General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am sure many here already know this, but for those who don't, a human fetus at 6 weeks of
development---the time beyond which Texas now prohibits abortion---is about the size of a kidney bean and has a little tail making it resemble a tadpole.
Most non-experts would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a human fetus and that of a pig at a similar stage in development.
Of course, that's just scientific fact; not as reliable as, say, the internet research of a Texas legislator.
KT2000
(20,544 posts)what they call a heart beat is actually electrical pulses that start much before the heart is formed.
mopinko
(69,806 posts)in another month, it sorta curls up into the shape we know, and grows valves.
til then, it isnt a heart. no heart valves, no heart beat.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)slightly afterward, when the foramen ovale closes between the left and right ventricles, if I remember pediatric physiology correctly.
mopinko
(69,806 posts)but since it isnt breathing oxygen, it doesnt go to the lungs. so, the chambers are not separate.
the opening between the 2 closes closer to birth. why a lot of preemies need surgery to close the hole.
Bev54
(9,962 posts)are they too, considered murder now?
Hekate
(90,189 posts)
and very expensive they are, too, and difficult to attain.
I know couples whove tried it, and one couple only stopped when after many repeated cycles two things occurred: she finally produced three (3) eggs and they had spent $100,000 in savings. This was about 20 years ago. It was heartbreaking, but they were people of good sense and had set a financial limit.
A couple of decades ago, the fanatics used the unchosen frozen as another way to twist peoples hearts & bypass their brains. Because they are stored in liquid nitrogen, the fanatics started referring to them as Snowflake Babies, isnt that adorable? They encouraged pro-lifers to volunteer to accept any unwanted snowflake babies into their own uteri and raise them as their own. This is neither sensible nor legal, but it makes good propaganda.
Joinfortmill
(14,245 posts)RandomNumbers
(17,537 posts)to save a full grown human, why should a woman be forced to submit to something much more invasive than blood donation, even to "save a life"? (not to mention at 6 weeks, even 12 or later, it is not 100% guaranteed that life will ever be viable as an independent life)
MiniMe
(21,676 posts)I believe that 40 weeks is what the average gestation is, so this zygote is actually -34 weeks from birth
LakeArenal
(28,729 posts)An embryo is the early stage of human development in which organs are critical body structures are formed. An embryo is termed a fetus beginning in the 11th week of pregnancy, which is the 9th week of development after fertilization of the egg. A zygote is a single-celled organism resulting from a fertilized egg.
littlemissmartypants
(22,418 posts)Fetus doesn't equal embryo. A commonly confused distinction. ❤
Bev54
(9,962 posts)Not that "science" matters....
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)iwannaknow
(210 posts)a twelve week fetus resembles that of a chicken. The point is, to state the obvious, a fetus is NOT A HUMAN BEING!!!!!! There. I got that off my chest. AGAIN!!!!!!!
barbtries
(28,702 posts)it's not a fetus at 6 weeks; it's an embryo.
How long does the embryonic stage of pregnancy typically last?
The first two weeks after conception are known as the germinal stage, the third through the eighth week is known as the embryonic period, and the time from the ninth week until birth is known as the fetal period.Jun 1, 2020
Pachamama
(16,874 posts)We need to make sure we use correct language when discussing these laws
Its an embryo at 6 weeks - not a fetus
Jon King
(1,910 posts)ecstatic
(32,566 posts)Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.
https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html
TheRickles
(2,000 posts)Using the term "fetus" is a calculated emotional manipulation. Can you tell the difference between these images of a human and an elephant embryo?
https://edu.glogster.com/glog/embryological-development-in-vertebrates/229268e5lbu?=glogpedia-source
tymorial
(3,433 posts)There is no heart as we understand it. It's an excuse to ban abortion.
This decision and law has caused some horrible feelings and emotions to resurface in my home. My wife needed to terminate 2 pregnancies. One was labeled an abnormal pregnancy because it occurred outside the uterus. It was early enough that a DC wasn't necessary but it still meant ending what we hoped would become our baby. This probably would have occurred under the Texas law but the second one wouldn't and it would have buried us.
My wife and I struggled for years to conceive. I pushed for testing a treatment because we were just not conceiving. My labs were normal, not great but normal. My wife was fine. We were just older, approaching 40. We met late.
Anyway, she became pregnant after the 3rd IUI and everything was fine until we went for the 12 week ultrasound. There were some abnormalities in the images that led the radiologist to believe there was a high degree if probability that our baby would be trisome. We had the tests done and waited for the next ultrasound. The doctor showed us all that was wrong with out boy. His arms were deformed, his abdomen was open and his intestines were out... it was obvious in the ultrasound even to us. We learned he was trisome 18, Edwards. It was devastating. He may not survive the pregnancy. If he was delivered, he would die in the first year and would never leave the hospital. Would he be in pain? Would it be torture? There was no decision to be made. It was right to terminate and save our baby boy from pain.
I have his ultrasound images in a lock box in my office. My wife can't bare to see them. We named him Alex.
My wife's life wasn't at risk. She was in no danger of dying. He wasn't a mistake. We wanted him. But we would have been forced to just wait it out and see what happened. What kind of torture would that have been for us? What if he lived until 6 or 7 months into the pregnancy? My wife delivers our dead child who is terribly deformed? Can you imagine the psychological trauma of that? Would my wife and I survive? He'll, would our 5 year old daughter be here today?
So yeah, thr Texas law is very real for people like us. 1 in 2500 pregnancies. That is the statistic. Some family is going to go through the torture I just outlined and it's totally inhumane.
albacore
(2,387 posts)My son and his wife faced a very similar situation ... trisomy 13.. 26 weeks.
They had our full support and love when they made their decision. They said that there was no real choice.. it had to be terminated for the same reasons you did.
They had named him Samson
The idea that some mentally constipated legislator would intervene AT ALL in that tragedy makes me unreasonably, even violently angry.
How DARE those fucking people even say one word to a couple facing that kind of heartbreak.
I'm glad you had a "rainbow baby" girl. My son and his wife did, too.
https://www.parents.com/baby/what-it-means-to-be-a-rainbow-baby-and-why-rainbow-babies-are-beautiful/
tymorial
(3,433 posts)We gave up by the time our daughter was conceived. We laugh that she is a classic, a total cliché. She was conceived after we gave up all fertility treatments.
We tried for about 2 years on our own after getting married. Our siblings are younger than us by 4 or 5 years but they married their spouses the same year as us in 2010. They became pregnant easily and it really bummed us out. We started fertility treatments and we got pregnant the first time but it was an abnormal pregnancy. We tried another iui and failed. The 3rd IUI ended as I described. Our doctor believed IVF would be successful so we went that route. We had 2 rounds but neither ever resulted in a pregnancy. According to our doctor the hormone levels and sperm count were perfect and it was just timing. There was no reason to not try for a 3rd. We couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't the financial cost. Our state required fertility coverage by insurance. It was the emotional cost and devastation.
Anyway, after the last failed IVF I had to travel for a few weeks. I went to New Orleans for a job, came back for a couple days and then headed off to Pennsylvania. Our cat was very sick and she has been with me for 16 years. I felt awful leaving her and when I came back I knew she held on just for me. Trust me, that cat definitely did. She was my buddy through very hard times before I met my wife.
Anyway, we put her to sleep knowing it was necessary. My wife and I comforted each other and reconnected as a husband and wife in love should...
5 weeks later we found an article about a trio of cats that needed adopting and were all close. They could only be adopted together. We reached out to the agency and we were able to get them. A week later after settling in I realized that my wife had not had her period in some time. I knew that wasn't unusual given the IVF. Sometimes it can take a month or two but this was closer to 3 months. I suggested to her that she might be pregnant. She said no way that is possible but she did a home pregnancy test one morning at work (yes, at work. I know.. it's odd to me too but that's my bride.)
She called me and told me that she was pregnant. I laughed. That was my response. I laughed because if the irony, because we had such a horrible past year, because we just adopted the damned cats as our fur babies. Mainly I laughed because I was so excited and it was the only response.
Our daughter was born a little over 7 months later. She was conceived just after I returned from my last trip. She is 5 now, just entered kindergarten and has a double shot of stubborn pain in the ass attitude from her mother and I.
She really is our miracle baby.
albacore
(2,387 posts)She's a rainbow, though, and that outweighs everything.
I know my granddaughter gets extra love from this old man!
Give your girl a hug from me.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)Some of these same people believe that the standard Pill causes an abortion each month, instead of understanding that the hormones in the medication forestall the release of an egg in the first place.
They listen to their own sources, and close their eyes to any scientific literature (even written for the lay public) that explains the actual facts.
tavernier
(12,322 posts)of the fetus at that stage, but you were almost making it sound like this combination of cells could develop into most anything; a frog or a pig or a donkey. But of course we all know that thats not true. As it grows it will become a human. So to me your argument is not really that strong in favor of pro-choice. I think the emphasis should be on the fact that we should all be able to make decisions for our own bodies as every situation is different. As a nurse Ive heard of women dying because a hospital would not perform abortions in critical situations and transfer of patient caused death to both mother and fetus. There are many situations and many reasons, and those decisions should be up to the woman, often including the advice of her doctor and family. Not strangers wearing black robes who dont even know her name.