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Travel Hat

(117 posts)
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 01:52 PM Sep 2021

The largest loss of life event ever in US history

During the 1918-1919 flu pandemic, the official number was 675,000 deaths. Thought some estimates go up to 850,000.

The US Civil War deaths were 620,00. But again, some estimates go as high as 750,000.

World War II had 407,316 deaths.

World War I had 116,516 deaths.

These are the four largest loss of life events ever in US history.

Around 660,000 US citizens have died from Covid-19 so far.

If we go by the official numbers, by the end of this week we will experienced the single largest loss of life event in US history.
If we use the larger numbers, according to IHME, we could eclipse them by the end of this year.

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The largest loss of life event ever in US history (Original Post) Travel Hat Sep 2021 OP
According to some articles the real # of dead could already be @ 1,000,000 Americans. Botany Sep 2021 #1
+1,000,000 WA-03 Democrat Sep 2021 #2
As someone who has watched the numbers meticulously since the beginning Otto_Harper Sep 2021 #3
Agreed 100% PCIntern Sep 2021 #6
Agree ... especially if states have a governor like DeSantis in Florida. RKP5637 Sep 2021 #7
sound's like he's not to well received ? he might have to move to a third world country ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #14
Wish he would. He's the one the GOP would like to have run in 2024 if they RKP5637 Sep 2021 #18
very much so ! negligent homicide should be considered on all republicans ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #24
Republicans are certainly a special throw-back breed. RKP5637 Sep 2021 #28
Negligent homicide is not severe enough rambler_american Sep 2021 #63
First I've heard of that pandr32 Sep 2021 #112
Not negligent. Deliberate, premeditated genocide. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #101
that's better yet ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #114
I never understood why "conservatives" were so opposed to universal health care. plimsoll Sep 2021 #9
Profits. Kaiser gave Nixon the idea for profit based HMO. This right after Johnson started Medicare Tommymac Sep 2021 #36
You are correct. It was Nixon and Kaiser that steered America toward healthcare for profit... Raster Sep 2021 #102
In fact, there is a quote, not sure who said it, I think it was Nixon... Raster Sep 2021 #103
One reason. Because WE are for it. They will die to own liberals. Ferrets are Cool Sep 2021 #48
That's mainly US conservatives IronLionZion Sep 2021 #52
That's US conservatives' fear: that liberal policies would be proven to work. n/t Beartracks Sep 2021 #59
See Social Security and Medicare, and even Obamacare IronLionZion Sep 2021 #61
absolutely correct they are an under count. Travel Hat Sep 2021 #23
God only knows the #s of dead early on that died of Botany Sep 2021 #46
I know for a fact that it killed my mom... 2naSalit Sep 2021 #86
I feel fairly certian I had C-19 in late Dec. 2019 & all of Jan. 2020 Botany Sep 2021 #98
I'm pretty sure you're right. 2naSalit Sep 2021 #104
Trump was told of the coming Pandemic in the fall of 2019 and what did he do? Botany Sep 2021 #105
Yup. 2naSalit Sep 2021 #106
And in the winter of 2020 Kushner & Pompeo shipped 18 tons of PPE to China* which helped .... Botany Sep 2021 #109
They had federal agents confiscating PPE... 2naSalit Sep 2021 #111
Yup! And He had states competing with each other over PPE too. Botany Sep 2021 #113
That's why they qualify... 2naSalit Sep 2021 #115
Welcome to DU, Otto_Harper. calimary Sep 2021 #91
You have done a great job malaise Sep 2021 #107
Thanks, malaise! calimary Sep 2021 #110
That seems to be a very plausible scenario set out by a professional. BobTheSubgenius Sep 2021 #93
I would put everything I have on Florida's numbers dewsgirl Sep 2021 #4
Spell check, don't hate me but littlemissmartypants Sep 2021 #5
K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2021 #19
I think everyone understood it. Nt USALiberal Sep 2021 #42
Nice to know that you live on a sofa inside my head littlemissmartypants Sep 2021 #72
Thanx! Botany Sep 2021 #116
Thank you. ❤ littlemissmartypants Sep 2021 #117
Yep. Obama and others got us ready for.... paleotn Sep 2021 #11
yepper , TFG & republican's put all in the dumpster ! all of this is on the republican's ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #16
The Hot Zone was a real eye opener for .me. CottonBear Sep 2021 #78
This message was self-deleted by its author Jetheels Sep 2021 #70
Well don't die mad, it was not just "they" that did it to Hillary. Jetheels Sep 2021 #71
Tim Kaine. ShazzieB Sep 2021 #94
+1 uponit7771 Sep 2021 #84
Yeah, but you'd want to use comparative percentages Sympthsical Sep 2021 #8
In real terms, it's like nuking Portland, OR or Nashville, TN.... paleotn Sep 2021 #15
Absolute numbers are good too. plimsoll Sep 2021 #17
The reason I did it that way is I have a Maga nephew. Travel Hat Sep 2021 #25
I only converted because I was interested Sympthsical Sep 2021 #29
Don't your percentages rely on calculations wnylib Sep 2021 #56
Percentages are more meaningful in this situation, I think. NH Ethylene Sep 2021 #50
Percentages are the right way to compare historical events, given a rising population Klaralven Sep 2021 #77
Percent is interesting & telling, but I'm not sure it's the most valid when used alone. NullTuples Sep 2021 #85
So unnecessary too. Joinfortmill Sep 2021 #10
Well, thanks for brightening my day. SergeStorms Sep 2021 #12
Thanks Slobfather malaise Sep 2021 #13
yet the slobfather is still walking free on the street's ? don't make sense ? monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #21
No sense at all malaise Sep 2021 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author malaise Sep 2021 #27
Trump's most famous words/lie..."It's a hoax"...He won't ever live that down...just as important... Stuart G Sep 2021 #31
There needs to be consequences malaise Sep 2021 #33
There needs to be consequences malaise Sep 2021 #34
Totally Agree."Lock him up" 1min,52secs, Trump says "Virus is a hoax..We have lost nobody to virus" Stuart G Sep 2021 #38
I doubt "reporters" would ever ask the HOAX question. They are too chickenshit. HUAJIAO Sep 2021 #49
Not all reporters are "chickenshit." Some will ask that question, and at debates he will be reminded Stuart G Sep 2021 #53
I hope you are right and I am wrong. HUAJIAO Sep 2021 #54
He will be remembered saying "It's a hoax," by us on DU and too few others. Doodley Sep 2021 #60
Trump deaths mountain grammy Sep 2021 #20
100 % ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #22
Does he own the million plus deaths in Europe? WarGamer Sep 2021 #32
What do you think? mountain grammy Sep 2021 #35
The facts say that... WarGamer Sep 2021 #43
Oddly, most of us expected better of the US. I laid off my cleaning ladies & gave them money... Hekate Sep 2021 #64
The anyi-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy pre-date the C19 debacle. WarGamer Sep 2021 #67
The Trump Death Clock OhioTim Sep 2021 #83
It wasn't just that trump did a piss poor job.. mountain grammy Sep 2021 #88
He doesn't own deaths in Europe...Those were a VERY STRONG warning to us... Stuart G Sep 2021 #40
A constant spewage: "Fake News, Magically disappear, Kung Flu, China Virus" worked like a charm to Evolve Dammit Sep 2021 #108
600,000 per year die of Cancer. WarGamer Sep 2021 #30
Really? Moebym Sep 2021 #37
With 200-300 million per year in funding... WarGamer Sep 2021 #39
You are off the wall, C19 is preventable..Ain't it?..No crowds, masks, social distancing...Ain't it? Stuart G Sep 2021 #41
Actually it's NOT completely preventable. WarGamer Sep 2021 #44
Well that sure is depressing. You know I remember I think it was when Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2021 #58
Lovely attempt at moving your own goalposts. LanternWaste Sep 2021 #66
Just the facts, LW... WarGamer Sep 2021 #68
diff tx for diff cancers samnsara Sep 2021 #57
Cancer is not 1 disease. Every type ocancer is completely different and treated completely different Quixote1818 Sep 2021 #95
I think we've already hit a million. One of these days a statistician will count... Hekate Sep 2021 #45
DUers have no reason to lie about this ... FakeNoose Sep 2021 #47
The CDC has data that compares the increase in deaths to what is typical. NH Ethylene Sep 2021 #51
That gives the total excess deaths from the start of March 2020 to mid July 2021 as about 715,000 muriel_volestrangler Sep 2021 #76
That's probably an undercount as it may have included May & June. n/t NH Ethylene Sep 2021 #82
I doubt there's a way to prove it either way IronLionZion Sep 2021 #55
Did your source include information on what those numbers are as a percentage of the US population? NurseJackie Sep 2021 #62
Sympthsical did the numbers Travel Hat Sep 2021 #65
Thanks. NurseJackie Sep 2021 #74
Surprised WWI was that high bucolic_frolic Sep 2021 #69
In WW I if you got out your trench and ran across no man's land towards the "other guy's trench" ... Botany Sep 2021 #75
Yes, but percents are more valid. former9thward Sep 2021 #73
By end of next year is my prediction. roamer65 Sep 2021 #79
At the rate things are going with GQP... IrishAfricanAmerican Sep 2021 #80
55 million Native Americans wiped out by disease and war meadowlander Sep 2021 #81
Thank you. roody Sep 2021 #92
Wow, truly sobering Patton French Sep 2021 #87
The right wing death cult at work - nt Ohio Joe Sep 2021 #89
Welcome to DU, Travel Hat. calimary Sep 2021 #90
I would say that it's over a million now.... OhioChick Sep 2021 #96
omg Demovictory9 Sep 2021 #97
will... myohmy2 Sep 2021 #99
Several studies Snackshack Sep 2021 #100

Botany

(70,504 posts)
1. According to some articles the real # of dead could already be @ 1,000,000 Americans.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 01:58 PM
Sep 2021

Many deaths might have never been linked to C-19.

*****
i will die mad @ what "they" did to Hillary.

Barack Obama had left the personnel, the protocols, and the materials in place that in all likelihood would
have stopped the virus in China or would have mitigated its effects world wide.

Otto_Harper

(509 posts)
3. As someone who has watched the numbers meticulously since the beginning
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:10 PM
Sep 2021

And, as someone who has spent a lifetime working with higher mathematics and data analysis, I can tell you that, in my opinion, the numbers have been, and are still being "cooked" by certain reporting entities, and, the number of dead directly from Covid exceeds whatever reporting agency figures you find.

And due to the disruption of regular medical care, as well as the reluctance of old folks (like myself) to go out for non-emergency medical issues and allow them to fester, the current death toll attributable to Covid probably exceeds 1M by a large amount.

PCIntern

(25,544 posts)
6. Agreed 100%
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:30 PM
Sep 2021

And not only that, but if you include the deaths attributable to not seeking treatment for other conditions, I bet we have broken 1,000,000 even if you assumed the the official count is correct which it most certainly is not.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
7. Agree ... especially if states have a governor like DeSantis in Florida.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:31 PM
Sep 2021

Another damn sociopath like Trump.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
18. Wish he would. He's the one the GOP would like to have run in 2024 if they
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:54 PM
Sep 2021

dump Trump to run. He's like Trump and very smart, and dangerous as hell.

 

monkeyman1

(5,109 posts)
24. very much so ! negligent homicide should be considered on all republicans !
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:01 PM
Sep 2021

I call it wishful thinking ! or - maybe a brain fart !

rambler_american

(789 posts)
63. Negligent homicide is not severe enough
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:28 PM
Sep 2021

Charge them, especially DeSantis and Abbott, with Depraved Heart Murder. They absolutely fit the definition and should be so charged and prosecuted. And throw in trump, while you're at it.
~

"Depraved heart murder is the form of murder that establishes that the willful doing of a dangerous and reckless act with wanton indifference to the consequences and perils involved, is just as blameworthy, and just as worthy of punishment, when the harmful result ensues, as is the express intent to kill itself. This highly blameworthy state of mind is not one of mere negligence. It is not merely one even of gross criminal negligence. It involves rather the deliberate perpetration of a knowingly dangerous act with reckless and wanton unconcern and indifference as to whether anyone is harmed or not. The common law treats such a state of mind as just as blameworthy, just as anti-social and, therefore, just as truly murderous as the specific intents to kill and to harm."


https://www.duhaime.org/Legal-Dictionary/Term/DepravedHeartMurder

plimsoll

(1,668 posts)
9. I never understood why "conservatives" were so opposed to universal health care.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:34 PM
Sep 2021

Infectious disease is and always has been a threat to national security.

If you make the case that the US entry into WWI helped end the war, then you're basing it on the fact that we helped kick start the pandemic. Germany couldn't afford the additional attrition from sick and dying people.

Some of the biggest improvements to the economic health of common people have come after major biomedical catastrophes (See black death). Resources get re-allocated to a smaller pool of people, but more importantly wages go up because survivors can demand and get better wages.

So two things they're supposed to like, national defense, and keeping wages low are directly impacted by poor healthcare, but they'd have to help "those people."

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
36. Profits. Kaiser gave Nixon the idea for profit based HMO. This right after Johnson started Medicare
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:12 PM
Sep 2021

If not for Kaiser and Nixon the US would in all likelihood followed Canada into the Modern industrial World of Health Care as a Right.

Once again, movement conservatism and greedy White Men changed the world for the worst.



On edit - there is a Nixon tape out there (that was not erased) that has the exact conversation between Kaiser and Nixon. I heard it years ago. Probably find on Google.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
102. You are correct. It was Nixon and Kaiser that steered America toward healthcare for profit...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:27 AM
Sep 2021

...and it was ALL ABOUT greed and profit.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
103. In fact, there is a quote, not sure who said it, I think it was Nixon...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:39 AM
Sep 2021

... I am paraphrasing... I've looked for the direct quote for years... "We (the GOP) need to do everything we can to stop the Democrats and their healthcare for all. If the Democrats are ever able to fix healthcare for everyone, the GOP would never hold power again."

Again, I paraphrase. But the gist remains the same.

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
52. That's mainly US conservatives
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:49 PM
Sep 2021

there are conservatives in countries with universal health programs that support it. The second province to get Canada Medicare was Alberta, the Texas of Canada. Most of the Tories in UK support NHS.

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
61. See Social Security and Medicare, and even Obamacare
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:19 PM
Sep 2021

GOP haven't been able to kill these programs so let's keep going until everyone is covered.

Travel Hat

(117 posts)
23. absolutely correct they are an under count.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:57 PM
Sep 2021

During the 1957 "Asian", the original numbers of deaths was 62,000. After looking at excess deaths during that time frame it was raised to 112,000. In India they believe the under count to be some where above 5 to 10 times.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
46. God only knows the #s of dead early on that died of
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:29 PM
Sep 2021

.... C-19 that were either burned or buried without being
attributed to the virus. And if the math was right for the expected trajectory for the # of deaths then we should be
past 1 million by now.

This should have been treated as a world wide public health and medical science problem but good old Donny fucked that up big time by firing our global pandemic response team, pulling us out of the W.H.O., and making it political. He is on tape in the winter of 2020 saying it is highly infectious and spread through the air.

And why are Governors such as DeSantis, Noem, and Abbott deliberately trying to spread the disease now?

Sorry to

2naSalit

(86,607 posts)
86. I know for a fact that it killed my mom...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 09:09 PM
Sep 2021

And that was not on her death certificate so I'm thinking she wasn't counted in California where she died in a nursing facility five days after testing positive and being isolated. Sure she was old and had comorbidities but she wasn't dying until she caught covid in that facility. We asked for palliative care because there was no way she was going to come through to the other side without permanent life support, which she was not using when she entered the facility.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
98. I feel fairly certian I had C-19 in late Dec. 2019 & all of Jan. 2020
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 08:51 AM
Sep 2021

Dry Cough, low grade fever, fatigue, and other "things" too. The first official case was reported
in Jan. 2020 in Seattle but I am all but certain the disease was in America before that.

2naSalit

(86,607 posts)
104. I'm pretty sure you're right.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:40 AM
Sep 2021

It's not like the former admin was forthcoming or honest about anything.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
105. Trump was told of the coming Pandemic in the fall of 2019 and what did he do?
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:53 AM
Sep 2021

He and Kushner invested into hydroxycholoroquine and their own C-19 test kit instead of using the W.H.O.'s
test kit. Neither which worked and the disease spread like wildfire.

2naSalit

(86,607 posts)
106. Yup.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:56 AM
Sep 2021

I watched in horror as they purposely accelerated the advance of the virus. They helped make it a pandemic rather than an epidemic. Fuckers, they should hang for that alone.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
109. And in the winter of 2020 Kushner & Pompeo shipped 18 tons of PPE to China* which helped ....
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 11:51 AM
Sep 2021

... to spread the disease to hundreds of medical workers and 1st responders along the east coast
because they had to use garbage bags, home made face masks, and sometimes nothing when treating
or transporting C-19 patients.


* Because Trump and Kushner owe China hundreds of millions of $s (Steele Dossier)

2naSalit

(86,607 posts)
111. They had federal agents confiscating PPE...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 12:03 PM
Sep 2021

At airports! And not reimbursing the states and other entities for their purchases.

Never forget that part.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
113. Yup! And He had states competing with each other over PPE too.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 12:22 PM
Sep 2021

Coronavirus: "Jared Kushner says national stockpile of medical equipment used for public
health emergencies is not for states."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-jared-kushner-national-stockpile-ventilators-us-states-governors-a9445841.html

2naSalit

(86,607 posts)
115. That's why they qualify...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 02:15 PM
Sep 2021

For charges of crimes against humanity. Well, one of the many reasons.



calimary

(81,262 posts)
91. Welcome to DU, Otto_Harper.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 10:37 PM
Sep 2021

Your input is MOST interesting, and your credibility leaves me even more worried. I've found myself wondering how reliable the numbers are, because I've been tracking them quite unofficially and non-professionally myself, just using the Johns Hopkins/NBC News data if I happen to catch it when it's shown on TV. And that's VERY random data tracking, because that's dependent on variables including not just when MSNBC runs it but also when I happen to be tuned in there at the right time.


And this is the last one I noted, from last Friday:

The Daily Dread - Tracking the spread, 9/10/21

All times Pacific, source: Johns Hopkins/NBC News

At 12:02pm
Confirmed cases US - 40,825,593
Deaths US - 660,470
Confirmed cases worldwide - 223,370,041
Deaths worldwide - 4,611,359


We're closing in on 41-MILLION cases.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215849072

BobTheSubgenius

(11,563 posts)
93. That seems to be a very plausible scenario set out by a professional.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 12:03 AM
Sep 2021

I have a very high degree of confidence that you are correct. (I had to stop myself from typing "dead right." Who would believe that wasn't intentional?)

And equally important....welcome to DU!

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
4. I would put everything I have on Florida's numbers
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:13 PM
Sep 2021

being drastically undercounted. Also I think the tests here have a crazy amount of false negatives as far as the testing goes. My son(Air Force) 23, was sick for 3 weeks, as were my DIL, granddaughters, 7 years old and 16 months old. They were all sick for weeks(and all tested negative). Also this started the day after school started. All vaccinated, thank goodness. My son was just deployed yesterday to NJ overnight to help Afghanistan refugees. He was sick until last week.

paleotn

(17,913 posts)
11. Yep. Obama and others got us ready for....
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:41 PM
Sep 2021

what virologist and epidemiologist have been predicting for decades. Donnie Covid fucked it all up. So did every other Republican. They're complicit in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

I've been fully aware of the inevitability of something like Covid-19 since reading Garrett's The Coming Plague back in the 90's. It came out a year before Preston's The Hot Zone. It was never a question of if, but when...and how bad. And we ain't done yet.

https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Plague-Laurie-Garrett-dp-1250796121/dp/1250796121/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1631471673

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
78. The Hot Zone was a real eye opener for .me.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 06:19 PM
Sep 2021

I went to a lecture by the husband and wife veterinarians who were pivotal to the story.

Terrifying.

Response to Botany (Reply #1)

 

Jetheels

(991 posts)
71. Well don't die mad, it was not just "they" that did it to Hillary.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 05:04 PM
Sep 2021

Her campaign wasn’t run well. Her choice of vp was dismal, an anti abortion guy, albeit in his personal stance. She coulda brought in millions of voters with a Sanders VP choice, for example, instead of some anti abortion, guy does anyone even remember his name?

But agreed, tfg dismantled all protocol for a pandemic, and then some, using the pandemic for personal profit, like that monster does with everything.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
8. Yeah, but you'd want to use comparative percentages
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:33 PM
Sep 2021

The Civil War took about 2% of the population.

Spanish Flu about 0.6%
WW1 about .2%
WW2 about .3%
Covid's at about 0.2% at present (and rising).

So, we're at about World War I at the moment. Can we bring it up to WWII? Seems achievable.

paleotn

(17,913 posts)
15. In real terms, it's like nuking Portland, OR or Nashville, TN....
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:50 PM
Sep 2021

killing every soul in either of those cities. I'm with you. Surely we can nuke something the size of Dallas or San Jose.

plimsoll

(1,668 posts)
17. Absolute numbers are good too.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:54 PM
Sep 2021

We all know about the Black Death, and it has a huge comparative death toll. Absolute numbers though, 1918 has killed more people than anything else. 50,000,000 to 100,000,000. When you start thinking about having to care for the people and bury the bodies, the absolute numbers are what will swamp us.

Travel Hat

(117 posts)
25. The reason I did it that way is I have a Maga nephew.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:03 PM
Sep 2021

He like to go on about the percentages are so low. Absolute numbers are more striking.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
29. I only converted because I was interested
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:06 PM
Sep 2021

Just curious about how it compared to other messes we've managed to get a scope of the scale.

As someone noted above, we've managed to nuke a Portland so far.

wnylib

(21,450 posts)
56. Don't your percentages rely on calculations
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:57 PM
Sep 2021

using official figures? But the estimated numbers are higher.

NH Ethylene

(30,811 posts)
50. Percentages are more meaningful in this situation, I think.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:44 PM
Sep 2021

They don't have the same 'wow' effect, but they better represent the relative impacts.

 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
77. Percentages are the right way to compare historical events, given a rising population
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 05:39 PM
Sep 2021

The Civil War is the US' only major war.

We were minor participants in WW I and II. The major combatants, UK, France, Germany, Russia, suffered much higher death rates in both wars.

The US sat out WW I until it was almost over.

WW II was mainly fought between Germany and Russia. North Africa, Italy, and the Normandy campaign, etc. were comparatively less bloody.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
85. Percent is interesting & telling, but I'm not sure it's the most valid when used alone.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 08:05 PM
Sep 2021

People had much less contact with others, and with fewer people. Most were still rural. The world population was only 2 billion, that of the USA only around 76 million.

I'm not saying the raw counts are best either, by the way.

I'm guessing some weighted combination that also includes other measures like effect on GDP (or global) although that's apples & oranges.

Plus, by some accounts the 1918 pandemic lasted only from early 1918 to late summer 2019. There were no vaccines, no drugs, no ventilators, no respirators (only cloth masks). It was altogether a different virus, one that burned through populations in a way very similar to what Republicans wanted to let COVID do. By late 2019 everyone was either dead or immune. The dynamics of the virus getting a chance to mutate to something more "perfect" (ugh) were very different.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
12. Well, thanks for brightening my day.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 02:44 PM
Sep 2021
If the GQP didn't politicize every damned thing under the sun, we might have had this under control by now.

Response to monkeyman1 (Reply #21)

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
31. Trump's most famous words/lie..."It's a hoax"...He won't ever live that down...just as important...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:08 PM
Sep 2021

He may want to run again for President of the U.S.A., but those three words...will totally prevent him running for
anything....especially "dog catcher"
..If Trump runs again, he will be often struck by those three words, by every
reporter asking questions, or at forums where there are debates..Because of those 3 words..........there is no
doubt that ...Donald Trump will go down in history....as the worst president ever....

...Here are the facts on that....

....Was the Civil War preventable?...NO..(so the president before Lincoln could not have stopped it)
....Was the stock market crash in 1929..preventable?...No..no safety factors were in place to prevent the crash...
...........now, all federal deposits are insured by government...& lots of safety features are in place to prevent this
....Was WWII preventable?...No Hitler was elected by Germany..the decision for Pearl Harbor was made by Japan.................
.........When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, the rest is history..


...Were the deaths of Covoid 19 preventable...YES..
........................Trump saying it was a "hoax" caused many deaths...

....If everyone were told from the very beginning to wear a mask..and be socially distant...many lives could have been saved...
...........even now many foolish people get into crowds and think everything will be OK..,Trump had crowds in the
White House...

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
38. Totally Agree."Lock him up" 1min,52secs, Trump says "Virus is a hoax..We have lost nobody to virus"
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:13 PM
Sep 2021

Last edited Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:08 PM - Edit history (4)

Also, Trump says, "We are totally prepared"


Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
53. Not all reporters are "chickenshit." Some will ask that question, and at debates he will be reminded
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:49 PM
Sep 2021

Trump will not run again for anything..He is now known by most people..."as a killer"

He will always be remembered by those 3 words...."It's A Hoax"

....Short, simple, easy to remember, and most important...available for all to watch and listen to..

WarGamer

(12,444 posts)
43. The facts say that...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:24 PM
Sep 2021

While EVERYONE acknowledges that Trump did a piss poor job of dealing with COVID-19 as President...

Facts say that the US Death Rate is in line with that of other Western Democracies with similar cultures, infrastructure, economies and health care...

better than some, worse than others. Ranked #21 in the World in Deaths/1M.

Belgium and Italy fared worse... the UK fared "slightly better" at 1965 deaths/1M compared to our 2033.

France around 13% better than the USA and Germany was the shining star in Europe with around 50% of the deaths per 1M of the USA.

In time, real actual scientific papers will be written about the root causes of fatality numbers and who/what was to blame.

Hekate

(90,683 posts)
64. Oddly, most of us expected better of the US. I laid off my cleaning ladies & gave them money...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:28 PM
Sep 2021

… for the next few months.

In my naïveté about the extent of the sheer malice of Trump and Trumpites, I honest to God thought my country would have a grip on the public health situation in 3 months. Not a “cure,” not a vaccine — but the centuries-old and proven public health measures.

Instead it was a year before I had them back in the house, and they are fully-masked, as am I.

I thought we were better than this.

WarGamer

(12,444 posts)
67. The anyi-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy pre-date the C19 debacle.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:47 PM
Sep 2021

We were ALWAYS going to have a section of the population that refuses to be controlled or influenced by science and facts.

mountain grammy

(26,620 posts)
88. It wasn't just that trump did a piss poor job..
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 09:14 PM
Sep 2021

He actively made it worse by calling it a hoax and mocking the entire process.

That some countries did worse is not relevant to what happened and is still happening here.The politicization of common public health precautions, calling it a hoax, pushing conspriacies and bogus cures led to far worse results in America. Just because some other western democracies didn't do well doesn't mean we couldn't be doing far better.

Yes, I think when the scientific papers are written we'll know what we already know.

Check out the articles on that Trump Death Clock site. Plenty of proof already exists that he made it worse, thereby owning most American deaths.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
40. He doesn't own deaths in Europe...Those were a VERY STRONG warning to us...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:17 PM
Sep 2021

...The most powerful warning ever....

....A concerned president would have taken very strong steps to ...prevent that from happening here...

......REMEMBER: .....TRUMP DID NOT TAKE ANY STEPS...& ..HE CALLED IT A HOAX....


..................THAT IS IT, AND THAT IS ALL............"IT'S A HOAX"!!!!

Evolve Dammit

(16,728 posts)
108. A constant spewage: "Fake News, Magically disappear, Kung Flu, China Virus" worked like a charm to
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:58 AM
Sep 2021

allow ~75 million to downplay, ignore, mock, minimize and now undermine and attack, despite the largest death toll in U.S. history. Truly sociopathic.

WarGamer

(12,444 posts)
30. 600,000 per year die of Cancer.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:07 PM
Sep 2021

For many many years...

And yet, no moon-shot eradication program or Billions invested by the US Gov't

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
41. You are off the wall, C19 is preventable..Ain't it?..No crowds, masks, social distancing...Ain't it?
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:20 PM
Sep 2021

wash your hands, don't stand next to anyone who is not vaccinated......Yes...VACCINATION!!

iS THAT CORRECT?????????????.........REPEAT:....VACCINATION

WarGamer

(12,444 posts)
44. Actually it's NOT completely preventable.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:25 PM
Sep 2021

Masks reduce the spread and vaccines mostly keep you from dying.

Scientists are now saying that COVID-19 will become endemic, meaning EVERYONE will end up catching it. Unless you live in a bubble.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/endemic-covid-manageable-risk-dual-threat-influenza/620044/

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
58. Well that sure is depressing. You know I remember I think it was when
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:05 PM
Sep 2021

When Tom Hanks and his wife got it and Australia. Someone said if you're going to get covid get it early when hospitals are empty and people there treat you like a special person and oddity. Now it's hard in some places to even get into a hospital.

Makes me think, if it eventually hits everyone, will we get to some crazy point where people plan when they're going to get it.

Quixote1818

(28,936 posts)
95. Cancer is not 1 disease. Every type ocancer is completely different and treated completely different
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 02:40 AM
Sep 2021

Hekate

(90,683 posts)
45. I think we've already hit a million. One of these days a statistician will count...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:28 PM
Sep 2021

Last edited Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:16 PM - Edit history (1)

…excess deaths, and give us more reliable figures than we ever got from Trump or the Trumpite governors, or any of those myriad officials who live to cover their own asses.

FakeNoose

(32,639 posts)
47. DUers have no reason to lie about this ...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:35 PM
Sep 2021

Even here on DU some have been posting that they thought they might have had Covid even before the virus had been identified and named. Like late 2019, there was a weird dangerous "virus" going around that was more serious than flu and more like pneumonia. Especially people who traveled or took a cruise were reporting it.

I'm certain that Covid was here before the first cases were identified, and before the deaths were added to the totals. Also many of the early deaths that occurred in the elderly care/nursing homes were disguised as "something else" for whatever reason. This happened before we started hanging the blame on Chump, so the reason wasn't political. It was just that the people didn't know.

Unexplained deaths in late 2019 and early 2020 are suspect, and in retrospect they're more likely to be Covid-related. That's just my opinion and I'm not a medical professional.

NH Ethylene

(30,811 posts)
51. The CDC has data that compares the increase in deaths to what is typical.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:48 PM
Sep 2021

That's one way to determine the impact of Covid 19.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
(Scroll way down for graph)

muriel_volestrangler

(101,315 posts)
76. That gives the total excess deaths from the start of March 2020 to mid July 2021 as about 715,000
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 05:37 PM
Sep 2021

(I picked mid July since it takes some time for all deaths to be reported and then recorded in the national system). I did a similar exercise with the excess deaths from Our World in Data, and got 820,000.

So there's a very good chance the excess deaths have already exceeded the flu pandemic of 100 years ago.

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
55. I doubt there's a way to prove it either way
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 03:56 PM
Sep 2021

since there weren't any tests and people would have gotten better or died without knowing.

That's the same problem with identifying where it originated since any evidence would have been cleaned by now.

COVID in the US got out of control when Trump officials thought it would be a good idea to scare Americans from all over the world to return home at once, avoid any sort of screening, and hope it kills us in big cities. It was deliberate and malicious. Then it continued to spiral as Trump/GOP turned it into a political issue that is backfiring badly as their own supporters are impacted.

Travel Hat

(117 posts)
65. Sympthsical did the numbers
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 04:39 PM
Sep 2021

In reply Number 8 he did the percentages.


The Civil War took about 2% of the population.

Spanish Flu about 0.6%
WW1 about .2%
WW2 about .3%
Covid's at about 0.2% at present (and rising).

Botany

(70,504 posts)
75. In WW I if you got out your trench and ran across no man's land towards the "other guy's trench" ...
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 05:26 PM
Sep 2021

... the odds were against you because by that time with machine guns that had a 10 degree swing
per burst there really was a blanket of lead.

former9thward

(32,005 posts)
73. Yes, but percents are more valid.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 05:15 PM
Sep 2021

We now have about 330 million people. During the Spanish flu we had a small fraction of the that. And that death number is very suspect since we did not have the public health reporting abilities and requirements that we have now.

meadowlander

(4,395 posts)
81. 55 million Native Americans wiped out by disease and war
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 07:18 PM
Sep 2021

Not technically overlapping in terms of time period with "US history" but still...

calimary

(81,262 posts)
90. Welcome to DU, Travel Hat.
Sun Sep 12, 2021, 10:32 PM
Sep 2021

I made a copy of this. Good, usable reference material. The Vietnam war total was 58-thousand dead. And I thought THAT was a horrendous number...

OhioChick

(23,218 posts)
96. I would say that it's over a million now....
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 03:40 AM
Sep 2021

Reporting from the beginning has been severely under-reported.

myohmy2

(3,163 posts)
99. will...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:09 AM
Sep 2021

...we ever have a 9/11 type memorial for the victims of the Republican COVID Pandemic?

...will we ever commit to 'Never Forget'?

...will we hold accountable those who mismanaged, lied, politicized and profited from the pandemic?

...will we ever have a commission to discover the truth on how Trump and his administration failed the American people?

...will we ever discover why so many Americans had to die?

...probably not...


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
100. Several studies
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:18 AM
Sep 2021

Have said that because of under reporting or incorrect reporting COVID deaths are likely well above the 1,000,000 mark… which would make this the largest loss of life event in US history.

I will never forgive the GOP for what they have done.

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