When will we see the Democratic Counterattack on the Republican attempt to destroy democracy?

[NewsCenter28]

Also, why do you think there has been no counterattack nearly as vigorous as the republican efforts to destroy democracy as of yet? Do you think leadership has decided to unveil it's counterattack closer to the midterms? What tools in our quiver do you see us using to stand up to the fascists? Why hasn't there been more vigorous action to stop the AZ audit and now the spread to try to cast aspersions on the PA election as well? Do you think President Biden understands the magnitude of the assault he is under or is it possible that due to how busy he is with you know actually governing the country, helping us navigate out of the pandemic, trying to pass a 2-track infrastructure bill, and restore the international alliances that Trump tried to destroy at Putin's behest, that he is not fully aware of the magnitude of the KGOP effort to destroy democracy due to everything else he has being thrown at him? I would argue, however, that the President should move the GOP effort to destroy democracy to the front of his agenda, as it is the most existential issue, other than climate change, that is on his desk at the moment.

It's important to note that Marc Elias is not a state actor. He is just a concerned citizen. We have yet to see a concerted federal government-level all-hands-on-deck hair on fire response to the assault on democracy. This is a profound national emergency and should be treated with every bit of seriousness as COVID-19.

Also, why did the GA prosecutor who was going to prosecute Trump and Graham for election interference in GA give up? Where are those charges?

Respectfully, I think the time to hold our fire is over and the time for action has arrived.

[Murphyb849]

1. I honestly do not know and agree it's time to defend our democracy

[Hortensis]

47. Well, if it was left to those who imagine nothing's happening,

we'd all be best off tucking our heads between our knees and thinking about how to survive in a RW police state.

As it happens, the vast majority of people have always been hauled forward, and back in bad times, by a relative few.

[FreepFryer]

2. What kind of "attack" is possible without further eroding democracy? That's the challenge. nt

[wnylib]

3. Regarding President Biden and whether

he is aware of the magnitude of the threats to democracy, I have some questions of ny own about why you are posing questions aimed at undermining confidence in his ability.

Given President Biden's frequent statements about being in a fight for the very soul of democracy, I have no doubt that he recognizes the magnitude of the problem. Given his lifetime of experience serving at the very core of democracy in Congress and as VP, he is the most qualified person - outside of the people and agencies actually presenting the threats - to deal with the situation. I have no doubt that he has the knowledge of government and the contacts with people in various fields to successfully address the complexities of the situation.

But I do have doubts about where you are coming from. You don't defend democracy with methods that undermine it with doubts from within.

[quaint]

7. +++++

[betsuni]

13. +1

[tazkcmo]

4. What counterattack would you suggest?

Aside from virtually every Dem calling out the Big Lie or legislative fixes like the ones currently being considered.

[betsuni]

5. Another "Why don't Democrats stop ___ ?" and "Biden/Democrats are naive/spineless/don't understand"

and "Why aren't Democrats using the same attacks and messaging as Republicans?" and "If I don't know about it, then Democrats aren't doing it" and "Democrats don't fight" thing.

[msfiddlestix]

10. why do suppose that is?

[betsuni]

12. Not understanding how government works. Assuming bad intentions/weakness for

Democrats not having large majorities in Congress and not having enough votes to pass legislation in the face of 100% obstruction from Republicans and 50-50 in the Senate, which gives every Democratic senator a veto (same as what happened with the ACA when there were exactly 60 filibuster-proof votes and conservative senators like Joe Lieberman demanded the public option be removed from the senate version of the ACA). Not paying attention.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Who, specifically?

Biden? Pelosi?

Give me an example of this counterattack

[msfiddlestix]

9. I realize you're not asking *me*..

the entire party leadership is my response. en mass.

[StarfishSaver]

16. What specifically should the party leadership do that it's not doing now

And how exactly will that result in a different outcome?

FYI, "get tougher" isn't a thing. Please be specific.

[msfiddlestix]

18. You're not really interested, so why do you ask this same question repeatedly?

Obviously you feel or think everything that can be done is being done.

We are in a sociological and political war. If the current response is all we consider to be sufficient in our political arsenal to wage counter attack, then we're truly effed, and severe loss lay ahead.

[StarfishSaver]

19. Actually, I am interested

You seem certain there's something they're not doing that will work. I'd like to know what that is.

[msfiddlestix]

24. The tepid response to Jan 6th, the lack of response to the so called audits,

You seem to be in denial wrt to the existential threat, and you're like: 'we're all good now'. What's the problem, we have Biden in the White House, and Pelosi hanging on to a thread, Schumer doing the best with what he has to work with.

A major gap between your understanding and mine which gives us no common ground to hash out ideas for counter attack, as though the idea of ratcheted up political counter response is unproductive, like we're living in some other era where Republicans were just "fiscal conservatives" ... other wise friends we can have fellowship with while we "agree to disagree" on political issues.

That isn't the reality of where this country is. And we have to understand this fact collectively or we are truly effed.

Can't spell it out more clearly than that.

[StarfishSaver]

31. Not responsive to my question at all

But okay...

[mcar]

37. Please point to where the poster said

"We're all good now."

[msfiddlestix]

40. i didn't use actual qoatation mars, the marks I used imply a certain frame of mind, not a quoted

statement.

[mcar]

42. You know her frame of mind?

[msfiddlestix]

46. with a whole lot of practice, almost to perfection.

[msfiddlestix]

28. well, I guess we can write a book, you and I.

Titled The Big Failure of Political Circle Jerking, or Cant Get No Satisfaction.

I'll just lay out one issue after another for you to counter and explain to me how my idea is unconstitutional, or just can't be done cuz that's not how things work.

So we'll just be two people who "agree to disagree". And I'll keep practicing my fiddle while Rome burns, cuz I sure as hell can't do anything about anything by myself other than to continue working on my music while Rome burns or the Titanic sinks, and me along with it.

I'm just an old Lady trying to make up for lost time, but failing miserably.

[StarfishSaver]

32. This isn't responsive, either

Well, actually it is - but probably not in the way intended

[msfiddlestix]

33. Actually, We've been down this road before...

And it always turns into a circle jerk session.

Not interested in wasting my time.... I do like exchanges on different subjects, just not this one.

[betsuni]

21. How do you know what is and isn't being done?

Republicans have their own media empire, Democrats don't. The press doesn't cover much of what Democrats are doing. What exactly should they be doing?

[msfiddlestix]

26. 2 excellent points you bring up

Republicans have their own media empire, and the Democrats do not. And the Press doesn't cover much of what the Dems are doing.

Correct.

That's why I know what is being done and what is not being done isn't sufficient to counter attack or "respond" (if that term is preferred)

1: Why is there a Republican media empire, and no Democratic media empire?

2: The PRESS continues to ignore, understate, or skew the good work of our party. And play up or distort small losses.

The Press also seems to be enamored with the Maggot Cult crowd, their dear leader and and the insurrectionists loving lizards in the Senate and the House, Governors, etc. Why does that imbalance continue on as if there isn't anything that can and should be done while still be constitutionally grounded?

[betsuni]

27. There's a Republican media empire because of unlimited right-wing funding. Kochs, Mercers, etc.

From the '70s they've been very organized. Evangelicals politicized, think tanks writing legislation funded. Money. There's no liberal equivalent because liberals have lives and aren't authoritarian nuts with dreams of taking over the world.

The press are mostly mediocre people who really wanted to be popular in high school but weren't. That's mean to say, but I think it's true.

[msfiddlestix]

29. Yeppers about who organized and you nailed about the press.

right smack on targey, never thought about it like that. Wanted to be popular in high school but weren't.

I like that, gonna use it for the future.

[msfiddlestix]

8. I completely agree with you.

I am confused and filled with angst with respect to the situation and it is a "hair on fire" existential threat.

I can't for the life of me understand why there has been a vigorous response that meets the threat.

[kentuck]

11. When Liz Cheney releases the Kraken.

She will smack down any tools that Kevin sends over.

[Johnny2X2X]

14. Republicans no longer believe in America

Dems need to start attacking them for it.

[msfiddlestix]

20. This 10,000 %

[StarfishSaver]

15. "Attacking" attacks is counterproductive

These kind of attacks have to be blocked, defended, and, in the meantime, worked around. That can't be done through an all-out full scale frontal attack, as much as some people want to see that. It has to be strategic, surgical, and carefully tailored to each situation and location. It's not dramatic or sexy.

That said, why do you think you are more in tune, adept and committed than President Biden? Do you know something he does not know? Or did you just care more about the country and democracy than he does?

[NewsCenter28]

39. Starfish, I'd like to see any combination of these things below. Let me know if you think possible

You were bang-on right about impeachment happening when it looked iffy in the first half of 2019. I remember that. So, hopefully you're right here. Your first paragraph brings me hope.

Anyway, my wish list. Do you think it is likely that any of these can happen?

1. Some type of enhanced VRA or slimmed-down HR 1 passes before the 2022 midterms. I'd be happy with anything reaching the President's desk. You are a procedural expert. Is there any chance we could just attach something to a must-pass bill and get it through that way or by convincing Manchin and Sinema to do a 1-time civil rights fillibuster suspension? Do you have faith new federal laws will be passed?

2. Failing that, are you confident that the Garland GA lawsuit will prevail in the courts? I forgot about that critical piece when I made the OP. If the lawsuit prevails, that's as good as a new federal law for now.

3. Failing that, do you think we could work around the redistricting and voter suppression laws to perhaps even enhance or at the very least hold our house and senate majorities in 2022? That would rock.

If you think it is highly likely that at least 1 of the 3 items on my wish list above will happen, I'd be satisfied.

I was extremely happy with President Biden on this issue until I read this Guardian article and it is what sparked my comments about him: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/28/biden-democrats-voting-rights.

Hopefully it's just clickbait. And regardless if any of the items 1-3 happen, it doesn't matter if it's true or not.

Sorry for the delay. I'm on the west coast and just taking a break from work so finally got time to reply now.

[SKKY]

17. One thing I like about Biden, and something I wish Obama had done more of...

...is calling out Republican hypocrisy in plain view. For example, what Biden said about McConnell yesterday, and how he enjoys all the money Kentucky gets. That's a good start, and we need more of that. Like the OP, I'm kinda tired of us taking pot shots and not responding in kind. I get the, "When they go low, we go high.", but that only gets us so far. Sometimes, in a fight, you gotta get down there and get dirty.

[Phoenix61]

22. If Biden did as you suggest, "...move the GOP effort to destroy democracy to the front of his agenda"

What would that look like? Specifically, what would he actually do?

[ck4829]

23. Fair question, good analysis... but I have a question, what are *you* doing?

Yes, the time for action has arrived. Yes, I agree with what you state, and I will add that the age of spectator politics, of "buckle up, sit back, and enjoy the show" is dead.

But you are a Democrat, yes? What is *your* planned role in this Democratic Counterattack?

If you want to do action, go for it. You're not violating any laws, maybe norms, but not laws, there is no "Mother May I" here. That's what makes civic participation great, you can participate in it as well.

Over the years, with no massive social networks, and without millions of dollars at my disposal... I, alone and with just a little help (Sometimes from DUers), have:
* Crashed a right-wing petition to "Bring back HUAC"
* Manipulated Google results about the War on Christmas to show the page from Media Matters as the first result
* Created a honeypot list to take extreme right-wing groups and label their emails as spam
* Took down all of the blogs for a neo-nazi group
* Manipulated the polls for a Christian Right group several years running
* Showed up the Shoebat clan, "ex-terrorists" trying to influence law enforcement, as frauds
* Created the category for "white nationalist terrorist"
* And I have yet to stop

If I can do these things, you can do them too!

Well, what are all of you waiting for?

[Thrill]

25. As usual. Democrats can never get their people in line to make significant changes

You think Republicans would have any trouble getting rid of the filibuster if they wanted to?

[StarfishSaver]

34. Democrats "can't get their people in line"

Last edited Thu Jul 8, 2021, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

because, unlike Republicans, we are a diverse group and are not full of sycophants and lockstep authoritarians.

[crickets]

35. 👆 This. nt

[ismnotwasm]

30. I am at work

So I googled real quick. This from politico, which is my last favorite news source
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/05/14/house-bipartisan-commission-capitol-riot-488326

From The NY Times

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/us/politics/voting-rights-law.amp.html


Or even this.

https://www.pellcenter.org/the-democrats-radical-agenda/

Don’t have time for a good response but, damn

[crickets]

36. Thanks, ismnotwasm. Your links point out the steady, competent plans and actions

Dems are putting forward, minus the vituperative grandstanding so common on the right. Works for me. It takes time to get the plans and actions in motion, not helped by the razor thin margin in the Senate. Dems are still managing to get it done. I am happy to have Dems do their jobs without feeling the need to join the spittle-flecked "look at me and revel in my hatreds!" rancor Repubs favor so much these days.

[StarfishSaver]

38. Thank you!

Not sexy, but effective.

(On edit: the Dems' actions, not you. I'm sure you're both effective AND sexy ...)

[Crunchy Frog]

41. I think we're seeing it.

[Stuart G]

43. Joe Biden knows what to do, when to do it, and how to do it..Our Counterattack Has Already Begun

...The "Counterattack" may not be clear to everyone and clear all of the time, but Joe & his team will
prevent any attempt by anyone to destroy our democracy!!!...

Joe is here now to do what needs to be done...He is our greatest hope and that is why Joe has showed up for this
job at this time in our history. Joe's team includes former Presidents of the U.S.A., people who have run for President of
the U.S.A., brilliant and dedicated people, and other leaders of the world. Also, common people like you and me. Yes, we are on the team too............................

.......... Never, Never, Never sell Joe and his team short. We will win...!!!.....................

[brooklynite]

44. Well, maybe, but it's essential that he and Schumer and Pelosi and Garland share every detail...

...with the blogosphere, otherwise someone will complain.

[Stuart G]

45. Complain?...About What?..Every detail??..People who complain have lost their sanity.................

..............Just like you know who?.............................

Think about this....It is July 2021....Do you know when the next national election is?...
...for senators and house reps?.......18 months away or is it 17 months....?????

..........SOMETIME IN NOVEMBER OF 2022.......is that correct?.....

Every detail has not been constructed. Every detail ain't around.....Ain't been formulated?

Joe & Chuck, & Nancy & Merrick have other work to do...Don't they?