Why can't we have a national vaccine mandate?

[milestogo]

Clearly some people would need a medical exception.

Clearly we are never going to get this thing under control without the majority being vaccinated.

There are just too many people who don't give a damn about the elderly or other vulnerable people. That's who needs to be protected.

[leftstreet]

1. Maybe start with a national mask mandate

Since the CDC fucked us all over in May, States and private companies are left having to piece together mask requirements by location

[madville]

18. Who enforces it and what is the penalty?

Seems like such a thing would be mostly symbolic.

[leftstreet]

22. Initially it was pretty voluntary

When the pandemic started the CDC mask guideline was fairly well received - individuals, retailers, employers

The minute they dropped it in May, those same individuals, retailers and employers followed their lead

[hlthe2b]

2. The Biden lawyers don't believe he has the legal authority to do so.

Think about it. Every Federal mandate (speed limits, seatbelts, various standards...) has all been a carrot and stick approach based on Federal funding or withholding so that the states would enact the mandates themselves. And COVID-19 doesn't exactly allow for a "surgical" withholding of funds to a state, given how many it would hurt, even while it might send a message to their elected officals.

The constitution makes amply clear that those powers not expressly designated for the Executive Branch, Legislative or Judicial are left to the states. And that is the case here...

So, it seems that is their conclusion... They can do so around the margins, however, and that is why federally-regulated agencies, the military, and transportation are mandated around such policies.

[madville]

12. Withhold all federal funds from people until they show proof

SNAP, unemployment, military pension, federal pensions, social security, Medicare, Medicaid benefits, etc. That will get some people motivated.

[hlthe2b]

13. Several of those programs (medicaid), SNAP, food stamps are administrated by States

the money is pass-through to the states. Requirements to change the rules would have to come in the next funding cycle and would require Congressional action in the next budget.

As to Medicare and veteran or Federal retirement benefits, that would require an entire bureaucratic program to be established just to check vaccine status and dramatically slow down benefits--possibly for months-- something that would ensure R's would take the midterms, frankly. Not to mention that such requirements were not enacted by Congress when these programs were set up, so they would undoubtedly not survive court challenge.

[madville]

16. So in other words a federal vaccine mandate is almost impossible

Because there is no way to verify it or enforce it without some huge bureaucratic entity implementing and running such a program.

[hlthe2b]

19. The constitution pretty much left the authority for these matters to the states...

that is the most significant issue. Funding (commerce) is the only "hook" the Federal Government can hope to use and as I hopefully explained, there is no way to make that quick nor free of inadvertent harm to the very people we want to help.

[Calista241]

14. That wouldn't make it past the first round of court review.

vaccination status wasn't a part of those laws when they were originally written, therefore it's not a valid reason to withhold funds.

[hlthe2b]

15. Yup.

[boston bean]

23. No airplane travel without proof of vaccination.

That will end a ton of this bullshit.

[lagomorph777]

27. TSA could enforce that.

They adjust the rules all the time; should be doable.

Take your shoes and belt off; present your boarding pass and vax card.

[Ms. Toad]

25. They likely do have the legal authority,

Although it is less certain than in the past.

You are correct that many federal mandates are imposed by withholding federal funds - but not all.

The ADA, Civil Rights Act, etc. were all passed on the strength of the Commerce clause. Anything that impacts interstate commerce can be enacted under the constitutional authority of the commerce clause.

COVID certainly impacts interestate commerce (states are requiring quarantines on individuals entering their state, tourism depends on people traveling from state to state, planes, trains, and automobiles are the instrementalities of interstate commerce - and have been directly impacted by COVID.

That said, since US v. Lopez (banning guns in school zones) - which was found to have been enacted wtihout authority under the commerce clause, it is less certain that federal laws claiming commerce clause authority will be upheld. Prior to Lopez, laws were routinely upheld; now it is far harder to find them constitutionally. However, I think there is a much stronger case for a vaccine mandate than for gun control. It seems to me more akin to the reasoning that upheld the Civil Rights Act. (Discrimination by those offering public accommodations negatively impacted the flow of interstate commerce)

[pandr32]

3. I agree we need this

[LeftInTX]

4. I believe states handle vaccine mandates

However, I'm sure funding from the federal government is also a factor in their decisions.

[DURHAM D]

6. States do seem to be in charge but I keep asking -

By what explicit authority?

[LeftInTX]

11. Old laws

[Sgent]

20. The 10th amendment

reserves health and safety and related police power to the states. A federal mandate would be a stretch and with this SCOTUS...

[Zeitghost]

24. The Constitution, specifically the 10th amendment

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[Ms. Toad]

26. The answers you have already received are correc -

However, the Commerce Clause gives the federal government the power over the channels and instrumentalties of interstate commerce - and the power to pass laws that ensure the free flow of commerce. Since COVID is definitely impacting interstate commerce, regulating it should fall within the boundaries of the commerce clause. Lopez makes it trickier - but I don't think it's out of the question.

[milestogo]

7. No, for all colors.

[CrackityJones75]

9. Wait wut?

I missed something.

[hlthe2b]

10. Where the hell do you get that from? Or were you merely trying to sow a controversy that doesn't

exist?

No one is discussing mandates for select populations ONLY.

[FBaggins]

8. Federalism mostly

The states are directly empowered (sometimes the governor, sometimes the state legislature, sometimes the legislature delegating their power to the governor) to deal with pandemics (including the power to quarantine, require vaccinations, etc.) - It's part of the state's police powers.

The federal government generally lacks police powers and has to back into some things through the commerce clause. In theory, Congress could pass a law granting such power to the President (claiming that it impacted interstate commerce), but it would certainly be challenged and does not currently exist. The President certainly can't do it through executive order.

Interestingly enough, this happens to be this year's collegiate moot court topic.

[Hortensis]

17. +1 to all the sensible explanations, plus

a national order would likely lead to extremely widespread defiance and refusal by many millions, all the way from the top with some red state governments to street people.

We are in the middle of an attempted coup against our government, and civil unrest and disobedience benefit that.

[MiHale]

21. Should have been mandated sooner...too late now...

One question I have is how did it work for polio? I was way too young to know anything about how it was done just know we all went to the church hall and ate sugar cubes with a red liquid dropped on it.

Pro…didn’t get polio

Con…still will eat a cube even now if I run across one but not as many as when I was a kid. My sister and I ate those things till our bodies quivered with false energy.

[lagomorph777]

28. Yeah, but don't eat the brown ones.

Lots of people are having bad trips on them.

[former9thward]

30. The polio vaccine was not free.

It cost $2 and that is around $20 ,in today's dollars. Maybe that is the answer? More people would place value on something they have to pay for instead of getting it for "free" ?

[ripcord]

29. Base a national vaccine passport on the Texas abortion law

People can sue their neighbors for $10,000 if they think they are violating the vaccine passport law.