RBG must be turning over in her grave about now over the Texas Law....

[ProudMNDemocrat]

May she rest in power.

Ruth Bader Ginsberg spent her entire life as a champion for Women's Rights under the law, men too. One of her more famous quotes...

"The decision whether or not to bear a child is central to a woman's life, to her well being and dignity. It is a decision she must make for herself. When Government controls that decision for her, she is being treated less than a fully adult human responsible for her own choices."

The landmark 1973 decision Roe v. Wade is skating on thin ice. The Conservatives on the US Supreme Court have to know popular opinion is not on their side when it comes to Reproductive freedom and choice. The Constitutional right of women to decide their fates hangs in the balance of 5 men and one woman. They overturn Roe, THIS is what they will be remembered for. Their legacies will have asterisks attached to them when it relates to the Constitutional Rights of Women.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg can rest in power knowing her legacy is intact.

For I am reminded daily of the women generations before me who marched, bled, were jailed, killed for my right to VOTE, to have access to Birth Control, to decide if ending a pregnancy was the best course for me.

What say you?

[niyad]

1. I say, I cannot believe that I am still having to protest this shit 50 years later, but I will,

Until women have full autonony. The femicidal, woman-hating, christofascist slavers can go straight to the hell in which they believe.

[rso]

3. Ginsburg

I think we’re witnessing the last desperate gasps of a dying ideology which either consciously or subconsciously realizes that its movement has no future, and is thus making its last efforts to try to change the inevitable future.

[rso]

2. Ginsburg

A great woman indeed, a titan of the law and of justice for all, but given her physical health issues, she should have retired when Obama was in power to ascertain that a right winger would not be appointed.

[Dream Girl]

4. She wanted Hillary Clinton to name her replacement.

“ Man plans, while the Gods laugh.

[Scrivener7]

8. I agree. And Breyer should do so now. For him not to do so, after seeing what happened

with RBG, would be an intentional destruction of the Supreme Court. He's not a dumb man. He knows what it means if a republiQan replaces him on the Court.

[jrthin]

9. I agree w/you. I am thankful for her legacy,

but I think her decision gave us the last 3 justices.

[StarfishSaver]

13. How did RBG not retiring give us Gorsuch and Kavanaigh?

[jrthin]

17. I overstated my point. But had she

retired early in Obama's presidency, Obama would have been able to fill her seat, therefore one less seat for the republicans. In essence, we'd still have the majority.

[StarfishSaver]

19. We don't know that Obama would have been able to fill her seat

Even with a Democratic majority in the Senate, that was not guaranteed.

And no, we still wouldn't have the majority. It's still 5-4 on a good day - and it's a mistake to assume that Roberts would have voted to block the Texas law had he been the deciding vote. Moreover, Roberts is still very likely to uphold the law on it's merits when it finally does get to the Court.

You have no idea what the outcome would have been had RBG retired earlier. And if the outcome was bad, people would now be blaming her for not sticking it out.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Yes, in hindsight, it cost us.

[rso]

18. Ginsberg

Her death gave us Amy Barrett. Had a liberal Justice been there instead of Barrett, and with CJ Roberts joining the liberals, the ruling would have been 5 to 4 against Texas.

[StarfishSaver]

23. You're wrong

First, the ruling wasn't for or against Texas. It was simply a ruling on whether to temporarily block the law, not a decision to find it unconstitutional on its merits. That still must be decided and there is no reason to believe that Roberts would vote to invalidate the law.

And no one has any reason to think that Robert's was suddenly in the minority. It's just as likely that he took the easy way out since the votes to let the law stand for now we're already there. Had there been a liberal justice on the Court, its like that Roberts would have swung his vote over to the conservative wing to give them the votes they needed.

[rso]

35. Ginsberg

Now you’re just making assumptions on top of guesses. Every indication from the actual and factual information we have today leads us to the logical conclusion that we would have been in a much better place had Justice Ginsberg, probably the greatest US jurist of all time, retired during a Democratic President and Democratic Senate.

[StarfishSaver]

37. Speaking of assumptions on top of guesses

"If RBG had stepped down, we wouldn't be in this mess!'

"You don't know what would have happened had RBG stepped down. Had she done so, many other scenarios could have played out as well and we could be in the same situation now."

"YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ON TOP OF GUESSES!!!"

Thank you for helping to make my point.

[rso]

45. Ginsberg

In fact, your assumptions and guesses are far more unrealistic and unknowable than those of individuals making the very logical and much more realistic argument that RBG should have retired while Obama was in a position to appoint her replacement.

[jrthin]

28. You're correct. nt

[StarfishSaver]

10. Right

And had she retired under Obama, McConnell would have kept her seat open for Trump, giving him a fourth seat and control of the Court from Day One ... And then, of course, people would have blamed RBG for vacating her seat and not staying the course as long as she could (especially since, had she given up the rigors of the bench, she likely would have lived past September 2020, giving naysayers an opportunity to say, "See - if she had just stuck it out, Biden could have picked her successor)

So, no. There is no "she shoulda" here. She did what she thought she should do and no one of us should assume all would have been well in an alternate reality that would not have occurred.

[rso]

20. Ginsburg

Obama was President for 8 years, including a period when democrats had the Senate majority. No way Moscow Mitch could have blocked anything.

[StarfishSaver]

24. Right.

Because in alternate reality fantasyland, things all go according to our plan and desires.

[rso]

46. RBG

No, but some plans are far more realistic and predictable than others.

[Demsrule86]

6. It was a 5/4 decision. I wish she had retired during the early Obama years.

She was a great Justice...but likely most of her hard work will be undone.

[Dream Girl]

12. Hubris. She convinced herself she could go and on despite severe health concern.

I Romberger her excer training videos. We are capable of this kind of hubris, but it doesn’t usually have such terrible consequences on so many.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Speaking of hubris

The RBG bashing is disgusting.

That woman devoted her life to fighting for us. Now people who haven't done a fraction for anyone much less all of us are sitting around on the sidelines playing Monday Morning Quarterback and blaming her for circumstances that she didn't create. Millions of progressive Democrats sat on their asses and hands because they decreed Obama not progressive or aggressive enough for their tastes and Hillary not suitable for them and allowed the White House, Senate, governorships, and statehouses to swing Republican - and now they're sanctimonious my blaming Ruth Bader Ginsberg for staying on her post and continuing to fight a fight they didn't give a crap about at the time.

RBG did not put us in this position. Point your finger at those who did instead of attacking a dead heroine.

[Dream Girl]

22. I love and appreciate her, but the truth is, the truth.

She should stepped down and she didn’t because she wanted the first female President to replace her. She also felt Obama would replace her with a centrist. Little did she know, Amy coney Barrett was waiting in the wings.

[StarfishSaver]

27. You "love and appreciate her"

but think she was full of hubris and screwed up the country and that you know better than she did what she should have done.

[Dream Girl]

26. She had serious recurrent cancers. She was well in her 80s.

Try to blame others but those are the fact. She should have stepped down.

[StarfishSaver]

30. "Try to blame others"

Yes. I blame people for creating circumstances that led us to where we are and think it's ridiculous for anyone to try to shift the blame onto one woman - especially when they're basing that blame on assumptions of what could have should have been when they have no idea how things would have actually played out in the alternate reality they are spinning.

[StarfishSaver]

40. Wrong

Last edited Sun Sep 5, 2021, 12:48 PM - Edit history (4)

RBG was diagnosed and treated for colon cancer in 1999 and was in remission the rest of life.

She was next diagnosed with early stage pancreatic cancer in 2008, was successfully treated and remained cancer-free until 2018 when the cancer recurred.

She was also not "Well into her 80s" at the time. She was only 79 in 2012.

While hindsight is always a wonderful thing in fantasy land, let's look at the reality. Those who are decrying the fact that RBG did not retire and allow Obama to pick a replacement must limit the years for such a scenario to be operative to 2012-2014 when Obama was president and had a Democratic Senate.

In those years RBG had been in remission for nearly 15 years, was in her late 70s and early 80s, and was perfectly vibrant and healthy - In fact she was probably in better shape than most people her age (check out her workout video). It is ridiculous for anyone to insist that she should have stepped down under those circumstances.

[Demsrule86]

21. I know...we all believe to some degree we can live forever...I hope Breyer realizes the peril

he is placing our Republic in every day that he doesn't retire.

[StarfishSaver]

16. If her work is undone

It will be because too many Democrats were too selfish and arrogant to fight as hard as she did. This is not RBG's fault.

[Dream Girl]

29. If she had stepped down, we wouldn't have this mess.

The truth hurts.

[StarfishSaver]

32. You have no idea what would have happened had she stepped down.

You're assuming that things would have played out exactly as you wanted had that one scenario changed, without recognizing that we're living in the real world, not in an alternate reality.

[nycbos]

7. She should have retired in after the 2012 election

[StarfishSaver]

11. Stop it

This "she shoulda" crap is ridiculous.

[nycbos]

25. Why?

She had multiple health problems and didn't retire with a Democratic president and a Democratic Senate?

Bryer is now doing the same thing.

[Dream Girl]

33. Because the truth hurts and we'll not allowed to say anything negative about the notorious RBG

Who was supposed to live forever.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Oh, please - you're allowed to say whatever you please

But If you post them on a public discussion board, don't expect your comments to go unchallenged.

[StarfishSaver]

44. Oh, please - you're allowed to say whatever you please

But If you post them on a public discussion board, don't expect your comments to go unchallenged.

[NurseJackie]

34. Of course it's ridiculous. When I see this crap on Twitter (for example)...

... it's typically coming from people who refuse to acknowledge (or accept) the real reasons that we find ourselves in this situation today. I guess it's easier to assign blame on a dead woman, than to accept personal responsibility, isn't it?

[StarfishSaver]

36. Exactly

[StarfishSaver]

38. I'm sorry your thread got hijacked by a bunch of RBG-attackers

Prefacing attacks with "I admired her BUT" doesn't hide the fact that these are indeed full on attacks and completely inappropriate anywhere but especially inappropriate responses to your very positive OP.

I appreciate and agree with your comments about her. Thank you.

[NurseJackie]

39. People who blame a defenseless dead woman for things that are beyond her control...

... are intellectually lazy.

[StarfishSaver]

41. Come on Jackie - This wasn't beyond her control

She was a smart, with it, completely healthy 79-year-old woman in 2012 and should have been able to predict that In 2 years a critical mass of whiny progressive Democratic voters would, in order to "teach Obama a lesson," refuse to vote in the midterms and allow Republicans to take over the Senate, that Mitch McConnell would abuse and break Senate rules to ensure that no Obama nominee to the Supreme Court would be confirmed, that in 2016, a two-bit con man would pair up with Russia to cheat his way into the White House, with a generous assist from the rampant voter suppression the Court would made possible a year later and another critical mass of whiny progressive Democratic voters who refused to vote for the most qualified presidential candidate in history because there was just something about her they didn't like. She should also have predicted that in six years, her perfectly healthy male colleague Anthony Kennedy would retire, opening up a second seat for the con man and that she'd be diagnosed with a different type of cancer that would kill her four months before a Democratic president and Senate took office.

She would have had full control of everything that happened had she just predicted the future correctly.

You know who else has control had they predicted the future? Democratic voters who helped put Trump and Republicans in office, knowing full well that the Court was on the ballot and are now acting surprised that things played out as they did and are trying to blame a dead woman for it all.

[NurseJackie]

42. I know.

She was a smart, with it, completely healthy 79-year-old woman in 2012 and should have been able to predict that In 2 years a critical mass of whiny progressive Democratic voters would, in order to "teach Obama a lesson," refuse to vote in the midterms and allow Republicans to take over the Senate, that Mitch McConnell would abuse and break Senate rules to ensure that no Obama nominee to the Supreme Court would be confirmed, that in 2016, a two-bit con man would pair up with Russia to cheat his way into the White House, with a generous assist from another critical mass of whiny progressive Democratic voters who refused to vote for the most qualified presidential candidate in history because there was just something about her they didn't like. She should also have predicted that in six years, her perfectly healthy male colleague Anthony Kennedy would retire, opening up a second seat for the con man and that she'd be diagnosed with a different type of cancer that would kill her four months before a Democratic president and Senate took office.