General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbout the "lightning-fast" fall of Afghanistan and "quick collapse" of Afghan security forces...
Here's a map of Afghanistan showing the areas that the Taliban either already controlled or were on the verge of controlling as of LAST WEEK:
They have been gaining ground for a long time.
If you read the peace agreement itself, youll note immediately that it gives the Taliban a series of concrete, measurable gifts. First, theres an immediate allied withdrawal down to 8,600 American troops (and proportionate numbers of allied troops) within 135 days. The remainder of American and allied forces will leave within 14 months.
At the same time, the United States will immediately and substantially reinforce the Taliban by seeking the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners by March 20. Even worse, the United States further agreed to a goal of releasing all remaining prisoners over the course of the subsequent three months. It will do this at the same time that it commits to the goal of removing sanctions from members of the Taliban that include travel bans, asset freezes, and an arms embargo.
The combination of the planned American retreat and the planned prisoner release would represent a substantial change in the balance of forces in Afghanistan. This would come without any agreement by the Taliban to cease hostilities against our allies.
Nine months later...
The Taliban have been encroaching on key cities around Afghanistan for months, threatening to drive the country to its breaking point and push the Biden administration into a no-win situation just as the United States longest war is supposed to be coming to an end.
Baryalai, a local military commander with a ferocious reputation, points down the road, "the government forces are just there by the main market, but they can't leave their bases. This territory belongs to the mujahideen". It's a similar picture across much of Afghanistan: the government controls the cities and bigger towns, but the Taliban are encircling them, with a presence in large parts of the countryside.
With U.S. forces on track to withdraw completely by Sept. 11 and possibly as soon as mid-July many Afghans, like Nazir, are happy to see their backs. Others fear chaos. For most, the fighting has gone on for so long that sides are irrelevant; theyll give allegiance to whoever stops the carnage.
That increasingly looks like itll be the Taliban, which is in the ascendant across the land.
In the last six months, its fighters blitzed into districts around Kandahar province Arghandab, Panjwayi, Maiwand and Zhari as part of a nationwide campaign. Earlier this month, the Islamist militant group seized Dahla, Afghanistans second-biggest dam and an essential source of irrigation and drinking water. Though the government clawed back some of those gains, the Taliban has tightened its vise-like grip around Kandahar city, the one area in the province still under relatively uncontested government control.
In the two decades since, the Taliban have fought the Afghan government and its international allies to regain land and power. Analysts say the insurgents have been growing stronger for years. Now, as American and NATO troops withdraw, the Taliban appear even more emboldened and are wresting more territory from the U.S.-backed Afghan government.
Taliban fighters took control of a key district in Afghanistans northern Kunduz province Monday and encircled the provincial capital, police said, as the insurgent group added to its recent battlefield victories while peace talks have stalemated.
The Taliban have made further territorial gains in Afghanistan over the past day, capturing two strategic border crossings just days after the hasty departure of US combat troops from the country. One of the crossings that have fallen to the Taliban is in the town of Islam Qala in the north-western province of Herat and is a key gateway into Iran.
Taliban officials said on Friday the Sunni Muslim insurgent group had taken control of 85% of territory in Afghanistan, and international concern mounted over problems getting medicines and supplies into the country.
Has it really been a lightning fast, quick collapse? Or does it just look that way if you only started paying attention four days ago?
unblock
(52,317 posts)samnsara
(17,635 posts)brush
(53,843 posts)He thought right about now he'd be getting all the praise for pulling out of Afghanistan. And being trump, there was probably some secret, under-the-table scheme worked out for him to get paid.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Treefrog
(4,170 posts)Always an oxymoron.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)In most places, they just let their reputation precede them and casually strolled in
reality1
(123 posts)Has it really been a lightning fast, quick collapse? Or does it just look that way if you only started paying attention four days ago?
It only looks that way if you just started paying attention.
Jake Tapper at CNN and all the other pundit with hair on fire coverage are aware of these facts.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)Jon King
(1,910 posts)But its good to see hours long press conferences where tons of media press the government for every detail about Afghanistan. A few Americans got 'jostled' in Afghanistan yesterday....while 1055 died here. But lets lead the news with it, have a 10 person panel to discuss it, and spend 3/4ths of each hour on it.
Great to see our media is focusing on what truly affects Americans.
samnsara
(17,635 posts)..and the media will hate it. she was right! The media is stuck in buttery males mode....I just turn the channel. Joe made the right decision (imho).
AllaN01Bear
(18,384 posts)wore one hat and when we pulled out put on another .
andym
(5,445 posts)according to what was being reported. Biden's team thought they had even more time according to other reports--that's why he said the speed of the collapse was surprising. That would have given enough time for the evacuation.
June 21, 2021
https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghan-government-could-collapse-six-months-after-u-s-withdrawal-new-intelligence-assessment-says-11624466743
"Afghan Government Could Collapse Six Months After US Withdrawal New Intelligence Assessment says"
---
What happened was that morale among the Afghan troops was much lower than the US thought and each loss increased the problem. The fall of Kandahar seemed to be a key event, as it must have convinced Afghan soldiers their cause was hopeless. That Mazar fell so quickly afterwards was shocking-- Mazar was seat of power of the former Northern Alliance, which with US help took over the country in 2001. If any real resistance would have occured it would have been there.
It seems that Afghan soldiers almost certainly did not want to give their lives for what seemed to be a doomed cause. US inelligence did not predict the effect of despair on Afghan troops.
As late as July, President Biden was sure a Vietnam collapse would not happen:
July 8, 2021
https://www.newsweek.com/clip-biden-saying-people-wont-lifted-off-embassy-roof-afghanistan-resurfaces-just-that-happens-1619517
"The Taliban is not the souththe North Vietnamese army. They're notthey're not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There's going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in theof the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable," Biden insisted during a July 8 press conference."
I think this explains why so many Americans and cooperating Afghans remained in Afghanistan by last weekend. It was a surprise.
Look at your map: on August 13, Kabul the seat of government is under only moderate Taliban threat. Two days later it falls.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,564 posts)After going through this time after time throughout their history, the Afghans are getting good at taking their country back. The fact that it's the Taliban driving the bus is distressing, but far from surprising.
Hekate
(90,788 posts)JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)A Google search of "president of Kabul" yields quotes of various people making that statement during both decades of the war.
From the beginning of US involvement, it was widely understood that the rest of the country was largely in Taliban control, not the government's.
Clearly, that limited reach of the Afghan president did not improve one whit under Ghani.
llashram
(6,265 posts)did this 'deal'. Putin knew what the 'deal' would turn out to be. A dumb POS like trump never saw it. Maybe an 'advisor' or two did. But in the end, the mini-fuhrer was always right, I'm sure.
relayerbob
(6,554 posts)moondust
(20,005 posts)Where did it originate? Moscow? Beijing?
Somebody have their eye on Afghan's rare earth metals or something?
Maybe cough up some b̶r̶i̶b̶e̶s̶...er...incentives to git 'er done?
Swallowtail
(16 posts)Basically, there was no transition, since the trumpies refused to concede, so Biden and his staff were left in the dark about Afghanistan.
EndlessWire
(6,565 posts)Trump owns this. He made the deal. And, being the complete asshole that he is, his regime impeded the transition and contributed to this current state. I'll bet he didn't say a damned thing about it. I BLAME TRUMP.
brush
(53,843 posts)the Afghan situation would get that trump kept the new admin in the dark about the give-aways in that agreement. And then of course the Afghan president fled the country with millions in cash just five days ago, and the Afghan military folded completely.
All of that was just dumped in Biden's lap five days ago and he's getting trashed mercilessly by other Dems, as if he was supposed to have known all this was going to happen even though his intel was telling him he had six months, not five days, to complete the evacuation.
The 24/7 media grilling I get, as that's what they do. Many of them are like piranhas who smell blood in the water and swarm into a feeding frenzybut other Democrats? It's disgusting as it could weaken our chances in the mid-terms of keeping our majorities in Congress. And if we lose both the House and Senate, democracy is lost.
Response to Swallowtail (Reply #19)
Post removed
Wild blueberry
(6,655 posts)triron
(22,020 posts)Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)If you were only looking at the controlled cities, you'd get a false sense of their actual influence. A Taliban "presence" does equal influence - as they are a known threat to those who go against them.
But if you looked at the areas of the Taliban having a "presence" you could see they were entirely encircling the larger cities, especially Kabul - where they had a strong presence.
They controlled the borders except for a small strip heading toward China and a larger one into Iran - BUT - they were present in the areas on either side of the strips. Strips/regions they had full control of in the week of August 13 2021 - as shown in the OP. Meaning they wasted no time over those 4 years securing their domain.
People entering Afghanistan across land bumped into that Taliban circle around the country at some point and the areas in beige that branch were mostly likely the usual routes/trade routes for goods and people. Meaning the Taliban moved freely about the borders - for goods and people.
This map is from August 2017
Mustard: Control
Beige: Presence
Red: Islamic State
If you look at the major red vein on the right side you will see a gray dot, that's Jalalabad. The next dot over is Kabul.
How Much of Afghanistan Is Under Taliban Control After 16 Years of War With the U.S.?
Only quick if you recently started paying attention. The Taliban were already there. They didn't have to take over or conquer or gain control - they were already there and waiting.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)where "the withdrawal was peaceful and orderly".
Besides, what's the old adage? "There's profit in chaos."
Nevilledog
(51,197 posts)crickets
(25,983 posts)Goodness knows we aren't getting this level of sense from most media outlets right now.