A federal judge asked prosecutors why the Justice Department is seeking just $2,000 from alleged Cap

[orangecrush]

A federal judge asked prosecutors why the Justice Department is seeking just $2,000 from alleged Capitol rioters, while US taxpayers are paying more than $500 million for insurrection-related costs






A federal judge pressed prosecutors for answers on low restitution fees required of Capitol rioters during a hearing on Monday.

Chief US District Judge Beryl A. Howell of Washington, DC, asked why the Department of Justice is seeking only $1.5 million in repayment from Capitol riot defendants while US taxpayers are footing a bill of more than half a billion to pay for repairs stemming from the January 6 pro-Trump attack.

The US Attorney's office is seeking $2,000 in every felony case stemming from the riot, and $500 in each misdemeanor case, which, even if every current defendant pleaded guilty and paid, would still equal less than $1.5 million, according to The Washington Post.

"I'm accustomed to the government being fairly aggressive in terms of fraud when there have been damages that accrue from a criminal act for the restitution amount,'' Howell said in court on Monday according to the outlet.


"Where we have Congress acting, appropriating all this money due directly to the events of January 6, I have found the damage amount of less than $1.5 million — when all of us American taxpayers are about to foot the bill for close to half a billion dollars — a little surprising," she said.

https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.businessinsider.com/judge-presses-doj-on-restitution-fees-required-of-capitol-rioters-2021-8?amp=&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16285976509842&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fjudge-presses-doj-on-restitution-fees-required-of-capitol-rioters-2021-8

[Willis88]

1. Just about to post this-- pretty bad with Federal Judge is asking why are insurrections getting off

So easily.

Merrick Garland would have made a great Supreme Court Justice of the United States, but He needs to be replaced as Attorney General due to the way he is leading the Justice Department, it pains me to say.

[cstanleytech]

10. Ya, it seems like trying to overthrow the government would lead to more harsh sentences.

After all look at the harsh sentences a number of anti government people got back in the 60s and 70s when they attacked federal buildings.

[Tiger8]

30. I have more respect for Trump!

At least Trump said….”When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” which is what all the J6 terrorists deserved.

Capitol Police should have sprayed them with bullets as they busted into the capitol building. Armed terrorists, there to attack, rape and murder elected officials, deserve nothing less. And for the ones remaining, it should be many years in gitmo.

Why doesn’t Merrick Garland just build them a fucking statue of Trump!? Because weak actions by Democrats show me that eventually, the Trumpers will be back in power - and then, they will be ruthless.

[orangecrush]

41. Sad but true

This is disheartening.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Outrageous

The way they're all being treated with kid gloves is maddening. These terrorists came there to kill, they destroyed $millions of dollars in property, and they're getting a slap on the wrist and the taxpayers are footing the bill for the damage they caused.

[bottomofthehill]

3. Great question, once convicted lock them up and fine them based on the real cost of the damage

1/6 will cost us a lot more than 1.5 million dollars

[SheltieLover]

11. Absolutely!

[usaf-vet]

15. EXACTLY! Make the punishment fit the crime. How many citizens are currently in prison for drug.....

.... offenses. For "WEED" offenses.

Make the punishment hurt! Send the message YOU BROKE THE LAW. And in the process people died. Why wouldn't that be accessory to manslaughter?

There are dozens if not thousands of cases where being the driver in an armed robbery where some is killed you are sent to prison as an accessory to the death.

These judgments and punishments are sad and maddening.

[bottomofthehill]

19. I like "send the message"

You participated in an armed insurrection at the US Capitol on 1/6/2021, over 150 cops from multiple jurisdictions were injured and your actions led to 1 death and 4 suicides. Your actions caused great harm. You have been charged with Disruption of Congress (every person there wether inside or outside caused the disruption, their actions caused both Houses of Congress to Adjourn) it is punishable by up to 20 years, you will be serving ( depending on their actions) a minimum of 10 of those years

In my opinion they would still be getting off lightly. What they did is completely different that the BLM riots of last summer. There is no charge of disruption of a 7/11 or Dollar General. These are 2 totally different circumstances. By the way, participation in the riots ( not the peaceful protest but riots) also deserves criminal punishment, but again, different. In my book, you burn a police station you go to jail for a long time too.

[Bluethroughu]

24. Agree 100%

[Tadpole Raisin]

4. From a Yahoo article (BI link isn't working for me:

Snip:

Howell then grilled the prosecutor handling the case, Clayton O’Connor, about why prosecutors hadn’t insisted that Croy admit as part of the plea that he was trying to block the electoral vote.

“Why isn’t that in the statement of offense?” the judge asked.

In response, O’Connor laid bare aspects of prosecutors’ decision-making that have rarely been discussed publicly: why some defendants who went into the Capitol but aren’t accused of violence against others or damaging property are facing a felony obstruction-of-Congress charge that can carry a maximum of 20 years in prison, while others who appear to have acted similarly that day have escaped with misdemeanors.

“Largely, because of the elements which go to the obstruction charge which many of Mr. Croy’s co-rioters have been charged with,” O’Connor explained. “In the review of the investigation, that fact was not revealed to a degree that the government could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt with regard to Mr. Troy.”

The handling of other Jan. 6 cases by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Washington and its superiors at the Justice Department has pointed to such a distinction. Cases where defendants posted on social media about trying to stop the vote have generally produced more serious charges, while those lacking such evidence seem to have been treated more leniently, even if the acts allegedly committed were similar.

Yet, Howell didn’t seem to be buying it, and repeatedly suggested it could be inferred that those who entered the Capitol were not just there on a lark.

O’Connor, the prosecutor, concurred.

“Contextually, we agree with you that’s apparent,” he said, before insisting that the government needed more evidence of intent in each case than just entry into the building.
*******

Well ok but I agree with the judge! I hope their lawyer costs set them back financially!

[Bluethroughu]

26. Once you crossed the police manned barricades outside

The capital property, pushing, punching and walking on the cops. The entent to get into the building was not for cake and cookies with the local Congressman.

Enough of the bullshit. If this had been a group of black, hispanic or muslim people chanting loudly near the outside barricades we would have seen flash bang grenades and bloodshed.

This pisses me off. Maybe the justice department is compromised beyond fixing. If an insurrection doesn't spring a call to action against those involved, then what kind of defenders of democracy do we have in there.

This was worse than 9-11. CITIZENS violently broke into the Capital to take over our Country, INSTIGATED BY A SITTING PRESIDENT AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

[DENVERPOPS]

28. Well said Blue

I have been shocked at the minimal sentences & fines for the offenses so far.

It sets a lower level of punishment for the ones that are charged with more serious crimes.

[bottomofthehill]

34. One correction, please replace citizens with Domestic Terrorists.

[Bluethroughu]

36. You are so right about that!

[jalan48]

6. Damn, they're being treated like Wall Street bankers.

[oldsoftie]

7. Half a BILLION?? I think we're getting ripped off.

Certainly make all of them pay dearly; both by serving time & monetarily
But where on earth is $500 MILLION dollars in damage?

[niyad]

9. The 500 million, I understand, includes pay for Capitol police, MPD, and the cost of

National Guard presence. Architect of the Capitol estimated the damage to the Capitol itself at in excess of 30 million.

[oldsoftie]

40. Thank you. that makes a LOT more sense. nt

[halfulglas]

8. The cost of the smashed antique glass alone is many thousands, maybe millions, of dollars.

When watching those multiple frames of the MAGA insurrectionists the decorative glass, hundreds of years old, of the doors and the windows above the doors of the Capitol building. The damage inside the Capitol is tremendous. It was like bombing a cathedral. They shouldn't be able to pay a few thousand and go back to their lives as if nothing happened.

[Botany]

13. They broke a bunch of these "Olmsted Laterns" that were built in the 1800s and just had ...

... been restored costing millions.



Not unless these people are giving up people way "up the food chain" they should be paying more and
given more time too.


I think the cost of the damage to the Capitol and its grounds was > $50 million.

[bottomofthehill]

31. Priceless, can never restore the history

[Botany]

33. I don't think Fredrick Law Olmsted (Central Park) or his craftsmen are around anymore.

Although they had just finished a multi year restoration to the Olmsted Terrace and the Olmsted Laterns
in 2020. Those ass clown thugs of Trump who stormed the Capitol need to be held accountable and being
stupid is not an excuse. And Trump needs to be held accountable too.

[JudyM]

42. That's right, trump too!

[NBachers]

12. Every damn one of them engaged in a conspiracy to overthrow the US Government and wreck the Capitol.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Prosecutors need to be held accountable. Their names need to be published.

[Tommymac]

16. This.

Are they buried Trump drones?

Inquiring minds NEED to know.

We want the FACTS as to why this is happening.

[KS Toronado]

17. My dad always said "If you really want to teach someone a lesson......

hit them in their pocketbook" We need to charge them more, hell let's
keep them so broke they can't afford to travel to DC again.

[Tadpole Raisin]

21. This!! They only care about money and jail time. Give them both...

[Bluethroughu]

27. Great idea!

No money, no problems.

[bottomofthehill]

32. I don't want to disagree with your dad

But I would happily pay every penny I had to stay out of jail. The thought of being behind bars, even in a minimal security institution would scare the hell out of me. I am going to partially agree with the wise man your dad was and say do both, bigger (much) fines and longer (much) prison sentences.

[KS Toronado]

39. Well thank you, & I agree with you.....

" bigger (much) fines and longer (much) prison sentences."

[70sEraVet]

18. Maybe the remainder of the money can be made up when

we start prosecuting some of the deep-pocketed instigators! How much is Mo Brooks worth?

[KPN]

20. This is discouraging. Being angry is one thing,

but being discouraged is worse. What the f***!?

[Bluethroughu]

22. Can someone tell me what the deterrent for another

Insurrection might be? Because a few months in jail, and a couple thousand dollar fine for attacking our Government is nuts.

These scumbags will raise dark money and this will be the norm, every time they don't get their way.

[turbinetree]

23. Here is the penalty for what these jerks got caught doing and the fine:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim#:~:text=Whoever%20incites%2C%20sets%20on%20foot,holding%20any%20office%20under%20the


-snip-

§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, §2, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 87–486, June 19, 1962, 76 Stat. 103; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

Historical and Revision Notes
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., §§10, 11, 13 (June 28, 1940, ch. 439, title I, §§2, 3, 5, 54 Stat. 670, 671).

Section consolidates sections 10, 11, and 13 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed. Section 13 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., which contained the punishment provisions applicable to sections 10 and 11 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., was combined with section 11 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., and added to this section.

In first paragraph, words "the Government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein" were substituted for "any government in the United States".

In second and third paragraphs, word "such" was inserted after "any" and before "government", and words "in the United States" which followed "government" were omitted.

In view of these changes, the provisions of subsection (b) of section 10 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., which defined the term "government in the United States" were omitted as unnecessary.

Reference to conspiracy to commit any of the prohibited acts was omitted as covered by the general conspiracy provision, incorporated in section 371 of this title. (See reviser's note under that section.)

Words "upon conviction thereof" which preceded "be fined" were omitted as surplusage, as punishment cannot be imposed until a conviction is secured.

The phraseology was considerably changed to effect consolidation but without any change of substance.


Editorial Notes
Amendments
1994—Pub. L. 103–322 substituted "fined under this title" for "fined not more than $20,000" in fourth and fifth pars.

1962—Pub. L. 87–486 defined the terms "organizes" and "organize".

1956—Act July 24, 1956, substituted "$20,000" for "$10,000", and "twenty years" for "ten years" in the paragraph prescribing penalties applicable to advocating overthrow of government and inserted provisions relating to conspiracy to commit any offense named in this section.


Or does this not apply....give me a fucking break....do the crime do the time and pay the fine....

[bottomofthehill]

35. I will make it even easier, the language below is exactly what they did.

Prosecution and punishment of offenses.

(a) Any violation of § 10-503.16(a), and any attempt to commit any such violation, shall be a felony punishable by a fine not exceeding $5,000, or imprisonment not exceeding 5 years, or both.

law.
§ 10–503.16. Unlawful conduct.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person or group of persons:

(1) Except as authorized by regulations which shall be promulgated by the Capitol Police Board:

(A) To carry on or have readily accessible to the person of any individual upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings any firearm, dangerous weapon, explosive, or incendiary device; or

(B) To discharge any firearm or explosive, to use any dangerous weapon, or to ignite any incendiary device, upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings; or

(C) To transport by any means upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings any explosive or incendiary device; or

(2) Knowingly, with force and violence, to enter or to remain upon the floor of either House of the Congress.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person or group of persons willfully and knowingly:

(1) To enter or to remain upon the floor of either House of the Congress, to enter or to remain in any cloakroom or lobby adjacent to such floor, or to enter or to remain in the Rayburn Room of the House or the Marble Room of the Senate, unless such person is authorized, pursuant to rules adopted by that House or pursuant to authorization given by that House, to enter or to remain upon such floor or in such cloakroom, lobby, or room;

(2) To enter or to remain in the gallery of either House of the Congress in violation of rules governing admission to such gallery adopted by that House or pursuant to authorization given by that House;

(3) To enter or to remain in any room within any of the Capitol Buildings set aside or designated for the use of either House of the Congress or any member, committee, subcommittee, officer, or employee of the Congress or either House thereof with intent to disrupt the orderly conduct of official business;

(4) To utter loud, threatening, or abusive language, or to engage in any disorderly or disruptive conduct, at any place upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings with intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb the orderly conduct of any session of the Congress or either House thereof, or the orderly conduct within any such building of any hearing before, or any deliberations of, any committee or subcommittee of the Congress or either House thereof;

(5) To obstruct, or to impede passage through or within, the United States Capitol Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings;

(6) To engage in any act of physical violence upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings; or

(7) To parade, demonstrate, or picket within any of the Capitol Buildings.

(c) Nothing contained in this section shall forbid any act of any member of the Congress, or any employee of a member of the Congress, any officer or employee of the Congress or any committee or subcommittee thereof, or any officer or employee of either House of the Congress or any committee or subcommittee thereof, which is performed in the lawful discharge of his official duties.

[bottomofthehill]

37. Even easier, 4/5/6/7 all are felonies 5 years 5 grand. This is clearly what was done, open and shut.

4) To utter loud, threatening, or abusive language, or to engage in any disorderly or disruptive conduct, at any place upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings with intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb the orderly conduct of any session of the Congress or either House thereof, or the orderly conduct within any such building of any hearing before, or any deliberations of, any committee or subcommittee of the Congress or either House thereof;

(5) To obstruct, or to impede passage through or within, the United States Capitol Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings;

(6) To engage in any act of physical violence upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings; or

(7) To parade, demonstrate, or picket within any of the Capitol Buildings.

[turbinetree]

43. Exactly...

throw the book at them every last one of them....

[LetMyPeopleVote]

25. The DOJ needs to be tougher on these terrorists

[turbinetree]

44. Agreed ....

throw the book at them

[jmowreader]

29. My question is why are any of them being hit with misdemeanor charges?

What the Justice Department should be doing is charging them with the cheapest felony they can come up with. This would cause them to lose their gun rights - one thing that truly matters to them. It would also lose them their voting rights.

[bottomofthehill]

38. The low hanging fruit the charges below are from 10-503.16

I am not a lawyer so someone smarter than I am may want to check on this but it seems pretty simple to me.


a) Any violation of § 10-503.16(a), and any attempt to commit any such violation, shall be a felony punishable by a fine not exceeding $5,000, or imprisonment not exceeding 5 years, or both.


4) To utter loud, threatening, or abusive language, or to engage in any disorderly or disruptive conduct, at any place upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings with intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb the orderly conduct of any session of the Congress or either House thereof, or the orderly conduct within any such building of any hearing before, or any deliberations of, any committee or subcommittee of the Congress or either House thereof;

(5) To obstruct, or to impede passage through or within, the United States Capitol Grounds or any of the Capitol Buildings;

(6) To engage in any act of physical violence upon the United States Capitol Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings; or

(7) To parade, demonstrate, or picket within any of the Capitol Buildings.

[GoodRaisin]

45. This judge can do math.

Excellent question.