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EarlG

(21,966 posts)
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 10:55 AM Aug 2021

About the "lightning-fast" fall of Afghanistan and "quick collapse" of Afghan security forces...

Here's a map of Afghanistan showing the areas that the Taliban either already controlled or were on the verge of controlling as of LAST WEEK:




They have been gaining ground for a long time.


MAY 3, 2020: President Trump's Disgraceful Peace Deal with the Taliban

If you read the peace agreement itself, you’ll note immediately that it gives the Taliban a series of concrete, measurable gifts. First, there’s an immediate allied withdrawal – down to 8,600 American troops (and proportionate numbers of allied troops) within 135 days. The remainder of American and allied forces will leave within 14 months.

At the same time, the United States will immediately and substantially reinforce the Taliban by seeking the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners by March 20. Even worse, the United States further agreed to a goal of “releasing all remaining prisoners over the course of the subsequent three months.” It will do this at the same time that it commits to the “goal” of removing sanctions from members of the Taliban that include travel bans, asset freezes, and an arms embargo.

The combination of the planned American retreat and the planned prisoner release would represent a substantial change in the balance of forces in Afghanistan. This would come without any agreement by the Taliban to cease hostilities against our allies.


Nine months later...


FEBRUARY 15, 2021: The Taliban Close In on Afghan Cities, Pushing the Country to the Brink

The Taliban have been encroaching on key cities around Afghanistan for months, threatening to drive the country to its breaking point and push the Biden administration into a no-win situation just as the United States’ longest war is supposed to be coming to an end.


APRIL 15, 2021: Afghanistan: 'We have won the war, America has lost', say Taliban

Baryalai, a local military commander with a ferocious reputation, points down the road, "the government forces are just there by the main market, but they can't leave their bases. This territory belongs to the mujahideen". It's a similar picture across much of Afghanistan: the government controls the cities and bigger towns, but the Taliban are encircling them, with a presence in large parts of the countryside.


MAY 26, 2021: ‘The Taliban will come ... 100%.’ As U.S. withdraws, Kandahar faces a takeover

With U.S. forces on track to withdraw completely by Sept. 11 — and possibly as soon as mid-July — many Afghans, like Nazir, are happy to see their backs. Others fear chaos. For most, the fighting has gone on for so long that sides are irrelevant; they’ll give allegiance to whoever stops the carnage.

That increasingly looks like it’ll be the Taliban, which is in the ascendant across the land.

In the last six months, its fighters blitzed into districts around Kandahar province — Arghandab, Panjwayi, Maiwand and Zhari — as part of a nationwide campaign. Earlier this month, the Islamist militant group seized Dahla, Afghanistan’s second-biggest dam and an essential source of irrigation and drinking water. Though the government clawed back some of those gains, the Taliban has tightened its vise-like grip around Kandahar city, the one area in the province still under relatively uncontested government control.


JUNE 5, 2021: The Taliban Are Getting Stronger In Afghanistan As U.S. And NATO Forces Exit

In the two decades since, the Taliban have fought the Afghan government and its international allies to regain land and power. Analysts say the insurgents have been growing stronger for years. Now, as American and NATO troops withdraw, the Taliban appear even more emboldened and are wresting more territory from the U.S.-backed Afghan government.


JUNE 21, 2021: Taliban take key Afghan district, adding to string of gains

Taliban fighters took control of a key district in Afghanistan’s northern Kunduz province Monday and encircled the provincial capital, police said, as the insurgent group added to its recent battlefield victories while peace talks have stalemated.


JULY 9, 2021: Taliban makes gains in Afghanistan, taking over key border crossing to Iran

The Taliban have made further territorial gains in Afghanistan over the past day, capturing two strategic border crossings just days after the hasty departure of US combat troops from the country. One of the crossings that have fallen to the Taliban is in the town of Islam Qala in the north-western province of Herat and is a key gateway into Iran.


JULY 10, 2021: Taliban say they control 85% of Afghanistan, humanitarian concerns mount

Taliban officials said on Friday the Sunni Muslim insurgent group had taken control of 85% of territory in Afghanistan, and international concern mounted over problems getting medicines and supplies into the country.


Has it really been a lightning fast, quick collapse? Or does it just look that way if you only started paying attention four days ago?
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
About the "lightning-fast" fall of Afghanistan and "quick collapse" of Afghan security forces... (Original Post) EarlG Aug 2021 OP
Sounds to me like Donnie surrendered and made sure it would look like we lost while Biden was potus unblock Aug 2021 #1
you can tell joes pissed @ trump** in his comments, interviews etc.... samnsara Aug 2021 #11
Not exactly. trump didn't expect to lose the election. brush Aug 2021 #20
Lightning fast, like since Trump admin negotiated the Doha agreement... Thomas Hurt Aug 2021 #2
Military intelligence. Treefrog Aug 2021 #3
There was no blitzkrieg dalton99a Aug 2021 #4
thanks for the informational post reality1 Aug 2021 #5
Plus, CNN justie18 Aug 2021 #6
+100 Thanks again. abqtommy Aug 2021 #12
1055 Americans died of Covid in past 24 hours. Jon King Aug 2021 #7
like Nicolle Wallace said..to paraphrase..The American public will love the decision.. samnsara Aug 2021 #13
donnie walked out and yes the taliban were always there . AllaN01Bear Aug 2021 #8
The idea was that the Afghan government would last at least another 6 months andym Aug 2021 #9
One reason for the "'lightning fast' fall?" BobTheSubgenius Aug 2021 #10
Kicking this recent history lesson, EarlG Hekate Aug 2021 #14
Hamid Karzai was often said to be president of Kabul, not all of Afghanistan. JaneQPublic Aug 2021 #15
Putin's puppet llashram Aug 2021 #16
Exactly correct relayerbob Aug 2021 #17
About that "Disgraceful Peace Deal" moondust Aug 2021 #18
And the trump admin refused to work with the incoming Biden Administration Swallowtail Aug 2021 #19
Yes! EndlessWire Aug 2021 #22
This exactly. And you'd think the DUers bashing Biden about... brush Aug 2021 #23
Post removed Post removed Aug 2021 #24
Thank you for this timeline Wild blueberry Aug 2021 #21
News media seems to gloss over this for some reason. triron Aug 2021 #25
Thank you. A map from 2017 showed areas of Taliban control and Taliban presence Solly Mack Aug 2021 #26
I'm trying to think of any war ever ymetca Aug 2021 #27
K&R GoodRaisin Aug 2021 #28
K & R Nevilledog Aug 2021 #29
Thanks, EarlG. This is invaluable information we all need. crickets Aug 2021 #30
KNR and bookmarking niyad Aug 2021 #31

unblock

(52,317 posts)
1. Sounds to me like Donnie surrendered and made sure it would look like we lost while Biden was potus
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 10:59 AM
Aug 2021

brush

(53,843 posts)
20. Not exactly. trump didn't expect to lose the election.
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:33 PM
Aug 2021

He thought right about now he'd be getting all the praise for pulling out of Afghanistan. And being trump, there was probably some secret, under-the-table scheme worked out for him to get paid.

dalton99a

(81,570 posts)
4. There was no blitzkrieg
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:09 AM
Aug 2021

In most places, they just let their reputation precede them and casually strolled in

reality1

(123 posts)
5. thanks for the informational post
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:23 AM
Aug 2021

Has it really been a lightning fast, quick collapse? Or does it just look that way if you only started paying attention four days ago?

It only looks that way if you just started paying attention.

justie18

(169 posts)
6. Plus, CNN
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:39 AM
Aug 2021

Jake Tapper at CNN and all the other pundit with hair on fire coverage are aware of these facts.

Jon King

(1,910 posts)
7. 1055 Americans died of Covid in past 24 hours.
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:42 AM
Aug 2021

But its good to see hours long press conferences where tons of media press the government for every detail about Afghanistan. A few Americans got 'jostled' in Afghanistan yesterday....while 1055 died here. But lets lead the news with it, have a 10 person panel to discuss it, and spend 3/4ths of each hour on it.

Great to see our media is focusing on what truly affects Americans.

samnsara

(17,635 posts)
13. like Nicolle Wallace said..to paraphrase..The American public will love the decision..
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:58 AM
Aug 2021

..and the media will hate it. she was right! The media is stuck in buttery males mode....I just turn the channel. Joe made the right decision (imho).

AllaN01Bear

(18,384 posts)
8. donnie walked out and yes the taliban were always there .
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:46 AM
Aug 2021

wore one hat and when we pulled out put on another .

andym

(5,445 posts)
9. The idea was that the Afghan government would last at least another 6 months
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:48 AM
Aug 2021

according to what was being reported. Biden's team thought they had even more time according to other reports--that's why he said the speed of the collapse was surprising. That would have given enough time for the evacuation.

June 21, 2021
https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collapse-six-months-after-u-s-withdrawal-new-intelligence-assessment-says-11624466743
"Afghan Government Could Collapse Six Months After US Withdrawal New Intelligence Assessment says"
---
What happened was that morale among the Afghan troops was much lower than the US thought and each loss increased the problem. The fall of Kandahar seemed to be a key event, as it must have convinced Afghan soldiers their cause was hopeless. That Mazar fell so quickly afterwards was shocking-- Mazar was seat of power of the former Northern Alliance, which with US help took over the country in 2001. If any real resistance would have occured it would have been there.

It seems that Afghan soldiers almost certainly did not want to give their lives for what seemed to be a doomed cause. US inelligence did not predict the effect of despair on Afghan troops.


As late as July, President Biden was sure a Vietnam collapse would not happen:
July 8, 2021
https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifted-off-embassy-roof-afghanistan-resurfaces-just-that-happens-1619517
"The Taliban is not the south—the North Vietnamese army. They're not—they're not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There's going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the—of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable," Biden insisted during a July 8 press conference."

I think this explains why so many Americans and cooperating Afghans remained in Afghanistan by last weekend. It was a surprise.

Look at your map: on August 13, Kabul the seat of government is under only moderate Taliban threat. Two days later it falls.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,564 posts)
10. One reason for the "'lightning fast' fall?"
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:54 AM
Aug 2021

After going through this time after time throughout their history, the Afghans are getting good at taking their country back. The fact that it's the Taliban driving the bus is distressing, but far from surprising.

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
15. Hamid Karzai was often said to be president of Kabul, not all of Afghanistan.
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:04 PM
Aug 2021

A Google search of "president of Kabul" yields quotes of various people making that statement during both decades of the war.

From the beginning of US involvement, it was widely understood that the rest of the country was largely in Taliban control, not the government's.

Clearly, that limited reach of the Afghan president did not improve one whit under Ghani.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
16. Putin's puppet
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:06 PM
Aug 2021

did this 'deal'. Putin knew what the 'deal' would turn out to be. A dumb POS like trump never saw it. Maybe an 'advisor' or two did. But in the end, the mini-fuhrer was always right, I'm sure.

moondust

(20,005 posts)
18. About that "Disgraceful Peace Deal"
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:17 PM
Aug 2021

Where did it originate? Moscow? Beijing?

Somebody have their eye on Afghan's rare earth metals or something?

Maybe cough up some b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶...er...incentives to git 'er done?

Swallowtail

(16 posts)
19. And the trump admin refused to work with the incoming Biden Administration
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:29 PM
Aug 2021

Basically, there was no transition, since the trumpies refused to concede, so Biden and his staff were left in the dark about Afghanistan.

EndlessWire

(6,565 posts)
22. Yes!
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:43 PM
Aug 2021

Trump owns this. He made the deal. And, being the complete asshole that he is, his regime impeded the transition and contributed to this current state. I'll bet he didn't say a damned thing about it. I BLAME TRUMP.

brush

(53,843 posts)
23. This exactly. And you'd think the DUers bashing Biden about...
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 12:54 PM
Aug 2021

the Afghan situation would get that trump kept the new admin in the dark about the give-aways in that agreement. And then of course the Afghan president fled the country with millions in cash just five days ago, and the Afghan military folded completely.

All of that was just dumped in Biden's lap five days ago and he's getting trashed mercilessly by other Dems, as if he was supposed to have known all this was going to happen even though his intel was telling him he had six months, not five days, to complete the evacuation.

The 24/7 media grilling I get, as that's what they do. Many of them are like piranhas who smell blood in the water and swarm into a feeding frenzy—but other Democrats? It's disgusting as it could weaken our chances in the mid-terms of keeping our majorities in Congress. And if we lose both the House and Senate, democracy is lost.

Response to Swallowtail (Reply #19)

Solly Mack

(90,785 posts)
26. Thank you. A map from 2017 showed areas of Taliban control and Taliban presence
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 02:09 PM
Aug 2021

If you were only looking at the controlled cities, you'd get a false sense of their actual influence. A Taliban "presence" does equal influence - as they are a known threat to those who go against them.

But if you looked at the areas of the Taliban having a "presence" you could see they were entirely encircling the larger cities, especially Kabul - where they had a strong presence.

They controlled the borders except for a small strip heading toward China and a larger one into Iran - BUT - they were present in the areas on either side of the strips. Strips/regions they had full control of in the week of August 13 2021 - as shown in the OP. Meaning they wasted no time over those 4 years securing their domain.

People entering Afghanistan across land bumped into that Taliban circle around the country at some point and the areas in beige that branch were mostly likely the usual routes/trade routes for goods and people. Meaning the Taliban moved freely about the borders - for goods and people.

This map is from August 2017

Mustard: Control
Beige: Presence
Red: Islamic State



If you look at the major red vein on the right side you will see a gray dot, that's Jalalabad. The next dot over is Kabul.

How Much of Afghanistan Is Under Taliban Control After 16 Years of War With the U.S.?


Only quick if you recently started paying attention. The Taliban were already there. They didn't have to take over or conquer or gain control - they were already there and waiting.

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
27. I'm trying to think of any war ever
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 08:20 PM
Aug 2021

where "the withdrawal was peaceful and orderly".

Besides, what's the old adage? "There's profit in chaos."

crickets

(25,983 posts)
30. Thanks, EarlG. This is invaluable information we all need.
Thu Aug 19, 2021, 11:39 PM
Aug 2021

Goodness knows we aren't getting this level of sense from most media outlets right now.

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