There is a *Logical reason folks are gargling with Betadine

[canetoad]

I can't say for sure what the label of Betadine Sore Throat Gargle said in the US, but here's what it said in Australia until recently.



...AntiBacterial and AntiViral.

Whether this is true or not, this is how it was marketed in the Southern Hemisphere until a short while ago when the label was altered. As far as I'm concerned you all are entitled to heap as much scorn as you like on adherents of woo covid remedies; this one, I believe falls into a different category.

Personally, I think it's a cheap shot to be castigating folk for gargling with Betadine when the label very clearly says.....AntiViral.

[hlthe2b]

1. Betadine comes in many forms. It is the dilution strength that is at issue.

That product is specifically labeled as a gargle product and thus sufficiently diluted. Most betadine products are not and anyone who would try using the concentrated form for that purpose needs to be following specific instructions on its dilution. Like most things (including chlorine bleach, btw) toxicity is a matter of "dose strength."

Like the poor couple in Arizona whose, ignorance upon hearing about hydroxychloroquine as a preventative against COVID decided to use the hydroxychloroquine-containing fish tank cleaner. To put it mildly, the general public is not sophisticated on these issues. Yet little care is taken to educate before promoting this bullshit.

Thus, I would ask you to be highly cautious about such general promotion.

[hlthe2b]

5. No. I SEE these patients so you could not be more wrong...

And I take exception to your accusations as beyond inappropriate.

Yes, this issue IS resulting in serious harm for those who are ill-informed. And you DO need to be cautious in promoting it without sufficient explanation. To do so without being clear is to cause harm--just as with TFG in his infamous press conference.

[canetoad]

6. Are you telling me

That you have seen patients who have used Betadine Sore Throad Gargle? And they have been seriously harmed?

Pull the other one buddy. Nice try but no cigar.

[hlthe2b]

7. I stated the issue is with undiluted standard forms of betadine and YOU KNOW IT.

and yes, poison controls and my ER are getting calls. Be responsible.

Here is but one documented incident of what CAN happen:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5728773/
Acute kidney injury due to povidone-iodine ingestion
A case report

[Scrivener7]

8. When did so many in DU take on the communication patterns of chastising nuns?

It seems to be a thing these days.

I'm sure I once heard my 7th grade nun use this exact phrase:

So please dispatch the pomposity and self-righteousness to it's proper place.

Also, that's quite ironic.

PSA: Kids, don't gargle with Betadine.

[PJMcK]

14. Well written (n/t)

[LeftInTX]

26. Diluted properly it's like listerine or other oral products

It might work for irritations and mouth sores, but it won't work for Covid.

[hlthe2b]

28. Yes. Agree. I discuss that more fully in post downstream (post 18)

[Hav]

2. You may have a point,

it'd still only kill what's in your mouth (better than nothing I suppose and perhaps useful for prevention after you just came back from shopping). It wouldn't do anything to fight the virus inside your body and it's absolutely no alternative for the vaccine or real treatment once you have Covid which was the point from those hyping this up. And the label you posted clearly advised to consult a doctor for lasting symptoms.

People baselessly proposing alternative treatments do deserve scorn because their actions cost lifes.

[canetoad]

4. I think it's more that a 'point'

The label of a trusted product clearly said 'AntiViral'.

[Hav]

10. For your mouth

Do you not see the difference between a mouthwash and the effectiveness of a vaccine or an established treatment against a virus infection in your body?
Most of the idiots proposing hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin and now Betadine do so to present alternatives to the vaccine and it leads to other idiots taking medicine that wasn't intended for human consumption like the horse paste and the version of Betadine for topical use. People are poisoning themselves because of this nonsense.

[Hortensis]

15. Betadine as replacement for vaccine: NO! BAD! But some people

have been ridiculing the entire idea of Betadine itself as a gargle because they didn't realize that is a legitimate use. It is, so of course appropriate to point that out. Someone here's going to have a sort throat again someday when we do away with masks, and it might be useful to know.

Btw, I learned while checking out tRump's medical specultions that regular bleach in appropriate heavy dilution can also be used as a gargle and tooth rinse, even though big no to hs suggestions for its use.

[Ritabert]

9. The average person is not discriminating

....between the "gargle" and the topical antibiotic. OTC Betadine is 100 times too strong for gargling. And as with horse ivermectin people aren't aware of dosage.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

11. Drugs.com page on Povidone Iodine Solution.....

which is sold under many trade names including Betadine.

Povidone Iodine Solution
Dosage form: topical solution
Drug class: Antiseptic and germicides, Vaginal anti-infectives
Medically reviewed by Drugs.com. Last updated on Jun 21, 2021.

Link: https://www.drugs.com/pro/povidone-iodine-solution.html

And, this summary from Wikipedia:

Povidone-iodine (PVP-I), also known as iodopovidone, is an antiseptic used for skin disinfection before and after surgery. It may be used both to disinfect the hands of healthcare providers and the skin of the person they are caring for. It may also be used for minor wounds. It may be applied to the skin as a liquid or a powder.

Side effects include skin irritation and sometimes swelling. If used on large wounds, kidney problems, high blood sodium, and metabolic acidosis may occur. It is not recommended in people who are less than 32 weeks pregnant or are taking lithium. Frequent use is not recommended in people with thyroid problems. Povidone-iodine is a chemical complex of povidone, hydrogen iodide, and elemental iodine. It contains 10% Povidone, with total iodine species equaling 10,000 ppm or 1% total titratable iodine. It works by releasing iodine which results in the death of a range of microorganisms.

Povidone-iodine came into commercial use in 1955. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. Povidone-iodine is available over the counter. It is sold under a number of brand names including Betadine.

I remember using iodine on cuts as a kid and some people diluted it in water and drank it periodically for stomach ulcers.

Most of us have the clearest memories of Povidone Iodine as the orange stain left by disinfecting swabbing over a large area prior to surgery or treatment of serious skin wounds.

I have read that excessive gargling can actually backfire, as it strips the throat of a protective layer of acidic saliva/mucus that is normally carried into our stomachs where bacteria and virus particles are denatured.

KY

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. You have a point

I don't have any real quarrel with people who are paranoid about getting Covid, who attempt to safely and responsibly utilize all harmless means to prevent it that have some legitimate standing as a good health practice. Using Betadine as a gargle as directed by the manufacturer might qualify as that. I take Vitamin D for added protection against Covid, upon the advice of health care practitioners who I trust, and I am fully vaccinated That's the point I think. It seems most of those who are turning to Betadine hoping to find protection against Covid are refusing to get vaccinated against it. THAT IS THE CRAZY AND MOST DANGEROUS PART: people desperately seeking out things that they can do to protect themselves instead of getting vaccinated (or wearing a mask.) If vaccinated people who wear masks in public settings want to also gargle with Benadine as directed in the strength designed for gargling, they can have at it as far as I'm concerned.

[markie]

13. the problem is...

the anti-vax crowd continues to make excuses and substitutions for the thing/s (Vaccination and mask wearing) that is absolutely necessary to bring an end to all the suffering... iodine is just another cheap way of excusing themselves...

there is NO logic in this substitution for doing the right thing

[Klaralven]

16. It might have started with this letter in "Journal of Otolaryngology - Head & Neck Surgery"

Povidone-iodine solution as SARS-CoV-2 prophylaxis for procedures of the upper aerodigestive tract a theoretical framework

Background
The COVID-19 pandemic has raised concerns of inadvertent SARS-CoV-2 transmission to healthcare workers during routine procedures of the aerodigestive tract in asymptomatic COVID-19 patients. Current efforts to mitigate this risk focus on Personal Protective Equipment, including high-efficiency filtration as well as other measures.

Because the reservoir for SARS-CoV-2 shedding is in the nasopharynx and nasal and oral cavities, the application of viricidal agents to these surfaces may reduce virus burden. Numerous studies have confirmed that povidone-iodine inactivates many common respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-1. Povidone-iodine also has good profile for mucosal tolerance. Thus, we propose a prophylactic treatment protocol for the application of topical povidone-iodine to the upper aerodigestive tract.

Conclusion
Such an approach represents a low-cost, low-morbidity measure that may reduce the risks associated with aerosol-generating procedures performed commonly in otorhinolaryngology operating rooms.

https://journalotohns.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40463-020-00474-x

[hlthe2b]

17. "may reduce the risks associated with aerosol-generating procedures performed commonly in

otorinolaryngology operating rooms."

Does NOT suggest having a systemic effect on preventing COVID infection, but rather to prevent aerosolization to others or contaminating equipment and rooms.

[hlthe2b]

18. What the dilute gargle product IS designed for (and is NOT for systemic infections/preventing COVID)

While I focused on the toxicity issues earlier (upstream) from those among the general public who don't understand the differences in the OTC products--some of which are at least 100x too strong for undiluted use, it is important to understand what the dilute gargle solution is meant to do (and what it CANNOT do).

This dilute product is meant to have a short-term local effect on tissues of the mouth (including teeth, gums, tongue, sublingual tissues, and oropharynx-- including the tonsils-- as with tonsillitis. There it can most certainly have a temporary killing effect on bacteria and inactivation of viruses. It has no systemic effect against respiratory viruses, whether influenza or COVID-19.

Betadine solution does not reach the lungs to any significant degree by gargling a dilute solution and respiratory viruses, including COVID-19 are inspired in the considerable volume of your breathed-in air directly to the lungs, whether you breathe through the mouth or the nose. Your breath does not take a time out by way of the mouth before being forced into the lungs. So, even if you gargled as soon as you were in contact with an infected person, it would have no effect, except to disinfect your mouth. That is not what it CAN do nor what it was designed for. Not to mention the mucus membranes of your eyes is another route for COVID-19 and the use of even an insufficiently dilute betadine solution in the eyes can cause severe burning (keratitis) which, though usually recoverable, can lead to permanent scarring.

Only a vaccine or monoclonal antibodies (or a nebulized form of an antiviral designed for such use) can prevent replication of that breathed-in virus in the lungs.

We aren't talking about using this product with tonsillitis or other localized mouth infections-- where it could have some topical benefit. And to promote it in any way to prevention of COVID-19 is misleading at best and dangerous.

Please can we stop doing this?

[Beastly Boy]

19. The label says it is to be used to treat sore throat.

It is a topical treatment, and its effects are local, in other words it may kill or inhibit some viruses present in the throat at the time of gargling. It does not develop immunity to any viruses. The rate of effectiveness in killing the viruses is not listed. It does not claim protection against viruses, only reduction in a single symptom - sore throat. Most alcohol-based gargles can claim the same effect.

For my money, I would rather go with a horse dewormer to fight COVID.

[NurseJackie]

20. Clorox bleach and Lysol are anti-viral too, right?

Personally, I think it's a cheap shot to be castigating folk for gargling with Betadine when the label very clearly says.....AntiViral.

Oh good grief! Cheap shot?

Clorox bleach and Lysol are anti-viral too, right? Look! It even says so, right there on the label! So does this mean we should not take "cheap shots" at those who drink Clorox and suck-on Lysol wipes?

These jackasses need to be ridiculed. They deserve every "cheap shot" that's hurled in their direction.

[milestogo]

21. Use chlorox on a laptop or tablet?

[NurseJackie]

23. When it's got to be TRULY clean! 😂🤣😂😜

[milestogo]

25. Like it was used for porno searches...

[NurseJackie]

31. Or to send anonymous cyber-stalking, threats and harassing emails.

[marie999]

30. The difference is that Betadine is a mouthwash.

Many people use mouthwash, but that doesn't excuse people who don't get vaccinated.

[NurseJackie]

33. I remember when Listerine mouthwash was marketed as a "cure" for colds...

... and then it wasn't.

From 1921 until the mid-1970s, Listerine was also marketed as preventive and remedy for colds and sore throats. In 1976, the Federal Trade Commission ruled that these claims were misleading, and that Listerine had "no efficacy" at either preventing or alleviating the symptoms of sore throats and colds. Warner-Lambert was ordered to stop making the claims, and to include in the next $10.2 million worth of Listerine ads specific mention that "Listerine will not help prevent colds or sore throats or lessen their severity."[11] The advertisement run by Listerine added the preamble "contrary to prior advertising".[12]

1954

1970

[KentuckyWoman]

22. I don't care

These idiots won't take a vaccine but will try every other damned hairbrained idea they see flash across social media without question.

They managed to hit on one that maybe if done exactly correctly might be an actual treatment for something somewhere. Big deal. They are still idiots.

These are the same idiots that repost "like and share in the next 10 seconds and you will be rich tomorrow". IDIOTS.

and I say this knowing I'm not exactly the brightest bulb in America.

[NurseJackie]

24. Exactly! If only they'd keep their stupidity to themselves... I'd be happy to let them die in silence.

Exactly! If only they'd keep their stupidity to themselves… I'd be happy to let them die in silence. But they SHARE and FORWARD and propagate their lunacy to others. They must be stopped. They won't respond to authority. They have no respect for science. So their simple tadpole or salamander brains will perhaps respond to public humiliation and ridicule.

[Elessar Zappa]

27. So?

They’re still idiots.

[cadoman]

29. masks and vaccinations are the scientifically proven way to end COVID-why are we talking about this?

If the CDC changes their recommendations I'm on board but we literally have the settled science of masking and vaccination which are proven as the way to end COVID once thresholds are reached.

All we need is the mandate (which is coming) and then this is over.

Stop overthinking this. Mask up. Get your friends to mask up. Support mask-mandating businesses. Vax up. Get your friends to vax up. Support vax-mandating businesses. Once the mandate comes, turn in people who aren't masked or vax'd for cash.

[madville]

34. Just like there is a logical use for Ivermectin

A drug or treatment can have both a safe and legitimate use and be detrimental for other things at the same time.

I've seen people flat out state that Ivermectin is poison for humans. It's a nobel prize winning anti-parasite drug that is very safe for that use in the proper dose, around 4 billion doses have been given in the last 30 years and it has saved millions of lives. Does it cure COVID or reduce symptoms? Current indication is probably not, but Oxford University is conducting a legit clinical trial now so we should get a definitive answer soon (that some will either embrace or dismiss based on their preconceived notions).

Many are so polarized and extreme now, it's either a miracle drug that that is being suppressed or a poison that is killing people, there is no middle ground.

[Ritabert]

35. If they want to experiment with a real anti-viral

....experiment with L-Lysine which stops a cold sore in its tracks if taken at the first twinge. Now HSV1 isn't Covid but it might bear looking into.