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marble falls

(57,350 posts)
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 08:58 AM Jul 2021

All you need to know about Southern "justice" ...

1903



2015




The plague that’s called the private prison industry. The new Plantation system.

States aren’t filling enough beds for the private prison companies, so now, taxpayers are being sued because there aren’t enough criminals.

These aren’t frivolous lawsuits, either. Several government agencies knowingly signed contracts with private prison companies that guarantee a minimum occupancy or quota. In fact, In the Public Interest has found that nearly 2/3 of the contracts have quota clauses. In California, for example, there is a guarantee of 70 percent occupancy and in Arizona, nearly 100 percent.

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All you need to know about Southern "justice" ... (Original Post) marble falls Jul 2021 OP
Awful. Elessar Zappa Jul 2021 #1
It also gives the prison reason to ensure no one Phoenix61 Jul 2021 #2
Good point. Elessar Zappa Jul 2021 #3
Two sheriffs ago, the county made the same agreement with a private prison company ... marble falls Jul 2021 #9
What?! smirkymonkey Jul 2021 #4
This is not only a "southern" issue, and not only a private prisons issue. WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2021 #5
All practices like that need to be stopped. Elessar Zappa Jul 2021 #8
Southern prisons add racism to the mix. My major point. marble falls Jul 2021 #10
Our entire "criminal justice" system is racist. WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2021 #15
Absolutely is, after all it's a construct of a White majority system. The southern system ... marble falls Jul 2021 #18
I guy I know did 18 months in a state-run prison. panader0 Jul 2021 #17
When it's a matter of choice, it's one thing. When it's induced by officials with a financial ... marble falls Jul 2021 #38
De facto slavery began just as Reconstruction ended paleotn Jul 2021 #6
And how many of those petty charges start off a traffic stop for a cracked tail-lite sort of ... marble falls Jul 2021 #12
my Grandfather was Chief of Police in Pauls Valley, Oklahoma in the 40s.. I have all his samnsara Jul 2021 #7
I find the title of this OP very dismaying to see on this forum. Hortensis Jul 2021 #11
Where you'd rather be arrested: Cleveland, Ohio or Selma, Alabama? Being from Ohio and living ... marble falls Jul 2021 #13
Falls, by any measure, your claim that this is all Hortensis Jul 2021 #20
Ignoring racism is the real "post-trutherism". Why are blacks incarcerated more? marble falls Jul 2021 #22
Encouraging people to think things are all bad is NOT the way Hortensis Jul 2021 #25
Some things ARE bad. I agree with the Southern Christian Poverty Center: marble falls Jul 2021 #27
Some things are bad everywhere. Hortensis Jul 2021 #28
My racist father used to day things like that. It's pretty close to a "reverse racism" argument ... marble falls Jul 2021 #39
The south is more virulently racist Elessar Zappa Jul 2021 #24
No one says it isn't. This is about the OP title's flaming. Hortensis Jul 2021 #26
Faces in the crowd. underpants Jul 2021 #14
The look of a plantation slave in the field peering up at the overseer. sop Jul 2021 #19
The top photograph is of children. Marcuse Jul 2021 #16
That photo is of child convicts who were leased to farmers. It breaks my heart. marble falls Jul 2021 #29
My first thought was that they were children KS Toronado Jul 2021 #33
Instead they were in adult prisons. marble falls Jul 2021 #35
Kick for facts on quotas needed to fulfill contract luckone Jul 2021 #21
K&R Solly Mack Jul 2021 #23
Private prisons have ZERO place in a democracy. wnylib Jul 2021 #30
As well as contract military and social services. marble falls Jul 2021 #31
Agree completely. wnylib Jul 2021 #36
Sounds like those contracts may be more than a little sketchy dlk Jul 2021 #32
All I need to know is I'll vote for whoever is the Democrat Ziggysmom Jul 2021 #34
Kick dalton99a Jul 2021 #37

Elessar Zappa

(14,085 posts)
1. Awful.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:03 AM
Jul 2021

I didn’t know that the private prisons had quotas to fill. That really gives states the incentive to lock more people up.

Phoenix61

(17,020 posts)
2. It also gives the prison reason to ensure no one
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:05 AM
Jul 2021

gets gain time. Wouldn’t want anyone leaving early. The part that really pisses me off is if those dollars were spent on mental health services, drug rehab, job training etc we wouldn’t need so many prison beds.

Elessar Zappa

(14,085 posts)
3. Good point.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:06 AM
Jul 2021

These private prisons need to be abolished. The state-run prisons are pretty awful too but not as bad as the private ones.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
9. Two sheriffs ago, the county made the same agreement with a private prison company ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:19 AM
Jul 2021

... pretty soon we had prisoners from all over the country. Including Haitians, one of whom I met, who kept up with me for a couple of years when he was released. That kid had no business being put in jail. Southern justice is plainly racist.

What happened was: a prisoner committed suicide by banging his head on the concrete sink stand all day one Saturday. Six prisoners escaped in one incident, and a murderer escaped in another. One of the six broke into a house about a quarter mile away from our house, beat both older residents badly, raping the wife.

We have a certain amount of petty theft here, drug crime is mainly misdemeanor possession - speed, but no violent crime. The private company also gave the Sheriff a kickback on each prisoner. This sheriff was voted out but never charged for using inmates as unpaid help in his BBQ pit building business and landscaping company.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,460 posts)
5. This is not only a "southern" issue, and not only a private prisons issue.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:09 AM
Jul 2021

State-run prisons routinely sell the labor of incarcerated people to private companies in a wide variety of industries.

Elessar Zappa

(14,085 posts)
8. All practices like that need to be stopped.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:14 AM
Jul 2021

I wish we had a Supreme Court that would rule that kind of stuff illegal.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
18. Absolutely is, after all it's a construct of a White majority system. The southern system ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:43 AM
Jul 2021

... is worse.

White guys working a subcontract for Prison Industries at Leavenworth for under a dollar an hour is working on the plantation, too.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
17. I guy I know did 18 months in a state-run prison.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:42 AM
Jul 2021

He made a bout $1.50 an hour to pick on the vine tomatoes. He said it was much better than
sitting inside all day, even if the money was small. I don't know how much the prison made from
each inmate.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
38. When it's a matter of choice, it's one thing. When it's induced by officials with a financial ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 01:54 PM
Jul 2021

... interest from a private company looking to get close to a form of slavery, whole other thing.

Had to be California, that's the highest wage I've heard of. How much of it did he get to keep?

18 months sounds like a pot charge.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
12. And how many of those petty charges start off a traffic stop for a cracked tail-lite sort of ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:24 AM
Jul 2021

... violation or DWB - driving while black. I've read 70% of drug arrests derive from traffic stops.

samnsara

(17,650 posts)
7. my Grandfather was Chief of Police in Pauls Valley, Oklahoma in the 40s.. I have all his
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:11 AM
Jul 2021

..cop notes. He carried around a tablet and pencil like Joe Friday. I have them all..an entire box full. Ive been reading them and he was a fair and just cop just like he was as a civilian in his later years. A good man. There needed to be more like him.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
11. I find the title of this OP very dismaying to see on this forum.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:24 AM
Jul 2021

Encouraging ignorance and poisonous bias with "All you need to know about anything" in a couple of cherry picked pictures is just plain wrong. For everyone, not just the trumpists.

Over the 20th century, average IQ increased across the nation. It'd be interested to learn what's happening to it in this current mean, anti-knowledge trough. It can't be good.

IF anyone wants to know anything about "southern justice," that will require some effort to learn about it. A brief emotional reaction tells no one anything. A quick glance at the people who tune in for their fixes from people like Hannity should make that clear. They know it all too.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
13. Where you'd rather be arrested: Cleveland, Ohio or Selma, Alabama? Being from Ohio and living ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:32 AM
Jul 2021

... there till my thirties and then spending almost 30 more in Arizona and Texas, I think I have a pretty good grasp of the facts supporting my opinion.

I am not claiming racists all live in the south or that northern cops can't be racist. Akron's cops are pretty racist, but they're not as into it as most Texas or Arizona cops are.

I'd much rather be in a lockup in Ohio than in Texas, for sure.

PoC are incarcerated in the US out of proportion to population all over the US. The worst is in the South.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Falls, by any measure, your claim that this is all
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:46 AM
Jul 2021

people need to know -- that it is an acceptably accurate and complete picture -- is wrong. In more than one way.

This is not a post-truth world. Rampant dishonesty and bigotry are having an especially big moment right now, but this will pass.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
22. Ignoring racism is the real "post-trutherism". Why are blacks incarcerated more?
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:03 AM
Jul 2021

Why are black American incarcerated at an even higher rate in the South than in the North.

Why is Angola Prison, for example,

https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/caseconsortium/casestudies/54/casestudy/www/layout/case_id_54_id_547.html

Angola State Prison: A Short History

Angola State Prison.
Courtesy Louisiana State Department of Corrections

Angola State Prison was located on land that was originally an 8,000-acre plantation in West Feliciana Parish, in a remote region of Louisiana. The nearest town was 30 miles away. The plantation was named Angola, after the homeland of its former slaves. It traced its origins as a prison back to 1880, when inmates were housed in the old slave quarters and worked on the plantation. In those years, a private firm ran the state penitentiary. After news reports of brutality against inmates, the state of Louisiana took control of Angola in 1901.

Throughout the ensuing decades, Angola State Prison faced numerous problems thanks to its geography and administration. The penitentiary was bounded on three sides by the Mississippi River. In 1902, 1912, and 1922, floods destroyed the crops—a key source of funding for the penitentiary’s operating costs. During the Great Depression, the prison facilities fell into poor shape after its budget was cut severely. Conditions became so bad that 31 inmates sliced their Achilles tendons to publicize their objections to hard labor and brutality. In the 1950s, a new governor fulfilled his campaign promise to clean up Angola, renovate the old buildings, and add new camps—as the prison buildings were called.

In the 1960s, Angola once more fell on hard times and was christened “the bloodiest prison in the South” because of the high rate of inmate assaults. Again, the penitentiary saw major renovations, improvement in medical care, and other upgrades. By the 1990s, the prison was accredited by the American Correctional Association, a recognition of its adherence to national standards for jails. In 1999, the US Army Corps of Engineers began a four-phase project to improve the nearby levees at a cost of $26 million.

By 2008, Angola State Prison had grown to 18,000 acres—the size of Manhattan. It was a maximum-security prison with an inmate population that was almost completely African-American, while the officers who oversaw them were entirely white. The officers were known as “Freemen,” not guards.


Angola had numerous enterprises: corn, cotton, soybean, and wheat crops; a license tag plant; printing services; a mattress factory (including suicide prevention mattresses); and a herd of 1,600 cattle. Since 1965, the prison had held a professional rodeo to entertain its inmates, employees, and the general public. Inmates participated in all but one of the events. A portion of the proceeds went toward the Louisiana State Penitentiary Inmate Welfare Fund, which paid for inmate educational and recreational supplies.

One could call Angola a company town. Anyone who worked at the prison lived in one of the hundreds of homes on prison property. The best behaved inmates—called “house boys” by the wardens—wore white uniforms, performed the landscaping work, and cooked and cleaned the houses, all at no cost to the residents. Other inmates who demonstrated good conduct worked in the fields.

The prison and its employees were part of a tight-knit community, one that Sullivan would find difficult to pry open for leads.





The Texas State prisons around Huntsville in an integrated version of Angola. But Whites are represented way below their share of the population. Why would that be? I say racism that plays a big piece in Southern Justice. Like it or not.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Encouraging people to think things are all bad is NOT the way
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:21 AM
Jul 2021

to encourage improvement. You're mistaken if you imagine that pushing bigoted notions that an entire region of our nation is unremittingly evil and unjust toward black people somehow combats the hostility and divisions of all types that are tearing our nation apart. It's a wholehearted part of it.

Vicious smearing of the south is also extremely unjust to black people themselves, who are a very large and important part of southern culture. They not only live in the south in far greater numbers than anywhere else, 33% in GA, but a very large portion of the nation's black middle class is in the south and many are part of the southern mainstream. And as a whole they are both more religious and more conservative than most Americans, qualifying them for smearing by those inclined to see both as southern evils.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
27. Some things ARE bad. I agree with the Southern Christian Poverty Center:
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:48 AM
Jul 2021

... incarceration has been brutal to black families and laws unfairly enforced, prosecuted, punished black people out of proportion to the white population.

If that isn't indicative of racism, what is it? Do you think things got fairer and better during the last administration?

Let's contrast two pictures with a third:



GOP Senate



GOP house

and



No racism here? No prison reform needed at all?

There are big problems here. First thing needed: recognize there is a big problem here. Ignoring, normalizing, minimizing the biggest source of it will fix it not a whit.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Some things are bad everywhere.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:55 AM
Jul 2021

You can quote instances of southern injustice from now to this day next year, and it won't make claiming they're all anyone needs to know about southern justice true. That statement is 100% wrong.

The way to fight bigoted attitudes toward others is with truth and decency. Not by embracing it.

marble falls

(57,350 posts)
39. My racist father used to day things like that. It's pretty close to a "reverse racism" argument ...
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 04:16 PM
Jul 2021

... but always embrace the problem to solve it.

Critical race theory is tough to accept by racists and a lot of we liberals, too. But the real theory here is that truth will set you free once you know it and understand it.

As a liberal I get it: I do not know the whole truth, and a lot of what I know is from my own viewpoint. Trying to live a conscious is very hard to do when we don't know the "others" or their history or even been in their homes.

Elessar Zappa

(14,085 posts)
24. The south is more virulently racist
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:16 AM
Jul 2021

than the rest of the country. Our whole country is racist but the South is worse. I speak from living all over the country.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
26. No one says it isn't. This is about the OP title's flaming.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:33 AM
Jul 2021

But nothing's that simple. GA at 33% AA is more "virulent" than VT at 1.4% ONLY because AA have always been a big presence in GA. Bigots in VT would get more virulent pronto if there were suddenly black people in every store and workplace.

But here's a truth: Far, far more AA live good lives and hold positions of authority and social leadership in GA than in VT.

Maybe look and see how many AA are moving to VT for a less "virulent" atmosphere, and if you need both hands to count them.

Then check how many are moving to GA and have been for decades now. And one guess if they're coming to seek rabid injustice.

No to bigotry of all kinds and to the ignorance and stupidity required to support it.

underpants

(182,945 posts)
14. Faces in the crowd.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:34 AM
Jul 2021

Last edited Sat Jul 10, 2021, 10:23 AM - Edit history (1)

In both pictures they are holding hoes.

Second pic. The shorter guy fifth back in the near column - that look.

sop

(10,274 posts)
19. The look of a plantation slave in the field peering up at the overseer.
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 09:46 AM
Jul 2021

"The overseer’s whip & noose of history are today echoed in the policeman’s baton & pistol." - Tom Morello

dlk

(11,580 posts)
32. Sounds like those contracts may be more than a little sketchy
Sat Jul 10, 2021, 11:48 AM
Jul 2021

One hand washes the other and taxpayers foot the bill.

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