What to do with the 1/6/21 un American rioters? Strip all of them of their US citizenship.

[Botany]

Strip all of them of their US citizenship and give them 60 days to leave the country.

Except for the leadership of that movement and they should get the Super-Max prison in Colorado.

[Fiendish Thingy]

1. Nope. That's what they want to do- repeal birthright citizenship

It baffles me why some progressives quickly take fascist points of view when it suits their own need for vengeance…

[Effete Snob]

8. +1

“I only like the Constitution when I get what I want.”

[Hortensis]

12. Extremist leanings and traits manifest similarly on both right and left.

The reasons claimed are different, not so much the behaviors. Political scientists say extremism and hostile reactionism are growing and spreading across the political spectrum.

One big expert on why democracies fall to authoritarian governments, when asked what worried citizens should look for, said simply, "Look for mean people."

[Ocelot II]

15. I don't get it either. I guess some of us would rip up the Constitution for "our" side.

Happy Independence Day, right?

Hint: If you're OK with ripping up the Constitution you're not on our side.

[Progressive Jones]

19. There's nothing fascist about it. They need to be removed from this society. They attacked the US.

These aren't innocent civilians being singled out by a dictator for some political reason. They aren't any different than any other anti-US terrorists. They hate the American way, despite their bullshit claims of being "patriots".

Life in prison, or exile. I prefer exile because otherwise the taxpayer foots the bill to keep this shit alive in prison.

I also believe that the most violent deserve execution, but I know that won't happen.

[Ocelot II]

24. If there's no legal or statutory basis for doing that - and there isn't - then doing it anyhow

would be just as fascist as the insurrectionists' unlawful attempt to prevent the certification of the election. We have laws on the books under which they can be prosecuted, and we need to follow those laws or we're as bad as they are.

[Bucky]

76. Choose your enemies carefully, for you may become them.

You can fight fire with fire, but fighting fascism with fascism is just ignorant. Stripping born-Americans of citizenship is unconstitutional no matter how sincerely you dislike someone else's politics.

Something else to remember about fighting fascists -- it serves their interests if you descend into hysterical overreactions like this. You fight outlaws with better laws, you fight injustice with justice. You don't win by buying into the paradigms and methods of people who hate civilization and justice.

[paleotn]

28. You don't attempt to heal tissue that's malignant.

It can't be healed. So you're left with cutting it out and remove it due to the danger it poses to the rest of the body.

Secondly, they forfeited their birth right citizenship thru armed rebellion. THEY, on the other hand, want to forfeit birth right citizenship just because someone's brown. Big difference, don't you think?

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. If you give the government the power to strip *anyone* of their citizenship, it's fascism

Fascists don’t care about your nuanced differences in the reasons for losing citizenship.

[paleotn]

42. Then we're left with a conundrum.

Under current legal interpretations, we can't strip them of their citizenship unless they renounce it. Yet, we can't keep them for fear they will just breed more insurrectionists. Fascist are always going to bend things to their view and could care less if we stick to the letter of the law. Making an example of them thru extralegal means won't change that fact, but may give others a moment of pause before they physically assault the seat of our government.

Of course, my argument is prefaced on the idea that they're irrecoverable. Maybe we can change their views on democracy. Evidence so far doesn't point to that.

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. Since your views on democracy seemed to be aligned with the insurrectionists, no convincing needed

You condone the use of “extra-legal” measures to satisfy your lust for revenge, just as the insurrectionists did on January 6.

If you want to protect democracy, then don’t abandon its most basic tenants to satisfy your own selfish desires.

A long prison term should serve as a strong deterrent, and removes the offenders from the pool of potential future insurrectionists.

[paleotn]

50. Sorry, it's not revenge. It's preserving our democracy.

And we just have differing views on how to do that, given recent events. That doesn't make either of us aligned with insurrectionists or soft on them. And, yes, you do make very good points. My point is that in extreme cases to save the democracy we have to go outside of it. Like Lincoln suspending habeas corpus and ignoring SCOTUS from time to time. Both patently illegal, but he did those things because he felt he had to in order to fulfill his oath to protect and defend the Constitution.

[Fiendish Thingy]

55. So, like Viet Nam, we have to destroy the village in order to defend it. Nt

[Progressive Jones]

69. The government has the power to put them away for decades. One of those assholes,

a woman from Indiana, was just sentenced to 3 years probation. Major. Government. Failure.

Prosecutors should not be plea bargaining. The charges should be greater. Max sentences should be the standard.

If we're not going to treat them as terrorists, if we're going to treat them like party hearty frat punks,
where is the deterrence? Where is the harsh punishment they deserve?

[Fiendish Thingy]

71. If your strategy was followed, most of the conspirators would get no jail time

Because the little fish would have no incentive to rat them out.

The woman who got probation for nonviolent trespassing provided access to her photos and social media, which will likely bolster the prosecution of numerous others, maybe some who haven’t been charged yet.

Have you heard about the Oathkeepers QRF who stashed weapons in a hotel just across the river? They would likely go free or get minimal sentences if it wasn’t for the cooperation deals with the prosecution.

Without cooperation deals with some of the insurrectionists, it will not be possible to crush the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers and 3%er’s as organizations.

Don’t you want Roger Stone, Ali Alexander, Gosar, Brooks, etc. to go to jail? That isn’t happening without cooperation deals with little fish.

The blindness to reality created by your lust for revenge only further strengthens the argument for the Rule Of Law vs. Emotional Fascism.

[Progressive Jones]

73. I know how plea bargaining works.

These aren't ordinary, run of the mill crimes that we're talking about here.

This was an attack on our entire nation, not just the Capitol building. If my lust for teaching this garbage a lesson they'll never forget, which would be justice being served,, is seen by some as a "lust for vengeance", so be it.

This shit was arrested and charged based on photos and video proving that they were there.
I'm aware that some of them didn't commit violent acts. Do you really think that soccer mom who got the 3 months probation gave the Feds info on any really big fish? I doubt it, but I don't know for sure. Hopefully that's in the court documents.

Mere presence inside the building should warrant some jail time, say the max for the crime(s) they were charged with. Even if only 6 months, or a year. How does leniency deter these mutts from trying this again, or deter another group of them from attempting another stunt like this?

I think it's a huge mistake, and a sign of weakness,, to coddle these terrorists.

[Fiendish Thingy]

74. Other than this one case, you don't know if sentences will be lenient. Nt

[Progressive Jones]

75. We shall see, but in the end, I believe that few will get what they deserve. nt

[treestar]

63. +1

[mopinko]

2. exile works for me.

send them to gitmo if they dont 'self-deport'.

[Treefrog]

41. I remember when du disapproved of Gitmo.

Fascinating.

[Jedi Guy]

53. I feel like people around here should be mindful of what Nietzsche had to say...

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

I chose my signature line for a reason. There's a subset of people on DU who are willing to use monstrous tactics to achieve otherwise noble ends. But you can't unring that bell, and tyranny is tyranny no matter who's perpetrating it.

[FoxNewsSucks]

3. Sounds good to me.

It's actually the most lenient thing I think they deserve.

I doubt that there are enough of our elected officials with the willpower to follow through on that.

[Ocelot II]

21. I doubt there are enough Democrats among our elected officials

that would be as willing to crap on the Constitution as the insurrectionists. "Willpower" sounds a little too much like Leni Riefenstahl for my liking.

[FoxNewsSucks]

34. I read through the thread again,

and see your valid point. The law apparently doesn't provide for an adequate punishment for this kind of insurrection.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm guessing there's enormous desire to see the Q-MF45 traitors face consequences as severe as their action. Rightwing criminal scumbags always seem to walk with a slap on the wrist. If even that.

[FreepFryer]

4. Declare them enemy combatants and let the republicans fight to undo their own erosive policies. (Nt)

[Angleae]

66. Them and any organization they belong to.

Proud Boys, Three Percenters, etc.

[Effete Snob]

5. Now there's a real American idea!

Let’s rip up the Constitution because some people wanted to, uh, rip up the Constitution.

[Ocelot II]

17. Authoritarianism comes full circle.

[stillcool]

6. something like repatriation...

lots of doctors and a fair amount of drugs.

[vlyons]

7. We already have law against insurrection

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[Hugin]

13. +1

Now enforce it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. Thank you for this citation...I will use it. And of course this is what should be done

to ANYONE who went inside that day.

[LifeLongDemocratic]

9. Felons

Slap felony charges on all of them. They will no longer have right to vote.

[Treefrog]

44. But wait!

I thought du was all in favor of felons voting?

SO confusing here sometimes.

[LifeLongDemocratic]

61. Irony

It’s called irony.

[NCjack]

10. Conviction of a felony and more than 1 year in prison

for those who cooperate with prosecutor is sufficient.

Cooperation destroys trust with their gangs and a felony conviction + time keeps them out of the military and civil service. That is sufficient isolation.

[KS Toronado]

11. I feel 20 years in prison for their insurrection would be a good start.

[Botany]

16. And then deport them? I'm good with that.

And then let 'em go to a limited government "free market" place such as Somalia.
Sean Hannity could go along too.

[KS Toronado]

27. Tucker Q Carlson needs to go with his buddy

Don't want them to get lonely.

[Botany]

29. Tucker doesn't just say all those stupid "red meat" comments they are written for him to say ...

... in order to keep his name and or Fox News upfront in the news cycle and they are designed to
distract from any real news. (such as adding 800,000 new jobs last month) But people fall for
"it" every time.

But hey if Hannity and Carlson wind up in a "free market limited government" place like Somalia
I'm good w/that.

[Ocelot II]

58. Which relevant federal statute provides for a 20-year sentence?

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Can't strip citizenship unless the citizen wants to reject it...

Besides, this is a horrible idea. There are plenty of laws to punish them for what they did.

[Ocelot II]

18. Well, they wanted to ignore the Constitution, so why shouldn't we?

[mwooldri]

46. Unless citizen was naturalized American.

My understanding is that the Secretary of State can strip citizenship of immigrants who become naturalized Americans. Citizens through birth or descent cannot be stripped per constitution.

[TreasonousBastard]

51. That's true. Didn't mention it because typing on my phone...

is a real pain.

[keithbvadu2]

20. New republican meme of Trump's regime::: Russia is our friend

New republican meme of Trump's regime::: Russia is our friend

Do they need donations for a ticket to their new homeland?

[meow2u3]

22. Loss of citizenship law, per Legal Information Institute

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Stripping the 1/6 insurrectionists of their citizenship may well be doable, per section (a) (7) of this law. They just have to be accused and/or convicted of trying to overthrow the government forcibly.

On second thought, it might not be doable. We have laws protecting people from becoming stateless.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1483

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (6) and (7) of section 1481(a) of this title, no national of the United States can lose United States nationality under this chapter while within the United States or any of its outlying possessions, but loss of nationality shall result from the performance within the United States or any of its outlying possessions of any of the acts or the fulfillment of any of the conditions specified in this Part if and when the national thereafter takes up a residence outside the United States and its outlying possessions.

[Botany]

25. Any doubt that many in that group would have hung Speaker Pelosi or Mike Pence because ....

Last edited Sun Jul 4, 2021, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

... they were "free-dumb" fighters.

[Fiendish Thingy]

36. Important part you missed:

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (6) and (7) of section 1481(a) of this title, no national of the United States can lose United States nationality under this chapter while within the United States or any of its outlying possessions, but loss of nationality shall result from the performance within the United States or any of its outlying possessions of any of the acts or the fulfillment of any of the conditions specified in this Part if and when the national thereafter takes up a residence outside the United States and its outlying possessions.

[treestar]

65. It's not practical as we cannot deport them

we can't force another country to take them.

[Demsrule86]

23. No, that is a road we would never want to go down...Americans are citizens period. Put them in

prison for a suitable amount of time.

[JohnSJ]

26. Only way that can be done is for treason, or if they renounce it themselves

[paleotn]

32. See post 20.

It would appear at least two yokels did just that.

[RainCaster]

30. Nobody else would want these clowns, we're stuck with 'em

So charge them with a long list of felonies, then let them experience:
* a year of prison
* a lifetime of difficulty getting solid employment
* having to explain your conviction to every bank, employer, etc. Many of whom will be very judgemental about your "patriotic" actions.

We can't force these idiots out to the rest of the world, nobody would want them. They are ours to keep.

[Politicub]

39. And no holding of federal office. N/t

[Joinfortmill]

35. Excellent idea

[Politicub]

37. U.S. code for sedition

While I share your sentiment, I’m also okay with the remedy in the federal code:

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

The seditionists are not being charged in this way, though. That’s frustrating, but I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know all of the ins and outs with federal sentencing.

[brooklynite]

38. What a horrible idea...

Next time the Republicans control the White House (yes, it will happen) you want them to have the right to do the same?

[TreasonousBastard]

52. I said it was a horrible idea above-- I do not want to give that...

kind of power to anyone who walks around with nooses.

Some already talk of shooting Biden. Imagine if they had the full House...

[agingdem]

40. Guantanamo Bay "houses" 9/11 terrorist so how about

the 1/6 domestic terrorists...

[niyad]

43. since all these traitors are ignorant about American history, how about each one of them

being required to read out loud, into recorders, various foundational and important documents and books.

We could start off with this list:

Declaration of Independence
US Constitution, with all amendments
"Lies Your Tacher Told You"
"A People's History of the United States"
"An Indigenous People's History of the United States"
"Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee"
"History of Women's Suffrage"
"The Women's Bible"

Feel free to add to this list.

[Botany]

45. How about the complete 2nd amendment to the Constitution? The well regulated part.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[niyad]

49. did you miss the part that said US Constitution, with all amendments?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. No.

[leftyladyfrommo]

54. Deport them to a fascist country abd make them live

there for a year.

[totodeinhere]

56. No, under our system of justice a citizen convicted of a crime does not lose American citizenship.

However, a non citizen may be deported if convicted of a felony.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

57. The judge should give 200 hours of civics class

so they can learn how people were denied the right to vote and protest injustice, unless they were like 1/6 trump white dumb trump voters.

Maybe they understand what they did was wrong after that

[Hekate]

59. That is not how it works in the US

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. "Leave the country" how?

You've stripped them of their citizenship. So any passport they had is invalid, and no transportation company is going to take them. Canada and Mexico will stop them at a border they try to drive or walk across. You've said to another country "these Americans, they're your problem now". The other country will say "sod off, deal with your own problems".

Why not, you know, enforce the laws against rioting etc., rather than making up unworkable punishments on a whim?

[Botany]

67. I'm sorry M. V. do you really think I thought this out before posting?

botany =

[treestar]

62. Unconstitutional

Can only be done voluntarily

[Initech]

64. That wouldn't last 5 minutes in court.

[struggle4progress]

68. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

are citizens of the United States ..."

[nuxvomica]

70. Not doable, but stripping "sovereign citizens" might be

So-called "sovereign citizens" who declare that they are not under the jurisdiction of US law invite revocation of citizenship in line with the 14th Amendment, which excludes those not under US jurisdiction from enjoying birthright citizenship. The exclusion is meant to cover those born in the US to foreign diplomats and other government officials who can argue diplomatic immunity but it doesn't explicitly limit it to them. I say of you use the "sovereign citizen" defense in court, it's tantamount to renouncing your citizenship, and Congress would not be prevented by the 14th Amendment from passing a law saying that is automatic revocation. Or course, once that law is passed, fewer people would make that argument, which would at least decimate that dangerous movement. It might possibly be extended to so-called "constitutional sheriffs", who make a similar but less obvious jurisdictional argument. This would at least solve the problem of people like Ammon Bundy, and possibly even the Joe Arpaios of the country as well, and is likely to cover many though not all of the insurrectionists.

[DFW]

72. More humiliating:

Make them take the citizenship test all immigrants have to pass before acquiring U.S Citizenship.

Deny citizenship to those who fail the test, and make them apply like any other foreigner.

[MineralMan]

77. There is no mechanism for removing citizenship from

anyone born in the United States. They are automatically citizens and that citizenship cannot be revoked.

Naturalized citizens, on the other hand, can have their citizenship revoked under very narrow conditions.

It's interesting to learn what people don't know.