I think we make too big a deal about 9/11

[Bucky]

I think commemorating it like it's a defining event in American history is a willful distortion of what's important in the American story and a poor choice of how we choose to see the world.

Culturally we celebrate the things that define us. The gratitude that goes to those who served the nation (Veterans Day, Memorial Day), the gathering together of family (Christmas, Thanksgiving), the hope of the new year, our freedom and independence as a people (4th of July, Juneteenth). Even the non holidays say something about us, about who we choose to be as a people: Constitution Day (September 17th), Flag Day (June 14th), Mother's Day, Father's Day.

So 20 years after the fact, as we continue to to impress upon children, who have no recollection of the terror attacks, the unique defining characteristic of 9/11 in American identity, what are we telling them? We're telling them that along with gratitude, family, freedom, democracy, and hope... another core American value is being attacked, being victimized, being "hated for our freedoms."

This seems to feed into the culture of resentment that, frankly, has taken far too big a space in American culture in the past few years.

And I mean no disrespect to the lives that were lost. They should be remembered. I'm not saying forget history; I'm saying don't disproportionately wallow in the pain of a loss. All the other big days on our calendar are about "wins." MLK Day is about commemorating the triumph and advancement of the cause of civil rights; about a man's contributions, not a man's murder. Veterans Day began as the marker for the end of a war we won. Now it's about honoring all who ever wore the nation's uniform.

A generation after Pearl Harbor there weren't displays and flourishes about December 7th. The days we marked and remembered were VJ Day and VE Day. There were wreath layings in Honolulu, but the speeches were always about the positive values of strength and preparedness and gratitude for America's unique place and mission in the world. A generation ago there was little controversy about marking Columbus Day. We saw the European discovery of America as a win for us. But as our national sensibilities have shifted, as our awareness of the full story of what the Columbian Exchange meant in human history, we have naturally moved away from celebrating Columbus Day. And we don't concentrate our celebrations now on the near genocide of native peoples and indigenous American cultures. We feel it's more natural to "take the win" and instead focus on honoring the critical contributions of indigenous people and cultures to the American story.

When we came to see the connection of the hemispheres as a "loss," we shifted our focus to what was positive and hopeful. And that's how it should be. That's what we should strive to be as a nation and its people. We don't forget the past, we don't forget the history. On Earth Day, we do make note of pollution and climate change, but the theme of the day is recycling. On Veterans Day, we do give tribute to the sacrifices, but the theme of the day is the freedom and rights those sacrifices secured.

But where is the transformation of September 11th? As Armistice Day was converted to Veterans Day, we could transmogrify to celebrate "First Responders Day". Instead what I see is efforts to permanently make 9/11 about the death and destruction of that terrible day, an American Remembrance Day. I don't think that's psychologically healthy; I don't think that's sociologically healthy. Defining our culture by our losses (as we specifically do not when we rebrand tragedies into celebrations as with Indigenous Peoples' Day or Easter), leads us down a rabbit hole towards seeing ourselves as victims.

This distorts history. The last 20 years of American, no global, history are already defined by America's unhealthy overreaction to 9/11. A significant event that cost thousands of lives quickly escalated into an unnecessary war, an orgy of torture and official acts of criminality, a ineffective foreign policy, and literally millions of more unnecessary deaths. Our obsession with 9/11 doesn't create, but it feeds into a racist view of an already overly violent corner of the world. It's not good for us and yet it's what we're choosing to be as a people when we treat those 3,000 deaths as different and as more defining than all the other deaths that have occurred since.

For the sake of understanding of the past and for the sake of working towards a more positive future, I think we need to quit reveling in the pain and loss of September 11, 2001.

[Dawson Leery]

1. That day changed the course of history.

The events poured tons of fuel on the fires of the far right. 9/11 is why we are in Crisis today.

[JI7]

3. That seems to be the point being made in the OP

the way we remember it does no good for us and just results in more destruction.

Memorializing the lives lost is one thing but it always goes beyond that .

[Roy Rolling]

157. A Commercial Nation

America monetized 9/11. So business-friendly, U.S., state, and local governments turned war into a commercial enterprise.

Mobilizing for World War 2 made some companies rich, it’s been repeated 700 billion times a year since then—despite fighting enemies whose armies hide in the bushes. Weak businesses are now welfare recipients from compliant politicians, weakening both the business and national security..

[flor-de-jasmim]

4. Our reaction to 9/11 is why we are in Crisis today, IMHO.

The 3,000+ lives lost on that day have become obscured by the numbers of casualties in the two wars we started based on 9/11, the fear of liquids and shoes at airports, the increasing polarization of the population and celebration of one's own "facts".

I like the idea of First Responders' Day - then and today, they may be "first" responders, but they are sometimes also our "last" defense. Here's to them/you!!

[hot2na]

15. Seeing Bush the 2nds face on the TV will keep me from watching.

The lesson is that if you have a buffoon president, like Bush/Trump, in times of crisis their screw ups will last for generations. The Bush screw ups are well documented and still wreaking havoc on the country. Trumps mere presence has caused much damage and will continue to do so.

[jrthin]

19. How very true!

[DeeDeeNY]

160. Exactly right

[3Hotdogs]

135. Not just that reaction to 9/11, the ineptitude and bad foreign. policy that led up to it.....

From the Dulles brothers and the beginning of the Cold War, to our mid-east policy.

Remember, Bin Laden didn't attack us because he was jealous of a Starbucks on every corner. Nor was it about our "free society" and democracy.


It was about he wanted our troops and presence out of Saudi Arabia.

[Tikki]

40. And the hypocrisy of the burgeoning far right from this tragedy is just stunning

Before...New York City from their POV was not the real America.
It was those elites, full of immigrants, POC and artsy types and was criticized roundly, and often.

They rallied around this tragedy only in a FEAR that it could happen in their tiny towns.

Tikki

[electric_blue68]

156. You might be right...

But I do remember, and I guess you might say for a
city that might be put in the list of those looking askance- at NYC (I'm born & bred, and have heard the "not America" appellation off & on much of my life)...

But had it's own domestic terrorist attack previously.

I was at The Cathedral for St John the Divine (Manhattan near Columbia Uni) possibly the Sun after 9/11. In their gift shop I ran into a woman from Oklahoma City who was wearing a Oklahoma ❤️ New York T-shirt who'd come up to do some manner of volunteer work. It was such a uplifting moment.

[Tikki]

168. There are good people every where...bet the kind lady from OK isn't a rabid right winger.

Tikki

[electric_blue68]

172. Yes, there ARE Good People Everywhere!

[ck4829]

2. What is it - several times more people have been killed in individual murders to spree shootings

Since 9/11.

[dhol82]

5. I think it's time to hang up on the pity party.

It just keeps picking at the scab.

[North Shore Chicago]

6. You're a little thinker!

Great post.

[rickyhall]

7. It is a stark reminder of Republican incompetence like the Beirut bombing.

[Captain Zero]

149. right. Cheney was IN CHARGE of a remake of terrorism response when it happened

They trashed everything Clinton had set up when they came in and surprise they weren't ready for 911.
The Cheney Family and the Bushes need to go piss up a rope.

[boston bean]

8. I will never forget. But I am hoping year twenty will bring the end to

the public commemorations. Only because we are not just commemorating the dead victims. We are commemorating the attack and continuing to give it power over us.

[Bettie]

9. Wow, this is a great piece

I find it rings true for me.

Thanks for this.

[underpants]

10. I'm glad you aren't silent. I agree with much of that. I detest this celebration of 9/11

I detest funerals and it feels like thousands of funerals.

Cause, incompetence, and effect are topics worth discussing. We totally screwed up our reaction. Was it meant just to funnel money into weaponry and all the loose cash that comes with military operations? Yes there was a fully cultivated group of people who used this as a trigger for their naive simplistic vision of the world.

That gets me to my point. These horrific deaths of that one day were a perverse justification for everything the grifters of the right have sold for years. Superiority of Christianity, stark good vs evil, light vs DARK, violence as the answer, subhuman people not worthy of basic human decency, billion dollars of murderous toys to inflict on a artificially created country - an easy easy win, and complete suppression of any questions - all together or being cast out.

I hate it for what happened and what it represents and what it exposed. I hate everything about it.

[Probatim]

143. Thanks for posting this. It's pretty much the same discussion I had with my wife tonight.

We funneled trillions to the MIC and, combined our reactions, policies, and laws in the States, have truly hurt this country.

I feel like most of my adult life has been one long, slow train wreck as I watched and became numb to this tragedy and the tragedies born in its wake.

I think of what we could have done with thoughtful leaders and a different outlook on foreign policy and it's maddening.

[CousinIT]

11. Are we going to memorialize January 6th the same way? Why not?

Like 9-11, January 6th was a terrorist attack (of the insurrectionist kind). People were attacked, died, and those who implemented that attack went there to KILL others to force the US gov't to do what the terrorists wanted.

I don't understand the vast difference in the treatment of these two events.

[onetexan]

13. +1 -K&R

I think we ahould memorialize both, given we were attacked by terrorists at both events- one domestic, one foreign.

[Demsrule86]

12. I disagree. Like Pearl Harbor, it was a defining day in history.

I think we should always remember 9-11.

[niyad]

17. Did you see Keith Olbermann's video about 9/11? Thought-provoking.

[orleans]

76. do you have a link to it? i'd like to see it

on edit:
i think this is what you're talking about. (i haven't watched it yet)

[niyad]

86. Yes, this one.

[Demsrule86]

116. No, I will have to listen. We were attacked and certainly it changed history... not in a good way.

[Bucky]

123. A point I try to make clear is...

There's a huge difference between the impact of the 9/11 attacks and the consequences of the American overreaction to 9/11.

The regional destabilization caused by our blundered invasion and occupation of Iraq has nothing to do with terror attacks. The difference may be perceptual. But we as a nation have wilfully chosen inaccurate and dangerous perceptions.

[malthaussen]

22. "Remembering" is one thing...

... making it a huge orgy of self-pity and loathing is another. In 1961, we did not make that kind of big deal over Pearl Harbor.
In 2001, the "whole world changed." It says here. If true, it is not a change to commemorate or celebrate. We define our view of "the world," and I think it is past time we changed ours. After all, by 1961 the Japanese were our friends, known only for making cheap electronics.

-- Mal

[Autumn]

96. I have a friend that calls it what it is, grief porn.

[Ferrets are Cool]

68. Honest question. What did it define?

That we had a President at the time that chose to ignore warnings and could very possibly have averted this attack?

Honestly, what did it define?

[marybourg]

82. That we are no longer protected

by two great oceans and by the wealth and technology gap between ourselves and the 3rd world.

[Bucky]

109. I disagree with that

As a certified US history teacher, I think we in North America are very much protected by two oceans and our unique national wealth from the consequences of our foreign policy.

Compare the middle eastern refugees & immigrants we get compared to Europe. Compare the border issues Russia or China deal with resulting from their foreign policies. Compare the affluence of our society and the reach our mass media cultural influence to the rest of the world's.

We are still an island. 9/11 was an exception, not a paradigm shift.

[Ferrets are Cool]

117. Thank you for saying it better than I would have.

[malthaussen]

126. First of all, there is no such thing as "protection," and never was.

Politicians who pitch the idea that we could be "safe" if only we allowed just one little thing -- torture, for example -- are reasoning (if we can call it that) from a false principle.

Our oceans and technology gap still make it difficult and complicated for attacks to be mounted on our soil (unless the attack is from inside sources, as with 6 January). "Difficult and complicated" are not "impossible." Nevertheless, there has not been any sort of external terrorism comparable to 9/11, in fact there have been hardly any acts of external terrorism (acts by internal terrorists are much more numerous). So how, then, has our world changed in that respect?

-- Mal

[Gore1FL]

137. We weren't beating our chests in 1961 about Pearl Harbor.

We were able to get over the self-pity faster in those days.

[dlk]

14. The military industrial complex never sleeps

There’s always a new opportunity for them to monetize a situation.

[McKim]

63. Very true!!!

Very true!!! The overblown coverage of 9/11 this year is almost begging the MIC to go back to Afghanistan and finish the job with a renewed war. Ramping up fear and hate and conflict is what we are now addicted to! And this is a sick addiction. The news is full of hate and conflict on all fronts. Our society is sick because of this overreaction to terrorism. I am not participating. We are going to paint a Peace Circle in my neighborhood today and be together with like minded neighbors!

[dlk]

84. That sounds like a great idea

[treestar]

70. That's why they want to keep reminding us

and rack up the fear. Add in the "security industrial complex."

[dlk]

85. When there are $billions yo be made...

[dlk]

90. When there are $ billions to be made...

[usaf-vet]

16. WE STILL don't know the truth of what happen that day. The truth is buried and classified as always.

[Bucky]

102. Big events like that always have some mysteries, of course

We know the big stuff: who knocked the towers down, how they did it, why...

We'll never know who ALL the underwriters of alQaeda are, how the Saud family members got shuttled out of the country... But that's largely the ephemera of powerful people acting powerful.

That shit is constantly going on

[hlthe2b]

18. Many of us have had lives defined by JFK assassination, Vietnam, MLK/RFK deaths, Challenger disaster

(and for me, at least, Columbine shootings), and ultimately 911. All of it, televised to the nth degree, much of it live.

Just as my parents were defined by Roosevelt's radio address following the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor, Dec. 7, 1941--a day that will live in infamy.

It isn't that we commemorate these events on major anniversaries. It is that we do so poorly teaching history. I didn't have to google an event that occurred before I was born, nor do I have to do so for an event (JFK assassination) that I was really too young to have more than a child's impressions. These are important events that have, for good or bad, brought us to this day.

I point you to my sig line. It isn't ignoring history that is causing us problems, but failing to learn from it.

[Fla Dem]

34. +1,000 Well said. My feelings exactly.

[FoxNewsSucks]

57. You're right

I think the reason for this annual 9/11 spectacle is to make sure the public doesn't think too hard about the truth or learn anything from it.

[marble falls]

20. We've made too much out of Sept 11.

[malthaussen]

21. I agree. n/t

[hay rick]

23. It's time to wallow in pity once again and then

invoke that self-pity to gloss over our own misdeeds. Two tragedies flowed from that date- the deaths and destruction on that day and later, the misguided and manipulated reaction to that day. The second tragedy led to the folly of Iraq and the climate that allowed the overextended occupation of Afghanistan. The frenzied flag-waving "patriotism" and chants of "support our troops" drowned out the voices of those who sensibly asked what the fuck are we doing? The awful legacy of 9-11 is a more paranoid, xenophobic, and vicious American society.

[AngryOldDem]

44. This.

They were still bashing Biden for Afghanistan this morning.

Pray tell, experts…if we couldn’t decisively beat the Taliban in the longest war we ever fought, would 20 more years make a difference?

A lot of people made a shit-ton of money off of this, and if that isn’t the biggest disrespect to 9/11 victims, I don’t know what is.

[Ferrets are Cool]

69. I couldn't have said it better

[Owl]

24. I agree. Well said.

[Docreed2003]

25. The memorial services and somber events are hard enough

But it doesn't seem that the media is satisfied with memorials alone...no they want us to REMEMBER DAMNIT. So everywhere you turn you see pictures and video of buildings burning and falling and frightened, injured people running...it's all too much and a bit like gore porn & we seen to be addicted to it as a society

[stillcool]

26. Time has only exacerbated

what happened that day, week, month, year, and what transpired in so many ways as a direct result has made the date more unsettling. A source of anger aimed in all directions.

[Nuffer]

27. Sick of 9/11

My birthday is today...had people tell me to change it...I was here first...shouldn't we be talking about all the continuing deaths from our present pandemic instead of beating on something that happened 20 fucking years ago???

[FoxNewsSucks]

54. 660k deaths that are "officially" reported

I think it's far higher, but somehow those deaths aren't enough to matter. They used 3k deaths to pass the wrongly named Patriot Act, spy on us, loot the treasury, put travel restrictions on us, and invade other countries.

But 660k+ deaths isn't even reason enough to put on a mask for some people.

[ProfessorGAC]

87. Experts Say 30-40% Higher

I know 4 actuaries at 3 different insurance companies.
Their analyses all say the same thing.
30-40% more COVID deaths than the reported values.
Suggest closer to 900,000.

[Pacifist Patriot]

55. Happy Birthday!

[LakeArenal]

56. Most of us can do both.

[Ferrets are Cool]

71. My birthday also and I feel the same way.

[niyad]

91. Happy Birthday. How are you observing this day?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

77. Happy Birthday

Make the day about yourself. Shut off the TV and ditch social media. Do something with friends and family.

Stuff other than the attack has happened on 11 September.

[niyad]

92. Happy Birthday. How are you observing this day?

[JI7]

122. And the people dying from shootings which we do nothing to stop

[LakeArenal]

28. Wow. Who's "celebrating"?

It’s a memorial. Not a celebration. How else should we “remember” the lost if not a memorial?

It’s the turn in history where govt lied to us
openly. It began the hate campaigns we see today. US govt and Republicans have weaponized this day to promote war.

It put us into Afghanistan for twenty years.

Should we “quit picking that scab” and just forget history.

Calling it a pity fest is so dismissive.

Should we quit acknowledging the holocaust as a pity fest?

Is acknowledging our years of slavery picking a scab?


Though so many agree with this post, I am confused by it.

[Bucky]

37. I definitely do not say we should "just forget history."

I think I pretty clearly said the opposite.

The Holocaust was a monumentally important and tragic event. I don't think the September 11th attacks come anywhere near close to that sort of thing. I think it almost diminishes the Holocaust to attempt that comparison.

But even at that, the theme of Holocaust memorials is pretty consistently "Never Again" and Holocaust museums all over the country routinely present exhibits about other ongoing atrocities in the hopes of preventing future ones. There is very little going on in 9/11 commemorations that attempt to universalize the human struggle or present a light in the darkness. It's still all about the firefighters who rushed into the buildings and the passengers who fought back.

The character of holocaust events is prevention of future tragedies. The character of 9/11 events is atavism.

[LakeArenal]

47. Well I guess we will have to disagree.

You think it minimizes the holocaust.
Which nothing on earth could do for some of us.

[Bucky]

110. I'm okay with disagreeing on opinions

I don't think there's room to disagree about the meaning of the word "almost"

[LakeArenal]

119. I don't parse individual words. Some folks are not as eloquent as others.

[Polly Hennessey]

41. To me, it has become something of a sideshow of a

tragedy. We will never forget but why the constant wailing about it. Why read the names of those who died. Why don’t we read the names of all those who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I now tune out Sept 11.

[electric_blue68]

174. Uh, there is no "constant wailing"....

Last edited Sun Sep 12, 2021, 06:51 PM - Edit history (1)

It's a few days, maybe 1 week out of 52 weeks of focus.
That's 51 weeks in general of not wailing.

[Donkees]

94. Some people forget that the site is also a repository for over one thousand unidentified remains.

A repository for the remains of 9/11 victims under the jurisdiction of the Office of Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York (OCME) is located at bedrock at the World Trade Center site.

The repository provides a dignified and reverential setting for the unidentified and unclaimed remains of the World Trade Center victims as identifications continue to be made.

The repository is separate from the public space of the 9/11 Memorial Museum and is only accessible by OCME staff. A private space exclusively for 9/11 family members, known as the Reflection Room, is located next to the repository.

https://www.911memorial.org/connect/911-family-members/ocme-repository

[Bucky]

112. This is a beautiful and powerful tribute

Thank you for including this in this discussion

[Donkees]

115. "Twenty years ago, we made a promise to the families of World Trade Center victims ... "

"No matter how much time passes since September 11, 2001, we will never forget, and we pledge to use all the tools at our disposal to make sure all those who were lost can be reunited with their families."

The longtime effort to identify victims of the World Trade Center attacks is considered the largest and most complex forensic investigation in U.S. history, according to New York City's Office of Chief Medical Examiner.

"Twenty years ago, we made a promise to the families of World Trade Center victims to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to identify their loved ones, and with these two new identifications, we continue to fulfill that sacred obligation," said Dr. Barbara A. Sampson, chief medical examiner of the city of New York.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/08/1035046778/9-11-victims-identified-using-new-technology

[smirkymonkey]

120. You have a good point, Lake Arenal.

I agree. It is a matter of perspective. As usual, the media is framing it for all of us.

[LakeArenal]

121. Thanks.

[electric_blue68]

173. Thanks for your post, LA...

Last edited Sun Sep 12, 2021, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)

You can't really sweep this stuff away.

I don't agree the full on jingoism that morphed from it.
Yeah, I did support the Afghan War back then.
I never supported the Iran War, and protested against it.

[Snackshack]

30. Well said.

[Polly Hennessey]

31. Finally, someone is more courageous than me.

It has been 20 years. It did a lot to change how we conducted ourselves regarding international terrorism. It appears it is becoming a cottage industry. I was appalled at the request of some survivors to disinvite President Biden. Not sure I understand the interest in the survivors children. To me, it seems too much. I know it happened, I know how I felt that day, I also know it was used to exploit our country by republicans.

[luvtheGWN]

33. It will be interesting to see if any mention is made of

all those dozens of planes headed for the US that were directed to airports in Canada once US airspace was closed. The US's closest neighbour took care of many thousands of passengers that day, and for several days afterwards. In all the past remembrances over the years, never was this mentioned. It wasn't until the broadway show "Come From Away" gained media attention that most Americans were even made aware of it.

Every year, on September 11, some passengers return to Gander, NFLD to say thanks and meet up with the friends they've made. That is what is heartening!

[electric_blue68]

175. That's wonderful to hear...

It's possible (as an NYC'r) and not that far (relatively speaking from many other cities, and full States) away from Canada - that we heard about our Northern Neighbors help before the play.

❤️ 🇨🇦 ❤️

Decades back been to Toronto, and Montreal.
Have had some on line Canadian friends. 👍

[gulliver]

36. Exceptionally well put.

This should be a mainstream media editorial.

[AngryOldDem]

39. It's turned into a way to keep the hate going....

…to justify continued “wars on [fill in the blank]”. Our massive ego took a hit in the balls, and this is our way to compensate.

NPR had an interview with someone — forget who, too busy driving — who said that like anything else, patriotism can be overdone. Hear, hear. So glad to hear somebody finally say it.

By all means remember this day, but don’t profit off of it — materially or otherwise.

Among my family I’ve called it “Ripping Off The Scab Day,” because just like with any wound, it won’t heal if that’s done, and will only make the scar that much worse. That’s what we’ve been doing for too many years.

[appleannie1]

42. I feel sorry for those that lost loved ones. Forced to remember that day year after year after year

When we lose a loved one, time blurs the event and we are left with pleasant memories that ease our grief. They are forced to see the towers fall, the Pentagon burn and a field in Pennsylvania every year. Even if they don't turn on their TV's, they know the reason why.

[LakeArenal]

51. Like those of us with friends and loved ones affected, we will always remember it.

Forced not by memorial services but by the actions that day.

[appleannie1]

93. Of course, but they don't have to see it happen every year and relive the initial pain over and over

[LakeArenal]

118. Not everyone does that. Some see it as a celebration of a loved one's life.

Not celebration. More like marking the existence of a loved on who was erased.

[electric_blue68]

176. my condolences if you knew people who lost people, you lost people...

or knew injured family, friends, colleagues.

We had one cousin who did serious business in The Towers at times. We didn't hear from her for 2+ days. We were so worried. She was just so distraught she couldn't talk to any one.

[LakeArenal]

177. Two degrees of separation. But yes.

[electric_blue68]

179. {digital hug} : (

[LakeArenal]

180. Awww nice. ❣️❣️

[Pacifist Patriot]

53. A college friend lost his brother that day.

His family loathes the media attention, and you're spot on. He feels it doesn't allow the family to move on in certain ways.

[appleannie1]

95. There are probably thousands that loathe the media attention with them.

[dflprincess]

144. Several years ago I heard a discussion with grief counselors and psychologists

about how the constant coverage every anniversary was harmful to those who had lost loved ones and made it more difficult to move on with their own lives.

Of course they will never forget the ones who died and none of us ever stop missing those we've lost but these people are having the wound ripped over every year.

Every year on December 7 there is a memorial held at Pearl Harbor and it gets a quiet mention on the news (this year may be a bigger deal as it will be 80 years & probably the last one any survivors are here for). It may be time for 9/11 memorials to follow suit.

[Marthe48]

43. Thank you for taking the time to write

You gave us a thoughtful and to me, right on, essay that describes exactly why I won't tune in to the coverage. I silently commemorate the losses, for Pearl Harbor Day and 9/11, but I try to do something positve to counter the tragedy and horror.

I think that the coverage of the anniversary of 9/11 does nothing to help our country heal and move forward. Other countries all over the world have been attacked on their own soil, and they moved on. As a country, we should find a way to live with the shock that we aren't invulnerable, and the realization that not everyone likes us. Actually, we have plenty of American citizens that hate this country more than any foreign nationals do.

[forgotmylogin]

45. Good to remember, but healthy to move on.

I have thought about 9/11 plenty since it happened and watched lots of TV about it, so I'm not going full submersion in the media today. If I run across it that's fine, but I'm not going out of my way. We have new modern issues happening that also deserve focus.

[FoxNewsSucks]

46. I agree, but it isn't really "we" who are making the big deal

I honestly think the tone and style of the "big deal" every year compared to remembrances of other momentous events is deliberately done to keep the public thinking the right way. As post #18 concluding statement notes, ignoring history instead of learning from it is the problem.

9/11 can't be ignored. But we're damn sure not supposed to think about how it really happened and why. Who profited from it directly and then afterward. Who benefited from it. Who fucked up. Who maybe enabled and/or let it happen. The best way to keep the public opinion in line is therefore, to make this "big deal" every year and keep the topic and conversation controlled.

The corporate-owned media does a great job of telling Americans how to think about 9/11. The truth can't be forgotten, or totally covered up, but they effectively do just that by orchestrating this annual "big deal". One need look no further than the fact that the lying war criminal Bush is now actually invited to speak at a memorial site. If that's not the greatest desecration to the memory of 9/11 victims, I don't know what is. The subconscious message there, no matter what he stammers out, is "it can't be Bush or republicon fault, he's the sorrowful speaker". Bush may as well go to a grave, pull down his pants and defecate on it. To me that's what his presence there symbolizes. But that's not how most people, 20 years later, will think. Especially the loyal Hate Radio crowd.

The "big deal" is integral to their plan to get away with it.

[lookyhereyou]

163. hear hear

always telling us what to think ... but not not teaching how to

actually think.

[Jon King]

48. One more case of rewriting American history.

9-11 has become just another sick joke of attempting to rewrite an embarrassing chapter of American failure. Bush had the report of Bin Laden going to attack and ignored it. Then we reacted like idiots.

The proper reaction would have been to investigate the reason our intelligence agencies and the President were so disconnected. Then access where the terrorists were from and where they trained, which was Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. Then put pressure on Saudi Arabia to help root out the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Then spend the trillions to improve out infrastructure and security at home.

Instead we allowed the military-industrial-political machine to get our population all whooped up to go attack Iraq which had nothing to do with 9-11. Instead of steering all that young guy energy into paid for college for technology training, we got them riled up to join the dang military and go get blown up.

Then pour more stupid onto the stupid by going to Afghanistan when history told the story of how it was literally impossible to tame that country.

9-11 should be a day of mourning for the families of those killed. Just like it is a day of mourning if your person died in a car crash or any other cause.

But all this nonsense on cable news is ridiculous. Its an embarrassing chapter of a failed response by the country.

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. Posts like these are why I come to DU.

I lived across the river and watched the towers fall that day. I have been deliberately avoiding any media so as not to encounter any Republican performance sorrow.

I really like your idea of "First Responders Day." I had an eye exam two days later. The doctor kept excusing himself to go do something and then come back. After four or five times he apologized and explained first responders doing rescue and recovery work were coming in to get their eyes flushed before going right back to work. I got chills.

[Bucky]

104. That's a great example of real community service

There's people like these fire fighters and your doctor who make their lives about making the world a better place. Thank you for that

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

50. We, we, we....no, it is YOU who want something else, it happened, it changed the world, its History

[Bucky]

145. ...all the way home

😉

[leftstreet]

52. DURec

[llmart]

58. Outstanding essay!

Thank you for so eloquently stating what a lot of us feel. It is never psychologically healthy to dwell on such a horrific event. Learn from it, yes. But every single year the media wants us to walk around with sad faces about something that happened twenty years ago.

I'm old enough to clearly remember JFK's assassination and enough time has now passed that there's sometimes a mere mention of it on the news, but for the most part people my age don't go around somber all day long because we witnessed the event. I'm quite sure that over the decades the same will happen with 9/11. There is a whole generation of adults that weren't even born when it happened. Many of them have no real feelings about the event even if it was taught in their history classes.

[heckles65]

59. 9/11 is the birthday of a dear friend

It is HER birthday I associate the day with, not some henious crime.

[yaesu]

60. I mistrust MSM so much that I don't believe their for profit tear campaign every time there is

a tragedy. 911 was a criminal act by Saudi citizens, religious cult members. It wasn't an act of war, there was zero good reason to destroy 2 countries over it but as long as massive profits are made going to war we will see it happening again.

[BlueJac]

61. Well said!

[Ferrets are Cool]

65. +1

[treestar]

66. I hated the idea that was out there about making it a holiday

And the idea that we come together for tragedy only invites tragedy.

There was huge overreaction, and the media fed it, and the Adminstration of that time has PNACers who wanted to take advantage of it.

The people who did it do not hate us for our freedoms. They just wanted us out of the Middle East.

[NewHendoLib]

67. superb reasoning and writing. thank you.

[jalan48]

72. American's love their flag waving and jingoism. Remember the Alamo!

[BannonsLiver]

73. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect that it go unrecognized.

[Bucky]

124. I agree

It's the obsession I'm troubled by. The grief for ritual's sake, from the maudlin spectacle of placing 7000 American flags in a field to the grotesque republishing of pictures of the bodies falling from the burning towers. As someone upthread calls it, our culture is self indulging in grief porn.

Before in our history the tradition had been to transform the grief of history into resolves to uphold positive values and move forward. The displays of remembrance today seem determined not to ever heal, but to stay rooted in the tragedy of that one moment. It's not healthy.

[lark]

74. Even my socially liberal sister is getting sucked into this.

Saying at least we were united. I said united by a lie for rw political purposes and Cheney's thirst for oil profits, so it wasn't worth anything except to kill millions of innocent people for no good reason at all. Nothing good came from 9/11 - not one damn thing - only bad and worse.

[Ford_Prefect]

75. Since 1946 the number of people put in harm's way by US foreign policy is truly staggering.

To view September 11 out of that context is absurd and unrealistic. To ignore the enormous shift in warfare as foreign policy in this century is to do likewise. To ignore the effect of powerful 3rd parties and "allies" on our politics and foreign policy is irresponsible and dishonest.

To accept the deaths of thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan as a cost of defending freedom is an outright lie, as is glorifying the deaths of veterans murdered in that cause. The theft of our taxes spent on endless war is still robbing every American of the better future we all have paid for. Our currently distressed democracy is at risk because of the events leading to and from that day, and those who engineered them.

IMO all the people who died on September 11 were sacrificed to inflame and excuse the events which followed...as the 1st responders who are dying now were.

[orangecrush]

78. Talk about throwing gas on the fires of the right

OP's like this do exactly that.

[Bucky]

108. That's why I posted in GD, a left-of-center forum...

... instead of that DINO-toxic right-wing cesspool of the DU Lounge

[orangecrush]

142. Wow

[calimary]

79. Why do I just want to think about (and obsess on) anything ELSE today...

That’s all I’ve got. I’m sorry.

Don’t want to relive it.

Don’t want to dwell on it.

Don’t want to steep in it all weekend.

Glad I have other responsibilities today.

[DownriverDem]

80. I agree

It was shockingly sad and I won't forget. I'll reflect on it, but I will not watch it today over and over again. A woman on our local news who lost her son that day, told how every year on 9/11 it's like ripping a scab off. I believe I understand. BTW we do not have all the facts about that day. Why do folks in other counties believe it was an inside job? Something was not right about it and the way the towers fell.

[DallasNE]

81. We Even Went So Far As To

Build a vanity skyscraper. None of this has to do with the event on 9/11. It is all about using the event for political purposes. And it started with the Bush bull horn speech at the site several days later. The single battle that happened that day happened in the sky over Pennsylvania as unarmed passengers took back control of that hijacked plane and saved lives.

[cate94]

83. I think your idea

About making it a “First Responders Day” is brilliant.

[Bucky]

111. Not my idea

But yes, the people who step up when there's trouble make the world safer for the rest of us.

Who would've thought before last year that that would include grocery store workers?

[JCMach1]

88. I don't know which is worse, the OP's take, or the RW overblown hypocritical

Take.

End of the day both takes truly don't get it, so yeah this afternoon I will stand and honor those who died trying to save lives and in memory of those brutally murdered.

No MSM needed, no RW BS needed and no wars of revenge ever needed...

[Wingus Dingus]

89. I thought we made too big a deal of it when it happened.

Still feel the same. Remember the dead, get revenge, prevent the next attack, and then move on. We really like to wallow in it for some reason, and yet most of us don't have a deep personal loss connected to it.

[LanternWaste]

97. I think most Americans will meet the day in what way seems best to them.

As I will do as well.

Given the lack of any objective data otherwise, I'm not in any place to judge their reactions, their feelings, or their memories as any better or worse than my own.

No doubt, you and yours are much better placed to do so.

[Tracer]

98. Bucky speaks for me.

911 will always be there, but there is no need to wallow in it.

[FelineOverlord]

99. Never

Every single town in my area had multiple people who died in the Twin Towers that die.

Every single town in my area has at least a small memorial to those who died.

Those days were absolutely terrifying. New York looked like a war zone with tanks rolling down the streets.

We are not "moving on" from 9/11 just like we will never "move on" from January 6th.

We're not going to diminish the shock, fear and terror felt that day just because some people feel uncomfortable.

As a matter of fact, I have never been the same since that day. My sense of safety and security were forever gone.

[Takket]

100. Can I ask what specifically is going on today that you don't approve of?

Is it documentaries recounting the events?

Is it the readings of the names at WTC site?

Moment of silence at the time the plane's struck or tower's collapsed?

If you had your idealized version of what today would look like, what would that be? We have Memorial Day and veterans day to honor the military and yet we still have a Pearl Harbor day. If there is a "First Responders day" does it take the place of 9/11 memorial events? Or does it happen on a completely separate day? And if so what happens on 9/11?

I for one do not oppose remembrances of the events of 9/11, even though I do not watch any of them. There is a documentary on Netflix not just about 9/11 but about all that came before and after it. I'm interested, but have not watched it. Maybe I will someday. But I lived it. Maybe I don't recall exactly if the first plane to hit the towers was an AA of United flight, or what number it was, but I remember everything about how it felt. I don't need a documentary to remember what happened. Watching the videos of the collapse feels a bit like missing a love one that has passed on, so I'm going to go to their grave and dig up their bones, so I can be with them...

But we cannot dishonor history, or the significance of what happened either. I doubt anyone that survived the Holocaust needs a documentary on Netflix to tell them what it was like, but History SHOULD tell others what is was like. I'm sure some that survived the Holocaust never want to talk about it or hear anything about it, yet I'm sure they are glad there are museums people can go to. Others that survived the Holocaust have no problem talking about it, because they want their children and grandchildren to know the tale, and understand the importance of making sure these events never occur again.

Likewise the videos and tales of 9/11 will surely spawn anger and hatred in SOME people that were born long after those events took place, but that information is out there, free and available to everyone. History is scary, enraging, and frightening at times, but it defines our culture and our lives.

I remember watching the remake of Roots a few years ago. And 12 Years a Slave later. They made me sick. I felt awful. I'm angered at how this could ever have been allowed to happen. And that's how these movies are supposed to make you feel. As a child I read about slavery in a textbook. I knew it was wrong, but I didn't FEEL it until I connected with characters in a movie. We are emotional creatures. But we all process those emotions differently. A Democrat sees 9/11 as a day to appreciate all the work that went into saving lives that day, and honoring those that did not make it. A Rethug sees today as another reminder as to why Muslims can never be trusted, and they extend that same hate to blacks, Asians... and everyone else that doesn't look like them.

Eventually people like me that lived through it, and our children that grew up after 9/11, will be dead and gone, and the generations that come after it aren't going to have an emotional connection to it anymore, and then it will forever be up to history to remind us of the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all. I think then you might see the transformation you think is needed now as to what 9/11 looks like. I for one have never shed a tear for the lives lost at Pearl Harbor. Not because they weren't important, or it wasn't horrific, but because it is not something i LIVED through, or even my parents lived through, to tell me the tale.

I think the families and First Responders should have conversations, in private (this is not a spectacle for the public to discuss on social media), with our political leaders as to what year 21 looks like now that we have passed this milestone anniversary. If they would like to "move on" and/or change the nature of what 9/11 looks like, so be it. If they want to continue reliving all the events of the day so they stay fresh in everyone's minds, so be that as well. They all lived through it and ultimately are the victims. People like you and me posting on a message board are just passive observers to everything that happened.

Whatever they think, so be it... I won't be watching either way, but their wishes should be respected.

[Bucky]

107. Thank you for asking

The playing of TAPS in our school halls. The moments of silence. The reading of the names. We didn't ever do that for Pearl Harbor. The all-business-stops while we revere the moment of the national humiliation. This is how I see the anniversary being marked.

The only other time of the year we as a society collectively do that level of collectiveness is Christmas. 9/11 is literally as big as Christmas. Just obviously without the red tag sales. This is all out of proportion to what the importance of the event itself is. We need to be commemorating "Hysterical Overreaction to 9/11 Day." That matters far far more to American history than that one tragedy.

The way we mark this one event, I believe as a social studies teacher, very much "dishonors history" by focusing on our wounded national pride and victim status. I think it primes us as a political entity to repeat the same mistakes that preceded and followed the attacks.

[LeftInTX]

114. Agree with this paragraph:

Eventually people like me that lived through it, and our children that grew up after 9/11, will be dead and gone, and the generations that come after it aren't going to have an emotional connection to it anymore, and then it will forever be up to history to remind us of the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all. I think then you might see the transformation you think is needed now as to what 9/11 looks like. I for one have never shed a tear for the lives lost at Pearl Harbor. Not because they weren't important, or it wasn't horrific, but because it is not something i LIVED through, or even my parents lived through, to tell me the tale.

It's the emotional connection. I never shed a tear over Pearl Harbor and never felt anything from it because I wasn't born.

[uponit7771]

158. The bullshit explanations of why we were attacked for starters. J6 is WAAAY more of a defining ...

... moment for the country than 9/11 IMHO seeing the country didn't have to deal with a text insurrection on 9/12 against plurality.

We had to deal with some assholes and their state sponsors and then used that as an excuse to grab resources world wide.

[electric_blue68]

178. Very interesting, nuanced post...

and asking the families about how they want ti go forward from now on might be a really good idea.

I think we should always have something. That's bc I'm a NYC'r, I worked in Tower 2 (South) decades earlier, and grew to love those towers. We lost people workers, visitors, fire and police etc

[Make7]

101. People's experiences that day differ greatly and will affect how they choose to memorialize the day.

As a nation, it seems that on some level the remembrance of 9/11 is attempting to provide moral justification for our foreign actions. The phrase "Ground Zero" was not a random choice, it was meant to convey that it all started at that point. Which is not remotely true. America has had a very belligerent foreign policy post-WWII. Most of the blowback had occurred overseas and didn't really register with the public the way the large scale domestic attacks did that day.

I remember thinking that 9/11 might open people's eyes to what was being done in their name by their government and corporations around the world. Surely anyone wanting to understand why it happened would look into the reasons outlined by the perpetrators and discover our county isn't always altruistic in its foreign endeavors. Needless to say, I was disappointed - "Ground Zero" it was, and remains, for far too many.

[Poiuyt]

103. I don't think we're reveling in the pain and loss as much as it gives us a chance to

reinforce our national jingoism and hatred of Muslims.

[Bucky]

105. Every year on 9/11 t our school's ROTC plays traps in the hall way

The kids get all somber and reverent. There's no bigotry behind it. It's a public high school and we hit pretty hard on the anti prejudice messaging.

But I teach seniors who were born back when My Name Is Earl was on the air. To them it's about behaving appropriately during a ritual act of somberness. By the time I teach the unit on US foreign policy, there's not a lot of jingo left in them.

[traitorsgalore]

106. The defining thing about 9/11 is it, and the Bush crooks, seperated Americans

That's when "with us or against us" started. It when repukes started calling democrats "traitors". It's when the $300 million a day of war money/theft of taxpayer money began. It's when torture became an American value. It's when WMD propaganda began. It's when religious war defined the GOPukes, fighting "the axis of evil". It's when the nazi-like "Homeland Security" began. It when "code orange terror alerts" we used by the Bush admin to terrorize Americans on a daily basis.

I saw the bullshit on TV yesterday claiming 9/11 brought Americans together; it did nothing of the sort. It's when repukes began becoming the American taliban, domestic terrorists who claimed to be the moral/religious leaders of the world.

[LeftInTX]

113. Sorry, I disagree

Pearl Harbor is also remembered and I've seen numerous specials on "The Day That Will Live in Infamy"

However they are different: Peal Harbor was not shown live on TV. It was mostly transmitted via radio and newspapers. Although there was footage, it's B&W and wasn't seen in masses until it was available at theater newsreels several weeks later. Pearl Harbor was an attack on our military. Aftermath: WWII


9/11 happened live on TV and we all watched it live. It happened to civilians. It was much more traumatizing to the public. As the saying it goes, "If it bleeds, it leads" Aftermath: A big f'ing mess

Shortly after 9/11 my dad and I had to run an errand together. I was yacking about 9/11. He interrupts and says, "We had Pearl Harbor". I felt like he was minimizing my feelings. He was just shy of 12 when Pearl Harbor happened and lived in Wisconsin.

50 years from now, 9/11 hype will die down. The aftermath of 9/11 is not the best subject of newsreels, yet the aftermath was Pearl Harbor was.

Believe or not 9/11 actually helped me be more accepting of Muslims. My family is Armenian and the Turks killed a bunch of our family in 1915. They killed over a million Armenians. I grew up believing that they did this because they were Muslims and wanted to rid the world of Christians and Jews. Years of stereotypes seemed to reinforce that belief: Plane hijacks, War in Israel (it was framed that the Arabs were the problem. Additionally, I did not know that many of the Arabs were also Christian), Sirhan Sirhan (well he was an Christian, but what did I know. I just thought he was Muslim), Iranian Revolution (I knew a lot of Armenian exiles from that one), the PLO, Lebanese Civil War (another wave of Armenian exiles). Our NATO agreement with Turkey made my blood boil. All through the 90's, I would write my congressman letters about Armenian issues and he refused to acknowledge them.

Before 9/11, I was convinced that Muslims and any other religion could not co-exist. My pre-911 attitudes about Muslims were like alot of people's post-9/11 Islamophobia. Immediately after 9/11, it was really sky high. I was like, "I knew it"

Bush did an excellent job of explaining that, "Islam is not the enemy". I learned more about Muslim communities and made peace with myself. The peace happened within days and I watched the memorial service at the National Cathedral. It was amazing how 40 years of my attitude changed within days.

Of course the aftermath of 9/11 is a different story and is very long, messy and horrific. We had to go after Bin Laden, but there was no reason to invade Iraq. Middle Eastern politics will always be messy and tribal. We need good intelligence, but I believe part of the problem was that in the immediate aftermath was the Bush admin tapped too many Christian Arabs as translators and advisors. He already had the Neocons on staff prior to 9/11. Rumsfeld chose to ignore the CIA in the aftermath. Dealing with terror is not solved via traditional war. We are not dealing with nation states.

[malthaussen]

127. In real time, as the attack was happening, I said...

.. "Cue the Pearl Harbor references in 3..2..1." Turns out I was right -- in fact, I barely finished the countdown before they started.

-- Mal

[PatSeg]

125. Thank you so much Bucky

I've wanted to put my feelings into words for a long time and you have done it so eloquently. Whenever I try to explain how I feel, I am afraid that it sounds like I am unsympathetic, but you summed it up so well with, "I think we need to quit reveling in the pain and loss of September 11, 2001."

The world has seen plenty of tragedies since 9/11. Perhaps we should focus on other profound losses, like the 660,000 Americans who died from COVID.

[ymetca]

128. Speaking of memorials...

I live in Oklahoma City, and the Murrah Building bombing fills the local media similarly every "anniversary".

When relatives come from out of town and want to go see the memorial, I never go with them. I don't want to gawk at just how pointless and stupid it all was.

For many of the same people who were appalled at what happened here went on to vote for monsters, perpetrating more monstrous acts of destruction.

They would not listen, they're not listening still
Perhaps they never will

- Don McLean, Starry, starry night

[crickets]

129. Well said, Bucky. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[station agent]

130. I don't think we're even close to being right about what 9/11 says about us

It was a terrible day where elements of out imperialist history returned home to exact a horrible price on many people who had very little to no say in charting that course.

[Pacifist Patriot]

133. Agreed

[Raine]

131. I don't agree. nt

[Oneironaut]

132. I agree. It's been 20 years.

9/11 is a historical event at this point. This may seem harsh, but wallowing about 9/11 (unless if you were a victim or knew someone who was) is kind of over the top 20 years later.

Do we have MSM televised ceremonies honoring the victims of Pearl Harbor? No - we honor them historically.

Even more stupid is that politicians are still using 9/11 to divide us, 20 years later. We as a nation need to get over it and move on. Honor the victims as history.

[nini]

134. The United States has become a reality show in many ways.

The sensationalism and politicalization of this day fits right in. The media loves this crap. Remembering the victims is an afterthought anymore.

[Gore1FL]

136. I am with you 100%

Were we still freaking out over Pearl Harbor in 1961?

It's one thing to honor the dead of that day, especially or those who lost someone. I think we are doing quite another thing. We, as a nation, seem to have this unhealthy fascination for reliving it, dwelling on it, wallowing in it, and otherwise clinging to it.

What's different other than the coverage of the two events?

[Strelnikov_]

138. Ya think? n/t

[Texaswitchy]

139. I have not watched anything today about 9-11.

I cannot.

I have virus to deal with and a sick housemate.

The kids are leaving for Canada in two weeks.

There is only so much of me to go around.

Enough sadness for me.

[brooklynite]

140. The Brooklyn Heights promenade was packed tonight...

…with people looking at the tribute lights and reflection n 9/11.

Apparently NYers don’t think “to by a deal” is being made of it.

[LeftInTX]

148. Yes, one of the world's largest cities was attacked. NYC is #2 for Global Power Index

And when I was growing up it was the largest city in the world, but then it was eclipsed by Tokyo and Mexico City.
It is still the largest city the US.

I wasn't around for Pearl Harbor, but a Naval Base on a US territory was attacked that day. It's apples and oranges.

[electric_blue68]

152. This, too. TY (born & bread NYC'r)

[electric_blue68]

151. this. I forgot about The Tribute in Lights...

One of the most beautifully conceived tributes ever!

I was down there to see them at least 8+ times from 2002 - 2013? (I'm an NYC'r)

[JustADumbFireman]

141. JustADumbFireman agrees

It's been maudlinized and made into a religion The lies and propaganda started to be disseminated from the very beginning ("they hate us for or freedoms&quot and the USA used the event to embark on more of its war crimes, euphemistically referred to as "the war on terror".

One way to honor the lives of those lost would be for any leaders of influence to exhort current-day Americans to come together and support each other, as the country largely did in the days following the attacks, rather than behaving like hateful and spoiled middle-schoolers. Another would be to finally PUNISH SAUDI ARABIA. A third would be to have a REAL commission investigate - and in particular to investigate Dick Cheney.

And why do we trivialize the event by calling it "nine-eleven"? By analogy, we should refer to the Pearl Harbor attack as "twelve-seven".

[nightwing1240]

147. It's called 911 because that is the number we dial for emergency help

[Bucky]

165. Yes, this

It really was a horrible, traumatic day for the country but most especially for those who had to live through that violence -- and of course the many who did not. And we should not forget the many more who got second lost their lives by being exposed to the toxic debris.

But it's a reminder to us to work to improve the world, make it safer for humanity. It's not an excuse to throw it 20-year GWOT temper tantrum and lose our own humanity in the process

[nightwing1240]

146. A question for those that agree with this, please

Who among you would wish to inform the 2,958 families that lost a loved one on that tragic day (not counting the 19 hijackers) or the 6000, that were injured as well as fireman, policeman, first responders etc, that we make too big a deal of what happened on 9/11/2001?

Very few are left that lived through Pearl Harbor, but we still commemorate and pay tribute. That's is what this is as well.

I will agree the MSM does go overboard, but to just cast that day aside as if it did not occur, that is just heartless.

Please leave the political stuff out of this, that is not what should be intended. It is about remembering those we lost that terrible day.

Funerals do suck, I agree, but it is a reality we all must deal with.

And please, this is not in any way denigrating the OP, it is my own opinion and I would hazard to guess, I am not alone.

[electric_blue68]

154. you're not alone...

I can do w/o the jingoism...

not sure if the MSN goes over board. I do tend to get
my news from local public radio first, yes NPR, too , CBS.
PBS if my TV was working.

[JI7]

162. The OP didn't say anything about ignoring and casting the day aside

it was about how we deal with it and contrasted it with other horrible things . Like the holocaust which was far worse and how that is remembered in a different way than we do with 9/11 which has mostly resulted in us doing more harm .

[Lithos]

150. It was a major day in history

But, I think i do agree with you in the sense that the wrong aspects are being revered and the important lessons ignored by a false veneer of "celebration".

L-

[electric_blue68]

155. I never get a sense that it's a "celebration"...

it's a memorial.

[Lithos]

170. There are a few who have turned into a mini 4th of July

More of an excuse to wave the flag than remember the loss. Trump's pay per view, etc.

[electric_blue68]

171. Yeah, I'd agree with you about those people

[Withywindle]

153. I'm still thinking about a few hundred votes in Florida in 2000

I really don't think Al Gore would have ignored an urgent intelligence memo about an imminent major terrorist attack on the US in August 2001. I really don't think he would have been surrounded by a cabinet full of war profiteers who were drooling for an excuse for endless war and encouraged a feckless failboat president not to worry about it, it's ok, golf all you want. I think if the rightful winner took office that January, there is a very much not-zero chance that the twin towers would still be there, and people killed that day able to live out their lives.

(This is also what set the precedent for people of the Trumpers' ilk claiming that every election they lose is fraudulent)

I absolutely do mourn the people who died on that day - and I believe they were killed by malicious negligence of people who profited from their deaths. I think our collective grief and horror was exploited for propaganda, and still is to this day.

[uponit7771]

159. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 and now we have a text book insurrection against democracy going on. AQ was ..

... never a threat to democracy world wide and being told it was is part of the Bush admins big fuckin lie.

The thousand stabs into the concept of plurality the USSC gives when it errors on the side of LESS people voting should be memorialized more than the lies that are being told as to why OBL set out to attack America.

[Loki Liesmith]

161. Oh dear god the hot takes are a-flowing.

[lonely bird]

164. A few things

It didn’t “change history”. It is part of history.

It does underscore that physical war attacks on the Western Hemisphere are difficult without high technology. Different things can impact the Western Hemisphere much more easily such as COVID, economic impacts such as kleptocratic financialization or psychological impacts irrational belief structures that gin up anger and violence.

The key problem, imo, is that there is no “we”. Yeah, we all saw the polls showing support for one of the dumbest presidents ever to hold that office. But eventually that support devolved into hatred and “you’re either us or you’re for the terrorists” if any discussion was even hinted at.

So, if the issue how to commemorate the day then maybe one option is to reflect on how “we” treat each other, to remember how we treat immigrants and those who live in other countries. To remember to not beat our chests, to show humility, to actual try and become a “we” throughout our lives as opposed to only when some catastrophe hits and even then only when a catastrophe impacts in certain ways. Look at how there is no “we” right now in the middle of a pandemic. Look at how there is no “we” in response to violence done to ourselves by ourselves whether by guns or by political economic actions.

The entire 9/11 anniversary commemoration highlights just how far we are from even coming within sight of our alleged values as the “United” States of America.

Btw, it also didn’t change the world. There has been terrorism on scales much larger than this throughout especially recent history. From the terror-famine of the ‘30’s to the Great Leap Forward to the Cultural Revolution to the Disappeared in the Southern Cone to Rwanda and on and on we have seen terrorism. What allegedly made it worse is that it happened to this country where we have been programmed that such was unthinkable. Yet we already had it here in the form of slavery and Jim Crow as well as the internment.

Introspection is required on 9/11 and not just about those who died and those who responded. But then we have never been big on introspection.

[randr]

166. Personally my life changed a great deal following 9/11

Just the inconvenience of air travel is huge. I can't imagine what the Arab community has gone thru. A twenty year long war has impacted thousands and thousands of us.
My call on it is that we have yet to address the causes and change what really needs to be changed to avoid the same mistakes again.

[lonely bird]

169. Personal change is one thing

Changing the world? No. We have had a garrison empire for multiple decades. Terrorism has existed since man has existed.

Mrs. Bird flew with the choir she was in while getting her degree to Israel. That was in the early ‘80’s. When they went through customs each person was matched with their luggage and the traveler with their luggage went to a room where one person inspected the luggage/contents and another stood there with a machine gun.

The so-called GWOT happened because we let it happen. There was no real, deep discussion as to cause and consequences regarding 9/11. There was far too much knee-jerk violence. The law of unintended consequences punched us in the face.

Has US foreign policy radically changed? Has the consumption altered? Sure, the military boots on the grounds has suffered as have their families. But the military-industrial-university-congressional complex is chunking right along. The necro-belief of exceptionalism is alive and well.

The glossing over is virtually complete. In 20+ years 9/11 will be a footnote as the short term memory of the country pushes it to the back of the mind. No big discussion about what role there should be for the US in the world. No discussion of interactions with other countries. Jingoism, chest-thumping, USA! USA! USA! will continue.

On a national level these discussions do not occur because the politicians and the power wielded don’t want them to occur.

[Progressive dog]

167. It has been only twenty years.

There are still deaths being caused by those attacks. In fifty years or less, the "revelry" will fade to something like our remembrance of December seventh, provided that new major terrorist attacks do not arise from the same source.

[electric_blue68]

181. I disagree, and if you hadn't visited NYC before The Towers fell, or ...

have yet to visit the Memorial...

I'm a born & bred NYC'r.
When The Towers we're nearly complete the jokes were "The Towers were the boxes the real buildings
came in!" We laughed. I was in Art College.

They did however become a great way to tell directions especially in the less grid like areas of The West Village, parts of Tribecca, and Lower Manhattan.

Little did I know that I'd work there for 50 weeks Sept '80-Mid Aug '81 on the 73rd flr NE Corner office. The views were glorious!
I started to fall in love with them because their white color, and long glass windows would reflect the various colors of the day. Because I picked up forms of animism when I was a kid these buildings each had a spirit (please, no comments from our DU aetheists). Luckily the agency moved to Brooklyn long before 9/11!

We were relatively lucky that the terrorists' struck before the building was filled up with the day's workers (about 20,000+ people per each big tower).

These towers were massive! You could see this when standing near them, or even now standing at one side of one of the two tower footprint memorial fountains. You'll see how little the people look on the other side. It is a deeply poignant, and beautiful Memorial.

NYC is one of the World Cities; to have The Towers (which had workers from the Tri-State area) - attacked, burst into flames, and smoke then collapse (with all the horror of trying to escape at first, rescue, then recovery for months on end, and all the continuing effects to this day of the people effected)...
this was/is still a big fuckin' deal!!!
I was in Europe during the '16 commemoration. I tuned in to see some of it. Unfortunately I also was scrolling on line. Unfortunate because while I'd heard that our media censored the photos I'd forgotten. So I saw for the first the full horror if that day in uncensored pictures! You are
Very Lucky if you haven't seen any - especially by accident!

My South Tower former office would have been about 2 floors below where the 2nd plane emerged.

If the majority of families want to end this way of comerorating the(ir) dead, I'd bow to their wishes.

I reject the jingoistic part.
Since I started having mixed feelings about the flag from the Vietnam War ('67), and the Civil Rights Movement... I couldn't wear a flag pin after 9/11. I made a very fancy red, white, and blue lanyard/gimp piece I hung from my tote bag.

I supported the Afghanistan War - thinking back we probably should have left after Osama was killed.
I protested here, and in DC against the Iraq War.

I don't watch the whole ceremony as I did the first time, but I still tune in here and there. And I miss my towers.

[Withywindle]

182. This is a beautiful post and a beautiful tribute

Couldn't respond to it right on the day, but I came back to it a little later.

I went to college in upstate NY for a while and I lived in the city off and on in the late 80s and early 90s. I still remember coming up from VA by Greyhound bus or Amtrak...you'd be going through the Jersey flats, and whatever hour of the night it was, I always made sure to be awake for that first glimpse, off in the distance, of that very distinctive light on the North Tower's antenna, visible for miles and miles. It always gave me this feeling of absolutely electric excitement - almost there, almost there.

For part of a summer I was a volunteer at the South St Seaport Museum. I worked on the Pioneer, a restored 19th century schooner. We did harbor trips for tour groups, and it could also be rented out for office parties and weddings and such. Sometimes the crew would take it out almost by ourselves at night. The view from the Harbor was beyond belief: the lights, the bridges, those two massive towers...

I had a share in Tribeca for a while, with an older woman artist who had a semi-legal loft since the 70s. I have a picture of the WTC that i took out of the bathroom window.

The last time I saw them, I went to NYC (from Chicago, where I live now) for a friend's wedding. They had the ceremony on the roof of the studio of a photographer they knew in Chelsea (Not advised, on a roof with no shade at midday in August, lol). They have the Towers in the background of all their wedding photos. This was in August 2001.

[electric_blue68]

183. Aww, thanks...

Ah the NJ flats. Most of our relatives lived in Northern NJ, but occasionally when I was a kid, teen we'd head towards middle, upper southern NJ. Plus I took bus trips to Philadelphia, and DC so I know it. 😁

On the highway down there was very unusual geographic feature. A distinctivate spike of rock 🤔 at least about twice the height of the highway.
Off and on the past bunch of years I've spent time looking up research, maps... and while I never found anything for that particular spike; it turns out there was some volcanic activity X millions years back. That spike is an old volcano plug of lava! NJ - who would of thunk!
When a friend and I were on our way to Monument Valley (Northern Arizona in the Navajo Nation) we got to a straight road, crested a hill - and suddenly there was a thousand foot high lava plug called Agatha peak.
He stopped the car so we could both step out and take photos.
At some point I must of thought... "hmm" could this be a "toddler" version of this massive rock.

Back to NYC - And you'd make if you went this way the big circular off ramp into the Mid Town Tunnel. The panoply of Manhattan skyscrapers whichever time of day, or night.

I love the South Street Seaport. I'm sure I've seen that schooner. 👍 How wonderful to sometines take it out mostly by yourselves for a quiet and majestic sail.

Ah, Tribeca. I spent time a whole bunch of times walking through, occasionally eating there.

What wonderful wedding photos (woah, 8/21)!

(Heh, Aug unshaded rooftop wedding. I hope the cold drinks & water didn't run out, at least too soon!)

.Thank you for a lovely post yourself!