So they gave a lot of private stuff about Trayvon to Zimmerman's lawyer, huh?

[Stinky The Clown]

Florida?

Do they do that with rape victims?

Child abuse victims?

Robbery victims?





How does Trayvon defend what he may have said? How does he defend against it being twisted and misinterpreted?

Justice?

Yeah, right.






Jaybus Fucking Kerist on a Trailer Hitch.





Fuck.

[former-republican]

1. Robbery they could , rape victims have shield laws

[atreides1]

2. But guess what

His defense opened the door for the prosecution to look into Zimmerman's past as well...and it isn't pretty.

[former-republican]

3. either way you won't get 12 jurors? to convict him on 2nd degree murder

won't happen and he will walk.

The defense can easily show reasonable doubt.

The prosecution case is full of holes.

Or is it it 6 in Florida ?

[Kennah]

4. Voluntary Manslaughter is still a felony for which he'll do time

Mutual combat is a textbook example of voluntary manslaughter

[former-republican]

6. Tough to prove

By most accounts now he did end the pursuit and was waiting for the police to arrive.

He says he was attacked , the evidence is going to show that.

This won't be argued as mutual combat by the prosecution.

They will go for murder 2 and lose.

Involuntary ?

The jury will find not guilty on all counts or it will be hung jury.
One way or another he walks.

[Kennah]

7. Voluntary and involuntary manslaughter are usually lesser included offenses

[former-republican]

9. I agree

I don't think they will meet it.
I think it will be proved beyond a reasonable doubt it was self defense or it will be a hung jury.

[rbrnmw]

25. Are You sure you are a former?

Your post is one that a person with the stomach enough to might read on right leaning website not here.

[former-republican]

27. I'm someone who doesn't let the MSM make my decision for me

I like to hear all the evidence first before making a decision.

[Hutzpa]

31. Can you kindly tell me what is it that gives you the impression that Zimmerman will walk?

since you're someone who looks at evidence before making a decision.

[former-republican]

40. .

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life ….

[Hutzpa]

41. All that is whole bunch of nothing new

only a shyster Lawyer will try and win a case on technicalities, this is a very simple case, from the moment the police told Zimmerman to stop following the victim and he refused, it became premeditated murder, to try and site anything else from that is just distortion and misleading presentation.

He pursued his victim like like a prey until he achieved his innermost desire, which was to kill him.

[former-republican]

42. lets see what the jury decides

It sounds like you made up your mind already without hearing all the evidence.

[Kennah]

8. You can't be serious, unless you're still living in Glenbeckistan

[former-republican]

10. what is that?

[Kennah]

12. The place where Glenn Beck listeners go to listen

MIRT might be paying you a visit

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Are you saying he did not commit a crime or that a jury will not convict

due to nullification etc?

[former-republican]

18. I'm saying that I believe one juror

or more will not convict him on 2nd degree murder. Even the prosecutor has said several times it's a complicated case.
And decided not to bring it in front of a grand jury. If you remember she wanted to go 1st degree for a while.

If the judge instructs the jury to also allow involuntary manslaughter then there is a better chance of conviction.

If not he will walk

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. I want to recall that there as been discussion previously of lesser charges

and if they were automatically included or not. IIRC, that varies from state to state.

I concur that it will be hard to get a unified jury on the case.

[Kennah]

30. It appears that Manslaughter and Third Degree Murder are lesser included offenses for Zimmerman

Here are the charges.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/11/zimmerman.charges.pdf

782.04(2) is Second Degree (Depraved Mind) Murder
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

According to the Florida Supreme Court, Schedule of Lesser Included Offenses, Manslaughter and Third Degree (Felony) Murder are lesser included offenses. The tinyurl link is a Google generated HTML link of the RTF document link below.
http://tinyurl.com/9v6347p
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/chapter33/schedlesserincludoffens.rtf

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. In some states they can drop the lesser charges to pressure the jury with only one option.

Given my basic skepticism about the human race theses day, I am afeared that a hung jury is a reasonable expectation.

[Kennah]

33. Your skepticism may be right, and I will admit to being a foolish optimist ...

... but while I don't think a murder two conviction will befall Zimmerman, I think he's gonna get convicted of a lesser offense.

[Nevernose]

5. And it's totally irrelevant

They're just looking for mud to sling. Whether Trayvon attacked him or not is irrelevant; it's a bullshit smokescreen thrown out by the defense. The first link in the chain of events was when Zimmerman grabbed his gun and decided to stalk and pursue a child.

[Honeycombe8]

36. Whether Martin attacked him is indeed relevant.

Going by the legal definition of stalking, Zimmerman wasn't stalking Martin. He HAD been following him, but judging from teh conversation w/the police, on the tape, he had stopped and was inside and around his car, when Martin approached him, holding something in his hand.

It is entirely possibly that a jury may find that Zimmerman thought his life was in danger, whether it was or not.

Describing Martin as a child isn't really accurate. He was a minor, but not a child...which is usu. considered about 10 to 12 years of age or less.

I would think, though, that a jury could find something against Zimmerman, having to do with negligent behavior or instigating factor, or something like that...if there is something legal that covers that.

I can see where it would be very difficult to get a murder conviction out of this scenario. Not sure what the individual elements of "manslaughter" are that the prosecutor would need to show. A manslaughter finding might be possible, depending on exactly what that is in Florida. Even if Martin had attacked him, a jury might find that responding with gunfire warrants manslaughter finding.

[Hugabear]

11. At the same time, Zimmerman's lawyers are fighting to protect his privacy

The State wants access to Zimmerman's medical records, which Zimmerman's attorneys are calling an invasion of his privacy.

Insane, isn't it.

[Xedniw]

15. Every attorney fights to protect their client's privacy--nothing suspicious there. But, if the

court decides that those records are relevant to the case, they will be allowed in as evidence.

[Xedniw]

14. Zimmerman's defense has a right to this information, unlike a rape victim's info because

there was clearly a fight on the grass witnessed by a white neighbor and a black teenager and both said the same thing: that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, hitting him. There is no question that Trayvon got a few punches in. The question is, was Trayvon acting in self defense or was he on the attack at that point (just before the shooting)? A history of violence might support the latter answer, depending on the type and frequency of the violence. For example, if TM got into a single fight in school, that might be considered normal for a kid his age, but if he was involved in a violent fight subculture, as has been alleged, then TM might be considered more violent than other kids his age, which would tend to support the notion that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, at least in that altercation witnessed on the ground.

TM was not a rape victim whose past sexual history is irrelevant to the act of rape itself, which is an act of violence. TM was involved in a shooting and certain behavior of his was witnessed (punching Zimmerman, being on top of him).

Both TM's history AND GZ's history are crucial here: the jury will want to see if either (or both) of these guys had a hair-trigger temper, had been involved in violent acts before, or had caused personal injury to any third party. Zimmerman's domestic violence complaints are relevant as is his assault of a police officer. Martin's violent activities are also relevant. The court is not victimizing Trayvon here--they are getting relevant background from all parties.

[HiPointDem]

16. lol

[JaneyVee]

19. Uh, pulling a gun and killing someone isn't considered self-defense against an un-armed person.

[former-republican]

20. It can be under certain circumstances

That is why all the evidence needs to be heard in a court of law.

[msanthrope]

21. Yes...it is. Think woman fighting off a potential rapist.

Now while I fully believe that George Zimmerman should be charged with 1st, not 2nd degree murder, I find your statement on the law to be incorrect.

[former-republican]

24. It can be a man fighting off an attacker also

Age of victim and attacker , physical condition of victim all come into play.

[msanthrope]

23. A pretty good summary--I am of the opinion that GZ should have

been charged higher.

[former-republican]

26. The only higher is 1st degree

You think this was premeditated?

[msanthrope]

29. Yes--and here's an OP I wrote about it--it's a point being missed in the noise.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002613889

You see, by the time Zimmy's sitting in that car, he's already identified a jailed burglary suspect. That guy is still in jail on the night of the shooting. The crime spree is over---unless---Georgie has taken it upon himself to catch the remaining crooks, since the cops probably told him it was more than one kid doing the robberies. At some point after Feb 6th, Zimmy's in the Sanford police department, identifying Burgess. I have no doubt that he looked at other possible suspect mug shots (associates of Burgess) and found out from the cops that 2 AA males were spotted.

So there's Georgie--does anyone really think he was on his way to Target? No, he was patrolling the neighborhood, trying to catch the guy with Burgess. And then he sees Trayvon Martin. And then he's told to wait by the 911 dispatcher. But he goes anyway.

This is premeditation--lying in wait. A tough case to make, but possible.

In edit--an important point is that Burgess isn't charged with the robberies--he's only charged with possession of stolen property, which indicates that the roofers who spotted 2 AA males could not make a positive id. So I have no doubt that the cops told Zimmy that without accomplice testimony, Burgess would escape robbery charges. Thus the remark "they always get away with it," from Zimmy on the 911 tape, and thus the pursuit of an "accomplice."

[Honeycombe8]

38. That wouldn't wash at all.

If it were premeditated, he wouldn't have called the cops. In fact, the police tape you can hear Zimmerman say he's in his car, that the guy (Martin) is now approaching him, holding something in his hand.

So GZ wasn't following martin at the time, and in fact, the tape indicates it was Martin who was approaching GZ. We know from Martin's girlfriend's statement that Martin says some guy is following him, he tells her he's going to check it out, she hears walking (Martin walking), then she hears him ask someone what he wants. This jives with the police tape.

No premeditation. GZ should be found guilty of something...but what, I don't know. They wouldn't get a murder conviction. It seems clear, from what we know (although we don't know everything) that he was not out to murder Martin.

[unhappycamper]

17. "Jaybus Fucking Kerist on a Trailer Hitch."

[rbrnmw]

22. That is beyond disgusting

WTG Floriduh Tarnish a child's memory and further victimize his family to get his murderer off the hook Disgusting The sunshine law should not nor do I think it does apply to children

[Honeycombe8]

39. Martin was a minor, but not what the law would call a child. He was months away from being an adult.

[Nye Bevan]

35. IANAL but isn't that called "discovery"? (nt)

[rustydog]

37. Yes the defense gets to see the case against him/her. That is how the justice system works

in America.