White supremacy protest in Philadelphia on the eve of July 4th

[Nevilledog]

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Will Bunch
@Will_Bunch
Stunning photos by my Inquirer colleague Jessica Griffin of the march through Philadelphia by the far-right-extremist group Patriot Front -- right near Independence Hall on the eve of July 4

White supremacy protest in Philadelphia on the eve of July 4th
The Patriot Front, a white supremacy group, marched through Philadelphia on the eve of July 4th. They arrived loaded in several Penske trucks. The group marched down the Benjamin Franklin Parkway,...
inquirer.com
3:47 AM · Jul 4, 2021

https://www.inquirer.com/photo/right-wing-protest-near-independence-hall-eve-july-4th-philadelphia-20210704.html





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[Marrah_Goodman]

1. I find this frightening.

[Blue_true]

4. They will be scary when they do it and show their faces.

They are just cowards hiding from consequences.

[Ohio Joe]

2. Terrorists...

And they should be charged as such.

[Jedi Guy]

6. They have every right to peaceably assemble and protest/march, same as everyone else. N/T

[Ohio Joe]

8. If only that was their intent...

White supremacists march to terrorize... Those who "peaceably assemble" don't come with riot shields or smoke bombs to throw at counter protesters... They don't try to flee hidden in the back of rented moving trucks. They don't spread messages of hate and fear.

They are terrorists and should be treated as such.

[Jedi Guy]

9. The only illegal action you noted there is throwing smoke bombs at people.

So yeah, if they do that, I agree that they should be arrested, charged, and have their day in court. If they want to carry shields, there's no law against that as far as I know, nor is there a law against wearing masks or using rented moving trucks. Lastly, as long as they don't fall foul of the Brandenburg test, the First Amendment protects their freedom of speech whether you like what they have to say or not.

[Ohio Joe]

10. The Brandenburg test applies to inciting others to violence...

It does not cover trying to terrorize people. They showed up looking to instill fear and show off their hatred of those they find inferior.

[Jedi Guy]

11. Exactly, they'd have to incite violence which is both imminent and likely to occur.

As for the rest, you are incorrect. Look up the SCOTUS case National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie (1977). They have every right to assemble and march as long as they remain peaceful, your authoritarian impulses notwithstanding.

[Ohio Joe]

14. Well... You make a good case for nazis

Of course... They did incite violence by throwing smoke bombs but... I guess you forgot that already so just have to keep defending them.

[Jedi Guy]

15. No, I make a good case for freedom of expression.

As I've already said upthread, if they threw smoke bombs at people, they need to be arrested, charged, and have their day in court. If they simply march peacefully, it's all good. See, that word "if" is important, but you deliberately overlook it to paint me as defending them and their views. That's incredibly dishonest of you.

The position you're espousing, which is that they should face legal consequences for their views, is incredibly un-American and runs squarely counter to the freedom of expression guaranteed by the First Amendment. Advocating for the arrest of those whose views you dislike is, quite simply, advocating for tyranny. Fortunately, as I mentioned, your authoritarian impulses are checked by the Constitution. Too bad for you, I suppose.

[Ohio Joe]

16. There is no "if"...

Read the article and look at the pictures. I never said they should face legal consequences for speech rather for being terrorists. But you know... Keep defending them

[Jedi Guy]

17. Throwing a smoke bomb isn't terrorism.

You said, "It does not cover trying to terrorize people. They showed up looking to instill fear and show off their hatred of those they find inferior." That sure sounds to me like you'd like them to be arrested simply for being there, before they actually did anything. But you know... keep advocating for tyranny.

[Ohio Joe]

18. Yes... Stopping nazis is tyranny

But nice cherry pick of my words while once again forgetting your own. See... That was in response to your failed defense trying to use the Brandenburg test for protest instead of speech.

Twice now you have said "if" they threw bombs... They did. Why keep pretending it is a question?

[Jedi Guy]

19. Okay, then they should be arrested, charged, and have their day in court. Happy now?

But their views, and marching to express those views, are protected forms of expression, notwithstanding your authoritarian impulses. Showing off their hatred and instilling fear, as you put it, isn't illegal unless it crosses a very narrow line, which is the Brandenburg test. Your argument is the exact argument made in the Skokie Affair, and it failed in the Supreme Court because it runs counter to the First Amendment.

[Ohio Joe]

20. Except that you keep putting words in my mouth... Yes

Glad to see you admit the nazis were wrong.

"Showing off their hatred and instilling fear, as you put it, isn't illegal unless it crosses a very narrow line, which is the Brandenburg test."

Brandenburg is speech that incites others... Instilling fear towards a political aim is terrorism. When an open white supremacist group travels from TX to PA in riot gear and carrying bombs, they are terrorists. What do you think their aim was? Just getting out the word about white genocide?

Seems they have also been up to other stuff:

"Shira Goodman from the league's Philadelphia chapter told The Philadelphia Inquirer that the group had recently been distributing leaflets, posting stickers, and spraying graffiti throughout the Philadelphia suburbs and Lehigh Valley and conducting flash mob-like meetings later posted on social media."

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/pennsylvania/articles/2021-07-04/group-described-as-white-supremacists-march-in-philadelphia

But yeah... We have to protect the poor oppressed white man

[Jedi Guy]

21. Speaking of putting words in the mouths of others...

"We have to protect the poor oppressed white man." Swing and a miss. Not even close to anything I said.

Near as I can tell, it's not illegal to possess smoke bombs or riot gear in the state of Pennsylvania, and it's clearly not illegal to march and air their views, even though those views are repugnant. Once they chuck a smoke bomb, though, they can and should be arrested and charged, but it seems to me that you're in favor of them being arrested just for showing up.

Suppose the counterprotesters arrived in riot gear and also possessed smoke bombs, and further suppose that they then threw those smoke bombs. Would you be in favor of them being arrested and charged with terrorism? Are they not instilling fear towards a political aim? Or is it only terrorism when you don't like the political aim in question?

As for the other stuff they've been up to, the only crime I see is graffiti. Or should they be arrested for distributing leaflets?

[smirkymonkey]

22. +1000

They are a danger to society by what they represent. We all know what their intentions are, and the more we let them push, the more violent they will get. Technically they are terrorists.

The police are all over the place whenever there is a peaceful BLM or Anti-Fascist march, but somehow these hate groups always get a pass. Hell, they practically roll out the red carpet for them. This has got to change. It's got to stop.

[Blue_true]

3. Look like they have smartened up and don't show their faces anymore.

The realization that people don’t like working around fascists appear to finally be sinking into their thick skulls.

[TheRealNorth]

5. They look like a modern-day Sturmabteilung (Nazi SA)

I guess brown or black shirts would have been too obvious, so they chose blue instead.

[Marrah_Goodman]

7. That was my immediate thought also.

I am sure that is by design.

[Midnight Writer]

12. Agitprop. They came all the way from Texas to find a spot for maximum response.

Like Nazis marching through Skokie, IL.

Violent response is what they are looking for.

[gldstwmn]

13. They seem pretty well organized.

Who is putting up the money for this?