Good Question...We, As Democrats , Need To Have This Discussion

[sheshe2]

I am Democrat. Period. Part of the Democratic Party. Loyal voter. Vote in every election.
I am the base.
Tired of those who aren’t the base insulting those who are.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://3chicspolitico.com/2021/07/29/open-thread-good-question-we-as-democrats-need-to-have-this-discussion/

[Kang Colby]

1. Amen

Agreed. I’m from the Manchin/Sinema wing of the party…and if we didn’t have people like us we’d have a Republican senate and Orange Man would probably still be in office.

Notice how the loudest voices are often those who have NEVER sponsored/co-sponsored anything of significance that was passed. Very telling.

[sheshe2]

43. Bazinga, Kang.

Notice how the loudest voices are often those who have NEVER sponsored/co-sponsored anything of significance that was passed. Very telling.

Nailed it.

[UpInArms]

2. It is an interesting discussion

One that I have been seeing in other ways …

Am a 5th VP in a state Democratic women’s group … and have a few other functions, as well …

Was on a zoom of the national org’s conference this year …

And there were many complaints about how the “old guard” won’t let the “youngins” have any positions of power …

And .. I thought …

What utter bullshit

None of them show up for the grinding meetings …

[former9thward]

7. "None of them show up for the grinding meetings"

Yeah, most people don't want to add more boredom in their lives. Make it interesting and more young people will show.

[Blue_true]

9. How does one do that?

How can someone explain the job of being a councilor, or Mayor, or Zoning Board Member in a sexy way? Believe me, I have been to Zoning Board meetings, they are really dull and I really respect the people that sign up to be part of those Boards them.

Politics aren’t a carnival, there is going to be spades of boring stuff done before a good accomplishment is gained.

[former9thward]

11. I believe the poster was talking about party meetings.

Or progressive group meetings. Not government meetings. Party meetings are tedious and generally filled with bureaucracy. "That is not allowed under Robert's Rules of Order"!

[Blue_true]

12. I have been in both. They are about the same.

Lots of tedious items to cover and a time duration to do them in, and procedures that have to be followed to the letter.

[UpInArms]

17. When I owned the local newspaper

I went to every city council, county commissioner and school board meeting, as well as others too numerous to list …

Many times (probably 95% of the time) I was the only person not on the board or council in attendance …

People are just not interested in the “grind”

[Blue_true]

46. Most people just complain about government.

Or show up to shut meetings down. Few can sit through the boring and mostly calm hours of policy making.

The thing that I dislike about people that are toward an extreme is that they basically are tossers, they can criticize what they don’t like, but given the chance to develop something better, they produce nothing but aspirational statements (no concrete policy initiatives).

[sheshe2]

48. Toss Platitudes

Exit stage left.

[sheshe2]

52. To clarify my post, Blue.

They toss platitudes, not you.

Reread my post and was afraid you meant think I meant you.

It's late and I should be in bed.

Hugs.

[Blue_true]

63. I understood your original post.

I believe the problem exists on both the extreme Left and extreme right. The difference is we are fighting it while republicans have given in.

[Mariana]

55. "Many times (probably 95% of the time) I was the only person

not on the board or council in attendance …"

So, the old people didn't show up either? it wasn't only the young people who avoided these boring meetings?

[UpInArms]

58. When peeps did show up, they were not young either

Usually, they were there to get a permit for building …

Sigh …

At the school board, it was completely bizarre. Generally, that was about not paying more taxes …

Uggg

[Rebl2]

13. So like so

many young people they must be entertained to get them to participate. How sad.

[UpInArms]

16. Well, some meetings are more "fun" than others

But many are just doing ordinary business .. not exciting, but necessary

More fun can be had on a local level, organizing, fundraising, doing community work …

On the regional level, less fun … but still important …

On the state level, more tedious, but more necessary

On the national level … just yuck …

Way too much drama

[former9thward]

20. I have been to many meetings when old war horses stand in the way.

"You haven't paid your dues" "It's not your turn yet, just wait a few years" That is what the Chicago machine and others tried to do to Obama. Thankfully he ignored them.

[TheRealNorth]

3. I generally agree....

But respect goes both ways.

[sheshe2]

4. Please explain. nt

[Blue_true]

10. Explain how.

The all or nothing mindset is what I resent, along with the claims that people who don’t buy into that are somehow intentionally hurtful toward poor and striving people.

[crickets]

5. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[mcar]

6. Makes me so angry when then refer to themselves as "the base"

They are not, never have been and never will be.

The problem is the base of the Democratic Party is none of these things. We're just regular ass people. We want things to change but we know how viciously them other folk fight against that and us. We're willing to work with folks but that has not been their MO towards us.

[betsuni]

8. I find this fascinating. The construction of a fantasy worldview. Except it's not a game.

Demonizing "regular ass people." Us vs Them. For what? What's the goal?

Most important belief: 99% of The People agree with the agenda (slogans). The only reason the agenda can't be passed is because Congress is bribed and corrupt. Both sides have the same economic policies. The Democratic Party must be taken over and purified.

Everyone knows this agenda is the only progressive policy, it's that or nothing. If a Democrat disagrees, for example thinks the ACA should be improved but a Medicare for All plan isn't possible now, they know they're wrong. They don't want Americans to have health care, don't care about the working and middles classes. They are immoral, evil.

Then the hateful name-calling begins. Rule: assume evil intentions of anything a Democrat does. No checking to see if any of the hateful accusations have anything to do with reality. No researching to see if a Medicare for All plan has been implemented before, because if you do that you'll find out that it has, in Vermont, and it didn't work. No researching anything. Always assume Democrats aren't doing anything except counting their Wall Street money. No looking at the Democratic Party platform or knowing history (except for the '30s and '60s).

Belief that nothing progressive happened or was talked about in public before 2016 is imperative. Progressive ideas were only introduced then but the Democratic Party thought they were all too radical and crazy and had to be dragged to the Left. A progressive savior had arrived to lead The People.

[sheshe2]

15. No, it is not a game.

Everyone knows this agenda is the only progressive policy, it's that or nothing. If a Democrat disagrees, for example thinks the ACA should be improved but a Medicare for All plan isn't possible now, they know they're wrong. They don't want Americans to have health care, don't care about the working and middles classes. They are immoral, evil.
No researching to see if a Medicare for All plan has been implemented before, because if you do that you'll find out that it has, in Vermont, and it didn't work. No researching anything. Always assume Democrats aren't doing anything except counting their Wall Street money. No looking at the Democratic Party platform or knowing history

CA along with VT tried tried for an M4A:

A new study by the California State Senate shows that single payer health care would cost more than the entire current state budget.
That means everything else that Californians want from their government would have to take a backseat to health care.

www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/california-proves-single-payer-health-care-is-too-expensive-commentary.html

Belief that nothing progressive happened or was talked about in public before 2016 is imperative. Progressive ideas were only introduced then but the Democratic Party thought they were all too radical and crazy and had to be dragged to the Left.

This is left.

John Dingell.

Dingell was instrumental in passage of the Medicare Act, the Water Quality Act of 1965, Clean Water Act of 1972, the Endangered Species Act of 1973, the Clean Air Act of 1990, and the Affordable Care Act, among others. He was most proud of his work on the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

snip

At the beginning of every Congress, Dingell introduced a bill providing for a national health insurance system, the same bill that his father proposed while he was in Congress. Dingell also strongly supported Bill Clinton's managed-care proposal early in his administration.[30] In October 1998, President Clinton began a Roosevelt Room appearance "by thanking Senator Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia and Congressman Dingell for their steadfast support of Medicare and their participation in our Medicare Commission."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Perhaps the youngin's should research the past before wagging their fingers and calling it a brand new deal that they came up with.

[betsuni]

19. Yes.

Thanks for posting the OP tweets, really great. They know exactly what they're talking about!

[Budi]

14. K & R Thank You Sheshe2. Has to be said, & you did!

[sheshe2]

22. My Budi!

Love ya sweets.

Thank you.

[Marcus Pullarius]

18. Frankly, I've heard this sort of rhetoric before.

This is eerily similar to the troll posts leading up to the 2016 primaries. I'd verify that twitter user to be who and what he alleges before assigning any merit. Also in politics, you ask for a lot and are satisfied if you get a little. IMHO

[sheshe2]

23. She.

Not a he, a she. In fact three shes. Three Chics Politico is a wonderful website. You should read it sometime before you judge them so harshly.

Three black women speaking their mind. Not sure what your issue is here.

Hm

Also in politics, you ask for a lot and are satisfied if you get a little. IMHO

We are not asking for purity, they are. All or nothing is not the way to go...incremental steps are, see ACA.

This is eerily similar to the troll posts leading up to the 2016 primaries

.


Marcus? Are you calling me a troll?

[Marcus Pullarius]

53. Oh, sheshe, please don't misunderstand me,

my humble apologies. I was referencing specifically the tweeter "Rugged Amethyst" specifically. I read in his tweets the very divisive intent he seemed to be criticizing. Perhaps I'm only jumping at shadows. But something about this guy in particular made my shields go up. I think I've come across him before under a different name. Nor did I mean to denigrate 3chicks. Please forgive me for not articulating my precise grievance in my first reply to you. I don't think voting democrats are as divided as Mr Amethyst says we are. But yes, it should be discussed.

[sheshe2]

56. welp

I was referencing specifically the tweeter "Rugged Amethyst" specifically. I read in his tweets the very divisive intent he seemed to be criticizing.

Frankly I see nothing divisive about their tweets. I do however see a lot of truth. This one here, the name calling and please do not tell me they don't.:

And they seem rather impatient. No real hunger for the work or grind. They want it all RIGHT NOW. And if you don't give them what they feel entitled to then the here comes the name calling

Neoliberal
Centrist
Establishment Dem
Corporate Dem
Corrupt
Sh*tlib
And on and on ...

It is always ALL or NOTHING with them. Yet they do nothing but talk. Incremental steps is how we get things done without a huge majority, even then we have to fight...see the 5 that voted against the bill for the Capital Police. ' Cause they had reasons and those reasons were B______t.

Where are their bills, their written sound legislation? Crickets/Nothing. You don't 'Congress" or 'Senate' by tweets.What you do is work and work hard as if the peoples lives depend on it, and they do.

TY for an apology.

[betsuni]

61. The name-calling flooding social media.

Common insults (seriously, the list goes on and on and on):

Conservadem
Third Way/neoliberal
Milquetoast
Spineless/stands for nothing
Republican lite/Trojan horse Republican
Not inspiring
Corporatist/Corporate Dems
Beholden to donor class/Big Everything not "grassroots"
Wall Street/Goldman Sachs shill
Complacent
Identity Politics/has no economic policy
Incrementalist/triangulation
Coastal/wealthy/liberal/out of touch elites
Ideologically/morally bankrupt
Warmonger
Establishment
Status quo
Authoritarians/demands blind loyalty
Evil
Anti-union/hates working and middle classes

I'm sure I've missed a lot. Wish I knew if anyone's done a study of this propaganda.

[sheshe2]

62. Excellent list.✅

[betsuni]

25. What rhetoric?

What is incorrect? What "trolling"?

[sheshe2]

31. ...

[betsuni]

32. Opposite World!

[sheshe2]

33. no shit.

[George II]

29. Say what? That's a mighty serious accusation you're making.

[StarfishSaver]

37. "This is eerily similar to the troll posts leading up to the 2016 primaries"

Interesting comment from someone who just joined DU a little over a year ago.

[Marcus Pullarius]

54. very observant.

Yes, I only recently joined but I've been a lurker for many years. I think I must apologize again. I should have been more clear. I was reacting to this "Rugged Amethyst" guy, not sheshe or 3chicks. He may not be trustworthy, I think I've encountered his post before in a different venue but I could be wrong of course, I'm just an old human.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

42. I am also curious as to what is the rhetoric?

Do you have any facts to back up your claims? The base of the party is very different from the groups describe in the OP. Look at the 2020 primary results (the lack of undemocratic caucuses made a major difference). We can also look at the NYC mayor race.

[Gaugamela]

21. I'm as much a Democrat as anyone here. I voted once for a Republican when I was 18. He was

the governor of Iowa, and at the time I thought he was a good guy, and today he would be a centrist Democrat. I vote in every election, and I always vote Democratic . Having said that I am far to the left of most DU posters. I have followed politics since the ‘68 election, I have followed Chomsky and Zinn since the late ‘70s, and many other leftist thinkers. I participated in anti-war demonstrations in the late ‘60s and burned my draft card. For me, the non-negotiable in current politics is advancing democracy and the right to participate in the democratic process, and the necessity to act on climate change. I have little expectation that humanity will outlive this century. Even if we do everything to stop it. There is no time, zero, for incrementalism. We need to do everything to stop it. I will continue to vote for Democrats. But I will also support any progressive who is pushing the party back to where it once was. FDR said “You need to make me do it.” We need to make them do it, and there are many Democrats in office who just don’t get it. They just don’t perceive the urgency, or don’t see why they should put their neck on the line and lose their job. I don’t have any patience for them. It’s now or never.

[scipan]

51. I'm with you.

The right to vote is the number one issue. But there are so many: systemic racism, economic opportunity (see unions and a minimum wage tied to inflation), providing a bulwark against fascism.

[Gaugamela]

64. Totally agree with everything you say. Those are issues I would like to address. But if the right

succeeds and tosses democracy out the window it’s all over.

[scipan]

24. People here like to bash the progressive wing.

Do you want to have a discussion?

I remember 20-30 years ago elected democrats very rarely fulfilled the wishes of big corporations. It's more common now. And that is because of the huge amounts of money it takes to get reelected.

I'm old so I have gotten more and more cynical about actually getting big stuff done. And I'm in favor of taking what you can get. At the same time, I'm disappointed that some Dems don't seem to fight as well as the Republicans.

We really need publicly funded campaigns. Or something else to take all the money out of campaigning.

[betsuni]

26. Please give some examples of Democrats fulfilling "the wishes of big corporations ... because

of the huge amounts of money it takes to get reelected."

[scipan]

27. Labor unions.

[betsuni]

28. Labor unions what?

Is that something about the Biden administration? What?

[scipan]

35. The Biden administration has made some noises I'm

encouraged about. Would like to see a real push to expand the rights of labor unions.

[sheshe2]

30. Okay.

Progress you named one.

Now link to the money and the recipients. Link or none of it happened.

How much did they take and what favors were repaid.

[scipan]

34. You set up the conditions. If I can't meet them it's false.

Is that really fair?

[scipan]

36. I believe anyone who has been paying attention

can see the push by republicans to weaken them, and the lack of an equal push back on the part of Dems. For instance, they weren't invited to the meetings to develop the party plank in 2016. This was kinda new.

[betsuni]

39. Not true. There was labor union representation.

[sheshe2]

40. Bernie Sanders, pro union had a seat at the table in 2016.

[scipan]

38. I don't post much here but I come every day.

I have to ask: what is your motivation in your Op? To have a discussion or to flush out people like me so you can alert? Please be honest. Do you see us progressives as part of the party or would you like to silence us?

[sheshe2]

41. I posted it for discussion.

It is from a black viewpoint and I am white.

Some quotes you may have missed. This is about their concerns, cares and fears. They are tired about being ignored.

If you listen to them, they'll quote all kinds of surveys about how popular their agenda is. But in practicality they have problems answering about how they will get it done. And they really struggle at times with persuading Black folks to join their cause.

At what point do we ask ourselves are these folks fighting "against the establishment" just interlopers trying to overturn the will of the Black base of the Democratic Party? There's something very weird about jamming your agenda down the throat of folks that don't want it.

The problem is the base of the Democratic Party is none of these things. We're just regular ass people. We want things to change but we know how viciously them other folk fight against that and us. We're willing to work with folks but that has not been their MO towards us.

[scipan]

44. Good article about unions and how they were basically ignored.

Obama never seemed particularly interested in labor’s hopes of passing a card check bill as a method for employees to organize. And Obama’s embrace of charter schools was a slap in the face to the teachers’ unions who had supported him.

http://bostonreview.net/politics/erik-loomis-democrats-and-labor-frenemies-forever

I think black people are sometimes more conservative, especially with regard to the identity issues like LGBTQ, and just more Dem establishment. I think racism is our big sickness. If we treated black people the same as white people it would not only free them but free us. If there was one issue I would like to solve it would be this. It would transform us.

[scipan]

45. So do I have a voice here, is it welcomed?

For some reason I am really chatty tonight. I will go back to my usual tomorrow.

Howard Zinn's book comes to mind.

[sheshe2]

47. You can say whatever you wish.

That doesn't mean I will agree with you.

[scipan]

50. That's fine.

[DemocraticPatriot]

59. Joe Manchin.

[betsuni]

60. But how do you know he's being a Manchin because of money? What corporations are supposedly

paying him to do what they want? Did he ever change policy positions because of money (and again, how would anyone know it's because of money and not him thinking of employment opportunities for constituents)?

Every state has industries and issues important to it. Representatives are representing the people who live there. When Bernie Sanders was asked why he voted for a $1.2 trillion fighter jet manufacturing plan in Vermont, he said "Jobs." He's doing his job. To suggest that he was paid off by Big Military and corrupt would be ridiculous! I'm tired of Democrats being accused of being "beholden" to corporations and wealthy donors because of money. No evidence at all.

And sometimes as asshole is just an asshole. You don't have to pay them to be one.

[uponit7771]

65. Every democrat is "progressive" people who can't negotiate don't get to define who's such

[betsuni]

66. +1

[we can do it]

57. Thank you.

[Bettie]

68. So, to recap: those of us who are farther left than the most rightward Democrat

are to leave the party and...well, we have no where to go, so, just leave and stop voting, in order to save the feelings of those who hate us and our progressive beliefs.

Sounds legit.

Oh, and I've voted in every election since turning 18 from president down to local. Every. Single. One.

I've never voted for anyone but a Democrat. But, I'm not part of the base and unwelcome in the party I joined at 18, the party my grandparents were part of their entire lives because some rando on twitter says so. Cool story.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

69. Oh, geez, not this shit again.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15676165