I respect and admire Clarissa Ward, but she is not at all qualified to comment on

[Atticus]

"what we (Joe Biden) should do".

Yes, what is happening is very bad, but an exhausted, frightened and very emotional journalist---no matter how brave---should not decide our incredibly complex and fraught foreign policy.

[secondwind]

1. I agree, I think she's giving her own assessment,

that is how I see her. Her opinion is her own.

[hlthe2b]

2. I've noted that for a lot of those interviewed with stake in those left behind. I appreciate their

emotional response (which I share) but when asked what they think COULD be done going forward, they deflect back to excoriating Biden for what has already occured. Fine, mistakes made. What do we do going forward? Not one will even attempt to answer that--meaning they have no better clue than anyone else. yet the person interviewing them fold and don't press.

Coverage across the board has generally been abysmal

[madaboutharry]

3. I also respect her, but she is walking up to the line

to the point of becoming part of the story. Her job is to report what is happening not opine on what should happen.

I hope she stays safe.

[martingale73]

4. Completely Disagree

Ward has seen 1st hand the chaos and violence that is happening in Kabul, on the road to the airport, and the chaos inside the airport behind our marines and soldiers. Clarissa has seen a version of hell when evil comes to power: Families handing infants to marines to lift then over wall with barbed wire knowing that is likely to be the last time they see their child. Women on the streets one day and know hiding in their homes only going out when covered from head to toe and with male escorts.

The fact is this board cannot admit that while Biden was right to withdrawal his administration has bungled the execution. There are way to many questions to answer before we start firing people, but if Joes does not fire several of his cabinet level leaders over this then he is tolerating rank incompetence. And from his interview with ABC, Joe does not want to take accountability but say it was always going to be like this.

Watch Rachel Maddow's clip on how a veteran uses texts to bring an Afghan interpreter to safety. It's a moving clip and at the end, you have to admit that all of this was preventable. That under competent, methodical, disciplined leadership who prioritized getting people out prior to withdrawal this never would have happened.

As Democrats we constantly preach about the good government can bring. That it is not a necessary evil but an agent for advancing better outcomes for our society. This ideal requires honesty and transparency when government screws up, which we clearly did here.

[Treefrog]

7. This.

[Devil Child]

12. Well stated martingale73

[Atticus]

18. And, I completely disagree with your tenth post on DU. This is not about whether or not

what is happening is terrible. Of course it is. But, it is also not about what is best for the woman who handed her baby over the fence or the hardships women are likely to face in Afghanistan.

It is about "Given the mess Biden inherited from Trump and given how the instant surrender of Afghan forces was a done deal that no one anticipated, how best balance the interests of our military, the Americans and our allies still in Afghanistan AND the United States of America."

Could the withdrawal have been handled better? That seems to be the case, BUT---at some point we have go decide whether we trust the character and intent of President Biden.

I do. I shudder to consider what the former guy would be doing now.

[pwb]

22. Wow we got it all wrong.

Thanks.

[rockfordfile]

31. BS cut the right-wing smear

I support the President and the situation was never going to be a cake walk. Those Americans in there should've gotten out a year ago.
To stay would mean supporting the lies and corruption. Yes trump made the situation worst by releasing 5000 Taliban and created a May exit. That's at least a year ago.

It's comes off like you're a trump supporter. The GOP created the entire situation by going into that country.

[StopTheNeoCons]

47. Agree with Atticus, also disagree with the other guy's 10th post

[thucythucy]

35. While I agree with the general thrust of your post

you might consider what would have happened if the Biden administration had begun a large scale withdrawal of Americans and other foreign nationals before announcing the pull out.

It would have been obvious that his administration had decided to cut the cord, but without announcing it. The Afghan government and military--already on the verge of collapse after Trump's horrific backstabbing deal--would have done just what they did anyway, and the evacuations would most likely have been no easier.

Except then neo-cons and Republicans (and perhaps the Afghan leadership as well) would then have blamed the collapse entirely on Biden. "He caused this to fall apart by signaling the end of US/NATO support. Everything would have been fine if only Biden hadn't cut and run..." and so on.

Thousands would have been stranded anyway. The media would have pounced anyway. The Taliban would be in control anyway. And the pundit class would be blaming Biden alone for the entire collapse, and not just the botched (in my opinion anyway) evacuation.

But yes, this has been a screw up. The Trump administration ended the processing of visas for eligible (endangered) Afghans. There should have been an immediate ramping up of that program, cutting the paperwork, evacuating people first from the outlying areas, then Kabul itself.

Then again, recall that Trump adamantly refused to share any information with the incoming administration. Instead of having a normal transition from one administration to the next, the Biden team arrived on January 20th without any of the usual briefings, case books, etc. And the focus, for good or ill (and I think mostly for good) was on getting a handle on the raging pandemic, the cratering economy, and the domestic terrorist threat. All this while scrambling to make appointments, put together an administration in the face of unending opposition from Republicans. I don't think any administration has had to deal with this kind of opposition, not since Lincoln anyway.

I'd like to see an in-depth investigation and public examination of ALL of what happened in Afghanistan, beginning with the decision to allow bin Laden to escape from Tora Bora. That alone should have been a clue as to whether or not our Afghan "allies" were truly committed to securing their country from Taliban and other extremists.

The closest we had post Vietnam was the publication of the Pentagon Papers (which actually happened while the war was ongoing). We never had a deep, comprehensive assessment of why we got involved in Vietnam to begin with, and all that went wrong from Truman to Ford, with the result that we keep repeating the same mistakes at a horrific cost in lives and treasure.

Nation building in Afghanistan never had a chance--for one thing "Afghanistan" has never been a nation, but rather a loose knit conglomeration of different ethnic groups historically at odds with each other. Just as "South Vietnam" was a cold war fiction, "Afghanistan" exists for the most part as lines on a map.

But then, we can't even get a bipartisan investigation on an actual coup attempt, so I doubt we'll see what's needed in this case. With the result that twenty years from now we'll tangle our horns in some other part of the world, with similar or worse results.

[Kaleva]

52. +1

[Hortensis]

5. A journalist, her or another, said that people pressure on our government

to bring out those who worked with the Americans will disappear (poof!) when the media stop agitating for it. The way it always does. Of course many foreign journalists don't just see but know Afghans they believe will soon be dead if they don't get out.

And equally of course, the MSM that elect Republicans are augmenting this aspect for political purpose as well. A very useful distraction from our own death counts from the Republican pandemic.

[Treefrog]

6. "Very emotional"

We all know what you mean.

She’s doing a fantastic job in an amazingly difficult situation. Not sure how you think she is in any position to “decide our foreign policy.”

[Atticus]

17. I meant just what I said---nothing more. I thought we'd heard the last of "I'll tell you

what he really means!" when Rush became worm chow.

[iemanja]

30. +1

[snowybirdie]

8. You are so right

The embedded correspondents have invested years over there. They have become biased and identify with the people there. Not a bad thing, but their reporting is emotional at this point. Come home folks and see the overall picture.

[ansible]

9. So basically you can't accept any criticism of Biden

Good lord

[Treefrog]

10. Especially from an "emotional woman."

[treestar]

43. woman or man, we don't need "emotional" reporters

they can just tell us what they found out.

I don't get why they always have to tell us their opinion or put their spin on it.

[Treefrog]

44. Walter Cronkite was just an awful reporter, huh?

Same with Dan Rather.

How dare they get “emotional” over Vietnam deaths?

[treestar]

45. I don't recall that but I'm sure it was not

all the time. Still, we didn't need them to get emotional to make up our minds about the facts.

At least they stuck to the facts, unlike today. Strange to come up with such an old reporter as Walter Cronkite on this subject. I think he reported the news, didn't spin and didn't try to tell us what to think of it.

And then your examples undermine the idea it is sexist to think female reporters should act professional, too.

[Treefrog]

46. Strange to come up with such "an old reporter" such as Walter Cronkite. Really.

No idea your age, but he was in my lifetime. Rather is still alive.

Cronkite’s opinions and comments on the war are largely credited with changing the mind of the nation. Do some research if you can’t remember those days or are too young. Very easy to find this info. Very widely known.

Sorry, but can’t make heads nor tails of your last sentence, but I’m busy in the garden. Enjoy your day!

[Atticus]

19. Rush would have loved you---"i know what he said, but lemme tell you what he

REALLY meant!"

I guess that's convenient.

[Treefrog]

23. I've never been insulted with Rush comments before.

Hilarious.

[Atticus]

25. Cool story, dude. nt

[treestar]

42. Why can't we decide for ourselves

why do these "reporters" always think they have to do it for us?

[egduj]

11. The Taliban agrees with you. They also don't think she should be a journalist.

[Treefrog]

14. Probably for the same reasons...

Last edited Fri Aug 20, 2021, 03:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[Atticus]

21. That's the type of drive-by insult I've come to expect from you. In your less than six months

on DU, you seem to favor that rather than actually responding to what was actually said.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute or will you just try more snark?

[pwb]

24. Post 666 for you?

You are not Satan are you? Just kidding. I agree.

[Treefrog]

36. Lol.

[bigtree]

13. reminds me of geraldo

...walking around an historically unsafe area in another country looking for trouble - basically what Clarrissa's crew is doing with the producer egging them on to more.



image taken from television shows Fox News' Geraldo Rivera in Afghanistan on Thursday, Dec. 6, 2001. Rivera was taping a report on a ridge near Jalalabad when he was fired upon by a sniper. (AP Photos/Fox News Network)

[Treefrog]

15. If you're comparing Geraldo Rivera to Clarissa Ward, you really know nothing about her.

Wow.

[bigtree]

27. lol

...the drama.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

16. She made it past the crush to get through airport gate, has been reporting inside live for 8 hrs

Her eyes and ears on the ground are what reporters are supposed to do, if anybody has a right to speak their mind about this shitshow, its her.

[Treefrog]

37. This.

Thank you.

[kentuck]

26. I heard a report from her today...

but she was not live on camera. It didn't sound like her? It sounded like someone else? Did anyone else notice a different voice?

[moondust]

28. Evacuation of that many people

from a foreign land was always going to be messy no matter how much planning and effort was put into it. Period. Even without a gang of vengeful misogynists interfering.

[thucythucy]

40. And knowing this withdrawal was coming, exactly how many people did Trump evacuate?

Not entirely sure, but i suspect the answer is: zero.

[ShazzieB]

50. I suspect you would be right about that.

After all, we now know that TFG's administration deliberately screwed up the visa approval process (or whatever you call it) for Afghans who knew they were going to need to get out when the Americans left. They had all kinds of time to plan for this, but it looks like their only goals for the transition were:

1. Get out of Afghanistan.
2. Let as few of those brown Muslim Afghans as possible into the US.

Anyone who thinks the previous administration would have willingly given asylum to a single one of the afghans who helped us over there is as delusional as the Mango Maniac himself.

[thucythucy]

53. "The Mango Maniac"

That's a good one, and added to my list.

Some of my favorites:

Hair Furor
Mango Mussolini
Cantaloupe Caligula
Trumple-thin-skin.

Best wishes.

[progressoid]

29. exhausted, frightened and very emotional journalist?

I'm not familiar with her work but it seems that she's got more than a little experience with this type of situation

She covered many foreign news stories including the Syrian Uprising, Chinese civil rights activist Chen Guangcheng's stay at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and subsequent United States - China negotiations, and the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.

In her first 60 Minutes report in 2012, Ward and her team braved sniper-fire and aerial bombardments in the Syrian city of Aleppo to deliver one of the first reports examining the growth of Islamic extremism within the opposition. In July 2013, Ward reported on the unrest in Egypt, filming in the same area where CBS correspondent Lara Logan had been sexually assaulted a few years prior. In October 2014, Ward returned to Syria undercover to interview two Western jihadis - a young American man and a former Dutch soldier - about their paths to radicalism.

On 21 September 2015, CNN announced that Ward was joining the network and reporting for all of CNN's platforms, and would remain based in London. On August 8, 2016, she spoke at a United Nations Security Council meeting on the situation in the civil war-torn Aleppo, based on her 10+ years' experience of being a war correspondent.

In July 2018, CNN named Ward its chief international correspondent, succeeding Christiane Amanpour in the role. In 2019, she became one of the first Western reporters to report on the life in the Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan. In August 2020, reports emerged that Ward and her team were under surveillance while in the Central African Republic in May 2019.

In December 2020, in a joint investigation by The Insider and Bellingcat in co-operation with CNN and Der Spiegel, she reported how Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) members stalked Alexei Navalny for years, including just before his poisoning in August 2020. The investigation detailed a special unit of the FSB specializing in chemical substances and investigators tracked members of the unit using telecom and travel data.

Ward received a George Foster Peabody Award on May 21, 2012, in New York City for her journalistic coverage inside Syria during the Syrian uprising. In October 2014, Washington State University announced that Ward would receive the 2015 Murrow Award for International Reporting in April 2015. She has also received seven Emmy Awards, an Alfred I. duPont-Columbia Silver Baton, and honors from the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association.

[demmiblue]

34. +1

[Treefrog]

39. ...this woman has an opinion too.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215764626

[rockfordfile]

32. Didn't she work at fox news?

[demmiblue]

33. I'm surprised you didn't throw in "hysterical".

Ugh.

[Treefrog]

38. Surprised at that too.

+1

[treestar]

41. Why do they always have to tell us what to think

Are there any reporters any more? I don't want to hear their opinions. The facts, and from them, I can make an opinion.

[Treefrog]

51. Remember Cronkite? Rather?

Memories seem to be short these days.

I remember when du revered those guys, especially when emotional.

[gulliver]

48. Emotion-holics have made the coverage very troubling for me emotionally

My main emotion is worry that we'll do a bunch of stupid stuff in response to the inarguably emotion-affecting coverage we get.

I'm happy that Ward has been on-site in Afghanistan. Do I think she's going to "get the story" in Afghanistan by being there? Nope. She just provides one or two pieces of data. Her opinion goes in the bin with all the others...evaluated on experience, cogency, and evidence.

[GoodRaisin]

49. I guess she's as qualified to comment as any of the rest of the press

that are giving their opinions about how Joe does his job, but like all the others, they are only opinions and only one person actually has that job to do. And, my opinion is Joe is doing a fine job of doing his job.