Notre Dame v Florida State

[gab13by13]

No this isn't a sports thread. Turn the game on and watch the idiots chanting ho, ho. ho ho ho squeezed against one another, not a mask in the stadium.

I mean Florida is #1, no not in football, in Covid infections and deaths.

I am posting this to emphasize the importance of the narrative. I try and try to get that message across that the MSM pushes right winged narratives. Every freaking announcer, every analyst, every side line reporter pushes the same narrative, "isn't it great to have thousands of fans back in the stands spreading Covid infections throughout the stadium." Well they leave out the spreading infection part. Ho, Ho, Ho Ho Ho.

Someone told me to read "Stranger in a Strange Land" so I am going to bed and read some more of it. I heard that Texas or other states banned the book. No, don't tell me why I will get to it.

[OAITW r.2.0]

1. I admit to having it on, but it's background noise.

All I can say, is Good Fucking Luck, USA! When the supposed "smart" folks can't realize the risk of super-spreader events...how do we expect Trump voters to figure it out?

[former9thward]

2. Its outside.

Just like all the baseball games that have been played this summer with millions in attendance. How come no super spreader from those?

[Skittles]

7. how do they know

are they doing contact followup on everyone there?

[LisaL]

10. Of course they don't.

NT

[former9thward]

29. How does anyone know anything is a super spreader?

Who did the contact tracing? Or do only accept those?

[Skittles]

50. apparently everyone who thinks games are more important than pandemics

ya know?

[LanternWaste]

66. Still having difficulties with simple probabilities and statistics, eh?

[Tommymac]

18. Give some stats and facts or stop pushing this meme as a fact; it's just an opinion otherwise.

I've seen it posted on many threads, however there are no scientific studies that I have read or that imo are reliable (including the one from that Brexit country) and fact based about these large sports crowds for either result - no spreader or super spreader.

Outdoors is safer if social distancing is practiced, but I question whether rabid infected fans screaming and spitting all over those around them at a sporting event are not in fact spreading the virus to some extent. And if 100 or 200 are directly infected from that sputum, that will eventually geometrically multiply into several hundred if not thousands exposed and infected.

If you have a valid study please post. TIA.

[former9thward]

27. You are not going to accept anything I post.

The fact that you say people attending are "rabid infected fans" shows how you think of these events. If these events spread Covid how come they are being allowed? They are being played in blue states and blue cities. How come President Biden has said nothing if they spread? How come no criticism from Dr. Fauci if they spread covid? He has not been shy about that it the past. Is everyone part of some conspiracy?

[Tomconroy]

34. Well, it wasn't a study exactly, but in the spring the Brits began allowing

'test' outdoor events of smaller, then larger crowds. All kinds of events. Their contact tracing system over there is much more sophisticated than ours. The events went off without a hitch and they decided to open up outdoor events. So there is that.

[WA-03 Democrat]

38. Here's a couple from the UK

Called by HMS a “Euro 2020 final at Wembley was a "superspreader" event” in Mid August.

67k attended 3-5k infected reported 2 weeks ago. Delta variant. Better vax rate than any southern US state. Event required vaccine to get in.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/soccer-euro-2020-final-wembley-was-superspreader-event-times-2021-08-20/

There are a couple other events that they have cited in the article. The more “outdoors space” like the British F1 race this summer had 300k+ in attendance but it very large race track had only 500 attributed cases.

The US does not do contract tracing to have the data. We don’t because these games were planned months ago and COVID is a personal choice and not a pandemic.



My the odds be forever in your favor!

[Tomconroy]

42. I read about the euro thing. Some suggested that going to pubs before and after and very crowded

Underground cars may have played a roll.
There was also a five day music festival outbreak. But it was ,53000 people who camped out for five days and nights, many in enclosed tents Vax wasn't required and many young Brits aren't vaxed. Sanitation was quite dodgy. I would have taken a pass on that one.

[Ace Rothstein]

54. The Euro final was a mess.

10's of thousands forced their way into the stadium. They were only supposed to be at 67k spectators but every seat was full and people were sitting on stairs due to the people who forces their way in. Stadium ended up being well over capacity.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. So was the Boardmasters festival, but it's reckoned a superspreader event

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58309660

They needed to be vaccinated, or have a recent negative test, for entry: https://www.boardmasters.com/info/boardmasters-covid-19-policy-requirements

It's not just the event itself, either; it's also the congregating at bars and so on that's associated with big events like these.

[underpants]

3. Can't turn it on. Watching Walking Dead with my wife

She said “no talking”
She’s been talking
I post this only because we have tomorrow off, I’m teleworking on Tuesday, no one will know I’m missing until at least Wednesday.

The dog...the dog will know.

[VarryOn]

4. I was in a crowd of 80,000+ outside eight days ago....

In Florida. My wife and I are vaxxed. We're fine.

ND vs FSU has been a good game so far. I don't like either. I'm glad fans are there, though.

We're going to an SEC game this weekend with about 70k, and we're not worried. We're vaxxed.

Get vaxxed and carry on!

[Lochloosa]

6. Fear The Spear.

😎

[LisaL]

9. You vastly overestimate the effectiveness of the vaccines,

if you think it's going to protect you from infection when you are surrounded by thousands of people.

[DemTaker]

12. So why are we promoting the vaccine then?

I heard all Spring that if you want your life to go back to normal, get the vaccine. We got it and were are going back to normal. If the vaccine is as useless as you say, then why continue to promote it?

I am going to the PSU game this Saturday and next and will be in a huge crowd, I am vaxxed. I am going to enjoy myself.

[Jim G.]

14. LOL!

Nice try!

[BumRushDaShow]

15. "I am going to the PSU game this Saturday"

Meanwhile, PA reported 3,438 COVID cases this past Friday and they are NOT coming out of Philly. You still have dumbasases in the state who are not vaccinated and Delta produces a much higher viral load than previous variants.

Last year, Penn State was one of the biggest infection-spreaders in the state and skews Centre County's figures.

[DemTaker]

17. Sorry..

I refuse to live in my basement the rest of my life..

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Nice hyperbole you got going there

[DemTaker]

20. PSU is a super spreader, even tho..

They haven't played a home game with fans since 2019.. Good to know and what % of PA cases have died?

Like others have said, we need to learn how to live with this. If you want to stay home and worry about something you have no control over, that is your right.

[BumRushDaShow]

23. The problem with Penn State

which is the same across nearly all large universities, is this -

Your selfishness regarding those who are under 12 (or who are immuno-compromised) and who CAN'T be vaccinated tells me all I need to know.

[DemTaker]

26. How many of them died?

Had symptoms?
Were put on Ventilators?

Quit this fear mongering that everyone at the games will get sick, that is not true at all and is total BS.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. Here's the state dashboard

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx

Have at it!

[DemTaker]

30. Sorry..

I am vaxxed, will get the booster, and will enjoy life.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. Enjoy!

But stay away from the vulnerable. However methinks that is too much to ask because there is no concern for others.

And unless you are immuno-compromised, you can't get a booster because it is not yet approved for the general population.

[Jim G.]

24. It Could Be Under Control

Except for all the selfish inconsiderate people feeding it.

[Demsrule86]

56. Learn to live either it? That is what some say

here in Ohio…die with it is more likely.

[VarryOn]

43. I know, right? If you're vaxxed, carry on...

Polls show the most fearful people are the ones most protected (overwhelmingly vaccinated). I'm just not worried. I am prudent about where I am, but I don't shut myself in my house. I've been to four supposed "super-spreader" events--all outdoors--and been fine. And none were "super-spreaders".

In a week or so, we'll know if college or NFL games spread the virus in a significant way. If so, I'll rethink things. Lollapalooza, tons of MLB games, NASCAR at Indy, Detroit, Daytona, etc and Sturgis didn't super spread.

Get vaxxed, be prudent, mask when necessary, and carry on! We have to learn to live with this virus. Not vaxxing is foolish, especially of you're old or fat.

[ecstatic]

83. lol! I like your attitude and I hope you're right!

My deadline to move on with life is January 1, 2022.

[VarryOn]

84. Thanks! Carry on!

We are in good shape!

[VarryOn]

16. No. I believe everyone will eventually get Covid...

And my odds as being vaxxed are pretty good when I do get it.

We just need to get used to living with it being around.

And I'm not trying to be a smart-ass about it. I just genuinely believe in the vaccine.

[uponit7771]

25. They weren't meant to be 100% effective against infection

[greenjar_01]

39. Some of these people think they're going to win elections being the Party of Never Leave your House

It's truly incredible how they twist everything into catastrophe.

[Brother Buzz]

5. I can't watch college football when the two best teams in baseball are playing and...

tied for first place.

My Giants are ahead in the seventh, 6-2!

Just so you know, there are a lot of masks in the stands, but this is California.

[MLAA]

8. I saw one couple wearing masks 😷

That’s 2 of 79,000

[Hoyt]

11. Don't know the percentage, but bet lots of unmasked Democrats are there too, hopefully vaxed.

[a kennedy]

13. I know not a lot of you won't care either that the QB for Notre Dame was at Wisconsin last year

and they recruited a new kid, so Coan Left and went to Norte Dame. Wisconsin lost their game yesterday, and the highly recruited QB just stunk up the joint. I’m sick to death. AND I KNOW SPORTS DOESN’T MEAN SHIT, and all the fans at the Badger game didn’t wear masks either. I JUST WANT EVERYTHING TO BE NORMAL AGAIN. and I’m sorry, sports for me keep me normal, but damn I wish they’d wear the damn masks. 😡 😡

[Ferrets are Cool]

21. Actually I did see ONE. Yes ONE

In all that mass of ignorant/dumbass humanity, there was ONE mask.

[DemTaker]

22. But But

They may be vaxxed. aren't a lot of them Gen-Z?

[jcgoldie]

32. people are rarely catching the virus outside.

Thats one thing we have learned over a year and a half.

This is literally plucked from CDC guidelines:

You are less likely to be exposed to COVID-19 when you

Attend outdoor activities

[LisaL]

35. Less likely doesn't mean impossible.

And what is "less likely" when 100,000 of people are packed together like sardines?

[BumRushDaShow]

36. Outside is definitely much better than crowded indoors

However Delta changed the game.

As this year's Sturgis event has shown, once again being a super-spreader - https://www.thedailybeast.com/sturgis-rally-is-what-a-vaccine-era-coronavirus-superspreader-event-looks-like vs Lollapalooza (that had strict requirements of either proof of vaccination or negative tests prior to event entry like we have going on right here in Philly with the "Made in America" concert that went on this weekend), you minimize that spread with common sense controls.

[Tomconroy]

40. I had a bit of a discussion with one of our really knowledgeable scientific members a while

Back. I think it was on a thread about the Minnesota State Fair. He had a theory that it was the arena seating, one row above the other that made sporting events safe. You weren't in each others faces. He thought fairs and outdoor concerts were bad. But implicitly he seemed to agree that something would have shown up in the covid numbers from all those baseball games. At least I hope I'm not misrepresenting what he said. Maybe he's right in his theory. I don't know.

[BumRushDaShow]

49. That convo was with me

and me is a she!

The (pro-style/large) stadiums that actually have seats (vs bleachers/benches) sortof introduce some space between people and the aisle separation introduce distancing as well -



(benches would allow smashing more people closer together and don't have the same amount of row separation)



But what probably helps more is the elevation of each row so whether seated or standing, in general people aren't breathing right into the back of the head of the person in front of them.

What might be more concerning are the box/suite seats that some facilities have for "VIPs" (and those who pay extra), that although might allow more opportunity for "social distancing", tend to be "enclosed" and thus essentially "inside", allowing for droplets to pool absent good ventilation -

.

The issue that caused the stipulations for outdoor masking here in Philly had to do with "same level" (standing) large groups - like what you have at outdoor concerts. For example this situation (from our "Made in America" festival this past weekend) -



This was from Saturday (all the reports/pics I've seen so far show WAY less people than in the past) -

That location was literally a couple blocks from the "Vine St. Expressway Canal".

This is the ramp that goes from Eakins Oval on the Ben Franklin Parkway in front of the Art Museum where the main stage was, to I-676 -



where they finally cleared all the water out after this now infamous flooding of the Expressway -

[totodeinhere]

47. I'm not so sure if it is safe to attend a football game .

Due to the more contagious delta variant, health experts mostly advise fans to stay home. But if they go, they should take precautions.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/stadiums-safe-covid-19-delta-transmission/

[Stallion]

33. Will This Be the Monte Stratton Story of College Football?

Mckenzie Milton who was a Heisman Trophy candidate at UCF 2 years ago until he suffered a horrendous leg injury-they didn't think he would walk/run again because of nerve damage. Transferred to Florida St. and entered game against ND with about 10 minutes left after FSU starters helmet came off-mandatory 1 play to the sideline. Milton has brought FSU back and they are going to Overtime. I don't think he's thrown an incompletion.

A great story about a great kid

[Elwood P Dowd]

37. Notre Dame won in OT. FSU kicker missed, and ND kicker made his. Final 41-38. (nt)

[Tomconroy]

41. Love your DU name!

[Elwood P Dowd]

44. Thank you.

When I joined DU almost 18 years ago, the first couple of names I came up with were taken. I had some old VCR tapes setting on my desk, including some Jimmy Stewart ones, so I thought surely nobody is using Jimmy's character Elwood P Dowd from the movie "Harvey".

[Tomconroy]

45. Don't call me at that number. Call me at this number.

[Elwood P Dowd]

48. I've been wrestling with reality for years, and I finally won out over it.

Or something like that. Been too long since I've watched "Harvey". Another goofy old comedy of his I liked was "You Can't Take It With You".

[totodeinhere]

46. I don't understand people who apparently think that a football game is more important than

public health.

[Skittles]

51. fucking selfish assholes are EVERYWHERE

*INDEED*

[BumRushDaShow]

58. Still "black and white" and no shades of gray, eh?

And the vaccines weren't around "18 months" ago and neither was Delta.

[totodeinhere]

59. No, I support common sense health measures and I trust our health care professionals to chart

the way forward out of this pandemic. I am a football fan myself and I would like nothing better than to see a packed stadium cheering my team on. But to get there we need to do it the right way, and with more Covid cases nationally than any time since the pandemic started now is not the time.

[Skittles]

61. the pandemic would be OVER now if people did the right thing

but they will NOT so Covid will ALWAYS be with us

[totodeinhere]

63. I did not say that I think that will happen.

What I said was I support it happening.

[Skittles]

62. *you're*

going out is one thing - standing in a crowd of thousands while screaming is ENTIRELY another

[AZProgressive]

55. I wear a mask to the games

I bought the tickets 2 years ago before the pandemic so not much choice but to use the tickets and wear a mask. I’m also fully vaccinated.

[Elessar Zappa]

57. You'll likely be ok.

If your masked, vaxxed, and outdoors, your chances of contracting the virus is extremely low.

[totodeinhere]

60. Getting fully vaccinated and wearing a mask is the right thing to do of course.

But looking at photos of the crowds at some of those games I saw very few wearing masks. It is good of you to do the right thing but I am afraid that some of the recent games will turn out to be super spreader events anyway. And that's a real same because many hospitals are out of capacity already.

[Tribetime]

64. Covid rates 4 times higher than last year Labor Day

Nothing to see here let's open everything up

[leftstreet]

67. lol "DU people"

Why does that sound vaguely insulting

[BumRushDaShow]

75. Well...

[Drunken Irishman]

68. But are deaths 4x higher?

I am guessing not - even though they are likely higher due to more active cases.

The fact is, we can't remain shut down forever. It's just not possible. The best solution remains getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and socially distancing when possible. If people would get vaccinated, that total dead would drop significantly and while cases would be high, the outcome of those cases wouldn't be as devastating.

[LisaL]

71. Deaths are 2x higher now than during the same week last year.

We had 1,500 die on average this last week.

[Drunken Irishman]

73. So 2x higher despite the fact cases are 4x higher.

That's good and a number we can lower just as long as more people get vaccinated!

[LisaL]

74. Our deaths weren't exactly low last year.

And now they are higher than during the same period last year. How is that a good thing?

[Drunken Irishman]

77. You just said deaths are 2x last year's total despite cases being 4x higher.

That means, despite more cases, fewer people are dying overall.

Of course more people infected means the possibility of more deaths but the amount dying is still fewer than the comparable total of positive cases.

If we're 4x more infected at this point compared to last year, it's better that deaths aren't also 4x higher. It means fewer are dying in terms of total people being infected.

Ideally, we'd get that number to zero. But that isn't going to happen...no more than we've ever gotten the flu deaths to zero. The best thing we can do is continue to keep deaths dramatically lower than active cases because it's likely we're going to see more positive cases.

[LisaL]

78. No, it means twice as many people have died this last week compared to

the same period last year.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. With 4x more active cases than last year.

[LisaL]

81. Doesn't matter how many more cases, more people have died this year during the past week.

So what's going to happen during winter? We seem to have thrown any caution into the wind.
100,000 assembling and screaming for a football game?
Our hospitals are already full. So they better not need medical care requiring hospitalization.

[Drunken Irishman]

82. It absolutely matters.

The more people who get vaccinated, the more that gap widens. But the more people expose themselves to COVID, the more people are going to die. I am just surprised you are surprised by this. Last year, everything was closed down - stadiums played in front of no fans, concerts were canceled, movies theaters closed, school was almost entirely virtual. But that is not sustainable. Unfortunately, we just can't lock everyone in their homes and hope to beat this virus that way. So, as we begin to open up, cases are going to rise and yes, sadly, that means more people are probably going to die as more and more people return to a semi-normal world.

What needs to happen is that we need to continue pushing vaccinations. Eventually, we'll hit a point where deaths are even smaller than the total active cases we see right now. The fact is, if we had the same amount of active cases last year as we do today, we're probably looking at 2x more dead than we are currently.

But this is the reality. People do not have the luxury of just surrendering themselves to home and never leaving it or interacting with people or going to movies, concerts or sporting events. It sucks there are people who continue to refuse to get vaccinated but they're generally the ones dying, so, hopefully it'll be a wake up call to get vaccinated for many.

Until then, though, as a vaccinated person, I'll go out and watch my favorite football team or listen to my favorite band. Ideally, these events would be for vaccinated only, or prove you tested negative within like a 48 hour period. But that isn't happening in my state and so, I guess I don't know what you or the OP want me to do about all this. I think we should totally prioritize care in the ICU units based on vaccination status. But that's not my say.

[BumRushDaShow]

72. "The fact is, we can't remain shut down forever."

Except for a few hundred schools in various states that sported a number of COVID-19 infections in their unmasked and unvaccinated corridors, forcing them to go virtual for some set time period, as far as I know, little is "shut down".

Stores and businesses and restaurants are open, sports are still going on, some large concerts had their event-handlers decide not to bother but others have gone ahead.

From what was recently reported - the latest Marvel Comics film - "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings" had a record-breaking opening this past weekend - https://www.npr.org/2021/09/06/1034594239/marvels-shang-chi-smashes-labor-day-box-office-records-with-71-4-million-debut

Point being that at least in areas with high vaccination rates, even with rising cases, they are not yet overwhelming the hospitals like they did last year. That sad honor goes to the unvaccinated red states, particularly in their rural areas that neither have the facilities nor the staff to handle the sick.

And note that deaths ALWAYS lag the case counts. So eventually the deaths will come. Particularly among the younger demographics and children, many of the latter being ineligible to get vaccinated, which is the saddest thing of all.

The main issue I have is the framing of this as an "all or nothing" approach rather than just agreeing to agree on going with common sense precautions.

[Drunken Irishman]

76. What's common sense precautions for sports?

I'm skeptical that approach is to force leagues again to play in empty arenas and stadiums.

What needs to be done is that unvaccinated COVID patients are set as a lower priority for ICU beds. I've taken every precaution asked of me over the last year.

I finally went out and enjoyed a concert on Wednesday. I masked up, have my vaccine and enjoyed it... even though it was jam-packed.

[BumRushDaShow]

79. You just posted what I was talking about that is "common sense"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15829069

It's a similar type of situation that can happen with large sporting events as I posted up-thread - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15826284

where depending on how the concert or sports event is configured, you might have a better mitigation due to the style of seating arrangements in large outdoor stadiums vs events where you are are "standing around" crowded against a stage, unmasked, unvaccinated, and not knowing who might have some infection.

[Tribetime]

85. I agree 100%

[Drunken Irishman]

69. I went to an outdoor concert on Wednesday.

It was jampacked. Like, you could barely move. I wore a mask the whole time.

So far, I feel okay. But I'm vaccinated.

I've come to the point where it's either lock myself in my house or get out there and live my life by taking the precautions needed to keep me as safe as possible: I wear a mask. I socially distance when possible and I am 100% vaccinated.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

70. It's a damn shame America can't put this level of dedication, energy, enthusiasm, media....

and money toward the stopping of a global pandemic, reduction of gun violence and slowing of climate change.


KY.........

[Rhiannon12866]

86. I believe I read that when I was in high school in the '70s

And I agree with you, what's the difference with a crowded sporting event and a TFG rally? They both can be super spreader events if no one is wearing masks or maintaining distancing - though I'd guess that more folks at the sporting event are vaccinated.

[retread]

87. They start with a cosplaying white boy wearing red face makeup and riding a pinto to the 50

yard line where he thrusts a burning "spear" into the turf.

You expect rational behavior to follow?

[BannonsLiver]

88. This thread has it all.