Meeting so and in inside restaurant" .. "Nope, can't go".

[SheltieLover]

50. Lol

"An abundance of caution." Should serve you well.

But it's true! There are 50k maskholes on Colorado at a music fest in an area with 30% vax rate. Then they will go home...

Not sure wth is wrong with people?

Stay safe!

[wnylib]

56. In NYC, concerts are being held.

The Buffalo Bills games are open to all people with no requirement for vaccination or masks. Delta is present in the county around Buffalo. That is too damn close to me for comfort. Infections are way down in my immediate area so almost nobody wears masks here, but many people from here go to Bills games.

[SheltieLover]

59. Why are people so careless? 😱

I'd love to go to a concert, sporting event, or out to eat (my fav!), but it is not worth risking my life to do so.

Mind boggling!

[wnylib]

61. Covid fatigue. They are tired of masking and

isolating and want to get back to normal. I can understand. I miss going out to eat with friends. I miss some of the interest groups I used to get together with. I am disappointed that some of my travel plans have been put off. But I also don't want to take chances.

The overall statewide vaccination rate in NY is at 70% so Cuomo has removed all restrictions except that masks are still required in hospitals, nursing homes, medical offices, and on public transportation.

But there are pockets where the vaccination rate is lower. In my area, I am surprised that infections are so low because the vaccination rate is only around 45% overall. But it is at 74% for people over 65. I suspect that there are undetected cases here of asymptomatic younger people who have not been tested. With our low vaccination rate, there will be a lot of infections when Delta takes hold here.

I feel like I am in the calm before the storm.

[SheltieLover]

62. I feel the same way, calm before the storm

All because of anti-vaxers & mask holes.

Vax rate in TN is somewhere around a whopping 35%, likely higher for seniors. Like a powder keg throwing off sparks. Delta is here - somewhere around 20 cases.

Stay safe, my friend!

[LisaL]

64. Missouri is already having a delta outbreak.

Only a matter of time before it happens in other states, I presume. Meanwhile people are acting as if pandemic was over.

[wnylib]

65. And you stay safe, too.

[SheltieLover]

66. Ty, Wyn!

Doing my best.

[liberal_mama]

78. I couldn't believe that backed down on the vaccine requirement for Buffalo Bills games

The Erie County Executive was so firm on the vaccine requirements for Bills games, then just changed his mind. I'm sure not going to be going to a Bills game this year.

[TheBlackAdder]

90. Yep. The CDC should not have dropped it. NJ and other states relaxed their mask rules on 6/1.

.

Let's see if the July 4th Super-Spreaders will change things.

.

[AlexSFCA]

2. nothing is ever safe, everything is a calculated risk

I chose to believe in strong effectiveness of vaccines and I am willing to take a risk of asymptomatic or milder disease. Remember, masks are most effective against when everyone else is wearing them, only N95 is truly effective protection. There may some positive things coming out of this pandemic, e.g. I believe masks should aways always be mandatory in healthcare settings; covid is not the only virus out there. Healthcare professionals should always be mandated vaccination. Hand hygiene needs to remain indefinitely. Thankfully, kids younger than 12 are least likely to have any symptoms, and extremely low risk of hospitalization and death from covid. I could care less about unvaccinated adults. Those 0.0001% of immunocomprimazied population for whom these vaccines are not effective, already take extrpordinary protective measures including n95 masks. We are at a point of the pandemic where vaccines have been widely available for some time now so it becomes a personal choice now. I am hoping, most employers will start mandating covid vaccines after full fda approval. Cannot have unvaxxers at a workplace, deadly danger to themselves and others.

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. If you were alone in the world, that would be an acceptable attitude.

I have elderly parents. I am willing to risk a mild illness--for myself. But, I am not willing to risk passing it on to family members.

It takes a village.

[Mossfern]

6. If you're fully vaccinated

and your parents are vaccinated, then I would not be so worried...but that's me.
I don't go out of my way to be exposed, but I don't fret either.

I'm 72 years old, wondering if that's considered elderly.

[SheltieLover]

31. Yes, it does take a village!

I will continue to wear my N95s when around others.

Stay safe & remember even mild or asymptomatic cases can result in long-haul!

[SoonerPride]

5. I agree 100%

Everything you wrote is spot on.

[USALiberal]

13. LOL, well that's no surprise! Nt

[HUAJIAO]

23. LOL....

[USALiberal]

12. Do you know what that sounds like? Nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. The second part of your first sentence is so true. It's a matter of how much risk

a person is willing to take. Okay the vaccine may be 95% effective as of when the drug co locked the study. That must be an average?

Don't understand why it doesn't vary. Up when you're sitting outside in the woods in Alaska. And down when you're crammed in a sweaty concert hall with everyone jumping up and down, singing, and screaming and yelling for the band.

I don't think the average person understands this. I have seen and heard it with my own eyes. "The governor said it was okay." Like the governor is an esteemed epidemiologist. And the governor said it wasn't safe yesterday but it's safe today miraculously. And they don't get the irony in that.

[wnylib]

63. Amother factor to consider is

that vaccines are effective against both infection and spread for the older Alpha variant. Delta changes the picture. More breakthrough infections and more spreading of the virus even by vaccinated people.

[Ms. Toad]

68. Drug effectiveness is calculated by comparing an unvaccinated control population

with the vaccine test group.

They looked for serious illness or death (I don't recall how they defined illness or death). They did NOT, in the initial study check every participant for seroconversion, so the effectiveness data is based on individuals who has something to prompt them to be tested.

They calculated a % of unvaccinated individuals in the study who were diagnosed with serious illness or death. They calculated the % of vaccinated individuals in the study who were diagnosed with serious illness or death.

The 95% is a measure of a reduction in actual cases identified in each population.

So if 15% of the unvaccinated population acquired COVID and only .75% of the vaccinated population acquired COVID, that means it was 95% effective (1-.75/15)*100 = 95%

What will vary is the materialization of the risk.

The 15% and .75% were calculated in particular populations, particular population densities, with particular mitigation mechanisms in place, with a particular mix of variants. The % who actually come down with COVID will change (higher, for example in Nov-Dec-Jan; lower now) - but the premise is that whatever portion of vaccinated come down with COVID it will be reduced by 95% for the vaccinated (breakthrough) cases.

As an example - if the actual infection rate for a particular period of time/place/variant mix, in an unvaccinated population now is 3% - the actual breakthrough rate would be 5% of that (.15%). If the actual unvaccinated infection rate os 30% (extraordinarily high), the breakthrough rate woudl be 1.5%

The intuition you have is why I've been so frustrated with the "the chances are so miniscule . . . crowd." The actual risk depends on the frequency of exposure, how contatious the variant mix is, how many people are packed into a room, etc. Whatever the infection rate is - our breakthrough rate will be 5% of that. Not checking for vaccination status before permitting being unmasked indoors, ignoring the possibility that the vaccine will be less effective against the Delta variant (e.g. there are some suggestions the mRNA vaccines are only 88% effective - which more than doubles the risk - from 5% of the unvaccinated risk to 12% of the unvaccinated risk.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

83. Thank you for that explanation. What surprised me off the bat

is that in the trials (assuming all conducted similarly) no infections with less than serious illness were tracked/considered.
I know serious illness and death are all that matters, big picture, but I would think that infection with lesser symptoms would nonetheless affect the efficacy calculations? I naively thought that all trial subjects were monitored regardless.

As a layman, I can not think of other illnesses that are similar. The huge range of severity that is. To me along this journey that was the worst revelation that you could be infected and not have any symptoms. It created a mistrust of everyone

[Ms. Toad]

85. MS, or perhaps Lupus

seem to me to have pretty wide ranges of symptoms - but you're right - and I've heard doctors say the same thing. That's one of the things that is most troubling both about the illness. Far too many people focus solely on death, as if anything short of that was trivial.

Most trials would moniitor all outcomes. I'm not sure why this one didn't. Since it is the first vaccine of its type, they may have been unsure whehter it could suppress disease, rather than just symptoms, and wanted to make sure they could make the strongest case (i.e. a more impressive percent of effectiveness). There was a lot of uncertainty about availability of tests - so they may have wanted to make sure the tests weren't interrupted by lack of testing supplies. Testing everyone regularly (as they did once it was in use in a couple of tests) takes a lot more time and $$ - so, again - easier to get results and approval quickly (with less cost/risk of losing subjects).

[Laura PourMeADrink]

91. Very interesting. Is there a scientific/medical term

For that? - an illness that has a wide range of severity? From asymptomatic to death?

And I wonder if there's any correlation among diseases like these.

Likely totally off the wall theory I suppose. But a wife of our friend has Lupus. She contracted covid maybe a year ago. She has had a very rough time since then. She is now on oxygen 24/7 at home and can't sleep. Covid can certainly make other illnesses worse.

[Skittles]

21. there's an actual GOAL in mind

DEFEATING A PANDEMIC

[Yavin4]

52. What does victory look like? Zero covid cases? Not likely.

More likely is that fatalities are a much, much lower percentage of cases which is exactly what's happening. Cases are on the rise in the UK, but deaths are not surging as well. The same is true for Israel. Cases there are on the rise, but deaths are at near zero.

[wnylib]

67. Is that your sole criterion for safety? That

deaths are down?

So you are willing to live with permanent lung, heart, or kidney damage that could be prevented by not getting infected? It's ok to live with fatigue, weakness and brain fog for the rest of someone's life as long as they didn't die? It's ok with you if the virus remains active in large numbers of the population, constantly mutating to produce more contagious and lethal variants?

Other diseases have been eradicated. This one could be, too, IF people made the effort.

[Yavin4]

69. No. Hospitalizations and severe illnesses are also not surging with new cases.

Most of the new cases among the vaccinated are asymptomatic. It's simply not possible to completely eradicate the virus and have the same type of life that everyone has become accustomed to.

[wnylib]

74. OK, quality of life over quantity.

Anyway, you have nothing to worry about. Nobody is making masks mandatory. WHO is just giving a heads up about infection rates.

You are free to go maskless, and those of us who want to wear masks are free to do so. Nothing has changed in that regard.

[SheltieLover]

77. Agreed, Wyn!

Just get vaxed & exercise precautions.

[wnylib]

80. I just looked up some info

on breakthrough infections regarding hospitalizations and deaths.

In the US as of June 7 - 3459 cases of hospitalization or death from breakthrough infections.

June 18, the number was 3729

Today it is 4115.

Those are good numbers (except for the victims), but it was steadily increasing. The CDC says that the numbers are undercounted because they rely on voluntary unsolicited reporting.

76% of deaths and hospitalizations of vaccinated people were over 65.

In one week in the UK, there were 73 deaths from Delta. 26 of those people (about 1/3) were fully vaccinated.

For healthy, vaccinated people under 65, the risks are very minimal. For vaccinated people under 65 with underlying conditions, the risks increase. Vaccinated people over 65 with underlying conditions are the most at risk IF they have a breakthrough infection. I fall into that category, which is why I am still masking and distancing. If I get a breakthrough infection, it will not be asymptomatic. It will be serious.

So people can assess their own risks and decide what to do.

[HUAJIAO]

22. I agree with most of what you say, including your last 2 sentences...

Just not the optional vaccination route....

If anti-vaxxers choose to kill themselves, they can have it as far as I am concerned.

BUT, when their selfishness impacts MY life, with the chance of more lockdowns, closed events, NO ORCHESTRA rehearsals and concerts, for example, then they damn well should get vaccinated... it is just caring for the rest of society.

It 'should' not be a personal choice. Kids have had to get vaccinated to go to school for ages....

[Ms. Toad]

28. You are not merely taking the risk of asmptomatic or milder disease.

There are very serious cases and death in breakthrough cases. Four have been reported on DU either by the individual who experienced it - or by a 1st degree relative. In breakthrough cases, death is the outcome in about the same proportion (around 2%) as it is in those who have not been vaccinated.

Not all children have mild cases - and they are not yet eligible for vaccination. They can have the same mix of symptoms as adults (including heart damage from even asymptomatic COVID) - and children are also the only ones who develop MIS-C - a serious related syndrome that only impacts children

[wnylib]

43. Children under 12 are not vaccinated. They are getting Delta

at the same rate as unvaccinated adults. Even when children have mild cases, they are vulnerable to lung and heart damage.

[uponit7771]

7. Does the WHO have any data indicating Delta variant is killing fully vaccinated?

[LisaL]

8. Why does it have to kill?

Even so called mild covid can have long term consequences.

[uponit7771]

9. True, does the WHO have any data on the effects of the Delta variant on the fully vaccinated?

[ZonkerHarris]

11. half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated

The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, prompting the government there to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures.

[drray23]

14. the point is not whether they were infected.

it is whether it resulted in hospitalization or death, wether they can pass it along.
If you read the article they have 750 breakthrough cases, 23 of them ended up hospitalized, no dead.
As far as transmission, it is currently the consensus of most scientists that once vaccinated you cant pass it along even if you catch it, your viral load is too little for that.
Unless and until the CDC and Fauci, etc.. tells us they have new data showing its not true, I think we are fine.

[ZonkerHarris]

24. No offense but I'll listen to the scientists at the WHO over your "I think"

[erronis]

27. I think the "long Covid" problems, perhaps without symptoms that cause hospitalization

could be the real problem.

If an individual is infected and asymptomatic, could they still suffer some of the effects of the infection such as brain fog (and worse)?

I'm not sure we know yet whether those vaccinated and still contracting Covid exhibit long-term effects.

[wnylib]

46. Do you really believe that Delta is "safe"

as long as it doesn't kill people who are vaccinated? What a low bar for a disease that can cause lung, hesrt, and kidney damage in asymptomatic people as well as in people with mild or serious infections.

The WHO says in the article that masks are necessary to prevent spreading of Delta since even vacconated people can get it.

I'll take my cue from the experts.

[ramen]

25. This confuses me, too. I had thought the whole point

of the vaccine is that it vastly reduces spread to others, even in breakthrough cases, and virtually eliminates the possibility of serious health consequences even in the event of breakthrough. I don't understand how it can be the case that those things are true but also that immunized people should continue to mask.

I don't mins wearing mine but I don't understand how this comports with the harm reduction data.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. When they did the drug trial they did it against the original covid

virus-Alpha. That's why the numbers are so crazy on Delta there's no efficacy number to be locked down nor test group to follow. Best I can tell what they're doing now it's looking at the data. And determining efficacy based on how many vaccinated people get Delta.

[LisaL]

48. Yep, and in Israel half of infected adults were fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

And in UK, 20% of infected were vaccinated (not sure what vaccine breakdown in UK is), but Israel used Pfizer almost exclusively.
So delta clearly can get through vaccines, even mRNA vaccines.

[uponit7771]

71. Shit ... found rate (link) and it does state the effect . Thx for the info, will keep tuned in

https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-says-indoor-mask-rule-could-be-back-friday-as-daily-cases-top-200/

He noted that while case numbers have been on the rise, the number of seriously ill patients remained low.

So it doesn't look like there are more being hospitalized or dying from the Delta variant, still make me feel like we're pulling out of NPI too fast

[wnylib]

51. The original advice about vaccines preventing

spread of covid was based on the earlier Alpha (UK) variant. Delta has changed the picture, as cases in Israel demonstrate. Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world. Delta is the dominant variant there. Half of new infections in Israel are in fully vaccinated people.

And now there is a spinoff of Delta being called Delta Plus.

[LisaL]

53. Covid is putting up variants faster than we can create/test/manufacture boosters for them.

NT

[wnylib]

57. That is exactly what many people have

feared would happen and warned us about. It is another reason to wear masks - to prevent further spread and more variants.

[Pobeka]

36. NY times had an article about deaths of vaxed nursing home residents

Sorry I don't have a link (I'm on my crummy little tablet because of the heat).

IIRC it was about a month ago and there were a couple of nursing homes in Michigan and Ohio?

Unvaxxed workers carried covid in and 4 or 5 vaxxed residents died after being infected

[ZonkerHarris]

10. it's not about killing, it's about spreading the virus.

[Phoenix61]

15. This and becoming an unwilling vector for Delta 3.0. nt

[Hugin]

18. Or patient zero for Delta Plus Plus...

Believe me, it wouldn't look good on your resume or headstone.

[SheltieLover]

35. WSJ puished stats out of Israel - up tp 50% fully vaxed infected with delta

While they might be mostly milder cases, those & asymptomatic infections can result in long-haul.

I'm still masking, with so many unknowns with delta & delta us.

Stay safe!

[lame54]

76. Hoe about is the viral load enough to csuse illness or spread it

[uponit7771]

79. Right, from the IMH it doesn't look like it so far

[HariSeldon]

19. There comes a point

...where the ones I'm primarily protecting by masking are the very freeloaders refusing to take the vaccine themselves. I am well aware of populations (those under 12, immune compromised, or allergic to the vaccines) that are still vulnerable if I, even as a fully vaccinated individual, become infected. (I disinclude those with "religious objections"; their God or whatever can save them or not, so long as they are not medical professionals!) But I feel a certain draw to the idea I could participate in normalizing masklessness, a collective behavior that will have the most serious consequences for primarily (though sadly not exclusively) the jerks refusing to vaccinate...enhancing both the advantages of vaccinating (more maskless activities) and the disadvantages of not vaccinating (more transmissibility in unmasked crowds).

I know it's petty, but there is an instinctive drive to punish those exhibiting anti-social behavior, prioritizing their own comfort above the safety of their community. We have already tried appeals to altruism and safety of family. In my county, that hasn't even gotten us to 50% yet (where the state overall is nearing 70%). Maybe it's time to add an appeal to fear, too. This is, after all, a noticeably redder part of the state... and sadly, because there are so many other wonderful things about the area. If my going maskless encourages these idiots to get their damn vaccine, I'm willing to try it.

[LifeLongDemocratic]

20. Time to thin the heard

Since the majority of those not vaccinated at this point are Trumpers then its okay to spread the virus to those unvaccinated. Its time to thin out the Republican voting public. I know it sounds harsh but our democracy and our planet (climate change) are at risk. Everyone I care about is vaccinated so their not at risk. Let the morons die off already.

[ZonkerHarris]

26. actually the majority of those unvaccinated are not trumpers, they are the less developed countries

of the world.
This is a global issue not just an American one.

[leftstreet]

33. +1

[TexasBushwhacker]

32. I just don't want to be mistaken for a Republican

So I will continue to wear my mask.

[Vdizzle]

45. I feel the same way!

But up here in Seattle if you are wearing a mask, some might think you’re an anti vaxxer. But I still wear one even though I am vaxxed. It’s just an extra level of comfort.

[Lucky Luciano]

55. Masks should not be a political statement!

Last edited Mon Jun 28, 2021, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Their use should be a public health policy based on scientific evidence.

[TexasBushwhacker]

96. Of course. Unfortunately, they HAVE become a political statement

Anyway, another reason I wear mine is to protect myself from the Delta variant, or any other new ones that come along.

[Shermann]

34. The WHO guidance is reasonable for the world

...but the CDC recommendations are focused on the US and the last I heard vaccinated people can still ditch the masks here.

[LisaL]

37. That's what Israel believed, until delta hit.

Now they are reinstating the mask mandate.

[Pobeka]

39. yup. I don't see it happening in USA.

Mask mandates again that is.

[Shermann]

40. There are some trends to be concerned with

Israel's new cases are concerning, but relatively low.

UK and Russia are VERY concerning.

There are early signs of a resurgence in the US.

[LisaL]

42. Low so far in Israel.

But covid can grow exponentially.
Both in UK and Israel delta covid infects a decent number of fully vaccinated.
Russia has low vaccination rates, so it's going to be even worse there. US runs a month or so behind UK.
So, yes, it is likely going to resurge here too.

[uponit7771]

72. I think its low but its the rate of climb that IHM is concerned about.

[LisaL]

75. Small outbreak can easily turn into a big outbreak.

Especially if people are not wearing masks and not socially distancing. Which is why I find out what is being done in the US incredibly stupid.

[DesertRat]

54. Delta variant is more transmissible but less deadly

Link to tweet

[LisaL]

58. It's not less deadly.

Vaccination still prevent most deaths and hospitalizations.
But even "mild" covid can have long term consequences.
And calling it less deadly is ridiculous.
Look at what is going on in countries with low vaccination rates before calling it less deadly.

[DesertRat]

70. As the tweet I posted says

“Vaccines work. Fear mongering doesn’t.”

The science says those of us who are fully vaccinated don’t need to wear masks. Until the data changes I’m not wearing a mask where it’s optional.

[LisaL]

73. Whose science says fully vaccinated don't need to wear masks?

You don't realize we are discussing WHO saying fully vaccinated should still wear masks?

[Hugin]

87. According to some of these posters, scientists only reside at the CDC. n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

84. Lisa what do you think about the subject of sequencing for Delta?

Like I've said before, I read in the Texas Tribune that private labs in Texas aren't identifying the Delta variant. Primarily because the sequencing costs $100 and takes longer to produce a result.

I am wondering how all the other countries are dealing with this.

[Marthe48]

60. As we hope and pray, Covid hops and preys

I am still doing my routines, and will keep on doing them. I said in 2019, probably the rest of my life.

[ZonkerHarris]

93. same here

[Hekate]

82. Welcome to DU, HystericalCultists

Enjoy your stay

[Hugin]

86. Back again?

Someone with nearly the same username was removed late last week.

Hysterical? Hmm... Sounds a little "-ist" don't you think?

[Hekate]

94. Busy, busy, they are. But MIRT has such speedy delivery service if you notice ....

…the trolls when they’re small.

[Happy Hoosier]

88. Is this a "gut call?"

Or is there data backing this. The evidence I’ve seen suggest vaccinated people have a high degree of protection from the Delta variant.

[LisaL]

89. Data indicates even vaccinated can get infected with delta (from Israel and UK numbers).

In Israel, half of infected adults were vaccinated. In UK, 20 % of all infected were vaccinated.

[Happy Hoosier]

95. No vaccine is 100% effective.

The Israel data set is thin, and the UK numbers still suggest a high degree of protection.

I mean if filks are nervous, bu all means, but the data set is ambiguous to me…