Surfside Condo Wreckage Hints at First Signs of Possible Construction Flaw

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

Engineers who have visited or examined photos of the wreckage of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex have been struck by a possible flaw in its construction: Critical places near the base of the building appeared to use less steel reinforcement than called for in the project’s original design drawings.

The observation is the first detail to emerge pointing to a potential problem in the quality of construction of the 13-story condo tower in Surfside, Fla., that collapsed last month, killing at least 24 and leaving at least 124 still unaccounted for.

Reached by phone, Allyn E. Kilsheimer, a forensic engineering expert hired by the town of Surfside to investigate the collapse, said the investigation was still in its early stages. But he confirmed there were signs that the amount of steel used to connect concrete slabs below a parking deck to the building’s vertical columns might be less than what the project’s initial plans specified.

“The bars might not be arranged like the original drawings call for,” Mr. Kilsheimer said in an interview. He said he would need to inspect the rubble more closely to determine whether in fact the slab-to-column connections contained less steel than expected.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/surfside-condo-wreckage-hints-at-first-signs-of-possible-construction-flaw/ar-AALJKsd

[malaise]

1. Classic Reagan building moment

We don't need any stinking regulations. Ah well!

[zentrum]

2. Yup. Reagan.

[former9thward]

10. Reagan?

The building plans were approved in 1979.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252325063.html

[PAMod]

12. What was approved...

Is apparently different to what was built.

As per the article.

[former9thward]

13. And Reagan who took office in Jan 1981

approved of it? Wow. That is the CT of the day.

[PAMod]

18. Wait, what did Reagan approve?

Isn’t the comment about the actual construction?

I don’t think anyone was pointing the finger at the plans - including the article.

I doubt we disagree -

[former9thward]

23. If someone thinks whoever was POTUS at the time

went around approving construction of condos in Miami, then I certainly disagree with that. Let's see the evidence.

[PAMod]

25. We'll, I certainly don't think that.

Just pointing out the argument you are having in your own head.

Good luck with that.

Peace.

[former9thward]

27. I guess you are not following the thread.

Good luck with that.

[zentrum]

28. Not the point.

The lack of regulations was growing in strength as a ideology and found its avatar in Reagan. Yes, it was before his tenure but it smacks of Reaganomics even though it predates him. He didn't arise out fo the blue. That was Malaise's point.

[former9thward]

29. Maybe we should wait for the reason for the collapse.

[brewens]

3. I was on a job one time where I saw a contractor ripping off a customer on materials.

We were hydroseeding lawns and were hired by a landscape contractor to spray the yard on a new house his guys were prepping. One of the common things they sell is a layer of eco-mulch. Kind of a scam, but maybe helpful if you built on poor soil.

So we're asked to be there real early in the morning. As soon as we show up and start spraying, one of their guys hops in this dumptruck with the load of mulch and heads on down the road. The homeowner was not there and never knew the eco-mulch he paid for never was spread on the yard. Our layer of seed/mulch/fertilizer mixture with dye covered up the evidence.

That kind of shit goes on all the time. I'm pretty sure that ripoff will never kill anyone, but something like a condo, inspectors need to be up their butts making sure they build shit right.

[zuul]

6. Construction scams happen all the time.

When the Corps of Engineers was rebuilding some of the breeched levees in and around New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, contractors were caught using old refrigerators and other old appliances as fill instead of the specified material.

AFTER Katrina. They knew people died because some levees failed but they did it anyway. The inspectors who were paid to be on-site during construction to ensure proper installation were bribed.

How often does this kind of shit go undetected? Scary!

[former9thward]

11. Did you report it?

[SWBTATTReg]

14. My same thought, did they report it? Seems like people are either cowed by the mob, or mgmt

is absent totally and thus, who would you complain to, or will the city/county/state authorities listen if one complains to them? I'm kind of curious w/ desantis meeting almost daily w/ the press etc. on the collapse of surfside building in FL, if state authorities, county authorities sidestepped some approval processes? After all, this whole interval of time in FL construction was going at a breakneck pace, w/ buildings going up everywhere, it must have been amazing, the last time I was there in FL (went all of the time), it was in the early 80s, and when I see all of the condos and such all along the coasts of FL, it amazes me.

[former9thward]

16. Bad things happen when good people do nothing.

I was a union representative at a major steel mill of 6000 people for 14 years. And I worked for OSHA investigating safety complaints for 14 years. It always irritated me when in the aftermath of an accident someone would come up to me and say " Yeah I knew something was going to happen, we knew about that problem for years."

[SWBTATTReg]

17. I'll bet ('yeah, I knew something..., knew about problem for years...'). Had to sometimes be a ...

kicker in the teeth/guts sometimes, on how/what people do in such situations, when confronted w/ a situation like this. I think a lot of people's reactions is that someone else will act on it, or let the other person report on it, etc. Human nature at its best, eh?

We had huge steel plants outside of STLMO in Granite City, IL. Tens of thousands worked there at the numerous plants all up and down the river in IL. My coworker's husband worked at one of these plants, she would tell me of the stuff going on at the plants, and the tribulations that workers had in trying to keep these plants open and running. It was a shame as these plants were a source of high income pay and now you see them all shuttered up, closed...smh.

[brewens]

19. Nope. That would have been up to my boss. He probably should have, but he did a lot of jobs

for that guy.

[leftieNanner]

20. Similar Story with rebar for concrete driveways

It was a low cost subdivision and all of the driveways were identical in shape around a cul-de-sac. The contractor would put down the rebar and have it inspected. As soon as the inspector left, he moved the rebar to the next driveway and poured the concrete (sans rebar). Then he had the next driveway inspected.

And on and on around the development. Saved the contractor a lot of money for all of those houses. By the time the driveways began to crack, he was long gone.

[XanaDUer2]

4. I wonder if it was built with laundered drug money?

it is Miami

[obamanut2012]

7. It actually probably was

An awful lot of these buildings in the 80s were used to launder money for whatever reason.

[redstatebluegirl]

5. Typical of many large building projects.

Customer wants the building built for millions less, safety suffers because builders will do anything to keep the contract.

[Baked Potato]

8. The main columns have just a couple pieces of rebar sticking out on each side.

I’m not an engineer, but that looks weak as a mofo. The construction videos I’ve watched show multiple crisscrossing of rebar around columns to prevent that punch-through failure.

[captain queeg]

9. QA vs QC

To save money it’s pretty common the require the contractor to do his own quality control, then turn in reports to the owner’s “quality assurance”. What could go wrong?

[moondust]

15. And the north tower?

Same crap?

And other towers?

[Dreampuff]

21. Some very Savory characters

Had a huge hand in the Champlain Towers deal. And a few of them weren't even from Miami.

https://nypost.com/2021/06/27/developers-of-fla-tower-were-accused-of-paying-off-officials/

[Earth-shine]

24. The word you want is "unsavory."

"Savory" is a good thing.

[Dreampuff]

26. I stand corrected

You are absolutely right!

[sop]

22. If contractors do skimp on materials, what better place to do it than concrete foundations.

It's hidden so no one finds out until the place collapses. And once the statute of limitation tolls and construction warranties run out they're home free.

For decades investigative reporters at the Miami Herald have been uncovering corruption in the construction industry, and documenting payoffs to county building inspectors. Every time it happens all the usual suspects sanctimoniously run before the tv cameras to promise more stringent regulations and increased oversight. Then it all gets flushed down the memory hole.

[pstokely]

30. the same thing happened at the Kansas City Hyatt (now Sheraton)

a change in the design during construction, how other malaise era buildings have these issues?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse