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Nevilledog

(51,005 posts)
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 10:52 AM Sep 2021

The Pentagon Inches Toward Letting AI Control Weapons






https://www.wired.com/story/pentagon-inches-toward-letting-ai-control-weapons

Last August, several dozen military drones and tanklike robots took to the skies and roads 40 miles south of Seattle. Their mission: Find terrorists suspected of hiding among several buildings.

So many robots were involved in the operation that no human operator could keep a close eye on all of them. So they were given instructions to find—and eliminate—enemy combatants when necessary.

The mission was just an exercise, organized by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, a blue-sky research division of the Pentagon; the robots were armed with nothing more lethal than radio transmitters designed to simulate interactions with both friendly and enemy robots.

The drill was one of several conducted last summer to test how artificial intelligence could help expand the use of automation in military systems, including in scenarios that are too complex and fast-moving for humans to make every critical decision. The demonstrations also reflect a subtle shift in the Pentagon’s thinking about autonomous weapons, as it becomes clearer that machines can outperform humans at parsing complex situations or operating at high speed.

*snip*



It's almost like these people have never see The Terminator.
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Pentagon Inches Toward Letting AI Control Weapons (Original Post) Nevilledog Sep 2021 OP
Well, there's a sobering thought Spider Jerusalem Sep 2021 #1
Apparently they have not seen Terminator sarisataka Sep 2021 #2
Exactly right PJMcK Sep 2021 #6
Autonomous AI Drones and Killing Machines are the future. bluewater Sep 2021 #3
As someone who works on automation in military aircraft.... Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #8
Swarming Autonomous AI Drones are the near future. bluewater Sep 2021 #11
See reply 10. Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #14
see my updated previous post. bluewater Sep 2021 #15
The "loyal wingman" drones... Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #16
"I suspect the "loyal wingman" phase will last a long time." bluewater Sep 2021 #17
20-30 years... Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 2021 #4
This is click-bait... Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #5
Swarming Autonomous AI Drones will be a game changer on the battlefield bluewater Sep 2021 #7
I think that is true... Happy Hoosier Sep 2021 #10
Skynet? roamer65 Sep 2021 #9
I'm just here for the freak outs BannonsLiver Sep 2021 #12
You need to embrace our coming Autonomous AI Killing Machines bluewater Sep 2021 #18
Yeah, if all you want to do is go in and blow shit up, robots are just fine for that... Wounded Bear Sep 2021 #13
Is it AI that resulted in . . . people Sep 2021 #19
I don't think so robbob Sep 2021 #25
So in the future when AI is used in a war marie999 Sep 2021 #20
I'll take this with a grain of salt, as most things described as AI do not warrant the label Amishman Sep 2021 #21
AI and Artificial Sentience are different by a huge degree, true bluewater Sep 2021 #22
What could possibly go wrong.... Bettie Sep 2021 #23
if you want to get lost for a while, google swarm theory or swarm inteligence..... getagrip_already Sep 2021 #24

PJMcK

(21,995 posts)
6. Exactly right
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:12 AM
Sep 2021

No kidding, much of the advances in science and technology have been prophesied by science fiction writing and films, (which are also written, of course).

Since Artificial Intelligence is so profoundly opaque and not understood, these steps by the military need to be very carefully implemented.

After all, life is often stranger than fiction.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
3. Autonomous AI Drones and Killing Machines are the future.
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:04 AM
Sep 2021

Manned fighter aircraft will be going the way of WWI biplanes, the vaunted F35 will be obsolete within 7 years.

Those doglike robots are THIS close to becoming autonomus machine gun and bomb toting death machines.

Things are changing that fast.

What a wonderful world, eh?

Happy Hoosier

(7,215 posts)
8. As someone who works on automation in military aircraft....
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:13 AM
Sep 2021

I can say that 7 years is a pipedream.

Automation in aircraft is complex, even for some relatively simple tasks. We can (and have) automated some things. But full tactical automation is still a ways off.

The interim step is something we call a "loyal wingman" model where manned fighter has control of 1-3 unmanned air vehicles, for surveillance and target designation, or SEAD missions.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
11. Swarming Autonomous AI Drones are the near future.
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:19 AM
Sep 2021

I take your point, but technology is prone to abrupt and immense acceleration, especially military tech.

A drone swarm can be effective in combat because quantity has a quality all its own, to quote Joseph Stalin.

Programing a drone swarm would actually be easier than tying to program a single aircraft to replace a human pilot because the swarm tactics can be more basic.

but OK, call it 10 years away.

Joking. Mostly, Well, not really. The future is coming fast.

Thanks for the discussion.

And you are right, those wingman jet drones are exactly the intermediate step that will have immense impact very soon. Those type of supersonic jet drones, not the toy drones people are used to seeing, are exactly what I see replacing manned fighters. No need to train pilots, capable of pulling more g-forces, probably smaller cross-section and designed to be cheaper and disposable in battle, make them inevitable. IMHO. lol



bluewater

(5,376 posts)
15. see my updated previous post.
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:37 AM
Sep 2021

We are not actually disagreeing (much), I am just being more lighthearted about it.

Thanks for the discussion.

Happy Hoosier

(7,215 posts)
16. The "loyal wingman" drones...
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:40 AM
Sep 2021

The trick is always judgement and intuition. Real pilots really do develop an "instinct." Even with machine learning, we find that hard to replicate, at least without creating a potentially dangerous situation. I suspect the "loyal wingman" phase will last a long time. Although the next generation of fighter pilots may be more about managing "loyal wingman" rather than yanking and banking themselves.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
17. "I suspect the "loyal wingman" phase will last a long time."
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:51 AM
Sep 2021

First, thanks for a good discussion.

But what do you define as a "long time"? Serious question. 10 years? 20? 50?

My personal belief is that AI technology will advance incredibly rapidly, making autonomous AI combat drones possible in 10 years.

I could be wrong, but remember that just prior to WWII people thought battleships would be around for a long time too.

Heck it wasn't that long ago people thought a super-computer would never beat a human grandmaster at chess or Go. Now AI engines on commercial pc's can do that.

Military technology advances incredibly fast once an arms race commences, and i believe we are entering an arms race with China.

Cheers.

Happy Hoosier

(7,215 posts)
26. 20-30 years...
Wed Sep 22, 2021, 09:16 AM
Sep 2021

It just takes so long for new technology to become operational in the DoD. One project I am working on has had the basic technology proven for 20 years. We are JUST NOW about to flight test a production-quality prototype.

So once the basic tech is sound and reliable, take on at least 20 years.

Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

Happy Hoosier

(7,215 posts)
5. This is click-bait...
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:09 AM
Sep 2021

we already have some automated weapons systems, like the CIWS, which protects ships from aircraft and missiles. It can acquire, target, and engage targets when it is authorized to do so. Been around for 40 years.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
7. Swarming Autonomous AI Drones will be a game changer on the battlefield
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:13 AM
Sep 2021

The future is coming and we can't top it.

Happy Hoosier

(7,215 posts)
10. I think that is true...
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 11:15 AM
Sep 2021

... but the issues are not a cut and dried as the article suggests.

I work in this area (kinda... I work primarily in automated navigation, not tactical engagement) and although it's fairly easy to deploy a simplistic capability, they are generally very vulnerable.

people

(622 posts)
19. Is it AI that resulted in . . .
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:04 PM
Sep 2021

a drone blowing up an aid worker and his family, including several children, in Afghanistan in our country's last few days there -- mistaking him for a terrorist with a bomb? What about the drone several years ago that mistakenly targeted a wedding party in Afghanistan?

robbob

(3,522 posts)
25. I don't think so
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 02:00 PM
Sep 2021

Those are drones controlled by a human operator. Some of these drone operators have killed literally hundreds of people, and that job takes a heavy mental toll on them. I believe there was a documentary about this a couple years ago.

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
20. So in the future when AI is used in a war
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:08 PM
Sep 2021

where AI believes that we are worse than our enemy they blow us up instead.

Amishman

(5,554 posts)
21. I'll take this with a grain of salt, as most things described as AI do not warrant the label
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:12 PM
Sep 2021

A complex script is not artificial intelligence, and lacks any abstract decision making abilities.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
22. AI and Artificial Sentience are different by a huge degree, true
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:18 PM
Sep 2021

But let's not be dissing AI as being just "complex scripts", AI is more than just that.

Hey, thinking about it, I am not sure if most of human decision making isn't just a "complex script".



getagrip_already

(14,618 posts)
24. if you want to get lost for a while, google swarm theory or swarm inteligence.....
Tue Sep 21, 2021, 12:32 PM
Sep 2021

To get an idea of the complexity of a swarm system. Fascinating, but scary.

You could no more defend against a swarm of small drones than you could against a swarm of angry hornets.

They react individually, but follow the pattern of the collective.

Soon? Look how quickly more conventional drones found there way into combat. Or helicopters. Or tanks. Or missiles.

The adoption and deployment rate is fairly quick; especially when they are net new, and don't have to replace or modify an existing weapon system.

Coming to a sky (hopefully not) near you.

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