Here is an amazing letter that was in this morning's Columbus Dispatch.

[mwb970]

Socialists are destroying the middle class

As a member of the so called middle class I have a message for the Democrats. When a trip to the grocery store results in having to pay $4.29 for a box of saltines, there soon may be no middle class.

Come to think of it, maybe that's just what you Socialists are hoping for?

Kathy Timbrook, Reynoldsburg

So many things wrong in such a short letter! It's kind of amazing.

Why is the price of saltines higher than it was? Supply and demand? No. Supply chain issues due to COVID? Nope. Shortages of necessary ingredients? Uh-uh. Transportation issues? Shortage of truck drivers? No and no. Give up? It's socialism.

Yes. The same socialism that is destroying the "so called" middle class. WHAT? Socialism is all about the middle class. Capitalism is destroying the middle class as it pumps money from the bottom 99% up to the tippy-top. We don't even have socialism, although like all western economies there are socialist elements present to ameliorate the inevitable harsh outcomes (i.e. death) that would result from pure capitalism.

Hey, Kathy. Medicare is socialist. Did Medicare raise the price of your saltines? Public parks and libraries, police and fire departments, public transport, all of these are socialist. Which of these caused the saltine price to go up?

Sorry, this letter apparently drove me mad. Thanks for listening.

/rant

[Scrivener7]

1. Don't tell us, write that back to the paper in reply to Kathy.

(It's a good answer.)

[BlueMTexpat]

51. This!

Absolutely this!

[geardaddy]

57. +1

[panader0]

2. I'm going to agree with Scrivener7. Don't let Kathy go uneducated, or others in Columbus.

[SergeStorms]

42. It's impossible to educate these people.

They're dug in. Their minds are made up and nothing is going to change them.

They heard this from some right-wing politician, some friend they believe is intelligent, some family member, some church lady.....some other misinformed fool who has no idea what they're talking about.

They're all going to have to get the virus, and hopefully they'll die, because if they don't they'll do something equally stupid again.

This is full-contact idiocracy. They need to be removed from gene pool.

[blueinredohio]

55. You may not be able to educate them

but it shuts them up for awhile. I've made a few replies myself.

[2naSalit]

3. I agree with 1 and 2 above.

[The Magistrate]

4. One Wonders, Sir, Where This Person Is Shopping

Saltines are not an item we often buy, so I did a quick look-see regarding prices here in the big city, and prices for a pound range from two and a half dollars for the premium brand to less than a dollar for a generic brand.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

6. The generic ones aren't free-range crackers. NT

[The Magistrate]

8. This Person Sounds Like A Cracker Ranging Free, Sir

People who clutch their pearls over socialism would view 'cage confined' as a selling point....

[reACTIONary]

33. +10 nt

[Martin Eden]

66. What we do know for certain, is ...

The cheese has slipped from the cracker of those magazines fools.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

5. They're a lot cheaper at Aldi. NT

[niyad]

7. A dollar at Dollar Tree.

[lambchopp59]

34. Not much more at Dollar General, and

Then my dollar isn't going towards RWNJ organizations. Tree and Family, owned by the same Trumper nutjobs. DG, just the opposite.
I cringe that Family is the only store near my retirement plan location. Only dire need purchases, then put it on the list for the urban shopping trip.

[PatrickforB]

9. Maybe you should write a counter letter. I don't know about the Dispatch,

where it leans, but no editor worth his/her salt should have printed that letter. Still, it WAS short, and that's what these people apparently look for, because they believe the average American is incapable of reading something written in, say, a five-paragraph essay format.

[ECL213]

18. The Dispatch is generally a conservative mouthpiece.

[luvs2sing]

25. They're a whole lot better than they used to be..

back when the Wolfe family owned them.

[Bettie]

10. I bought saltines this week

2.50ish for name brand, 1.75ish for the store brand.

Overall groceries have gone up in the last couple of years, but that's about capitalists, not socialists.

[luvs2sing]

26. Zesta saltines..

my favorite, $2.99 at a Columbus Kroger last week.

I think I’ve seen crazy LTEs from this woman before.

[NJCher]

11. ???

How do you get it wrong on so many levels?

[rurallib]

12. Whe you write your response you might throw in the huge salaries

of management and CEOS while workers get peanuts.

[Historic NY]

13. Socialism is the hammer words coming from the mouths of Republicans

We don't see many retorts from Democrats. They better start soon, its on the lips of Republicans far and wide.

[plimsoll]

27. You are correct, but what would you propose?

A reasoned approach will just come across to them as being "attacked by the intelligent educated class." That is an actual quote made during the run up to Kitzmiller vs. Dover. So that is a conundrum; you can try to point out the errors in blaming socialism for the ills of a monopolized grocery system and capitalism but get accused of attacking them because by being educated, or you can treat it with the contempt it deserves and ignore it.

A large swath of the right has entered an epistemologically closed universe, they're told that X is bad by their leaders so X is bad. Doesn't matter what X is, it's bad. Have you noticed that they call people who disagree with them are "sheeple," or "snowflakes" the projection is painful to watch but very real.

So, I agree the Democrats need to counter that but it's going to be a very fine needle to thread, and the original author is probably not the target of the counter. They're already lost.

[lambchopp59]

37. Sheeple... that follow Tucker Carlson's whims.

Tucker (pph'd): "Don't take the vaccine, my faithful minions!!! Don't do as I do, do as I say!!! Otherwise, "they" OWN you."
Zombie fux.

[Historic NY]

46. Well since most came they are socialist, wouldn't one think

That they differentiate between socialist and socialism. Most people think of socialists in a bad way think back to the beginning of the 20th century. There doesn't seem to a messaging coming from the DNC or others...

[plimsoll]

60. Well, plenty of folks have pointed out that Social Security is a "socialist" program.

That Dwight Eisenhower supported it, that Germany introduced prior to WWI.

All that is actual socialism, not the fabricated boogieman living in their heads. Social Security is good Socialism is bad, therefore Social Security can't be socialism because socialism is bad.

There are actually pretty easy ways to message this, but they are ugly and the GOP reacts strongly when you start calling them the cat food coalition when they cut or change the way social security is calculated or pillaged the trust. I agree we need to play hardball, but we've become a squeamish.

Idaho has started implementing rationing of medical care because of Covid. We should be calling them death panels, oh wait that's partisan. Funny it wasn't partisan when it was directed at Democrats, and these actually are death panels.

I think you could word a response in a way that makes it clear that the original author is using words in a way that renders her opinion incoherent. She and the folks who bought into that idiotic opinion will be livid for being called idiots, but the people who can be swayed probably won't be swayed when you say, "That really doesn't make any sense, what were you trying to say."

[druidity33]

70. When assaulted with the sentiment...

"It's all the fault of those dang Socialists!" I follow up with... "What is it about Socialism that you don't like?". Very few people can articulate a single coherent response. Freedums somehow fit into it...

[FakeNoose]

14. This woman demonstrates that she's a terrible shopper

She could have gone to the Dollar Store, and she could have bought saltines for ... $1.00.

[SouthernDem4ever]

15. Maybe she shops for groceries at Nordstroms

[Rabrrrrrr]

62. Or Skymall.

[left-of-center2012]

16. "$4.29 for a box of saltines"

I just checked my local grocer online

'Nabisco Premium' saltines are $2.88 a regular sized 16 oz box.
Store brand is $1.08
I actually prefer their store brand.

And that’s ‘delivery’.

[haele]

29. The local artisanal/organic/local foods store has a one pound box for $3.75.

Organic saltines made with whole grain flour. Plain white saltines are 25 cents cheaper -or you can get bulk for $2.50 a lb after picking out the broken ones...

The Keto/Paleo saltines are $5.00 for a half pound, but you're paying for "Keto" and Almond flour.

There's an imported Water Cracker tube with cracked pepper and sea salt for $6.99...kind of like a saltine, I guess.
(We went shopping this weekend and needed crackers for some of their specialty soups, but settled on a bag of oyster crackers for $1.85.)

And this is in a toney part of San Diego, CA, where everything but avocados and fruit are a bit more expensive than in, say Duluth or Omaha.

Haele

[left-of-center2012]

31. Two points ...

1. I suspect the quoted article was referring to 'regular' saltines.

2. Where is this 'toney part' of San Diego, CA ?
I lived in San Diego for 20 years, mostly around 10th and University
and later near 30th and El Cajon. Although nice, my areas weren't the 'toney part' of which you speak.

[haele]

38. Jensons on Catalina Blvd in Pt. Loma.

An occasional right after payday treat. If you lived in Hillcrest and North Park, there's a couple high end wine, cheese, and local produce and butcher "bodegas" scattered around the various gentrified communities. Not to mention the IGAs that are scattered around the working communities.

Barron's is a great local grocery chain organic produce for regular grocery store prices (without coupons prices). Very much like the old Henry's before they got bought out.

Jarle

[left-of-center2012]

65. I moved away 20 years ago. ,n/t

[Maeve]

36. Kroger shows Premium saltines for $4.29

Zestas for $2.79 and Kroger brand at $1.29 for a 16 oz box

She needs to discuss the problem with Nabisco.

*prices taken from my Kroger app in the Columbus area

[Treefrog]

68. I just checked some stores in NC.

I couldn’t find anything more than 2.88.

[Farmer-Rick]

17. A willfully ignorant fool

Who doesn't know we live in a capitalist economy and can't even get the price of saltines right.

Kathy sounds like a very weak minded person.

[Walleye]

19. One thing you can count on with right wingers is that they lie.they bought one cracker at a time

Socialism is an oldie but goodie for these nuts

[Wounded Bear]

20. Dems in office, RW buzzwords abound...

happens every time.

[Alien Life Form]

21. One of the greatest scams of all time.

Republicans convincing millions that they represent the middle class..

[Maine Abu El Banat]

22. They bitch about Socialism

But can't tell when the free market is working properly. 40 years of Republican education cuts.

[Mr. Evil]

23. Typical pretzel logic from a conservative.

These are the same people that believe we have the best health care system in the world.

If she needs cheap saltines so damn bad she can get them at Aldi for only $0.75!

[Floyd R. Turbo]

24. Aisle 27 $1.49. With a digital coupon $.75!

[bottomofthehill]

54. Must be shopping at Whole Foods.

At my Target I think the store brand saltine is 1.29 ish and premium saltines are 2.49. I miss the Zesta saltines of my youth. We ate a lot of peanut butter crackers on trips in the car as a kid. My mom would bring a box of saltines ans a jar of PB. My dad would only stop for gas and to pee, we never bought food on the road.

[Cozmo]

28. Consider the source, I'm sure this letter was well received

[The Jungle 1]

30. Corporate welfare is socialism!

This country spends way more on socialist corporate welfare than we spend on social welfare.
If the great system of capitalism works then the manufacture of the 4.29 box of saltines will be replaced by a more efficient manufacturer of saltines. But that won't happen because corporate welfare will prop up the present manufacture of saltines.
Ever wonder why we are unable to buy gas that does not contain alcohol. If this is a free market then gas without alcohol should be available. The entire ethanol market is socialism created by W and the republicans. The farmers get socialist farm welfare the ethanol producers get a guaranteed market. The blenders get the "blender's credit," which gives ethanol blenders registered with the Internal Revenue Service a tax credit of 45 cents for every gallon of pure ethanol they blend with gasoline. The entire system is a socialist corporate welfare ponzi scheme which the right refuses to even talk about. Keep in mind this is just one example of socialist corporate welfare. So who pays for the healthcare of Walfart employees? We do it is indirect socialist corporate welfare. Walmart and McDonald’s are among the top employers of beneficiaries of federal aid programs like Medicaid and food stamps according to GAO. WHY is this OK?
I have had a lot of fun with my younger friends. They often think SS should be cut back or ended. I offer to end all SS. Pay me the money I paid in and a fair interest rate and we are done. But the catch is I will no longer pay for your kids education. The only people who will pay are people with kids. My state depends on property tax to pay for education. I own several properties. This would be a break even deal for me. My friends will never admit that public education is socialism! So is SS.
Generally Americans do not want socialism except for the socialism they benefit from and corporate America loves socialism.

[Farmer-Rick]

64. What you describe is more like inverted totalitarianism

Where corporations and government join to control markets and squeeze the citizenry. It is inverted because the government is Not in control but the corporations are.

Here's a link to a book on it. https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691178486/democracy-incorporated

It's not really socialism because socialism usually, but not always, puts the power in the hands of the masses.

Though honestly a lot people do identify it as socialism for the rich. No economy is really all one thing anymore.

I think we definitely aren't a real capitalist country because capitalism usually doesn't include giving handouts to the rich.

[The Jungle 1]

69. Oligarchy?

I stick with socialism because it is the current right wing boggy man. You are correct a real debate can be entertained to pigeon hole us.
I am no rocket scientist but I think it is important to frame and present our arguments at a level the right will understand. Fact is we can't get them to take a vaccine to save their lives. So I am not sure we can communicate with them at all.
I know when I have used the socialist corporate welfare argument it messes with their head. They have no answer.

This is the definition I like use.
a system or condition of society in which the means of production are controlled by the state.

[Grins]

32. Socialism is as American as violence.

Some choose not to see it.

[reACTIONary]

35. I would normally recommend not taking the bait...

... and argue for "socialism" in response. But given the stupidity on display in this letter, such a response (suitably qualified, as you did) is just fine.

[BidenRocks]

39. Try Food 4 Less

When you go to Sprouts or Whole Paycheck, what do you expect?

[Eyeball_Kid]

40. Robert Reich reportedly made a recent statement...

in which he said that even Democrats are reluctant to TAX BILLIONAIRES according to their accumulated wealth.

So I don't get it. The party in which it's alleged to be socialist carves out a special allowance to billionaires to retain their wealth tax-free. That doesn't sound like socialism. It sounds like placing a very high value on greed.

[C OH Dem]

41. Well said

Now take the time to submit it to the Dispatch.

[Jon King]

43. CEO of the saltine company makes 351 times what an employee does.

CEO pay has gone from 10 times the amount of the average employee 50 years ago to 351 times in 2020. Perhaps Kathy should factor executive pay in to her angry rant about pricing.

[radical noodle]

44. We bought Publix saltines last week

for $1.91 for a four-pack box. She's either fear-mongering or she got ripped off.

[Ilsa]

48. Publix will offer Saltines, even national brands,

at BOGO free every couple of months, and more frequently during colder months, from what I've noticed.

[TeamProg]

47. mwb970 - You've already written a reply letter - please send it to the Editor.

And then keep those letters going to the Editor and other local papers.

[Martin68]

49. What passes for logic and insight in the Trumpist world is no longer something a sane person

can understand.

[Martin68]

50. It occurs to me that the Fed allowed inflation to rise a little to adjust a market distorted by

two years of pandemic, and this guy probably thinks the Fed is a communist plot.

[brooklynite]

52. The author is wrong about socialism, and so are you.

Socialism is not a set up generous safety-net programs or public services. Its an economic model that dictates public ownership of means of production.

If you're going to change the definition, you don't have a claim to criticize the other side when they do it.

[CrispyQ]

53. In a pure capitalistic system there would be no "socialist" bailouts for failing companies.

The all knowing market would force them out of business. What we have is privatized profits & socialized risk.

Socialism is their new scare word & the base has embraced it with fervor. In an online exchange about the scientific method, a repub said the problem was that too many scientists are paid by government, which is democratic-socialist agenda to twist the truth for monetary gain.

[Jon King]

56. Mondelez CEO actually made 544 times what his average worker did.

The Saltines company CEO made even more than I thought. The average CEO makes 351 times what their average employee makes. The Saltine CEO goes way further than that, 544 times. And there are 10 other executives making boat loads of money in addition to him.

Kathy and others continue to vote against their own best interests. Executive pay being obscene is why her crackers are expensive.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

58. Do you know who instituted the first socialized medicine?

It was that most conservative of German Reichskanzlers, Prince Otto von Bismarck. He did it -- along with a government-paid old age pension scheme and a long-term disability program -- for two reasons: First, those three were major planks of the Socialist Party platform and he was willing to steal their thunder. Second, he thought they were good for the German people. The current German versions of all three are descended from Bismarck's programs.

[jaxexpat]

61. Why do they print the letters done in crayon?

[Grins]

63. If you reply back...

…skip the price of Saltines. That’s not the issue/important. It’s that she doesn’t know what the hell she is talking about.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

67. Tell Kathy you will sell her all the saltines she wants for $4 a box.

When she places her order, go to Kroger and buy them for $1.29 per box.....

If she insists on Zesta, they're $2.79.......

KY