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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe most damning evidence against Trump
Link to tweet
Jennifer 'pro-voting' Rubin
@JRubinBlogger
Dan Goldman tells me, Trumps statements to Rosen, Donoghue and likely others demonstrate that he knew he did not have true concerns about the legitimacy of the election but he simply wanted to corruptly overturn it without any factual basis.
Opinion | The most damning evidence against Trump
Evidence of intent to overthrow the government.
washingtonpost.com
8:24 AM · Aug 2, 2021
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/02/most-damning-evidence-against-trump/
*snip*
Justice Department officials told him there is no widespread fraud. You guys may not be following the Internet the way I do, Trump insisted. Still, the departments lawyers, according to Donoghues notes, Told him flat out that much of the info he is getting is false, +/or just not supported by the evidence we look at allegations but they do not pan out.
Former House Intelligence Committee counsel Dan Goldman tells me, Trumps statements to Rosen, Donoghue and likely others demonstrate that he knew he did not have true concerns about the legitimacy of the election but he simply wanted to corruptly overturn it without any factual basis. Goldman explains, By asking DOJ to lie so he and the Republican congressmen can use the lie to reverse the outcome of the election, Trump plainly intended to corruptly overturn the election. Any state or federal prosecutor can use these statements against him.
The phone call took place 10 days before the Jan. 6 stop the steal rally, when Trump implored the mob, whom he had already convinced that the election was stolen, to march on the Capitol just as Congress was tabulating electoral college votes. Goldman points out, [One] of the open questions after Impeachment 2.0 was whether and to what extent Trump was aware of the plans to violently storm the Capitol that existed online before January 6. However, through his admission in his conversation with the Justice Department attorneys that hes very familiar with what is on the Internet, Trump helps prosecutors show that he knew of those plans when he incited the crowd to fight and go to the Capitol on January 6. This is powerful proof that he conspired with the rioters to interfere in the lawful functioning of Congress.
Trump knew there was zero evidence of fraud, both when he pressured Raffensperger and when he incited the crowd. Just as he did when he demanded the Ukrainian president announce an investigation into then-candidate Joe Biden or his son, he was asking the Justice Department not for evidence, but a pretext. He did not even expect the department to change the results; he just wanted it to promulgate his lie so he could finagle a way to reverse the results. He was looking for a pretense to force the reversal of the election.
*snip*
CrispyQ
(36,501 posts)There is audio of Trump asking Raffensperger to alter the outcome. I haven't found anything more current on this story since May. If the DA dropped the investigation, can't the DOJ pick it up?
There's a recording of the call at the link below. Sorry it's behind a paywall.
By Amy Gardner
January 3, 2021 at 9:59 p.m. EST
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html
snip...
President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to find enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that legal scholars described as a flagrant abuse of power and a potential criminal act.
The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking a big risk.
Throughout the call, Raffensperger and his offices general counsel rejected Trumps assertions, explaining that the president is relying on debunked conspiracy theories and that President-elect Joe Bidens 11,779-vote victory in Georgia was fair and accurate.
~more at link
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,675 posts)Audit the F out of this loser.
Bankrupt this corrupt loser, if we CAN"T put him in jail, since it seems nobody in power want to do that !!!!
lindysalsagal
(20,726 posts)Hurdles in proving intent arise in many criminal cases, yet juries often accept circumstantial evidence that is far less damning than the recording of the Trump-Raffensperger call and the Justice Department notes. Its almost as if this once-in-a-lifetime incriminating evidence has been served on a platter for prosecutors. Moreover, since the Justice Department has already held that overthrowing an election is outside the scope of any officials duties, Trump has no special protection for his actions. If no one is above the law is to have any meaning, he must be subject to vigorous federal investigation.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Taken out of this specific context, how many here at DU would agree that Trump has a grasp of facts and is not delusional?
My assessment of TFG is that factual evidence and what might be deemed "truth" simply do not enter into his words and actions. The only thing that matters to his lizard brain is satisfying the bottomless pit of his ego and greed. What he actually "believes" is hard to pin down and pretty much beside the point.
The question is how that would translate into a legal defense against serious felony charges of conspiracy and inciting a violent mob in an attempted coup.
Arguing that he was mentally incapable of evaluating factual evidence and therefore not responsible for his actions might get him off the hook but wouldn't play well as the narrative for a Party which elevated him as their leader.
ShazzieB
(16,485 posts)I really don't think he perceives reality the way most people do, as something that exists independently of him and operates according to its own rules. As a malignant narcissist, he is the center of his own universe, and everything else revolves around him. His personal wants and desires are the only "reality" he recognizes, and the extent to which someone or something does or does not fulfill his wants and desires is the only yardstick that matters to him. Concepts like truth, lies, or even good vs. evil or ethical vs. unethical have no meaning to him.
It's s very disordered view of the world, but I'm actually not too worried about him being able to use an insanity plea to avoid justice. The legal definition of "insanity" is a very high bar, and I think he'd like have a very hard time surmounting it. Plus, entering a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity implies a tacit acknowledgment of one's
imperfections, something he may not be capable of.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)TFG doesn't let facts or rules get in his way; those obstacles are more difficult if you care about them.
I wonder if his lawyers might try to mount a Sidney Powell defense -- "No reasonable person" would have believed his lies.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)the way he gets there doesnt matter to him.
T***p wont stop until he is stopped. He deserves it, he craves it. He wants to be punished. IMO.
C Moon
(12,221 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,317 posts)over 600,000 victims.
ShazzieB
(16,485 posts)He meets all the criteria for antisocial personality disorder, so he's not all that much different than a serial killer.
Imo, the main difference between him and say, Ted Bundy, is that he doesn't like physical exertion or getting his hands dirty.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Or get prosecuted or convicted.
America, real nice justice system you have. Overpunish the petty criminals and let the traitors live as lavish a lifestyle as they desire.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)America, real nice justice system you have. Overpunish the petty criminals and let the traitors live as lavish a lifestyle as they desire.
Especially when you have a huge conglomerate of RW media 100% behind you. This has resulted in too many feeling threatened too threatened to seek real justice.
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)rickyhall
(4,889 posts)masonkee
(6 posts)I agree. Trump is a fool!
FakeNoose
(32,722 posts)Get them both under oath, and then compare notes. I'll bet the two of them together could get Chump convicted.