Why have Cuba's simmering tensions boiled over on to the streets?

[Jilly_in_VA]

Liuba Álvarez leaves her house three times a week at 3.45am to queue outside her local supermarket for basic goods like meat, oil and detergent. Her last queue was “relatively short”: after eight hours she came home with some minced meat in time for lunch. Other days she doesn’t get back until 5pm.

Police cars are overturned in the street in Havana, Cuba, on Sunday during protests against President Miguel Diaz-Canel.
Thousands march in Cuba in rare mass protests amid economic crisis
Read more
“It’s exhausting,” says Álvarez, 47. “Getting up early gives me migraines, but it’s the only way I can get these products to feed my children.”

Cubans are used to queues. But since the pandemic, endless lines,squeezed salaries and power cuts have become a grinding reality for millions. And on Sunday tensions boiled over in the largest anti-government protests for decades. Social media, the pandemic, and beefed-up US sanctions combined with a younger generation hungry for higher living standards have made for a dangerous cocktail the ruling Communist party is struggling to contend with.

“Cubans need cigarettes, coffee and food to be happy,” said Rey Alonso, 41, in central Havana on Tuesday. “Four years ago we had all that – you could go out and buy a can of cola. Now everything’s gone. Of course people took to the street!”

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jul/13/cuba-anti-government-protests-shortages-social-media-sanctions
_________________________________________________________________

Just hoping the Miami Cubans yearning for the good old days of Don Fulgencio don't decide to take it into their own hands and start something.......

[LifeLongDemocratic]

1. Protectorate of US

They should become a protectorate of the US like Puerto Rico. The US already has a military prison on the island. There are probably more Cubans living in Miami than Cuba. Think how easy it would be to get Cuban cigars.

[comradebillyboy]

4. Not the worst solution by any means.

But they would have to jettison their one party police state.

[lindysalsagal]

23. But they know how badly we abandon Puerto Rico, so, they're not likely to go for it.

And I wouldn't blame them.

[LifeLongDemocratic]

26. Trump abandoned PR

Biden would not have done what Trump did to PR

[LifeLongDemocratic]

27. Trump abandoned PR

Biden would not have done what Trump did to PR

[lindysalsagal]

32. PR was in a big hurt way before TFG

[Sneederbunk]

2. US could help everyone (except Miami Cubans) by lifting embargo.

[bluewater]

3. Cuba is an oppressive police state

North Korea is certainly worse, but Cuba is a pervasively totalitarian country.

As hard as sanctions have been on the Cuban people, if they are finally working to remove the heavy handed communist government is that actually a bad thing?

[comradebillyboy]

6. It's a good thing.

[48656c6c6f20]

15. Yeah it was a great 50+ year plan

[Jakes Progress]

18. Cuba isn't a communist country.

Anymore than is North Korea or Russia. It is a totalitarian regime. Communism purports to eliminate class. In Cuba, the masses are fed up with the disparity between the majority poor and the privileged and wealthy political class.

[GulfCoast66]

33. Since the description you gave applied to every country that was communist,

And not one of the came close to achieving equality of classes, I think we can safely say, after over 100 years of example that that is what communism is. Repressive government with few living high on the hog.

Words are cheap.

Collective ownership of capital has never worked and will never work. Human nature won’t allow it. The ones in control of the collective ownership ends up owning it all.

Communism is the correct way to describe the Cuban system.

It’s like saying racist evangelicals are not really Christians. When in fact they do what many Christians do.

[Jakes Progress]

38. Calling a frog a goose won't make it fly.

Things have meanings. Communism means communism. Just because a country calls itself communist doesn't make it so. We say America is a democracy, but that doesn't make it one.

You are confusing pretending with reality. Even putin claims to be democratically elected. That doesn't mean that a democracy is a mob-run plutocracy.

Words are cheap. castro could call Cuba communist. But it wasn't. Suppose I call myself a liberal but vote for racist policies that only benefit the ultra rich. By your logic, that would mean liberals were racist plutocrats. It doesn't matter what you all yourself; it is what you do and how you live that makes the truth.

Right wing blowhards are blathering now about how the people of Cuba want to throw off the yoke of communism. Listen to the people. They want to end the inequality between the people and the ruling class of politicians. They would be glad to have communism. That is not what they have been living under.

[GulfCoast66]

40. If you can't examples of the ideal of communism, 150 years after if was first proposed

And after countless nations have been violently forced into it, I’m saying communism means repressive government. I’ve read Marx. His class idea was groundbreaker. Although it was not original. The idea goes back before the French Revolution. His solution was bullshit. He was a product of non-democratic Europe. In that world his solution was childishly simply. The proletariat would destroy the Bourgeois class and everyone would agree to an egalitarian society. But he also freely admitted people would die. Utter rubbish.

And even he was ambivalent about the US. Because we were a democracy. He assumed we would gladly give up the fruits of our labor once we saw the advantage of his system. As I’m sure you know.

Defending the impossible is a poor look. Defending communism is even worse.

When I see a communist government that is not a repressive shit hole I will agree with you.

Reality creates definitions. And reality is how most of us live. Theory and $5 dollars will get you a coffee cup of coffee at Starbucks

The Cuban people are fed up with Communism.

[Jakes Progress]

48. You are confused.

No one said Communism works as a form of government. But a repressive dictatorship is a repressive dictatorship. Calling it communism doesn't mean it is. Governments that have called themselves communist have taken a number of forms. Cuba, China, North Korea, Russia. They do not have the same form of governing, but they all claim communism is theirs. You can claim to be a vegetarian, but if you scarf down a double cheeseburger, you just aren't.

Calling a cup a tea a cup of coffee doesn't make it pekoe regardless of how much it costs.

No one is defending communism. There isn't a communist government in existence. Cubans aren't tired of communism. They are tired of lying despots and profiteering thugs who call themselves communists. Listen to the artist who is under house watch in Cuba explaining what the protests are about. She said it was about inequality, about very poor people scrounging for food and living in crumbling housing while luxury hotels were being built on multiple coastlines.You say you've read Marx. Show me where he espoused luxury hotels for the rich and starvation for the workers.

Confusing propaganda for reality is not a good way to go.

[GulfCoast66]

49. I fully understand your point but disagree.

It’s no different than saying evangelicals are not really Christians because they don’t even try to follow Christ’s teachings. Full disclosure, I’m a free thinker. If a person calls the self a Christian, claims his sins are forgiven through Christ he or she is a Christian.

If a government calls itself communist I take them at their word.

Yours is the classic No True Scotsman argument.

Nothing I read by Marx makes me feel they are not communist. A dictatorship of the people who eliminated the private ownership of property.

I hit on the truth when you commented it does not work as a form of government. Because if you try you get Cuba.

[Jakes Progress]

50. So if I eat chicken nuggets, I can be a vegetarian?

If trump calls himself a friend of the working man, do you take him at his word? I mean, as a free thinker.

When gov. abbot in Texas says he is making the laws to restrict voting because he is a protector of voting rights? I mean, he calls himself a protector of voting rights. So?

Just because you call something by a name doesn't mean that is what they are. If you use that logic, then Biden is a socialist and Hillary is a pederast because someone said they are.

You do not understand the No True Scotsman argument.

If you read read the Communist Manifesto and found the it called for a dictatorship, especially one that called for heads of government to enslave workers and profit from their misery, then you surely did not understand what you were reading. No scholar of government or economics has ever interpreted Marx that way.

You will have to explain how you hit the truth again. Just what truth did you hit upon?

[WHITT]

5. Because

Why have Cuba's simmering tensions boiled over on to the streets?

Not only did Donnie reverse all the sanctions that Obama had lifted, including for medicines, but he added even more sanctions, and then he unprecedentedly blocked all remittances coming from the U.S.

Cruelty is the point.

[LifeLongDemocratic]

7. Cubans understand

I think it is safe to assume that the Cubans are well aware of the cause of their problems. What ever Trump touches breaks.

[brooklynite]

9. The "embargo" is an over-rated excuse

Despite the existence of the embargo, Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many countries, including many US allies; however, US based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions. Cuba has been a member of the World Trade Organization since 1995. The European Union is Cuba's largest trading partner, and the United States is the fifth-largest exporter to Cuba (6.6% of Cuba's imports come from the US). Cuba must, however, pay cash for all imports, as credit is not allowed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba

The problem is that Cuba's internal economic and political policies don't generate the revenue or products to trade with the outside world.

[bluewater]

11. There is no excuse for Cubans going hungry.

Any halfway competent government should be able to grow enough food in Cuba to feed its population.

Especially if the government really believes in socialism and putting the needs of the people before profit.

Cuba should be self sufficient in food. Period.

But it's not.

[WHITT]

14. Hmmmm

Where do they get the seeds, the fuel and parts for tractors, and even the good fertilizers and chemicals, and on, and on.

It's a defacto blockade.

[bluewater]

16. Ummmm did u miss this post by brooklynite? The one I replied to?

I posted in reply to brooklynite who wrote this:

Despite the existence of the embargo, Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many countries, including many US allies; however, US based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions. Cuba has been a member of the World Trade Organization since 1995. The European Union is Cuba's largest trading partner, and the United States is the fifth-largest exporter to Cuba (6.6% of Cuba's imports come from the US). Cuba must, however, pay cash for all imports, as credit is not allowed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba

So, Cuba could get seeds, fuel and parts for tractors from, um, the European Union?

Seems so.

Cuba should be able to feed its people, that it cannot is damning proof that the current oppressive communist government is incompetent or uncaring or both.

[WHITT]

17. Did You Read My Response To That Post?

Donnie's additional sanctions have made all of that nearly impossible. Once again, it's a defacto blockade.

[bluewater]

19. Yes and found it lacking. Cuba SHOULD be able to feed its people.

The current Cuban government is just both oppressive and bungling.

They have failed to prioritize the most fundamental human need of feeding the Cuban people.

Once again, Cuba has numerous trading partners, no ships are being stopped at sea and declaring it a defacto blockade does not make it one.

Once again, trade data disproves your assertions:

Cuba’s total trade with the United States was $31.98 million in May, a change of 54.14 percent from the same month one year ago. The change in exports was 54.02 percent and the change in imports was inf percent. Cuba ranked No. 118 among U.S. trade partners in May. It had ranked No. 119 for the same month last year.

The top three U.S. exports by value in May were Chicken and other poultry, (2) Returned exports, with change, and (3) Cell phones, related equipment. The top three U.S. imports from Cuba, also by value, were Paintings, drawings and other artwork, (2) Original sculptures and statues, and (3) Chicken and other poultry. By tonnage, the top three U.S. exports were (1) Chicken and other poultry, (2) Wood pulp from mechanical, chemical processes, and (3) Returned exports, with change. The top three U.S. imports, also by tonnage, were (1) Paintings, drawings and other artwork, (2) Original sculptures and statues, and (3) Chicken and other poultry.

https://www.ustradenumbers.com/country/cuba

Overview: In 2019 Cuba was the number 152 in total exports, the number 133 in total imports and the number 105 most complex economy according to the Economic Complexity Index (ECI).

Exports: The top exports of Cuba are Rolled Tobacco ($287M), Raw Sugar ($211M), Nickel Mattes ($134M), Hard Liquor ($97.3M), and Zinc Ore ($78.4M), exporting mostly to China ($461M), Spain ($127M), Netherlands ($65.5M), Germany ($64.7M), and Cyprus ($48.9M).

Imports: The top imports of Cuba are Poultry Meat ($286M), Wheat ($181M), Soybean Meal ($167M), Corn ($146M), and Concentrated Milk ($136M), importing mostly from Spain ($1.01B), China ($790M), Italy ($327M), Canada ($285M), and Russia ($285M).

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub/

[WHITT]

21. Eh

Donnie threated to sanction anybody who did business with Cuba, just as he did with Iran. If you find that "lacking", I can't force-feed you.

[bluewater]

22. Eh, so we should ignore actual published trade data that contradicts your assertions?

Data from this year too?

I prefer not to.

I prefer to hold the oppressive Cuban government responsible for their own shortcomings and not to give them a free pass.

Cuba should be able to feed its people.



I think I am done here.

Thank you for the discusion.

[WHITT]

25. OK

Then I won't go into your conflation of 2019 and 2021 data.

[bluewater]

29. Showing that Food exports to Cuba INCREASED in 2021 compared to 2019 is bad? lol

MAY 2021 FOOD/AG EXPORTS TO CUBA INCREASE 44.5%- Exports of food products and agricultural commodities from the United States to the Republic of Cuba in May 2021 were US$29,848,778.00 compared to US$20,650,953.00 in May 2020 and US$27,657,054.00 in May 2019.

May Exports Included: Chicken Leg Quarters (Frozen); Chicken Meat (Frozen); Chicken Legs (Frozen); Soybeans; Woodpulp; Wine; Beans; Protein Concentrates.

January 2021 through May 2021 exports were US$130,685,900.00 compared to US$76,728,924.00 for the period January 2020 through May 2020.

Since December 2001, agricultural commodity and food product exports reported from the United States to the Republic of Cuba is US$6,426,913,324.00.

This report contains information on exports from the United States to the Republic of Cuba- products within the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act (TSREEA) of 2000, Cuban Democracy Act (CDA) of 1992, and regulations implemented (1992 to present) for other products by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the United States Department of the Treasury and Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) of the United States Department of Commerce.

That's some "conflation" of 2019 and 2021 data all right.

Again, ignoring published trade accounts showing INCREASES in exports of food and agricultural commodities from the US to Cuba in 2021 compared to previous years, namely 2020 and 2019, does not make the data go away, all word games aside.

The government of Cuba should be able to feed its people and the fact that it has not is an irrefutable condemnation of its legitimacy and decency.

Again, the totalitarian police state that is the current Cuban government does not deserve a free pass and I refuse to give it one.

Enjoy your evening.

[WHITT]

30. Missed The Point

Your 2019 data was before Donnie added additional sanctions, threatened anyone who did business with Cuba with sanctions (just as he did with Iran), and blocked remittances.

Your 2021 data was after the election.

Neither is applicable.

[bluewater]

31. Ignoring the actual data does not make it go away

MAY 2021 FOOD/AG EXPORTS TO CUBA INCREASE 44.5%- Exports of food products and agricultural commodities from the United States to the Republic of Cuba in May 2021 were US$29,848,778.00 compared to US$20,650,953.00 in May 2020 and US$27,657,054.00 in May 2019.

May Exports Included: Chicken Leg Quarters (Frozen); Chicken Meat (Frozen); Chicken Legs (Frozen); Soybeans; Woodpulp; Wine; Beans; Protein Concentrates.

January 2021 through May 2021 exports were US$130,685,900.00 compared to US$76,728,924.00 for the period January 2020 through May 2020.

Since December 2001, agricultural commodity and food product exports reported from the United States to the Republic of Cuba is US$6,426,913,324.00.

Trumps sanctions went into effect in January of 2021. Biden has not rescinded them yet.

Trump hits Cuba with new sanctions in waning days

Politics Jan 11, 2021 6:48 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration on Monday re-designated Cuba as a “state sponsor of terrorism,” hitting the country with new sanctions that could hamstring President-elect Joe Biden’s promise to renew relations with the communist-governed island.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced the step, citing in particular Cuba’s continued harboring of U.S. fugitives, its refusal to extradite a coterie of Colombian guerrilla commanders as well as its support for Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro.

The designation, which had been discussed for years, is one of several last-minute foreign policy moves that the Trump administration is making before Biden takes office Jan. 20.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-hits-cuba-with-new-terrorism-sanctions-in-waning-days

And yet the actual trade data shows food exports to Cuba INCREASED from January 2021 to May 2021 compared to the previous two years.

So, the 2021 data is most certainly applicable, making unsupported assertions in reply does not make the trade data disappear.


The oppressive Cuban government has failed at meeting the most basic human need of feeding its people and does not deserve a free pass.

Not surprisingly, the Cuban police state continues to hide behind US imposed sanctions, blaming those for all its own failures.

I refuse to fall for that lie.

Cuba, despite all the US sanctions, should have been able to feed its people but for the bungling totalitarian incompetence of its current government.

Let me be clear, the United States and President Joe Biden are not causing the Cuban people to go hungry, the Cuban government is.


It's that simple.

[WHITT]

42. Except

And yet the actual trade data shows food exports to Cuba INCREASED from January 2021 to May 2021 compared to the previous two years.

Of course! That's the entire point. After the election, they no longer had to fear Donnie threatening others with sanctions for doing business with them.

Unfortunately, by then their economy had been crushed and revenues dried up, therefore they're in no position to do much of anything now.

So, the 2021 data is most certainly applicable...

Nope.

[bluewater]

43. LOL So much for your claim that Cuba is starving under a DEFACTO BLOCKADE

Thanks for admitting you were so so wrong when you INSISTED that The Cuban people are starving now due to a defacto blockade.

LOL

WHITT (1,140 posts)

14. Hmmmm

Where do they get the seeds, the fuel and parts for tractors, and even the good fertilizers and chemicals, and on, and on.

It's a defacto blockade.

I accept your admission.

But the fact remains that the Cuban government is the reason why the Cuban people are starving, the United States, even under Trump, continued to export both food and agricultural commodities to Cuba, any and all sanctions notwithstandng.

Honestly, I am amused by how this thread just ended.

Thanks for the discussion.

[WHITT]

45. Too Bad For You

Thanks for admitting you were so so wrong...

I made no such admission.

when you INSISTED that The Cuban people are starving...

You care to point out EXACTLY where I posted even the word "starving", let alone the implication?

Oh wait, you can't.

Attempting to reframe an unsubstantiated argument with 'Straw Man' accusations doesn't work. Glad you find your attempt so funny though.

[bluewater]

46. "You care to point out EXACTLY where I posted even the word "starving", let alone the implication?"

Sure thing! This will be fun... lol

I posted this:

bluewater (4,243 posts)

11. There is no excuse for Cubans going hungry.

Any halfway competent government should be able to grow enough food in Cuba to feed its population.

Especially if the government really believes in socialism and putting the needs of the people before profit.

Cuba should be self sufficient in food. Period.

But it's not.

You replied :

WHITT (1,143 posts)

14. Hmmmm

Where do they get the seeds, the fuel and parts for tractors, and even the good fertilizers and chemicals, and on, and on.

It's a defacto blockade.

Well well well, that looks like an "implication" that you felt the Cuban people were suffering from hunger due to current sanctions.



So, what's next? A quibble of whether "going hungry" is the same as "starving"? lol



Let's head off that type of silliness right now by looking at the definition of "starvation"

starvation
[ˌstärˈvāSH(o)n]
NOUN
suffering or death caused by hunger.
"thousands died of starvation"
synonyms:
extreme hunger · lack of food · famine · want · undernourishment · malnourishment · fasting · deprivation of food · death from lack of food

yep, "lack of food", "want", "suffering or death caused by hunger", "malnourishment", the word starvation covers all that.

So, that blows up any possible quibble about never even implying that the Cuban people were starving, suffering from hunger, etc etc etc.

[WHITT]

47. Afraid Not

[GulfCoast66]

34. Every country on earth except the US.

But when your system generates no revenue because there is no enterprise, how do you pay for all that stuff?

Without Soviet Billions this house of cards would have fallen in the 60’s. Since the Soviets fell they have been flounder and growing poor and poorer.

Oh, and they have no voice in the direction of their country.

I don’t care what a repressive regime calls itself. Christian, Islamic, communist, free thinkers. They are all shit.

[bluewater]

36. +1000

[WHITT]

13. Actually

that's ground to about zero with the additional sanctions Donnie added. BTW, the dollar denominated businesses were doing pretty well after Obama lifted most sanctions.

[secondwind]

10. What a bastard...

[Me.]

8. THeir Kids Are Hungry & They Have No Food To Feed THem

[Darwins_Retriever]

12. Constructive engagement --- We don't seem to have problems with dictatorships elsewhere in the world

1. Lift the sanctions
2. Provide needed supplies
3. Help modernize their agriculture
4. Do not push reforms on the government, yet
5. Provide bilateral talks (which may include Gitmo)
6. Assist in modernization
7. Work with the reasonable Miami Cubans (there have to be a couple)
8. find opportunities for cooperation. Cuba is known for sending medical teams where needed. Maybe they could help in the
US in situations like natural disaster or building collapse.

[hack89]

20. Disagree with nr 4

Why should we save a government so they can continue to repress their citizens? Makes no sense.

[LanternWaste]

24. Makes no sense only if no governments we openly trade with

are guilty of repression.

That not being the case, your excuse seems just that.

[hack89]

28. I don't think we should trade with any repressive government

let's make Cuba the standard - the rights of the citizens before the survival of the government. You agree?

[GulfCoast66]

35. Huh. That made me think in a different way.

I’ve always felt is we trade with countries they eventually become more free.

If we could get all liberal democracies to agree it might work. I’ll think on it.

[eissa]

37. "We were so hungry, we ate our fear"

Cubans have been asked to sacrifice in the name of a revolution that betrayed its ideals long ago. Those supporting the state and its oppressive tactics against the people will be on the wrong side of history. Many on the left embraced a tyrant almost reflexively because he was demonized by the right. But a tyrant is still a tyrant no matter where he falls on the political spectrum.

So many of those original revolutionaries ended up jailed, executed or in exile because they didn’t fight to replace one brutal dictator with another. Those first wave of Miami Cubans may have been part of the Batista-supporting elite, but the waves of refugees since then were predominantly those escaping a fascist police state. This doesn’t absolve the US of its many crimes and meddling in Cuba, but we cannot continue turning a blind eye to the repressive tactics and corruption of the Cuban government.

I truly hope the Cuban people are successful in tossing off the shackles that have binded them for so long and can finally make the original intent of the revolution a reality: a free and open Cuba.

[GulfCoast66]

41. I think you view is Polly Anna

Sure, the Cuban people fighting for freedom wanted a better government. But their leaders never had any thoughts of creating a Democratic society. Because no human would ever agree to their idea of collectivism. The people collect it and the leaders take it all.

One thug drove out another.

[eissa]

44. Agree with your last sentence, but

I really don't believe that the majority of the revolutionaries had the same intentions as Castro. The revolution encompassed a wide coalition that included everyone from peasants to the rich, supporters of democratic reforms, and yes, the communists (although they were in the minority, despite the high profile of people like Che and Raul.) It's easy to put all those differences aside when you're fighting a common enemy, but once they came to power, everyone's true colors emerged. Once Fidel made his authoritarian objectives clear, that's when many of the original fighters and backers became disillusioned and abandoned the cause. Obviously, there are many factors that contributed to them maintaining power all these years - repression, successful propaganda campaign, our own meddling history in the region, lack of will among Cubans after years of fighting, Russian financial support propping up the country, etc.

I think many predicted that the stranglehold on the people wouldn't last long after the Castros - let's hope that's true.

[burrowowl]

39. K&R