How "Centrism" started... how it's going

[bigtree]

how it started:




how it's going:

[msongs]

1. saboteurs control the senate nt

[bigtree]

2. .

[iemanja]

3. How is Manchin a centrist?

He's pretty obviously a right-winger to me. Why buy into the rhetoric that he and Sinema are "moderates"?

[bigtree]

4. I usually say 'self-identified'

...obviously not buying it.

No harm here judging manchin by his self-identified philosophy. The point in posting his editorial is his insistence that the 'For the People Act' be bipartisan, or have republican support for him to vote for it.

However,

"...not only did Manchin support the For The People Act in 2019, he was a co-sponsor of the legislation that he’s now against. And to make matters worse, the only explanation the senator has given for his change of heart is the lack of bipartisan support for the bill. But, the need for agreement from across the aisle in 2019 didn’t seem to matter to Manchin then because, like today, not a single Republican senator backed the bill either time."
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/949/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded

[iemanja]

5. I get your post is a comment on the How the revolution started OP

but I don't think the points are comparable. Most self-identified progressives assail mainstream Democrats as centrists. People like Manchin are on the fringe. I think the answer to how centrism is going is more likely to be a picture of Joe Biden. And I would say it's not going too badly.

[bigtree]

9. I don't think self-identified centrists in Congress are aligned politically with Pres. Biden

...who has adopted an unmistakably progressive agenda of which important planks are being resisted by self-identified moderates in the Senate.

That's the reality, whatever you label Biden as.

[iemanja]

10. If you think back to the primary

Biden was considered a centrist.

[bigtree]

12. the centrist movement in Congress

...'blue dogs' have been the sticking point to several Biden initiatives which are decidedly progressive.

In fact, in the election, Joe Biden (and Hillary Clinton in her campaign) adopted most planks of the progressive agenda, mainstreamed them, and coopted Sanders' appeal. That's why some people strain to identify issues outside of that sphere of support as 'far left.'

It's also why it's so unseemly for Senate centrists (who tout Dem bipartisanship over party line votes) to stand in their opposition to voting rights legislation, and other Biden initiatives supported by the vast majority of the party.

Pres. Biden has stepped outside of that trap and decided that insisting on bipartisanship ( the centrist mantra) is sometimes just an excuse for inaction.

[iemanja]

14. I don't disagree with that

but I can tell you all of the people who have been calling me centrist for supporting Hillary over their favorite pol weren't thinking of Manchin and Sinema. Again, I don't think your parallel with the other post works.

[bigtree]

15. you mean the one blaming Sanders voters for losing that election

...when it was red state moderates who gave Trump the benefit of the doubt and voted for Trump?

People selling that nonsense that Sanders voters sat out the election ignore the record popular vote and the slim margins in red states where decidedly conservative moderates and independents (not Sanders voters) held sway.

How does one record votes that weren't cast and attribute them to Sanders?

My analogy is infinitely more defensible.

[iemanja]

16. I don't blame Sanders voters

I blame Stein and Trump voters. Anyone who didn't vote for Clinton owns the Trump administration.

But see there, you've shown your definition of centrist doesn't hold.

[bigtree]

17. again, self-identified centrists in Congress and the Senate are not politically aligned with Biden

...and his agenda isn't exactly bending toward them.

Biden's presidency is a progressive one, through and through. So was his campaign, no matter what someone labeled him in the election.

[brooklynite]

6. Funny how American voters decided to vote for a Centrist in 2020....

…and a Centrist in 2008…
…and a Centrist in 1992.

[FoxNewsSucks]

7. What was the alternative?

They also voted for one in 2016, but it was stolen from her.

[brooklynite]

8. I recall each one of them had progressive primary opposition.

[FoxNewsSucks]

11. That's been discussed ad nauseum here.

The way some of those primaries were handled isn't something to be proud of, much less smug about as some are. It is extremely grating to those who supported the progressive, saw some of the "sausage being made" and still voted D because the republicons were total scum.

[brooklynite]

13. I see: people WANTED to vote for progressives but somehow "couldn't"

ONe of the lessons I learned staring out at a Party officials was: you win some races; you lose some races. You accept the losses and move on to the next ones.

[Sympthsical]

18. Obama wasn't considered a centrist

His main opponent in the primary was Hillary Clinton who was considered far, far more friendly to the established order of things.

Throw in that McCain was generally considered a moderate Republican (no idea how), and no one can seriously say we went into that election thinking Obama was some kind of centrist option. His entire campaign was based on changing things up.

What an odd assertion.

[Bettie]

19. Obama ran on Change and Hope

he did not run as a status quo candidate. He did not run as a "centrist".

Generally, 'centrists' tend to want the status quo. No rocking the boat, few changes beyond a few tweaks to make things seem more palatable without actually changing much at all.

[Celerity]

21. +1

[Celerity]

20. +1

[brooklynite]

22. Obama had multiple candidates on his left...

…and Clinton didn’t campaign to his right; Shane campaigned as more experienced and “ready”.

A reminder that Obama COULD have campaigned on SIngle Payer or Marriage Equality or other progressive demands, and chose not to.

[Sympthsical]

23. None of whom had much traction at all

They were all fringe outside of Edwards. You're not seriously arguing we count Kucinich with any viability, are you? And Edwards never got close to Obama. He was all name recognition and hair spray. Furthermore, he was completely out of the race by January.

From that point forward, it was Clinton as the Establishment choice and Obama as the outsider. Obama was charismatic enough and his campaign disciplined enough to overtake the heavy favorite. It was quite an accomplishment.

To try to retrofit him as some kind of centrist is truly baffling. He certainly governed more moderately once in office, but he did not campaign that way.

You're setting up a strange straw man dichotomy here. "Well, he wasn't a galloping Leftist, so he must've been a Centrist!"

Not how that one works. Certainly not when your opponent was Hillary Clinton who was considered as status quo as it got.

[brooklynite]

24. Precisely...

People had a choice in each election and chose the mainstream centrist.

[leftstreet]

25. +1