Reinstate the draft for males and females

[KT2000]

As I lost another relative to the divide in this country I was trying to think of what it would take to bring this country together. Wars have not done it, and a pandemic has only made it worse. So what is a shared experience that is about country and following rules - the draft, or compulsory service.
Currently, we have our military but we also depend on non-citizens to fill the ranks. We also depend upon mercenary companies as well. If we are true patriots shouldn't we all share in the risk part of maintaining our country? I believe it would make more people acutely aware of what debacles we get into and surely define what everyone means about the concept of freedoms.

Proud Boys, Sovereign Citizens etc. scream about their freedoms and media paints them as victims of lost freedoms. Let's see how free we would be in a military draft, or compulsory enlistment. This is one place where anti-vaccers and anti-maskers would be set straight on what it takes to be a patriot.

During the Viet Nam War people were divided as to its need but every male who was 18 years old was sharing the draft experience. We can change that to male and females sharing their military or compulsory service experiences. Opinions do not hold a country together but shared experiences may be a start.

[Skittles]

1. how about we wait until we have the first female president

that would be nice

[spooky3]

4. And maybe not even then. The draft's possible advantages are

outweighed by disadvantages.

Historians don’t typically describe the 60s as a unified time, and it was not attributable to drafting only poor men.

[Hoyt]

2. Don't think that would be wise for Biden to propose. Just saying.

[UTUSN]

3. The draft was the deep motivation for protests against Vietnam war, more than "peace".

The war mongers learned this to continue their mongering, so they did away with it.

Now that we know the fallacies of the Vietnam war, perhaps the motivations are moot. It was enough to be against it just for itself, nothing else needed.

Uh, this sounds like it could apply to the current events.

[KT2000]

26. Agree - that is what brought it home

I just read an article from 2019 that said there were more contractor deaths 3800+ in Afghanistan than military. That was noted by a Brown University project because the US does not release death numbers for contractors.

https://www.businessinsider.com/more-us-contractors-have-died-in-afghanistan-than-us-troops-2019-12

[Gore1FL]

5. I submit we should stop draft registration for everyone, not expand it. nt

[leftstreet]

10. +1

[DemocraticPatriot]

13. Indeed.

[jcmaine72]

18. +1 This

[Demsrule86]

25. I agree completely.

[former9thward]

6. And what would you do with the people?

Four million men and women turn 18 each year. About 200,000 people are needed by the military each year. So that means you have 20 times the number of people that are needed to fill current positions. What do you do with the rest?

[BannonsLiver]

7. Let's not and say we did.

We’re never going to be unified again. People need to start wrapping their heads around that reality and figure out a way to live with it. Too much has been said and done.

[Iggo]

8. No deferments?

Pull ‘em out of country clubs, high schools, and colleges, as well as the usual farm-towns and inner-cities? 18 and up? No exceptions?

[KT2000]

20. Yes - even is someone has bone spurs

something else can be found for them to do.

[c-rational]

9. I had posted early on about National Service. There is certainly enough to be done...

climate change mitigation, national parks, coastal cleanup including the Great Lakes. I do believe it would be a good and unifying thing.

[Demsrule86]

24. No, we do not have the right in a free country to force our citizens to become

slaves for the state. No compulsory service of any kind. This is a free country.

[tritsofme]

11. I'm having trouble thinking of a more terrible and unpopular idea.

I mean, maybe if your goal is for Republicans to sweep super-majorities in Congress and then the White House, it might be a good idea for Democrats to champion a compulsory draft.

Otherwise, just plain stupid.

[Polybius]

12. We're winning Gen Z voters

Let's not do anything to change that.

[Justice matters.]

14. The MIC would feel like it's time to false-flag a war against China...

Or if not China, North Korea, or Iran...

Hey! Plenty of captive cannon-fodders for pennies to the dollar!

[GoodRaisin]

15. Thinking about the day I spent listening for my draft number

while bodies were coming back from Vietnam. We should never do that to our young people again. It was barbaric.

[kcr]

16. Reinstating the draft won't cure us of our stupid relatives

It's a stupid idea, to begin with. It will never happen in a million years and even if it did, the rich would find a way to get their own kids out of it. We'd only be handing our own kids to them on a silver platter. Stupid.

[DFW]

17. Just when some allied countries are getting rid of it.

Postwar Germany had compulsory military service for men until very recently.

My wife's dad, mutilated by the horrors of Stalingrad after being drafted off his farm at age 17, fully supported his son's drugging himself to the point where he could hardly talk or stand up so that he failed his military muster (he had to do a year's civil service, instead). His most fervent wish was that all his grandchildren be girls, so that they would never be called to serve in the military.

Hold a poll of all 17 and 18 year olds, and see if they approve of this. I came of draftable age during the Vietnam War. I had a low lottery number, and only the fact that I was going to college got me my 2S student deferment. Sorry, but no way I was going to wear Nixon's uniform to blow up Vietnamese villages, and possibly get blown up myself in retaliation. The sixties had revealed just too much of the real nature of what we were up to there.

A friend of mine in Philadelphia, a couple of years older, had seen he was going to get inducted no matter what, so he volunteered for the Air Force, insisting that they note his abilities in German and Russian (his dad was a Ukrainian rabbi). Sure enough, they sent him to West Berlin to spy on the Soviet Air Force. He called both of them, their and ours, the "Air Farce." He spent two years there goofing off, transcribing boring radio traffic from Russian pilots. Sometimes, it really WAS a farce. The Russians had built a new fighter jet and wanted to show it off to the East Germans. They ordered one to take off from their base in Poland and land at a base in East Germany. The pilot made one pass over the base and said the runway was way too short, and he'd crash if he tried to land on it. The angry Russian commander at the East German base yelled into the radio. Comrade Stupidov, you are hereby ordered to land at this base immediately! Comrade Stupidov radioed back, "Fuck your mother, the runway is too short, and I would crash if I tried to land on it. I am flying back to Poland! Конец связи! Konyets svyazy (Russian version of over and out)!" (which he presumably did) The American eavesdroppers were required to write down word for word what they heard, so my friend did just that.

So MAYBE that would have been a choice for me, too. I am glad I never had to make that choice. But again--ask the people that would be most affected by such a rule. If a majority of American 17 year olds and 18 year olds are willing and eager to be inducted for involuntary military service, then theirs is a voice we should listen to. But even then--if THAT many young people want to join the military at age 18, the number of volunteers alone would overwhelm the system. I know, for my part, I would never vote for the right of a state to force its youth to join the military against their will. I only had to know my father-in-law--drafted off his farm at age 17, sent to Stalingrad in the dead of winter at age 18, returned to his farm at age 19, minus a leg, blown off by an exploding artillery shell.

[madville]

19. 71% of people 18-25 are ineligible for military service

#1 reason is obesity, other major factors are criminal records, present and past drug use, being a single parent, physical and mental health problems, prohibited tattoos/body mutilation, and aptitude.

The idea of a draft outside of another world war or alien invasion is a fantasy Are they going to be turning away willing volunteers to make room for and take people against their will? It doesn’t really make any sense.

[meadowlander]

21. Yes, people too unpatriotic to wear a mask for fifteen minutes because it impinges on their freedoms

are definitely going to come around when the state requires absolute obedience from them for two or three years while they are put in harms way or forced to do work you can't pay people to do.

The state should not have the right to compel labor from its citizens. Full stop.

[North Shore Chicago]

22. No

Fuck that! Drafting women to fight a man's war would be insane.

For eons, the remarkable human who is female were not allowed to shine, now there is some light, making her fight for da-man is really a stinky and preposterous idea.

[Demsrule86]

23. No, there should be no draft period...in times of war, it is a tool that is used. But otherwise

N0! Is this a free country or not? And as a Navy brat, I can tell you, not everyone is cut out for the military.

[Klaralven]

27. The draft during Vietnam was not a unifying factor -- quite the opposite.

The draft is a means for the government to fight a war that the people do not support.

[KT2000]

35. It was the mechanism

that finally brought an end to the Viet Nam War. Too many people were affected by the draft and the real risk of loved ones going to war and being killed. Remember how huge the demonstrations were - all over the country. No one was untouched by the war's significance.

Afghanistan has not been on the minds of people for probably 20 years but Americans have been killed there including more contractors (3800+) than our military. Fatalities among contractors are not the business of the government, just their employers, so numbers are not released.

Most are not affected or even care about any war our country is involved in now except for a story on the news.

[niyad]

28. NO. Hell no.

[Captain Stern]

29. I don't think a draft here will ever work again.

Nobody under fifty years old remembers us having one.

Sure, they've learned there used to be one, but they don't personally remember it.

If we tried a draft now, hardly anyone would show up.

[Floyd R. Turbo]

30. Fuck The Draft! ✌🏻

[Paladin]

31. FTD! You're stirring up lots of memories for us old-timers. (nt)

[Floyd R. Turbo]

32. Lest we forget!

[KT2000]

36. That has been happening

all through the Afghanistan War too but we are all so detached from what our country is doing. Our wars are becoming employment agencies - more contractors have been killed in Afghanistan than American military. How they make it back to the states probably does not look like this but they are in boxes nonetheless.

Viet Nam was horrible and it touched all of us and there was passion to stop it from regular citizens. Few are invested in the new wars other than a story on the news. Had Bush reinstated a draft for the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars - do you think it would have taken 20 years to get out of Afghanistan?

[Floyd R. Turbo]

43. FTD! ✌🏻

[lillypaddle]

33. How about

NO!!!!

[Brother Buzz]

34. This dumb draftee is against it but the late Colonel Hackworth had some thoughts on a citizens' army

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price of admission." - Colonel Hackworth, About Face

But then again, Rumsfeld was against the draft so I might have to chew on this a bit more.

Rumsfeld said draftees "were sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months and then went out, adding no value, no advantage really, to the United States Armed Services over any sustained period of time, because (of) the churning that took place -- it took an enormous amount of effort in terms of training and then they were gone."

A draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy

[KT2000]

37. I like what Hackworth said

"...one in which everyone pays the price of admission."

Our wars have turned into employment agencies and are fueled by the profit motive. The US does not release death numbers for contractors but as of 2019 a Brown University project came up with 3800+ which was more than American military deaths at the time.

Not even on the radar of most Americans - hell - a Gold Star Dad was trashed by the president and it was only Democrats who even objected.

[fescuerescue]

38. I remember when progressives were against the Draft

And Republicans were for it.

It's amazing how sometimes people start working for the other side sometimes.

The next Republican President would sure appreciate it, if the Draft were in place.

Who do you think they would invade first?

[KT2000]

39. Yes - I remember too

I thought the draft was a fact of life and had always been. Because of the draft I got involved in the anti-war movement because I already had 2 family members in Viet Nam and I did not want my brother to go. I marched with my boyfriend who had returned from Viet Nam and was part of Viet Nam Veterans Against the War - yes he was drafted.

It looks like our country has no problem getting into wars. It is just that they do not affect many of us anymore because they are fought with volunteers, non-citizens promised a fast track to citizenship and private contractors. More private contractors have been killed in Afghanistan than American military.

We barely have to pay attention to this country's wars anymore because few are invested. Profit motive now plays a big part. How many people in America thought much about Afghanistan before this past week - not many.

[Initech]

40. If you really want to unite the country, get rid of Fox News!

If we could get that domino to fall, the rest would go with them!

[KT2000]

42. Yes - and all the other sites

that send out the same messages.

[Mr.Bill]

41. I was classified 1-H by the selective service

when I turned 18 in 1971. That meant that in the event of a war I would immediately become a hostage.


(old Woody Allen joke)

[dflprincess]

44. No, never.

And if it were reinstated, women should not be included unless and until the Equal Rights Amendment has been passed