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JohnSJ

(92,136 posts)
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:49 AM Sep 2021

Data shows Covid booster shots are 'not appropriate' at this time, U.S. and international scientists

"An expert review of scientific evidence to date has concluded that Covid-19 vaccine booster shots are not needed at this time for the general public, a group of leading U.S. and international scientists said Monday in the peer-reviewed journal The Lancet.

The conclusion by scientists, including two senior Food and Drug Administration officials and the WHO, came as studies continue to show the authorized Covid vaccines in the U.S. remain highly effective against severe disease and hospitalization caused by the fast-spreading delta variant.

While Covid vaccine effectiveness against mild disease may wane over time, protection against severe disease may persist, the scientists said. That’s because the body’s immune system is complex, they said, and has other defenses besides antibodies that may protect someone from getting seriously sick.

“Current evidence does not, therefore, appear to show a need for boosting in the general population, in which efficacy against severe disease remains high,” the scientists wrote, adding the wide distribution of boosters is “not appropriate at this stage in the pandemic.”

An expert review of scientific evidence to date has concluded that Covid-19 vaccine booster shots are not needed at this time for the general public, a group of leading U.S. and international scientists said Monday in the peer-reviewed journal The Lancet.

........


They said there are risks to distributing boosters too soon, including the potential for side effects such as a rare heart inflammation condition known as myocarditis, which is more common after the second dose of mRNA vaccines.

“If unnecessary boosting causes significant adverse reactions, there could be implications for vaccine acceptance that go beyond COVID-19 vaccines,” they wrote.

The comments come a week before the Biden administration says it plans to begin offering Covid vaccine booster shots to the general public. An FDA advisory group is meeting Friday to discuss the data to support the wide use of boosters.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/covid-booster-shots-data-shows-third-shots-not-appropriate-at-this-time-scientists-conclude.html

In the early days of the pandemic both WHO and the CDC did not perform admirably in the early stage of the vaccine. They responded too slowly. The WHO believed China that the virus was nothing to be concerned about. In fact if you recall initially WHO was hesitant to even call the SARS co V2 a

The WHO screwed up — just like the US screwed up. The WHO responded slowly, just like the US responded slowly. The WHO believed China, just like President Trump believed China.)

“Using the word pandemic now does not fit the facts but it may certainly cause fear,” said Tedros. Asked about the WHO’s reluctance to call a pandemic, WHO spokesperson Tarik Jasarevic said “it is important to focus on actions and not on words.”

True – but words matter. Reluctance to tell the public the truth for fear of causing panic has plagued responses to other disease emergencies, notably BSE in Britain. Risk communication experts warn that not telling the public that containment will not prevent a pandemic – but might still slow it – risks greater shock over what comes next."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2235342-covid-19-why-wont-the-who-officially-declare-a-coronavirus-pandemic/

The mixed messages, not only within the scientific community, but from social media and conspiracy nuts I think indicate this will be with us for a long time






41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Data shows Covid booster shots are 'not appropriate' at this time, U.S. and international scientists (Original Post) JohnSJ Sep 2021 OP
Interesting SheltieLover Sep 2021 #1
yup. The mixed messaging is going keep this going on for a long time I suspect JohnSJ Sep 2021 #2
Ridiculous, IMO SheltieLover Sep 2021 #4
I agree. I think politics has unfortunately become part of these organizations JohnSJ Sep 2021 #6
That heart risk thing has been a right wing talking point. Tomconroy Sep 2021 #3
It is always a risk verses reward, even for current vaccines. Of course you are right, you should JohnSJ Sep 2021 #5
You're lucky you have a GP SheltieLover Sep 2021 #10
I already spoke to him. He said I should get it and that he Tomconroy Sep 2021 #14
Ty for sharing! SheltieLover Sep 2021 #16
The booster now is for the immuno compromised. Tomconroy Sep 2021 #19
Ty SheltieLover Sep 2021 #20
Oh. They did say at my CVS to wait four weeks between the flu shot and a Covid shot. Tomconroy Sep 2021 #22
Ty! SheltieLover Sep 2021 #24
I can't get the flu shot samplegirl Sep 2021 #41
The VA sent out an email saying you can get BOTH the COVID vaccine AND the flu shot on the same day. KewlKat Sep 2021 #27
Study found 18-24 y/o males, right wing tactic to spread fear lies that it affects everyone, typical Shanti Shanti Shanti Sep 2021 #17
And the condition generally resolves in a few days SheltieLover Sep 2021 #21
I'm not in "general population" a blanket policy for the average healthy young person is not for me Shanti Shanti Shanti Sep 2021 #7
Congrats! SheltieLover Sep 2021 #13
Based on what? USALiberal Sep 2021 #33
Based on my personal medical conditions and medications, and my Dr and pharmacist agreed, go ahead Shanti Shanti Shanti Sep 2021 #34
I would like protection against mild disease, too. The better the protection, the less it spreads. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #8
Thank-you. JohnSJ Sep 2021 #11
Same here! SheltieLover Sep 2021 #15
Some deliberations afe best done privately Raven123 Sep 2021 #9
I think so JohnSJ Sep 2021 #12
I wonder whether they are deliberately trying to confuse the situation. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #18
I had a Moderna booster 5 months to the agingdem Sep 2021 #23
I feel the same way! SheltieLover Sep 2021 #25
Raises an interesting question FBaggins Sep 2021 #26
It's the consensus... agingdem Sep 2021 #28
You might qualify for the booster now JohnSJ Sep 2021 #30
What did your doctor say about getting booster shots? Evan1980 Sep 2021 #31
Doctor wasn't opposed .. agingdem Sep 2021 #35
I got my Moderna booster as well. LisaL Sep 2021 #39
Not happy that CoVid booster recommended be delayed, so Backseat Driver Sep 2021 #29
My concern with delaying the boosters - Ms. Toad Sep 2021 #32
'Not needed' depends on how you define what the goal of vaccines is. If avoiding severe disease and wiggs Sep 2021 #36
+1, I didn't think the vaccines in the US gave 100% immunity against the virus uponit7771 Sep 2021 #38
They were pretty good with it prior to Delta. Delta seems to be a different kettle of fish. Crunchy Frog Sep 2021 #40
Uh, Trump ADMITTED China warned him !!! Somethings odd about this article uponit7771 Sep 2021 #37

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
1. Interesting
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 09:56 AM
Sep 2021

Israel is scheduled to present data on this to US health officials on 9/17. Data which, from what I've read, strongly favors boosters beginning at 5 months post full vax.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
3. That heart risk thing has been a right wing talking point.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:05 AM
Sep 2021

Who knows? I'm going to listen to my GP.

JohnSJ

(92,136 posts)
5. It is always a risk verses reward, even for current vaccines. Of course you are right, you should
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:08 AM
Sep 2021

listen to your doctor, but I think these mixed messages are going to prevent us from getting control of this for a long time


SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
10. You're lucky you have a GP
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:14 AM
Sep 2021

This area is so medically underserved, it's beyond words.

Great plan to listen to your doc!

I think I read somewhere that doctors can rec boosters for people.

Pls let us know what your doc says!

I have to wonder if they are saying this, perhaps, to reserve vaxes for kids? Who knows...

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
14. I already spoke to him. He said I should get it and that he
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:18 AM
Sep 2021

(much younger than me) was getting one. But everyone should consult there own doctor if they can.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
19. The booster now is for the immuno compromised.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:29 AM
Sep 2021

The Pfizer booster is expected to be available for everyone very soon. The moderna and Pfizer are available now for the immuno compromised but moderna has been slower with their paperwork for it to be in general use. My understanding (always subject to correction) is that it's the same shot as the first two.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
20. Ty
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:31 AM
Sep 2021

That's my understanding, too.

From what I've read, the largest drop in efficacy is among people >age 65.

KewlKat

(5,624 posts)
27. The VA sent out an email saying you can get BOTH the COVID vaccine AND the flu shot on the same day.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 11:22 AM
Sep 2021

Now who do we believe? UGHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Flu season is HeRe – get youR Flu VaCCine
We are offering Flu vaccines to Boise VA Medical Center enrolled Veterans. Last year cases of flu were at a low due to folks wearing masks and choosing to be vaccinated. This year you can receive both your flu vaccine and your COVID vaccine the same day if you want. We want to help you to be protected against these diseases.

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
7. I'm not in "general population" a blanket policy for the average healthy young person is not for me
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:10 AM
Sep 2021

I got my Moderna 3rd shot, in before the lockdown!

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
8. I would like protection against mild disease, too. The better the protection, the less it spreads.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:11 AM
Sep 2021

As far as I can tell, there's no reason not to get a booster in the US. We have plenty of vaccines and are also sending them around the world. I already know what side effects to expect and I am OK with that.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
15. Same here!
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:18 AM
Sep 2021

Asymptomatic & mild infections still can, & often do, result in long haul. ~30% & very high risk of needing dialysis, per Dr. Eroc Ding, Harvard epidemiologidt twitter. Yes, even if not hospitalized!

😷

Raven123

(4,828 posts)
9. Some deliberations afe best done privately
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:12 AM
Sep 2021

Data is arriving at a frenetic pace and needs careful scrutiny.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
18. I wonder whether they are deliberately trying to confuse the situation.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:24 AM
Sep 2021

The psychology is complex though. Maybe they are trying to encourage unvaxxed folks to go out and get their first shot, because the vaccines are so good...or maybe trying to spread the world vaccine supply to more people... ?

agingdem

(7,845 posts)
23. I had a Moderna booster 5 months to the
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:44 AM
Sep 2021

day of my second vaccine..and if I have to get one every 5 or 6 months I will, data or no data...

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
25. I feel the same way!
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 10:48 AM
Sep 2021

I've not gotten booster & I'm at nearly 6 mos from fully vaxed.

But Israel has very strong data reflecting that efficacy wanes significantly after 5 months.

They are reportedly set to present this to US health officials on 9/17.

FBaggins

(26,727 posts)
26. Raises an interesting question
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 11:02 AM
Sep 2021

In the “no data” scenario, how will you determine whether you “need to get one”?

agingdem

(7,845 posts)
28. It's the consensus...
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 11:34 AM
Sep 2021

we need a booster..maybe in six months, maybe 8 months, maybe right now, maybe never..this isn't "data" it's conjecture..virologists know the vaccine works but the degree of protection wanes with time...I'm 73 with a crap immune system..I don't have that kind of time to wait until the global scientific community comes to some kind of an agreement as to if and when to booster

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
39. I got my Moderna booster as well.
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 03:03 PM
Sep 2021

While they are debating out there what's appropriate or not.
Israel's data is clear that booster is working.
I don't think we in US are different from people in Israel in that they need a booster and we don't.
We used the same vaccine or similar vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).

Backseat Driver

(4,390 posts)
29. Not happy that CoVid booster recommended be delayed, so
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 11:41 AM
Sep 2021

will take advantage of the seasonal flu shot so vaccines are not on top of each other - I believe in vaccines but not in the rapid-fire schedule with which we vaccinate our pets, kids, PG moms, etc...even the shotgun approach of multiple pathogens to newbie military - immune systems do need time to rest and return to just a "guarding" status not a status of rapidly being over-stimulated by exposure.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
32. My concern with delaying the boosters -
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 12:19 PM
Sep 2021

especially in light of the reluctance of those who have been vaccinated to wear masks - is that the protection against mild disease is needed in order to prevent transmission.

My employee and I were exposed three times in the week before school started - two of them by vaccinated individuals (one of whom was sure what she had was a cold, the other of whom had a mild headache).

The data indicates that for the first 5 days, vaccinated individuals with COVID are every bit as contagious as unvaccinated individuals.

So as long as the vaccinated refuse to wear masks (and continue to dismiss mild symptoms as something else), not adminisering booster shots to bump up the protections against mild diseases will significantly contribute to the continuing surge of cases.

Myocarditis is rare, and seems to target young males. Perhaps an individual evaluation could be made within that group - rather than avoiding all boosters because of a miniscule risk to a select population.

wiggs

(7,812 posts)
36. 'Not needed' depends on how you define what the goal of vaccines is. If avoiding severe disease and
Mon Sep 13, 2021, 02:46 PM
Sep 2021

hospitalization is the goal, then the current vaccines appear to be doing a great job and data might be thin otherwise. This is the basis of the FDA stance...how the current vaccine recommendations do against hospitalization and death. Therefore no urgent need for boosters for most of us.

IF...if the goal is potential eradication of the virus, avoidance of long covid, avoidance of mild disease, avoidance of loss of kidney function, or reduction in IQ....then I would think that most scientists would say that a booster has a valid, effective role.

Also...I'd like to know how much Delta effects are part of scientific reports now. Are pre-delta data still affecting the numbers collected a while ago?

Infection, even for the vaccinated, starts a race between viral replication and our immune systems...I believe the most rapid immune response happens when you still have b cells circulating after recent vaccination or previous exposure. I want a strong, rapid response from circulating b cells in addition to the final strong t cell response that keeps me from getting very sick

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