Man who drove from Colo. to D.C. on Jan. 6 pleads guilty to threatening to shoot Pelosi in head on l

[Ohio Joe]

Man who drove from Colo. to D.C. on Jan. 6 pleads guilty to threatening to shoot Pelosi in head on live TV

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-who-drove-from-colo-to-d-c-on-jan-6-pleads-guilty-to-threatening-to-shoot-pelosi-in-head-on-live-tv/ar-AAOj8ZL?ocid=msedgntp

I think we are lucky it's mostly morans that attempted the insurrection. These fools are still a grave danger though and should really get the screws put to them.

[StarfishSaver]

2. There have been approximately 600 arrests so far

Do you know how many of these defendants have pleaded guilty, what charges they pleaded to, what their sentences were, what are the usual plea bargained sentences for the crimes they pleaded to, whether all of the sentences that have been handed down so far are harsher, lighter or pretty much in line with those other sentences and what would be the likelihood that they would be convicted of more serious crimes and receive harsher sentences if the prosecutors refused to let them plead out and instead went to trial?

Unless you can answer yes to that question - and have facts and statistics backing up your claim - you really don't know if these sentences are light, much less whether "there's a foundation being laid" for anything.

[StarfishSaver]

5. No, I don't know everything - and don't pretend to. I'm pointing out to you that you don't, either.

[StarfishSaver]

8. What an odd response

You are certainly free to express your opinion. But if you don't want anyone to pose their own opinion in response or challenge you in any way, perhaps you you should not express yourself on a public discussion board.

[StarfishSaver]

11. Nope. I rarely put people on Ignore. I find what most people have to say interesting,

even if I don't agree with them.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Got Your Back

I really don't get people whose first reaction is hit "ignore".
I've never used it, & I've been here 20 years.

[Progressive Jones]

13. Thank You. nt

[Bettie]

22. Do you understand the frustration many of us feel

when these people who violently assaulted our capitol, threatened to kill elected officials, and were attempting to stop election certification are allowed to go on vacation, violate their probation and still be set free to do as they please?

One of them got his ankle monitor removed because it made him itchy and people were less likely to trust him as a "life coach" if he was wearing it.

Here is my question for you: Do you believe that if these insurrectionists were not white, they would be receiving the same gentle treatment?

Fact is, it is frustrating for a lot of us that they are apparently being treated better than most people would be for no reason we can see except that they are white right wingers and they get a pass on everything, it seems.

[StarfishSaver]

24. I certainly do understand. That's why I take so much time and effort to explain how this works

Last edited Sat Sep 11, 2021, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

so that people can sort out the wheat from the chaff, fact from fiction.

I'm frustrated too. But having spent my career working in positions that involved making or being involved in the making of difficult decisions requiring the balancing of complicated and often conflicting factors - most of which were unknown to people not bearing the responsibility of those decisions - I am well aware that things aren't always what they appear to be at first glance. So, before getting angry or making accusations, I try to find out more about the situation and what went into the decisions that were made. I often find that, even if the decisions seem to be bad ones, once more facts are known, it turns out the decision was the best option available. Approaching things this way helps me avoid a lot of angst and frustration.

There are plenty of areas that are screwed up and merit our attention, anger and frustration. But all too often, I see people wasting a lot of time an energy getting worked up over things that aren't actually screwed up, that are happening for valid reasons and that don't merit an all out attack. I try to explain those areas to people so that they better understand why certain things are done in a certain way so that they aren't tilting at windmills or overreacting to things that don't warrant it.

As for your question about how I think they'd be treated if they were Black, in order to respond, I must sort this into two categories - law enforcement/Treatment on Day Of and the aftermath in the court system.

Had these insurrectionists been Black, I am certain they would never have gotten anywhere near the Capitol because law enforcement would have taken the warnings seriously and would not have seen a threatening mob as a "free speech rally." Instead, they would have fortified the Capitol grounds and had enough heavily armored and riot-geared personnel with heavy weaponry, including long guns, to keep the mob far away and at bay. Had they been Black, we wouldn't even be looking at arrests and prosecutions of hundreds of insurrectionists because it wouldn't have gotten to that point.

But let's assume it did get to that point and we were now dealing with trying to prosecute hundreds of people as is happening now, but the defendants were Black. I think that, at this stage, we'd be seeing the same kinds of sentences for most of those agreeing to plea bargains because, as I've said, the judges and prosecutors don't have a lot of wiggle room in that area - the sentences are dictated by law and not just made up by the prosecutors and judges.

Yes, some of the sentences may be harsher if the defendants were Black, mostly depending on the judge, they wouldn't be significantly different because, as I said, they are determined by the sentencing guidelines, and the judge does not have much discretion.

This is not an instance of "white right wingers getting a pass on everything." These people are facing felony convictions and jail time - they aren't getting a pass at all. I don't think this is a matter of white right wingers being treated to well, since most of these people are being treated well within the bounds of what the guidelines call for. We just have too many instances of Black defendants NOT being treated appropriately in the system.

I am putting a lot of effort and expertise in trying to explain on this board how the law works in this regard so people can better understand why certain decisions are being made and can more effectively and efficiently target their attention and anger at where things are really messed up. If folks want to listen and learn, that's great. But if they just want to lash out in anger regardless of the facts and circumstances, even after it's explained, that's up to them, but they shouldn't be surprised if their anger doesn't result in anything but more frustration.

Speaking of separating fact from fiction, I'm not aware of any of these defendants getting his ankle monitor removed because it was itchy. Do you have a source for that?

[OAITW r.2.0]

6. The Stupid from the Instigators must be culled.

Stupid will give prosecutable evidence that there was an organized Insurrection with WH support.

[babylonsister]

4. A life sentence sounds appropriate. nt

[Deuxcents]

12. Has a nice ring to it

[StarfishSaver]

15. According to the article, he's looking at between six months and two years in prison,

under federal sentencing guidelines. How much time he actually gets will depend "on whether the government argues and the judge agrees that there is evidence he could have been able to carry out his threat."

[malaise]

21. And if that is the sentence for threatening to blow away the Speaker's brain

then Chin music is correct.

[StarfishSaver]

23. That IS the sentence for interstate communication of a threat, the crime he pleaded guilty to

He texted a family member that he was “Thinking about heading over to Pelosi . . . speech and putting a bullet in her noggin on Live TV."

While that is a chilling comment, it would be very difficult to convict him in court since prosecutors would have to prove, among other things, that he intended the communication to be an actual threat and knew that the comment would be seen as a threat. Proving that kind of mens rea is never easy and would be particularly difficult in this case since he never took any further steps to act on the comment - in fact, he never went to the Capitol on January 6 - and he claims he wasn't serious but was simply engaging in "hyperbole," a defense that could easily be accepted by at least one juror in a trial.

If anyone has a problem with the sentence he's facing - which is fully within the parameters set by the law - they should direct their frustration at Congress and the U.S. Sentencing Commission, which created the elements of this crime and determined the sentence that should apply to it. The prosecutors and judge don't have much choice here, at least if they want the guy to be held accountable at all and not get his case dismissed or get acquitted by a jury.

And while it may be that this sentence is too light, that is the result of the law, not the prosecutors and judges and iit is incorrect to claim that this defendant is getting some kind of special treatment or is being dealt with less harshly with other people charged with the same crime. It just happens that most people don't pay any attention to the criminal justice system, prosecutions, trials, and sentencing handed out, so when they DO hear about something like this, they think it's unique or that something fishy is afoot. But there is nothing unusual or suspicious about a prosecutor recommending and a judge imposing a sentence on the lower end of the sentencing guidelines in return for a guilty plea in order to avoid the risk and uncertainty of trying a case that could very well result in an acquittal.

[Progressive Jones]

14. Another piece of the Ameri-Trash merely getting its' wrist slapped. WTF? nt

[StarfishSaver]

17. He's not "getting his wrist slapped"

He's pleading guilty to a felony - making a threat - and will be sentenced under federal guidelines.

The alternative is taking his case to trial - which could take years - and risking a dismissal or acquittal and watching him walk away Scot free.

[Progressive Jones]

18. The potential 18-24 month sentence that the article mentions is far too lenient

considering the crime(s).

Why do you keep arguing against harsh punishment for these filthy traitors? Just curious.

[StarfishSaver]

19. That is the sentence the law sets for the crime he's pleading guilty to

But if you think he's being treated too leniently, please consider these questions:

1. What crime do you think he should be charged with instead of those he's pleading guilty to?

2. What evidence are you certain the prosecutors have and can introduce in court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of those crimes?

3. What sentence range does the federal sentencing guidelines set for that crime?

4. What degree of certainty do you have that, if the case against him were to go to trial, a jury would find this defendant guilty of the more serious charges you propose.

5. If you are overwhelmingly certain that he would be convicted of the more serious charges, what degree of certainty do you have that he would receive a harsher sentence than he's accepting now?

6. If he does go to trial, approximately when do you think the trial would actually commence ?

7. If the case does go to trial, how likely so you think it is that the judge would keep the defendant in jail without bail awaiting trial for one or two years or do you think that, giving the length of time of the pendency of the trial, the judge will probably grant him bail, so he doesn't have to spend this time in jail awaiting trial?

These are all questions and considerations the prosecution has to make in each and every one of these cases.

And, fyi. I have never "argued against harsher sentences" for these defendants. I would love to see these guys buried under the jail. But there's a big difference between what you or I want to see happen to them and what the criminal justice system can actually do to them under existing law.

I am trying to explain to you and others how plea bargains and sentencing work in the criminal justice system so that you can better understand why these defendants are getting the sentences they are - instead of jumping to conclusions based on uninformed assumptions.

[EffieBlack]

20. Good questions

They should encourage some thought. Nicely done.

[GoCubsGo]

25. Apparently, he is originally from Georgia.

I'm betting he now resides in Colorado Springs or its vicinity. Hopefully, this unreformed Johnny Reb well be moving to Florence. They have a nice concrete room waiting for the likes of him.