A generation of American men give up on college

[Ex Lurker]

Females outpace males in college enrollment 60-40 now.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-education-men-women-enrollment-admissions-back-to-school-11630948233?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/4ixbAL8kWN

[Calculating]

1. Considering we need more people in the trades this could be good

Too many people are going to college when we really need more plumbers, electricians and handymen.

[Ex Lurker]

2. If that's where they're going it would be good.

a lot of them seem to be more interested in video games than anything else. That's my admittedly anecdotal take.

[Demsrule86]

4. People say that but it is not really true...Manufacturing created many trade jobs and without

an improvement in the numbers, the jobs won't be there... GM, Ford ETC all shut down due to chips issues. It is particularly dire now.

[Elessar Zappa]

8. There is a shortage of plumbers.

Not sure about the other trades.

[Chainfire]

36. Plumbing is hard work, that may be the problem.

From a retired plumber...

[Ex Lurker]

40. So my nephew went to college for a year

did mediocre, decided to take a break, got a job in a grocery store. Lasted about 8 months, before he got fired for chronic lateness and stupid stuff like not wearing the company-supplied shirt. (and he was one of the better ones! lasted longer than most). He starts community college this fall in some kind of IT field but I don't see that he has any more motivation than he did the first time around. I sure can't see him doing something physically and mentally demanding like plumber. Seems to be a theme with lots of his friends too. The only thing they're interested in are video games, which in my view are a hidden plague on society.

[JI7]

44. Did he spend his childhood years playing video games more than playing outside ?

[Ex Lurker]

46. His mom (my relative) tried to restrict that as much as possible

unfortunately her ex didn't see any problem with letting him have free reign with screen time.

[Luciferous]

43. It depends what type of manufacturing you do. My husband is in manufacturing and they are busy

and are always looking for workers. The problem with automakers is because of supply issues due to covid, not because there just aren't jobs in general. My brother works for Toyota and they are working 6 days a week.

[Wingus Dingus]

5. Aren't trades requiring diplomas of some sort though?

[carpetbagger]

19. Not a college degree.

Since plumbing is the example, you don't go to college, take English 101, math, and basic undergrad classes in humanities and sciences, then take 18 credits of plumbing. The classes are all about plumbing, and the apprentice work is not organized as a.college externship. Yeah there's math and physics of some complexity, but not formal equivalents like physics 101 or intermediate math college courses (the precalculus prep courses, for example).

[Wingus Dingus]

20. I guess I still see that as "college" of some sort.

Meaning you don't just leave high school and start a job somewhere. It's much less alarming if in fact these young guys are preferring to attend some sort of post-high school education and training for trades, but I can't actually read the full article.

[carpetbagger]

32. I do too, but...

It doesn't get captured in these numbers. The other thing is that I've never seen anything good come out of encouraging marginal, young students to go to the local community college and take a few classes as a way of finding the good careers. It shuts off a whole universe of realistic trade careers, they end up at the 7/11.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. No. And you don't have to go to trade school at all; getting on as an apprentice in a union and

getting paid OJT is better than paying to be taught.

[Iris]

29. They do. The technical college system in my state requires

basic college level courses in Eng, history, government, math and science. You can get a diplomas with fewer credits in those areas or complete the whole Gen Ed series and earn an associates degree which would allow you to attend a 4 year program down the road if you chose to do so.

[Wingus Dingus]

31. I know it's probably different in every state, as far as requirements go--

I don't have a problem with decreased four-year enrollment if the trend is to seek technical or trade education. One of my kids has a technical associates degree.

[Iris]

41. Exactly

[madville]

10. Trades are a great option

I work at a power plant, we have operators, electricians, machinists, etc. Average journeyman salary was over 100k last year with OT. Salary ranges are $32-56 an hour in a rural area.

My 24 year old son is an industrial electrician making $38 an hour working 48 hours a week at a manufacturing plant, he went to technical school for about 18 months.

I would only go to college if I had a specific career/vocation in mind like being an engineer, nurse, doctor, teacher, etc. Not to just go because that’s what we’ve been told successful people have to do for decades.

[Wingus Dingus]

3. Even two year/community colleges? What do these young men

think is going to happen for them in life?

[Demsrule86]

7. Some will go later in life.

But I have to say...requiring degrees for some jobs is just stupid. I saw an ad for a fairly low-level office worker and the pay range was not great and they required a college degree...ridiculous.

[madville]

14. It's like the State jobs in my area

Paying $30k a year and requiring a bachelors degree, they are always hiring, hundreds of openings at the state complex near me at any given moment.

[Wingus Dingus]

17. I'm not saying everyone needs college but post high school training for a diploma

in something would be beneficial. People keep saying "trades" as if they require no further education at all--but they often do require some school, even if only for a year.

[MichMan]

9. Hoping for UBI ?

[Wingus Dingus]

16. Ha, my two adult millennial sons are secretly hoping for it too.

But they both have degrees just in case lol.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

6. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing

I think over the last 30 years kids felt compelled to go to college because that’s what they were supposed to do…and at the same time people stopped going to trade schools….so what happened were too many people with college degrees competing for white collar jobs (that didn’t pay as well as they thought), and we have a shortage of competent plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, etc (and those jobs sometimes pay better than those white collar office jobs, and at the same time you can end up owning your own business)

[Wounded Bear]

11. Yeah, they've been over-selling the need for college for many years...

For many, the major benefit of college is the personal connections made, not the knowledge dished out.

[MichMan]

13. People have been looking down on those jobs for decades in favor of office paperwork jobs

Building trades, auto technicians, & manufacturing jobs were all thought of as undesirable occupations for young people.

Of course when people need their A/C repaired, or their SUV fixed, they gripe at why it cost so much even though they are incapable of fixing it themselves.

I worked in manufacturing my entire life & can't count the number of times I have heard people looking for jobs sneer with disgust " I will not work at a factory!"

[Luciferous]

42. Yep, my husband started working as a machinist years ago and got so much crap

from his family because he didn't go to college like his siblings. He makes more money than either of them, and has no student loan debt.

[Klaralven]

12. There has been very little change in over the last decade

In fall 2019, female students made up 57 percent of total undergraduate enrollment (9.4 million students), and male students made up 43 percent (7.1 million students). Enrollment patterns for female and male students exhibited similar trends between 2009 and 2019. During this period, female and male enrollments both decreased by 5 percent (from 9.9 million to 9.4 million female students and from 7.6 million to 7.1 million male students).

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cha

See Figure 1. Undergraduate enrollment in degree-granting postsecondary institutions, by sex: Fall 2009 through fall 2019

Lots of females are employed in education and health occupations that require college credentials.

[treestar]

15. 40% is not giving up entirely

seeing all the outsourcing and given the current price, I wouldn't go unless I had rich parents. I'd train for a specific not oursource-able job, like plumbing, carpentry, electrician, nursing. Men are still more likely to do construction than women, but I'd do it as a woman now.

[Wingus Dingus]

18. OK, maybe it's because I can't get past paywall, but aren't

many trades now requiring at least some technical education or community college? Is the article ONLY talking about associate and bachelor's degrees, or all post-secondary training or education?

[Irish_Dem]

21. An educated citizenry is a cornerstone of a successful democracy.

We can already see the deadly consequences when people are ignorant, with no basic understanding of science or government.

[MichMan]

23. I see a lot of ignorance on display from those who are supposedly "educated"

[Irish_Dem]

25. Most of them know better, they are just using propaganda for the ignorant masses.

Most of the GOP leadership are vaccinated and send their kids to masked up elite schools.

[smirkymonkey]

38. +1000

Which is why we need free or very low cost higher education in this country, like what many European countries have. We have already seen what the fruits of anti-intellectualism are in this nation.

Why must education always be about getting a "job" instead of simply expanding one's mind and bettering oneself?

[CrackityJones75]

24. Great!

Now all they need to do is make it illegal for women to go to college or make it unattainable and the dumbing down of America continues.

[Irish_Dem]

26. If women are having babies all the time, they will find it harder to go to college.

[CrackityJones75]

27. my thoughts exactly

[lame54]

37. They're the future lawmakers

[Dawson Leery]

28. Some form of learning beyond high school is needed these days.

[milestogo]

30. Some will have careers in rap music or be drafted by a professional sports team.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

33. The country needs plumbers and electricians for sure, you ever have to find one when you need one?

They make damn good money too, for those with a strong back and knees.

[Kaleva]

35. I ended up on full disability at the age of 52.

And I couldn't work full time for several years prior to that.

[Demovictory9]

45. watched carpet installers at work, talk about needing strong knees!!

[Kaleva]

34. I have 3 brothers who, with no college, just a HS diploma, make 6 figures annually each.

Another brother with an 2 year AS degree, also had a salary in the 6 figures before he passed away.

[Vinca]

39. You don't need college to be successful and learning doesn't start or stop based

on whether or not you go to college. Anyone try to find a plumber lately? They can pretty much name their price and then go home at night and study art history to their heart's content.