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Jilly_in_VA

(9,962 posts)
Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:28 AM Sep 2021

How the Sovereign Citizen Movement Convinces Desperate Parents to Ignore Laws

The message at the seminar was enticing: If you filed documents using peculiar language—invoking, for example, the jurisdictions of the air and water—you didn’t have to wear masks on planes. You could get pulled over for speeding and not show your driver’s license. You could squat in a building and legally own it in just a few months. In fact, many U.S. laws simply didn’t apply to you at all.

“The ultimate goal is to be free, to be the king,” said David Straight, a white-bearded man with a bald eagle on his belt buckle. An audience of 20 sat rapt and took notes as Straight spoke. The cost of attendance was $200. “When the bailiff says, ‘All rise,’” he continued, “I lean back in my chair and put my feet up. I’m the boss.”

Straight is part of a political underground known for unusual courtroom antics. They’re called Sovereign Citizens by the judges and attorneys they antagonize, but they call themselves many names: free men on the land, Natural Persons, or, in Straight’s case, American State Nationals. The gist is that a secret body of laws has been hidden from the people. Harnessing it—typically in strangely worded legal filings but sometimes also in armed confrontations with anyone perceived as a threat—can set you free.

The movement is as decentralized as you’d expect from a group that hates being subject to any government. Some sovereigns are tax protesters, others obsess over capital letters and hyphens in laws. Some sovereigns sport DIY license plates, others peddle get-out-of-debt hacks. There are both white nationalist sovereigns and Black nationalist sovereigns. Recently, a band of the latter, who pledged allegiance to a Moroccan state, engaged the police in an armed, nine-hour standoff on the I-95 in Massachusetts.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5db8ak/sovereign-citizens-movement-attacking-child-protective-services

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How the Sovereign Citizen Movement Convinces Desperate Parents to Ignore Laws (Original Post) Jilly_in_VA Sep 2021 OP
A cousin of mine was in this movement. jmbar2 Sep 2021 #1
if they dont belive in us laws , then they arnt american anymore and should be deported as such. AllaN01Bear Sep 2021 #2
That is part of the challenge for courts responding to their arguments - they do believe in US laws Ms. Toad Sep 2021 #3
thanks for your insight and on the ground observations. AllaN01Bear Sep 2021 #4
Basically, they are just outlaws then PatSeg Sep 2021 #5

jmbar2

(4,870 posts)
1. A cousin of mine was in this movement.
Thu Sep 9, 2021, 11:57 AM
Sep 2021

He ended up in prison for advising people that they didn't have to pay taxes. He was wrong.

Ms. Toad

(34,059 posts)
3. That is part of the challenge for courts responding to their arguments - they do believe in US laws
Thu Sep 9, 2021, 12:42 PM
Sep 2021

They interpret them differently.

It takes forever to respond to even a very short complaint/appeal - let alone a 100+ page motion filed by one recently. Because they often do cite actual law, the court has to respond to each argument as if it had some validity in order to avoid creating grounds for further appeal. (In other words, court's just can't say, "hogwash," even though it is.

As a judicial atorney, it easily took me at least twice as long to draft the response to an appeal from one of these jerks as to any other appeal of equivalent length.

PatSeg

(47,369 posts)
5. Basically, they are just outlaws then
Thu Sep 9, 2021, 12:44 PM
Sep 2021

Guess they were born in the wrong time and the wrong place, though I think a lot of them enjoy the attention.

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