Why don't we ("libs", progressives) own the Rs?

[cilla4progress]

Seems like it could be so easy...

[vanlassie]

1. COVID is doing a pretty good job for us.

[Leith]

2. Because they often react with violence

and weird mental acrobatics to justify themselves.

I'm not going to risk harm to myself from a gun humper who claims that Jay-zuzz approves of whatever the nutjob feels like doing.

[JHB]

3. Lack of an extensive, many-layered propaganda system

[HAB911]

4. It takes a lot of energy and time

to be a complete ignorant asshole

ALMOST more energy and time than I have

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

7. Indeed

I've argued with some of these morons. Where I've usually won in the end I felt pretty wore out by their obstinance.

Their own ignorance will eventually get the better of them.

[abqtommy]

5. "Own" has got a very negative pedigree. I don't want to "own" anybody but

I'll continue to support Democracy and Justice.

[Initech]

8. I think they're owning themselves at this point!

[Elessar Zappa]

9. They're perfectly capable

of self-owning, as seen by the number of right wing nut jobs on ventilators.

[ck4829]

10. As in doing stupid things to "own the Republicans"?

Because every time I see “own the libs”, it’s them doing something stupid.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. I don't "own " .I educate harshly.

[Aristus]

12. Because we work for a living, and are too tired at the end of the day to play their stupid games

with them.

We Blue States are constantly propping up the meth-lab infested Red States, and I'm tired of it.

[Elessar Zappa]

14. Meth labs aren't exclusive to red states.

It’s a huge problem here in New Mexico as well as states like California.

[GoCubsGo]

13. No point to it.

Most of them are too stupid/propagandized/ignorant/etc. to understand that they've been "owned." Why waste the effort?

[ShazamIam]

15. Because our pro-billionaire and pro-corporate media owns the noise, they aren't going to allow any

lib idea to own anything but ridicule.

[MineralMan]

16. Because we are too polite.

We tend to let people think whatever they want, even if it's stupid and dangerous. We don't like confrontation, name-calling, and making threats.

In the end, that's what it is. We're too damned nice, overall.

[cilla4progress]

18. I definitely agree with this -

I would go beyond calling us polite. We believe in process, fairness, playing by the rules, listening to all sides.

I wonder if these traditional virtues, though, ought to be leavened with some of what they are bringing to the gunfight...literal.

We need our own Tucker Carlson. Yea, I love the intellectual trills of a Rachel Maddow, the subtle snark of a Brian Williams. But if everyone slows down to see a car wreck.. that is tapping into something visceral and quite powerful within.

[MineralMan]

20. That's exactly what I mean by "polite."

The problem is that, if we lose those standards, we run the risk of being just like the right, and that would negate our basic principles.

That's a by-product of our general world-view. In the face of senseless, thoughtless, maladaptive behavior, we have no way to respond that speaks to the other side. We value the truth. The right values lies, if they promote their goals. We value facts. The right ignores facts or presents untruths as if they were facts, if they promote their goals.

We have honor. the right has none of that at all.

It's a very difficult position if you are looking to gain power over an unruly mob, which is exactly what the right is.

I have no answer for it, frankly, that doesn't diminish us and our values.

[cilla4progress]

23. Dang, MM

Was hoping you had an answer!

Appreciate your thoughtful reply.

I've heard recently that it's an incidence of mass hypnosis, specifically like a cult. A similar tactic is used by fascist dictators. I've been saying it reminds of the mass hysteria we learned about in Psych 101. This seems to make it intractable. Do we wait it out?

Unfortunately the larger looming issue is the climate collapse. So, this crisis goes beyond the mere temporal...eternal.

I also anticipated when the reality of the climate collapse sinks in that some would revert to basically a Dark Ages' thinking: panic, denial, self-preservation central.

Gawd I need a lifeline...

[MineralMan]

29. Shakespeare covered this pretty well.

He had Julius Caesar say, "Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look.
He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."

That is the crux of the problem, I believe. People who think are not as likely to be taken in by ambitious fascist populists. And those nasty leaders know it. They target the non-thinkers, the less-than-bright, and the patently stupid. Those, actually, make up about half of any population of humans, since intelligence is distributed in bell-curve like proportions.

Another common attribute of those people the right-wing targets is being quick to anger and violence. That is also well-known. Since they don't think about things much, they are easily convinced that lies are truths. If the leader blames some scapegoat population, they are eager to focus their anger on that group.

Stupid people don't like smart people who know things and think about stuff. Smart people make great scapegoats. That's why insults like "College Boy," "Smarty Pants" and "Egghead" are so common. Nobody likes a Smart-Ass, either.

It's a dilemma.

[cilla4progress]

32. Well and it's not just the stupid and the easily played.

The "breakers," as Timothy Snyder called them in his epic NY Times piece.

It's also the "gamers" - the McConnell's, Gaetz's, DeSantises, the Kayleigh McEnany's and the Kellyanne Conways.

I hope and think this article is public access.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html

[Elessar Zappa]

19. Sometimes it hurts us.

Many town councils and school boards are being inundated with right wing loudmouths with little to no pushback. So these councils and school boards end up implementing policies to please the nut jobs even if they’re a minority. In my hometown, I was the only one speaking out for enforcing the mask mandate at our schools, while there were dozens there to oppose it. This despite the fact that my town is very blue and the crazies are a minority here.

[MineralMan]

22. It frequently hurts us.

Your example is an excellent one. We know we're right, but we don't insist that others listen to us like the right does. We don't go to such meetings because we dislike conflict, so our point of view goes unheard. We need to do better in that regard, and support our local governing bodies with a steady, visible counterpoint to the angry liars from the right. But, we do not do that, because we don't want to offend anyone.

Our strength is our weakness when it comes to putting our positions forward.

[cilla4progress]

24. Thank you

for your efforts, Elessar! You are a hero!!!!

[Elessar Zappa]

27. No I'm not but thank you for the kind words.

I do try to stay involved locally. I can’t stand the idea of these nut jobs thinking they’re unopposed.

[cilla4progress]

28. No, but to stand up BY YOURSELF

to a group of these MAGATS...heroic. Role model. Thank you.

[Irish_Dem]

17. By the look of the R death rate, they are owning themselves.

We don't have to do anything.

[BlueTsunami2018]

21. There's really no mechanism in place to do so.

You can’t shame people who have no shame. You can’t reason with people who have no reasoning ability.

It doesn’t really work. There’s nothing stupidly performative we can do to shove it in their faces.

Here’s me not being a racist.
Here’s me being inclusive.
Here’s me demanding accountability for injustice. None of that is particularly provocative.

They’re assholes for the sake of being an asshole, mean for the sake of being mean, stupid for stupidity’s sake. It’s hard to match that.

[cilla4progress]

25. Gawd I hope someone

figures this out!

Anyone know how to stop a cult? There must be SOME wisdom, good, successful ideas out there???

We have to try, at least ...

[cilla4progress]

33. Well, it's bascially a bully dynamic.

What takes bullies down?

Seems to me it's often social pressure. Oy.

[haele]

26. Because stupid people and authoritarians double down when challenged

Their thinking is bound to their biases; in effect, they're already owned by their personal fear, hate, and greed.

Anyway, who wants to "own" Stupid? It's exhausting just cleaning up after they throw their tantrums.

Haele

[cilla4progress]

34. Nice.

Agreed.

[lark]

30. We need to take cancel culture to new heights.

We need to advertise loudly their perfidy, we need to tell their bosses and co-workers who they are. Their privacy needs to be invaded and they need to be shut down. They need to be fired and shunned. See if they like it when it's them - spoiler - they will hit the roof and cry because they are nothing but ballless assholes who think they own us and everything there is and that only they are protected by law while they can destroy everyone else with impunity.

[cilla4progress]

35. I so agree.

What are we waiting for???!!!

[NameAlreadyTaken]

31. We can just write a sternly worded email.