How does the average American family afford.....a dog?

[Thtwudbeme]

We adopted a mutt- I wish I could post a picture- he's cute as all get out, and a character- from a shelter in rural NC.

Buddy had chewed his fur, and you could see his spinal cord and rib cage. Last month was our one year anniversary with him. So far we have paid:

$200 adoption fee (we paid more to donate to the shelter)
$600 for his initial veterinary "stuff." He was not neutered, and had an undescended testicle.
HW and flea mess run about $100 a year
$300 for recent checkup, booster shots, bath, toenail trim, etc.

We are so fortunate- I am a librarian, and my husband (JanMichael on DU) is a professional. We have no dependents and make about 150 a year or so- I am happy as a clam with my 2008 Subaru, and neither one of us spends much on "stuff."

Our natural gas bill has almost doubled. New cars are 30 grand. I can't speak to the price of groceries, because we are vegetarians, so our bills there are pretty cheap.

But, tell me....how does the average American afford to have a mutt? A MUTT. A fluffy sweet thing that runs around the house giving unconditional love and happiness....but, nonetheless...a FUCKING DOG?

Having a DOG shouldn't be a luxury.

Having a decent roof over your head shouldn't be a fucking luxury.

Eating shouldn't be a luxury.

We have lost our fucking minds in the US.

[BlueLucy]

1. I took in a feral cat..

It took me months to save for each vet trip. She has bad allergies or something going on now but I have to wait until I have the money to take her.. I know. I would give her to someone who could do better but she's old. I don't want her to live the rest of her life in a cage.

[japple]

27. Try CBD oil. You are giving her a good home. Don't give her away.

It could be anything. She probably has trauma from her former life. Just let her know that you love her.

[raccoon]

80. What is CBD oil? I have a cat. Nt

[tapper]

88. Don't use it.

Cbd oil is an extract from marijuana, I think.

I don’t know if it would be safe or not, but cats are not people. “Hope for Paws”, a rescue group, posted a recent video on YouTube about an injured kitten picked up by a family. Before the rescue group was called, they tried to help her by treating with tree tea oil. She nearly died.

There are probably good cat advice sites on the web, but I haven’t researched them.

— owner of 3 cats

[Betty88]

100. They are very different oils

I don’t know if you can give a cat CBD but never give one tea oil.

[cannabis_flower]

102. CBD for cats

CBD is not tree oil.

https://www.petmd.com/cat/care/cbd-safe-cats

So, Is CBD Safe for Cats?
Based on reports from veterinarians and pet parents, CBD itself appears, on the surface, to be very safe for cats.

Some people report that their pets become sleepy or develop upset tummies, particularly when given very high doses, but these problems resolve when CBD is discontinued or the dose is lowered.

[catsudon]

168. well

i'm having a hard time trying to picture a cat vaping.

vaping is the usual delivery system for cbd, but i think they sell liquid drops too.


cbd is found in marijauna as well as hemp.

[hamsterjill]

94. I do cat rescue and we've learned a few tricks.

Can you elaborate a little on what's going on with this kitty? What kind of allergies does she experience? Loss of hair? Or nasal? Or what?

Bless you SO MUCH for taking her in!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. It's not clear to me...do you think those costs for his vet care are too high, or what?

[Ilsa]

5. Not too high to pay. It's just that

the ability to have a dog, and keep that pet well, has gotten really expensive. How can anyone pay to have a dog if the family isn't bringing in at least $75k in income every year? It doesn't seem possible.

[appleannie1]

96. I live on SS and in the last couple years have had to have 2 old family members sent to heaven.

I still have 3 indoor cats and recently someone dumped a pregnant cat out and she saw the invisible to humans sign that is in my yard saying all strays are welcome. She took up residence on my deck. Took her to the Vet to be spayed and that is when she was found to be pregnant. The local vet refuses to spay pregnant animals. I now have a loving cat and her four kittens in the building that housed my business and is now my oversize garage. I live on less than $35K a year and what I spend on animal food alone is almost as much as my groceries. But the love and company I receive in return is priceless. The only reason I have not gotten another dog is I am near 80 and would probably die before it does and then what? I know my son will take at least one of my cats and find homes for the rest. Meantime the new female will be spayed in about a week and then I will get a local cat rescue to get me an appt. with the vet they use to get the kittens the meds they need at a lower cost. They are too full to take them so I am actively trying to find them homes.
I just wish more people would spay and neuter their animals.

[Ilsa]

106. I have two dogs, both rescues, each spayed or neutered.

Lots of love, but yes, it's expensive.

[Thtwudbeme]

9. What exactly is not "clear" in my post?

The average American can't afford a dog?

[Doc Sportello]

50. It was clear to me

But then I have a dog and have seen how the cost of having one has skyrocketed since I got my first dog 25 years ago. Now when I visit the vet the main goal seems to be sucking as much money out of a vet visit as they can. The previous vet I went to for my dog limping said he needed glucosamine and he had a big jar for only $100. I said I'd see and of course the same stuff online was $50. And he said he would probably need surgery for some little bone I couldn't see on the x-rays. So I sent the x-rays to my vet friend in another state and he said he didn't see anything.

Seems like the vets nowadays are, like everything else, simply out to make as much money as possible regardless of whether people can afford it or not. Which goes to your point that we've gotten to a place where even having a mutt isn't affordable for the average person. And it's about a bigger point that this is true when it comes to housing and medical care for millions.

People who don't have pets or care about them won't get it, but I did. For many people - especially older people or isolated ones - a pet is the only thing in their lives that gives them love and joy. It's something they should be able to afford.

[soldierant]

48. It would depend on where he slives, of course, but I'd say no.

I had to have a cat with an undescended testicle neutered once and the vet tech pointed out it was not unlike doing two operations - a neuter and a spay - on the same animal. That has to cost.

I think the point has nothing to do with veterinary (and other pet related) costs being unreasonably high, but with wages being unreasonably low.

[Thtwudbeme]

70. We make enough money

And you are right- wages are too low.

But, to save for retirement- and afford a decent place to live, food, and clothing- school and office supplies- how much is enough in the US now?

[dflprincess]

134. I'm sure the student loans most vets are paying on doesn't help the care at all.

In the last few months I've helped my niece and her wife with a couple unexpected vet bills. One wasn't too bad, but sadly it was for putting their old dog to sleep. He decided to die while their 3 year old was in middle of a week long hospital stay with RSV & they were worried about those deductibles. Then the 9 month old dog picked up kennel cough at doggie day care (where everyone is suppose to show proof of vaccination). That turned into pneumonia and between the vet visit & his meds it ran close to $700.

I was just glad they got into their regular vet and didn't have to go to emergency - that's where they really gouge you.

[Skittles]

3. you make room for what is important to you

like, pets, and ponying up a few bucks for DU

[Thtwudbeme]

12. So...what is "important?"

Food?

Heat?

The roof being fixed?

How much "room" does one need to make?

What else do Americans need to give up?

[Skittles]

19. do you not know any poor people?

if they have pets, those checkups and medical care needs often are delayed or overlooked if there are other pressing bills to pay.......also, many veterinarians will allow payment plans - I did that myself during my Ramen days----I had been with that vet for a while, and he let me make three payments for an operation on my cat's fractured leg

[Thtwudbeme]

24. I work with Title One students and my

Husband works in housing in government...so, yeah I have met a few hundred or so.

Most vets will not take payment instead offering care credit.

[japple]

31. You're right. Most vets won't take payment plans anymore. They have been stiffed too many times.

Everyone thinks that veterinarians are wealthy. Truth is, every vet I know is living a middle-class life. And they're all working too hard. I have a friend that does about 50 spay/neuter surgeries every week at her low-cost sp/neuter clinic in addition to providing basic vet care. She never gets a day off. She never says no to emergencies or feral cats. She is one of the best vets I've ever known, but she probably won't be able to keep on at this rate. She is dedicated to the mission of low-cost vet care, but she is working herself to death.

[leftyladyfrommo]

171. According to my vet friend the average time a vet

Works is 7 years before they burn out.

[Skittles]

46. perhaps you can ask a few of those hundreds how they manage

yup

[Thtwudbeme]

53. Ya think?

You and I have known of each other for the better part of two decades on DU.

Do you think I don't have a clue how impoverished people live?

Really?

How about some appropriate outrage here about the cost of living instead of this make do horseshit horatio Alger crap?

[jmbar2]

49. I quit having pets because of the cost.

It's not about choosing between the pet and another bill. It was about having enough money to truly care for their physical needs in an emergency, when they need it, as much as they need it.

I was so broke one time, I had to borrow money to have a terminally ill dog put down. I had my second dog rehomed because I could no longer afford the routine vet bills. It was a long time ago, but it still hurts my heart to think of losing those two fur babies.

I just couldn't go through it again. I try to love on everyone else's pets now, but it's not the same. They truly make us better people.

[Grasswire2]

131. yes nt

[hunter]

41. You are awesome.

Kick some ass.

I won't be shamed for the money I've spent on dogs or DU.

[Skittles]

45. I honestly don't think the OP is trying to shame anyone

I too have wondered how people of very modest means can afford, well, lots of things.....not just doctor bills but vet, dentist, etc. I know some poor folk and I know what a juggling act it can be. I try to help them every way I can, especially during this pandemic.

But I DO find it very poor taste if anyone says they cannot understand how someone can spend a lot of money on a pet. I had a boss say that to one of my coworkers one time, while my boss was wearing a two thousand dollar suit....it is true that you will spend money on what is important to you.

[Thtwudbeme]

54. Maybe you should read the post again

My point was....and why in the hell this needs to be stated again is beyond me....is that we live in a country where a pet is a luxury.

Let that sink in.

A dog is luxury.

Not a vacation in an exotic locale.

Not a new Mercedes.

Not a mink coat, or a diamond tennis bracelet.

A dog.

Does that help?

[hunter]

57. My dog stories are intense. Some of them I won't post on DU.

Nothing compared to my people stories.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/112721453

[Thtwudbeme]

69. My post wasn't a "dog story." My post is about the cost of living in the US

Normal family things such as pets- a dog- are now considered "luxuries."

There's a problem here.

[betsuni]

72. We know the country has many problems caused by not enough Americans voting

Democrats, the progressive party, into office. It's why the point of your post isn't clear. What do you want us to say?

[Thtwudbeme]

118. I dunno. You tell me. Maybe it's time to take a damned good look at how much

"bootstraps" in the US cost?

Maybe it's time to start talking seriously about redistribution of wealth instead of this namby pamby "raise the minimum wage" and "affordable insurance" mess?

[Cozmo]

61. Spoken like a true pet owner, thanks!

[hlthe2b]

4. I could not agree more. While I will get slammed for this, I think that those who make under

a certain threshold of income should be able to deduct some medical (veterinary) fees --especially all the preventive care--and some of the general expenses for at least one pet per household from their taxes.

Now, for some of those with kids that I've already gotten twisted up in knots by suggesting this, for an increasingly large percentage of the population (who will never have kids), that pet is their sole "dependent." Having a deduction for that one pet would not only help with the problem of animals needing homes, improve the health of those who adopt them (yes, a wide array of studies confirm), but the cost would really be minimal.


For those making so little that a tax break would not help, there are insufficient charities to help the really impoverished care for their pets, but some do exist. That needs a lot more effort and perhaps some directed philanthropy from those corporations who have profited greatly from the "pet" industry.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. I love this idea

a certain threshold of income should be able to deduct some medical (veterinary) fees --especially all the preventive care--and some of the general expenses for at least one pet per household from their taxes.

We wouldn't qualify - but there might be fewer abandoned animals if folks could get that help.

Our Overlord and Master (he's a Maltese) is a priority for us. He lets us live in his house, sleep in his bed, pay his vet bills, etc etc. The vet bills are a priority.

[Ziggysmom]

42. Amen to that! If America can give corporate welfare to friggin oil companies, it can afford

to allow us to a break on companion animal care. Our fur babies are all some of us have left holding together our sanity!

[Doc Sportello]

52. Great ideas and perspective

As I wrote in another post, sometimes pets are the only emotional connection older people and/or isolated people have in their lives. Having a pet has now become a very profitable industry and made pet ownership difficult for many, so yes, those who profit greatly should do more to help.

[HighFired49]

64. Great post!

Seems like that if a person takes on a pet from an animal shelter those costs should be able to be deducted as a charitable contribution on his/her tax return, plus count the upkeep costs each year for the life of the pet as charitable contributions regardless of income level.

[Kaleva]

67. I haven't made enough to pay taxes in years but babysitting at $4 an hr provides money for our dog

It's going to take close to a month of babysitting to recoup the money spent on the last trip to the vet. A $317.82 bill.

[LakeArenal]

110. Thank you. A pet is a responsibility and a sacrifice.

This reminds me of some early talking points on why welfare need to be cut:

(I’m paraphrasing)

Did you know 93% of poor people have refrigerators?

That 60% have cars?!??

That 55% have cell phones?!??!( this was at the time when activists were finding cell phones for poor people.)

That welfare checks go to booze and pot


This seems so weird getting pushback for having a pet if someone with $150,000 a year thinks it is too costly.

[Thtwudbeme]

113. I wish people would read what I WROTE

I was in no way chastising someone for having a pet. We have had shelter animals for our entire married lives. We love Buddy-

I wrote that we are lucky to make the money we do...did you read that? LUCKY. Not this "We pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps" horseshit.

I wrote about ALL the bills- the heat, the electric- Wish I had mentioned the fucking private water company we deal with.

What you missed was this: A dog- a pet- should NOT be a luxury. They are family. They create happiness.

Luxury should be a new Mercedes or SUV. A new pair of fly-fishing waders every couple of years. Expensive vacations and dinners out...but NOT a fucking pet.

Wish you had read my ENTIRE post before you freaked out over the amount of money we make- and the fact that we think veterinary bills prohibit people from getting pets.

[LakeArenal]

120. You seem to think you wrote something else.

If you have to explain what you meant or said then it’s not me that’s your problem.

[Thtwudbeme]

124. Let me help you out here...as I librarian I work on this with middle schoolers-

So, I copied and pasted this important second half of my post for you:

"We are so fortunate- I am a librarian, and my husband (JanMichael on DU) is a professional. We have no dependents and make about 150 a year or so- I am happy as a clam with my 2008 Subaru, and neither one of us spends much on "stuff."

Our natural gas bill has almost doubled. New cars are 30 grand. I can't speak to the price of groceries, because we are vegetarians, so our bills there are pretty cheap.

But, tell me....how does the average American afford to have a mutt? A MUTT. A fluffy sweet thing that runs around the house giving unconditional love and happiness....but, nonetheless...a FUCKING DOG?

Having a DOG shouldn't be a luxury.

Having a decent roof over your head shouldn't be a fucking luxury.

Eating shouldn't be a luxury.

We have lost our fucking minds in the US."

I hope that helps-

[LakeArenal]

125. Resorting to condescension now?

I taught sixth grade. Big whoop.

[Thtwudbeme]

126. Nope- I was trying to help you

Glad you taught 6th grade and understand the importance of reading things over to see if you missed anything.

Have a good day.

[LakeArenal]

128. I'm having a great day. You are the one all jazzed up.

I’m not the only on with the same opinions.
One might consider there own writing skills before such condescending and excuses of why many don’t see your post as “helping”
anyone.

If you don’t like the way the discussion turned... then don’t post things speaking of what folks choose to afford when they don’t have money like yours.

[Thtwudbeme]

175. "Their own writing skills"

I hate that you missed the last half of my post, even though I posted it twice for you.

I sure hope you are having a good weekend.

[LakeArenal]

178. Ooh a typo. That does prove everything about me.

Got me.

Now read the other comments on your own thread.

Your thread has been according to you, “misread”, “unread”, or whatever you choose to call it, by many others.

You don’t see your own comments as having any impressions but your own.

I don’t know if you think I’m stupid or whatever you are conveying with your condescending attitude then so be it.

If you are so misunderstood and you think it’s purposeful then alert on me.

Said you are done with me so be done with me. You keep this dialogue going not me.

I don’t think you are having as nice a day over your thread as you say you are but that is just my opinion. Opinion you seem to want to force me to change by pointing out your superior qualities as a librarian, writer and spell checker.

Yep you got me. Now see if you can get over it.

[Thtwudbeme]

179. YOU criticized my writing skills

So, I tossed it right back atcha.

I have been reading and responding to others on this thread- I have read every one of them.

I think Democrats need to redefine the vernacular "middle class."

I don't need to "get over" a thing- but, thank you for that suggestion.

[Thtwudbeme]

181. also, DO copy and paste from my posts

which stated that I "said you were done with me."

Thank you.

[LakeArenal]

182. Egads you are so hyped out over little ole me.

Now catch your breath. Quit gnashing your teeth and unclench your fists.

Try putting me on ignore. You just can’t quit me. It’s really very sweet.

PS. Do you know where I can find a lampshade in Costa Rica? Because that’s what I’m doing today.

[Thtwudbeme]

184. Oh, I see. You make accusations and then when I respond I am

"gnashing my teeth" and "clenching my fists."

What a bizarre response.

I probably can help you find a lampshade in Costa Rica. Librarians are generally good at that. Let me know specifically what type, color, size etc....and if you want it shipped or want to go buy it in person. If the latter is the case, I'll need a general location.

[LakeArenal]

187. Oh dear. For all your superior knowledge and grammar,

You accuse me now of being bizarre.

Got me again, did ya? Whew what win for you. But please respond once more so you can have the last word.

Sigh. I know you have to.

[Thtwudbeme]

190. Yes, I DO find you bizarre

I frankly could not care less about you. You add nothing to the conversation that I am interested in.

You only want to insult me- and, well....that's weird.

[Thtwudbeme]

186. One more thing-

You have accused me twice of being "emotional." "Gnashing of teeth," "clenched fists," "too jazzed up"....instead of adding anything to the conversation.

Then you write "You just can't quit me. It's really very sweet."

I will tell you that your responses raise some serious red flags with me- I don't know you, or really know OF you since I don't recall seeing you here before.

Good luck with your lamp.

[LakeArenal]

189. Check my profile that's what you need to know

Red flags to you... alert then. Geez Louise.

[Thtwudbeme]

191. Alert on you for what?

"I think this person is weird?"

Sorry- no.

It's just my opinion- but, yes- I do think your responses are odd as hell.

[Duppers]

68. +100

Pets ARE family.

[hunter]

82. I'd take that a step further:

People who can't afford to care for a pet shouldn't be paying any taxes.

They should, in fact, be receiving a basic guaranteed income high enough that taking care of a pet is not a huge financial burden.

Good government jobs and guaranteed basic incomes ought to be in direct competition with employers who abuse their employees.

We can accomplish this with progressive taxes.

It's only fair. Those who have the highest incomes and the greatest wealth are the ones who receive the most benefits from our society. Obviously they are the ones who should pay for it. Those who struggle to simply survive in this society shouldn't be paying any taxes.

[elias7]

98. Well, you could argue that one should not raise pets or children until one can afford it

The question regarding a guaranteed basic income would be whether one would consider pets (or children) a necessity or a luxury. And if to be subsidized, how to calculate the parameters of minimum and maximum. I think it is a complicated question.

I certainly would never have been able to afford pets or kids in my 20’s, while I was working to build a career. Partnering eases the burden of solitary living and opens up doors to afford things beyond survival living.

[hunter]

167. That argument doesn't work when people are economically oppressed.

Telling people who are economically oppressed that they *shouldn't* have children (or pets) compounds the oppression.

In any case it's in society's best interest to support all children once those children are born, whatever the circumstance.

But otherwise I support realistic sex education for everyone, starting in early grade school, and free access to birth control. I also support the education and economic and political empowerment of women, which can have profound impacts on birthrates.

As for pets, just as with humans, there are too many. Free spay and neuter clinics must be available to all, and breeding animals ought to be discouraged.

Children born to affluent and wealthy families have far larger environmental footprints than the average human. It's a good thing that affluent and wealthy people tend to have fewer children or no children at all.

Pets increase a family's environmental footprint as well. Over the years my wife and I usually have two or three large dogs we've adopted at the animal shelter. Even though my wife is a vegetarian-approaching-vegan, and I'm mostly a vegetarian, we don't expect that from our dogs. I'm afraid to calculate how many "retired" laying hens they've eaten over the years as dog kibble, and what the environmental footprint of that is.

Our children were born when my wife was in grad school. She didn't take time off for that. We were fortunate that we never had to pay for daycare, maybe because I've never been interested in a "career" and always had a flexible work schedule.

Most people suffer work, careers included, that is not making the world a better place. This thing we call economic productivity isn't productivity at all -- it is in fact a direct measure of the damage we are doing to the planet's natural environment and our on human spirit. I think that's the root of the problems discussed in this thread.

[Thtwudbeme]

173. Thank you for this well written response- however a couple of things

I did not tell anyone, nor chastise DUers for owning a pet.

I have noticed something from this thread- everyone arguing, particularly some downthread have been pointing out "sacrifices" families make to own pets. Skittles asked me if I "knew any poor people."

"Average income" to me, always implied middle class. Based on some of the comments here, I have had to walk back my perceptions of "middle class" and "working poor."

The fellow further down thread argued that my fictional family making 60,000 a year COULD give up their Myrtle Beach Pirateland camping trip to own a dog.

If a family has to give up a camping trip to own a pet-- again- my opinion- that qualifies as "working poor."

The very second Michael and I become a two professions/ two income household, I insisted that we live on ONE salary. My fear of having to go back to bartending (and I wouldn't get a job anyway since I am not young anymore) made me start shoving cash in a savings account asap. Therefore, when we needed a new roof (after patching it for years- and that bit me in the ass) we were able to write a check.

Then I was accused of not having a "can do attitude." I would say that working in the bar and going back to school qualified me for that moniker.

I am surprised to see DUers argue that life is just grand in the US as long as one constantly "sacrifices." This thread is the best example I have ever seen to argue for free college tuition and universal healthcare. Our frog in the pot has been getting warmer, and we are still yelling about Republicans and abortions.....and not going to Pirateland with a dog.

BTW, we are vegetarians too- and yes- I think about it every time we open a can of Hund 'n Flocken for Buddy Threadgoode, Jr, or a can of Friskies for Maude.

Thank you for the well written response.

[hamsterjill]

95. I'm totally on board with that!

n/t

[LisaL]

6. Same goes for a cat.

I have an elderly cat. Vet bills are a lot of money, and I believe my vet thinks I grow money on trees.

[Corgigal]

7. It always cost a bit at the beginning,

and we have a 17 year old Chihuahua with grade 5 heart enlargement. The prices are going up for her now because we want her to be as comfortable as she can be. If you can afford it, all you can do is your best. And gets years of love at no charge.

[LisaL]

8. It costs even more in the end.

Elderly animals start having health issues, just like elderly people. Most pets don't have insurance, at least mine doesn't.

[Corgigal]

13. Yep,

Just spend 75 on bloodwork today. New meds shortly, I just want her to pass in her sleep without fear. Will do my best for her. She has earned the right to a good death, and we will try for her.

[Behind the Aegis]

77. And if you do get insurance, it is usually crap!

We have 4 chihuahuas, so we looked into insurance, but it basically covered nothing.

[ProfessorGAC]

111. This!

I looked into it in the past.
I couldn't figure out exactly what we'd be paying the premiums for.
A preventative medince office visit was covered. But, the rest of the benefits were for standard stuff (shots, heartworm test, etc.). But, the cost of those were pretty much the accumulated cost of premiums.
Surgery coverage was basically a discount that one might be able to nehotiate., without the "coverage".
Basically, they're a veterinary budget plan. You pay $50 a month so there's no $500 bill all at once.

[drray23]

10. it also depends where you live

I live in the country. The vet there in that little rural town does not charge anywhere as much as you would pay in the city.

Still, if your pet has any issues the costs can mount up quickly.

[Thtwudbeme]

14. Really? We live in a "one dog town" (Bruce Springsteen reference)

in NC.

I am not bitching about vet prices- I am trying to point out the "happiness factor" in the US.

[Tracer]

11. I'm not sure that $150,000/year is average.

Isn't it more like $60,000?

Or maybe like me, around $35,000 and I still manage to take my dogs to the vet because they are important to me.

They are both rescues from the south, where from my experience, there are quite a few people who never take their dogs to the vet --- instead --- just get rid of them. One of my dogs was found in a ditch (puppy) and the other was found by the side of the road (also a puppy).

[Thtwudbeme]

17. OK, we obviously take our pets to the vet- that wasn't the point

Life in the US has gotten so bad- people cannot afford to own them.

People can barely afford to go to the grocery store.

[Piasladic]

73. that seems like so much money - even for the city

that's like at least four years worth of work I make.

I have a dog and a husband. Our last dog had cancer; we did everything we could. It was one of the saddest times of our life, but money was not our biggest problem.

[QED]

15. I have 8 dogs

on a teacher's salary. Only fur kids. Two of them are on meds, one on prescription food. I manage just fine....but I do wonder about the cost if one should become really sick and the increased costs that come with aging pets.

[Skittles]

20. have you looked into pet insurance

ask the vet which one is best, they would know

[Thtwudbeme]

28. Oh, you mean the extra 50 or more bucks or so

Monthly bill?

People in the US are drowning in debt at this point.

I didn't start this thread to discuss get bills.

My point is that Americans can't afford a fucking dog.

It's a bit deeper than a vet bill.

[Skittles]

119. how about ponying up a few bucks for DU?

OVER AND OUT

[LakeArenal]

132. ✔️❤️

[Thtwudbeme]

145. How about donating to me to buy books for the kids at school?

I just spent another 50 bucks trying to help my kiddos at school develop home libraries. I am not fucking Dolly Parton here, Skittles.

[QED]

79. Pet insurance for mine would be too $$$

They are older now and some are doxies with potential back issues. I did look into it at one point but decided against insurance. My vet's fees are reasonable.

I can't put a price tag on the love and amusement these sweet pups shower me with every day.

[blm]

16. A dog, 2 cats, AND a kid in college here.

Medical bills over the years for the animals have been steep.

I have often asked the vets if they are priced too high for working families to even consider owning a pet. I remember paying $15 for a heart worm shot for my dog to last a year in the 80s. For the last 15years it’s been $13-15 each for one heartworm pill a month.

[SMC22307]

18. I ask myself that almost every day.

I rescued a dog on death row three years ago and he costs more than me and the two cats put together. He was underweight, HW+, un-neutered, and full of worms. Took care of all of that and he's healthy now, but phew, $$$$. Then come the monthly preventatives and Apoquel cuz of his allergies and licking. More money. Professional baths every month cuz I can't wrestle a 54-pound dog in a tub. Thank God the dog park is free, as are the lonnnng walks we go on. He's a good boy but takes up ALL the oxygen in the house so I take him to day camp once or twice or week to give me and the cats a break. MORE money. And if I go away for any period of time, phew, boarding is insanely expensive, as are any dog-sitters who come to the house. Cats are SO much easier.

[LeftInTX]

137. No pets for us

We would get our mother in law to watch our chihuahua when we went on vacation, but the dog had originally been her pet. After she died in 2009 (the dog died, not my MIL), that was it for me.

The dog was my kids' pet and kids were all grown by then.
But we went through 3 dogs before that...All of them were too aggressive with my kids.

[SMC22307]

138. After these three I'll probably adopt just one kitty.

But that's probably another 8-10 years away so who knows.

[LakeArenal]

21. Family is family. Even homeless guys do the best they can for a dog.

Love from a pet is priceless.

[Thtwudbeme]

30. A roof, food, clothing and transportation are priceless too

Nt

[LakeArenal]

32. It's a choice that many make. I don't quite get the point.

Okay you are making many times more money than many people.

There’s rebuttal for the emotional need for a pet.

As a matter of fact, the items you list are not priceless. The have a tangible cost.
The love and support of a loved one, including a pet, are priceless to us on the low end of the income spectrum.

[leftyladyfrommo]

108. Animals are often more important yo the welfare of

Poorer people than to the better off. That dog may be that old ladies only real friend. Left all alone many older people would just shrivel up and die. That animal gives them a reason to get up every day. It gives them someone to talk to. Someone to take care of. A reason to get up and venture outside.

Maybe they can't afford all the fancy expensive new stuff. But they give that shelter dog a home where it is fed every day. A place that's in out of the storm. A person that cares about them and that watches out for them.

Owning an animal is not all about how much you can afford. It's about an important connection to a loving, Living being .

[hunter]

22. Sometimes when my wife visits the animal shelter she'll bring home a death row dog.

At times its been expensive.

We spend more on our dogs than we do on our cars. Gasoline included.

Nevertheless, dogs are usually less trouble than people. Or cars.

[happybird]

23. That's part of the reason I haven't gotten another dog

I’d love to have one but can’t afford it. My cats have cost close to $10,000 over the past 3 years. Multiple surgeries, blood work, prescriptions, specialized food…

I love them but it’s a lot.

[pandr32]

25. This worries me

Dogs are so commonly mistreated and neglected.

[Chautauquas]

26. That's why I don't have a pet

Can't really afford basic care for a dog or a cat and I'd be too worried about big things like dental or surgeries. I've had to settle for occasionally taking care of my daughter's dog when her family goes on trips.

I really wish I could get a dog but it's just not affordable for me.

[BigmanPigman]

29. Dogs can be very expensive....usually due to health bills

JUST LIKE PEOPLE. Meds are off the charts for people and animals. I got dog health insur for my 2nd dog since the first one cost a lot in the last 6 months of her life. The insurance helped but then my dog became middle aged and was not as prone to problems...like playing with a live bee and getting stung or chewing the heating pad cord and electrocuting herself she didn't need it ad much. I canceled the insurance when I had to stop working due to health issues at my workplace. She was healthy in general until a few weeks before she died at 17.

[Maraya1969]

34. Some of the costs are a scam in my opinion. For example it takes 3 months, IF your dog

is bitten by a flea that carries heartworms and he becomes infected for the worms to even get to the heart. Why do they insist on heartworm medicine every month? I have never given my dogs HW every month. And if you live in a cold climate it used to be that you could have them checked once or twice a year and if they were ok they were ok. Again, the heart worms take a long time to grow.

I also wait until I see a flea on one of the dogs to put the flea stuff on them. For one thing it makes them sick for several hours after so I don't' think it is that healthy. Plus I use a flea comb and natural flea wipes.

And I understand there are ways to get free dog and cat food.

I see no reason to give them all the shot every damn year also. It depends if your dogs are around other dogs or what area they live in. I read somewhere that veterinary student get a rabies vaccine when they go to school. They get ONE. Why do out dogs need to get one every 1-3 years? I'll tell you, it is a money maker also and it make money for the community through the licensing process.

Remember that vet's are businesses. I remember when cats didn't get heartworms. How did they all of a sudden get heartworms?

I think people should be educated and not waste money on things that they don't need.

My dogs have all lived long lives, I have 2, 16 year old chihuahuas sitting next to to me right now and I have never had a dog get cancer. I think they has something to do with not giving them a damn anti-parasite drug every single month of their lives.

[The Jungle 1]

35. Distribution of wealth?

Are we really to the point in this country where we question the cost of owning a pet? If we are at that point then we need to have a serious talk about the distribution of wealth. Apparently we have entered another gilded age. We can put an end to it.
I just got home from shooting pool. Harper was thrilled to see me. He hates it when I go out cause I am retired and we spend all day together. Yes he is expensive. But I challenge anyone to find a more loyal friend.
The snapping turtles hatched today. I found two of then and put them in the pond. One I put in the kitchen sink first. He was looking poorly and I soaked him in water till he perked up. Got a bit of a scream from my wife. Nice I still got it. Momma always nests the same spot.

[JanMichael]

51. Ding ding ding. I think we have a winner!

Not many posts on this thread get that. There was energy costs there was vehicle cost there was food costs. Housing prices for both sale and rent could have been added. It is a gilded age and cost of living is out of control. Yes we can afford it (life in this highly imbalanced economy) but we know that so many many many many more cannot.

[Gore1FL]

36. My Dachshund has found himself in the ICU four times in the last seven years.

He and I were attacked and injured by a pit bull the first time. He had a liver infection years later. Right after he recovered from his liver, he had a herniated disk in his neck after he biffed it jumping off some furniture. We had to drive him to the middle of the state for spinal surgery. He is now recovering from another spinal surgery on his back after another injury.

I need him more than I need a new kitchen. I feel fortunate I was saving for one.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Worth it for us

My husband has severe PTSD and our Uncle Ruckus is his heart.

He's also a well trained certified therapy dog who has greatly missed visiting people in medical centers the past year.

And I agree - I feel like the time management alone is a luxury - in addition to the things we do for our Ruckus.

[Thtwudbeme]

114. It's obviously worth it to us also

But, I am sick and tired of feeling like an elite jerk because we can afford two pets.

Many- many of my family and friends cannot- not to mention the people we work with.

[JustAnotherGen]

121. I don't feel like an elite jerk

We always had pets growing up. Including at any given time 6 beagles. It's not a 'right' to be owned by a dog. Prior to Uncle Ruckus we rescued a painted back turtle who had been smashed . . . he was less expensive to take care of, less time consuming, and brought us just as much joy.

[BannonsLiver]

38. We spent $20,000 over 3 years treating 2 different dogs for various ailments.

When they passed on we got insurance for the next 2. Lesson learned. It’s less than human insurance for the uninitiated. Right now we pay about 800 a year to insure both of them.

[Lemon Lyman]

112. Interesting

Do you know roughly (no pun) about how much it saves on an average visit? Does it cover, say, 75% of an average visit?

[BannonsLiver]

123. Our plan reimburses us for 90 percent of expenses.

Our deductible is $1000. But it does not cover routine check ups, vaccinations, teeth cleaning etc. It’s specifically geared toward big ticket things like cancer, or hip and leg problems that require expensive surgeries. There are plans out there that cover those things but we specifically wanted something to cover the larger expenses. The other stuff is manageable for us on an out of pocket basis. But in answer to your question, we had one dog going through chemo and a surgery we would be reimbursed 90 percent of what we paid after the deductible, which was met quickly. We saved several thousand dollars with her policy.

[Lemon Lyman]

127. TY

Thanks for the info!

[cadoman]

39. attitudes about pet care have changed a lot, also city dog vs. country dog

Cities have regulations, tags, fees, licenses, etc. Country dog life is a lot simpler. Often you just adopt dogs that people dump. If you get to the shelter early you can probably just pick up one that someone dumped (yes I live in the south).

The most expensive part of modern pet ownership are later life things like "puppy cancer" and "puppy flu". People used to put their dog down when they hit the skids but now they get elaborate end-of-life care--all the way up to cancer treatment. My parents will take the puppy into the "puppy hospital" more times a year than I've been in my entire life.

If you don't do elaborate medical treatments and ignore the city fees, a dog is still pretty affordable.

[Javaman]

40. They certainly are expensive, but

We decided when ours was a pup to get pet insurance.

We have saved an enormous amount of money.

He’s a mutt too, but is allergic to everything and has stomach issues

He’s ten now and I shit you not when I say we have saved at least 5 to 6 grand over the years because of the insurance

[Rhiannon12866]

43. I go to a clinic that's known my dog since he was a puppy, he's on a "plan" that covers office visits

Semi annual exams and required inoculations and gives a discount on medications. But I still had to pay $146 on a refill of the one med he's currently on. Even with what's covered and the discount on needed meds, I still end up paying a lot, but they know him - and a vet tech who worked there who was helping to foster him knew my other dog (also rescue) - they're the same breed - so contacted me about this "pet shop rescue" puppy who is now 15. His care is a priority for me, but I agree that it's awfully expensive, even with the "plan," which is like pet insurance.

[MyMission]

44. There are low-cost clinics thru ASPCA, humane society, and

Other places like tractor supply. It still costs, but not as much. And it's a hassle, usually involves traveling a distance, and often a longer wait time, but it gets the animals medical care.

At various points I have utilized all those services. In NYC I took my cats to the ASPCA hospital; I've gotten vouchers for low cost spay/neuter services and vaccines, and gone to tractor supply vet Saturday mornings for heartworm screening and meds. I've also gone to vets and paid for care when I was financially able.

Sometimes my animals have not had top quality food, and I felt bad when I've had to skimp and buy a cheaper food. But they always had food. Some people feed their animals table scraps when they are low on funds and the animals go hungry some days. I know someone with a big dog who periodically gets food for him through humane society programs when he's low on funds.

Good question. It is expensive to own a pet. Many people don't realize until they have one how costly it can be. Some animals are given away as a result. But some programs offer medical and food assistance to people so they can keep their animals. We need more programs like those.

[Marthe48]

47. Chewy offers things to get your pet 'game ready'

So even if you can afford the base expenses of pet care, it can go out of control really fast. And when people think teir lives are supposed to be like 90210 or other shows on tv, house, cars, food all go out of control too. I wouldn't buy a team hat for myself, let alone my pet. I'm not much fun, but I have the things I want or need.

Right now, I have 1 old cat. When she uses up her ninth life, I am going to wait to adopt another pet. I'm donating to the shelter, and to a non-profit that is caring for feral cats and the cats and kittens dumped at the local fairground. If I don't adopt, at least I'll be helping some of the shelter pets and some of the abandoned cats.

[JoeOtterbein]

55. Thanks for...

...the donation!

[AverageOldGuy]

56. $3,500 for a dog . . .

Friend of mine has two Yorkies -- little rat-like creatures that contribute nothing to the world but YPI YIP YIP and dog shit.

Few weeks ago, he waked up one morning to hear one of them coughing. Went to investigate, found blood splattered on walls and floor, dog was coughing, spitting out blood.

Hauled the dog 65 miles to emergency vet. $3,500 to fix it -- damn dog had swallowed a couple of paper clips.

He's dumber than the dogs.

----------------------------------

Neighbors' Lab would not stop shitting in my yard. Asked the neighbor to visit. We sat on my front porch, I laid a shotgun on the table between us, told him no more dog shit in my yard. He got the message.

-------------------------------

Friends invited us over. Goddam little poodle ran around the house like a crazy thing, jumped up on wife, then jumped on me. Friend was upset when I kneed the dog to get him off me. We left, not returning. No loss.

---------------------------

And now a couple has moved in down the road from us. They informed all us neighbors they own not 1, not 2, not 3, but FOUR St. Bernards and "Newfiedoodles". SICK, SICK, SICK.

---------------------------------------

[North Shore Chicago]

74. You sound nice

[Behind the Aegis]

76. The last three words of your post sum up your entire post.

[Bantamfancier]

84. Threatening to shoot your neighbor's dog for

doing his business in your yard is SICK.
Are you sure you’re on the correct website?
Better start saving for that stockade fence.

[LakeArenal]

133. So...I think I'd rather the Newfie's next door than you.

[jcgoldie]

165. Hey you kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!

sheesh.

[shrike3]

170. You beat me to it. n/t

[kcr]

169. I hope that neighbor reported you to the police n/t

[tritsofme]

194. I take it you're more of a cat person?

[Tribetime]

58. I adopted a 5 year old dog

The day I brought her home she started coughing she end up having pneumonia for 7 weeks six months later she was poisoned she didn't eat for 35 days on her own 17 days of completely deleting they 18 days of force-feeding I want through several vets trying to find out what was wrong with her and I finally found one who said she's probably going to die but you can try to feed her and I probably spent five to $6,000 in the first year right now she is blind from the diabetes from the poisoning but she is happy

[Tribetime]

59. 900 ain't nothing in 1 yr for a dog

What did yoi expect. It's a family member... if you can't afford that you shouldn't adopt

[Demovictory9]

60. you spend more than that your own comfort and health. why not your dog

[JI7]

62. They are very cheap considering what they bring to the family

[I_UndergroundPanther]

63. Othello my kitty

Has anxiety.
He wears a thundershirt to make him feel better.

But If I had the means and money I would love to give him the anxiety meds that you rub on his ear. Apparently its pricy.


I hate living on 700 bux and some change.

Othello gets the best I can get him.
To some it might not be great. I live alone and Othello the fact I have a responsibility to take care of him,keeps me from suicide.

I've gotten close but everytime I shut a door Othello comes into the room looks at me with those beautiful eyes of his..and it reminds me,Othello and I are in this shitty world together. I owe him not to ruin his life.

He sits next to me as I call my program to talk to the on call therapist there.

Othello has literally saved my life several times.

So, I go hungry if he has no food.

I owe him this and more. I would take a bullet for Othello.

He's much more than an emotional support animal.. he's my best friend.

And he goes to a vet once a year. Luckily the vet is a family friend. This vet took care of all the cats I ever had.

When my cat Rustle had cancer ,it was growing in his chest wall. They opened him up hoping what they saw was a tumor. It was cancer in his chest wall. Thankfully he was not in pain. Vet told me he probably would have died in 3 months. I told the vet dont wake him back up, and sew him shut just to live 3 months in pain. I cried for a long time and gave my sweet Rustle a burial worthy of a pharoh.

[PatrickforB]

65. Don't forget about health care. Yep, 'Murika is a great place to live unless

you are old, poor, sick or different.

This is the land of crummy, rationed healthcare with fanancially crippling copays, medical debt and medical bankruptcies.

We can throw trillions at forever wars, business relief, and irresponsible tax cuts for billionaires and corporations, but we can't afford healthcare.

And did you know, you have to pay INCOME TAX on your social security pension, and my 55 year old colleague won't reach her full retirement age until she's 72. Seventy-two!!!

Might as well work until you die, what the hell!

And Medicare? Part A, Part B, Part D, and supplemental coverage. For God's sake, you've got to lawyer up before even making a decision about Medicare because it is so fucking confusing.

And yet, when I call my Senators and Representative, their staff members make mealy mouth-noises about how we can't afford it. Some people on this site will even tell you that, but the real truth is everyone is scared of the right-wing super pacs who are funded in large part by for-profit health insurance companies. The politicians are scared they won't be reelected, and the insurance companies are unwilling to hold patient interests above, or even equal to, profits.

This is the land of $4 loaves of bread, $4 gas, million dollar homes that are 1,100 square foot bungalows with maybe one bathroom and a carport, and...you fill in the blank.

And now, if you have a heart attack or stroke, there won't be any hospital beds available for you because of unvaccinated COVID patients hogging ICU beds.

But, hey, Republicans owned them libs! They are the part of stupidity, lies, treason, and DEATH. And I don't have much good to say about a few so-called 'moderate' Democrats, so I shall wisely remain silent.

Wouldn't it be NICE, though, if just once in a blue moon, Congress could actually put legislation in place that materially benefits us and our families instead of systematically stripping money from our treasury to route to corporations and billionaires? Universal healthcare not tied to employment? Affordable college? Expanded Social Security so elderly people don't have to eat pet food because they can't afford decent groceries?

One last word - when are we going to raise fucking taxes and TALK ABOUT WHY??? Right now, individual taxpayers pay in about 86% of the government's revenue, and corporations pay in only 6.8%. In 1970 that ratio was more like 45-35, but the massive heist began with Reagan and the supply-siders.

[Xolodno]

66. How? Easy. They sacrifice the well being of their pet.

Both our cats are 16 years old....I live in a rural area and people are shocked by that. Their cats are gone in 8-10 years. They just don't go the extra mile to care for them and never will. Sadly, some of them will let them suffer until they pass.

We don't have pet insurance because the cost for both of them would be higher than the average or $30 per cat due to age, per month. And then there is the deductible. So lets just use the average, two cats as $60 times twelve months, is $720.

Now, our cats are indoor only and we get all their shots every year (and we go to the clinic, so were talking very little out of pocket). With one of them, he had a urinary blockage once. Cost us $1200...and him flirting with all the staff. And now we pay more for food because kibble can no longer be in his diet and we also switched his brothers food as well.

But $1200/16 years = $75 dollars a year...and that doesn't include the deductible. I won't add the cost of wet food vs. dry, that's just part of taking care of them. But I didn't include the cost of having them neutered, but that's an up front cost. Their feral mom had them on our porch and was practically still a kitten herself and wasn't doing a good job. So the cost of insurance, didn't make sense.

However, should a bad illness hit them, I won't ask how much more time we get if we do XYZ (but honestly, they won't even give you that, they just say your pet needs and leave the decision to you), but rather, the quality of life and for how long. When my father passed, we opted not to revive him, keeping him alive, barely, for a few more days was going to result in the same thing and him suffering. I've seen examples where pet insurance was used to keep their animals alive....even after severe amputation and were gone in a year anyway. That's what drives up the cost of insurance.

And I get it, keeping our fur babies around is expensive, but we are often pushed/shamed into doing more for them which is extremely expensive, when, we should just know its time to give them the final hug. We used to have another cat, she was ill and it was evident she wouldn't last, it was obviously kidney failure. Before they could do the tests, she died of cardiac arrest. Afterwards, they asked if we still wanted to do the tests....and we are crying our eyes out and I say "what for, she's gone".

With that said, Vet's do not get paid enough so I understand on one hand why they want to rake up fee's, this particular one in my example was a bit too callous obviously. But I do agree with others here, at minimum pet owners should have some kind of tax deduction. Pet owners take the cost of "euthanizing" away from government shelters.

But in owning a pet, you have to be realistic. It's a major responsibility and you have to ask the hard question, when do you have to let go? And I know, they are our emotional support companions. Since COVID, I've worked hard at home than in the office with many times holding my head in my hands completely frustrated and stressed. But at least one of our cats always seems to sense than and before I know it, I hear a meow and they are in my lap cuddling with me giving them a good rub down...and all those problems melt away. But remember, there are many other potential pets at the shelter who are in need. You may lose one, but you also save another.

[canetoad]

71. How does the average anywhere in the world family

Afford a child?

If this little being, dog or child, is truly a member of your family, you will make provision for them. Somehow.

[Behind the Aegis]

75. It is discouraging!

We just lost our baby of 15 years in August. I still cry everyday. However, we spent almost $3000 dollars in hospital bills...and he still died! I am SO thankful we were in the position to spend that money, but honestly, if it weren't for that, just routine vet bills, yearly exams and the such, the cost comes out to about $2000 a year for four chihuahuas. That is the BASICS! My husband has a good job and I no longer work, but the bills are insane.

I really don't know how some people do it. I really don't! Not just the "luxury" of having a pet, but having decide, "gee, what bill can we put off for another month without discontinuation in service." For fuck's sake, I live in a small town in Oklahoma and an apartment rental, WITHOUT utilities is almost as expensive as a moderate sized home!

Things just aren't right.

[druidity33]

78. Exactly why i don't have a dog...

it would potentially break me financially and emotionally if i couldn't afford to care for it. My brother spent $2,500 for knee surgery for his chocolate lab 2 years before it died. It's too much.

[Tadpole Raisin]

81. I know how expensive having pets can be having worked at a veterinary hospital.

Vaccines that cost us $1 would be charged $15-20 each, and this was decades ago. Minimum charge for anything was 2x to 3x cost. I felt the worst when people came in to put their animals down, some of them I cried with them as I had known them from when their pets were puppies and kittens.

Back then most people could only afford the basic charge which was for a common grave. The charges? A cat $30, a small dog $50-60, and a large dog was at least $100. Our cost? 10-15 dollars. I still cringe thinking about it and can’t imagine what those charges are today.

[onethatcares]

83. We have lost our fucking minds in the US.

I more than agree.

My wife told me that a study here in sunny Floriduh showed that in order to buy a house, not rent, an income of 78K is needed.

Who the hell, except for pollytichians, doctors, lawyers and sports stars, makes a salary of 78K a year?

So everything is rented, houses, cars, phones, and whatever other shiny object catches fancy. We have no dogs at present but

we have had more dogs, cats, ferrets, guinea pigs, fish, in 50 years than I can count, that's my wifes job counting them.

[Patton French]

85. Add to that boarding fees when you're out of town

It all adds up fast. Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of people who don’t give their dogs the same loving care that you described. Going about one’s life shouldn’t be a matter of income.

[jcgoldie]

86. It sounds like you are an awesome pet owner

So I would never presume to criticize how you keep your dog. Nonetheless there are many ways to do it cheaper. I have 6 dogs and 5 of them are workers on my farm LGDs who protect the livestock. I did get them fixed at the cheap spay clinic for around 100 each when they were pups but theyve never been to a vet and they are happy healthy as they can be. I dont think dogs need regular checkups I dont even do that for myself. But if you can afford it and gives you piece of mind then certainly worth it. As for the booster shots you can get those 7 way shots at the farm store for about $5 each and administer yourself. You can also treat for heartworms without buying expensive pet meds, the working ingredient in all those pills is ivermectin if you research you can find the proper dosage for heartworms for your dog and buy livestock injectible and give them orally in a bottle that will last years. Again not criticizing your approach but just like a lot of things in life people can do it healthily and happily for much less to meet their lifestyle without neglecting the animal. Kudos on adopting a rescue as well!

[Thtwudbeme]

115. I wish you would write a post to help folks-- some of the responses

here are heartbreaking. You are correct about what you wrote- I dated a veterinarian in the 80's (holy shit I am old), and he treated his own dog with products from the feed store- including ivermectin.

I DO agree with you- on everything. But, I am getting older- and yeah- it's more convenient for me to just ride them a few blocks down the road to the Dr. Buddy is a little over 50 pounds now- and Michael walks him because he pulls me so hard when he's on the leash. I just take him out in the yard. He's a funny fella- I adore my pupper for sure.

I think I am just sick of the average family NOT being able to have the same things in life I do. Maybe I am just neurotic-

[Hortensis]

87. Reality check: Most people in the U.S. live luxuriously comfortable lives,

with much greater opportunities for pursuing our happiness, than most of the people on the planet. Right now less than 4% of people on the African continent have been able to get vaccinated against Covid, but vaccines are free and plentiful here.

To all the problems the OP and a lot of people on this thread are kvetching about -- hungry, can't afford to eat! (That's a really good one!) No decent roof over one's head, wind presumably whistlng through. Pets bags of sick bones because we can't afford to take care of them. Oh, come on!

Sitting in comfort complaining about how bad Americans have it is yet another luxury almost all are able to enjoy, and apparently one some really do enjoy. The obesity rate in America is now over 42% (!!!), btw, and that's because to be American means to live surrounded by a constant, extravagant glut of food.

As for affording pets, the big problem is that the enormously expensive miracles of modern medicine have become available for pets. Not long ago the only humane treatment for many serious problems was euthanasia. Cheaper vets are available; ours is rural, away from the city where prices are set for urban incomes. But advanced medical treatments are still expensive for our rural vet to procure and give, and many of them are too expensive for our level of income.

Unlike our friend with 5 small, highly bred dogs that are now aging. They were adorable and beautiful when young, but her vet bills have become enormous, way into 5 figures each year, for the constant life-extending treatments they require. Like dialysis, chemotherapy, surgeries to correct orthopedic and eye problems, special medication that has to be given under observation in the vet's office, and all the other medications, medications, medications. When she travels for work, they're boarded where daily medical care is also provided.

Her pets are actually very typical cases, even if her plight isn't, real and worth noting as I answer the suggestion from some that America's taxpayers should be required to pay veterinarian bills those who can't afford them. No.

That's all for that suggestion: No.

With our friend still in mind, I would suggest joining those who refuse to enable the breeding of chronic, lifelong health problems into pets. It was always viciously inhumane. And now that most people can no longer afford many of the new treatments for their pets' suffering, I have real hope that more will say no and try to adopt pets that can mostly remain healthy with basic good care.

[Politicub]

89. I would love another dog but I can't afford vet care now.

After my sweet boy passed away last year, I decided not to get another dog. He had to have a couple of surgeries over the course of his life and lots of tests and x-rays near the end of his life, and his medicine at the end was expensive. A couple of years before him, my other dog passed away from cancer. My boy had really bad arthritis and went downhill fast.

The vet bills for both of them reached into the thousands over the course of their lives. As much as it pains me to not have a dog — I have had a dog or dogs for most of my life — I decided to not get another one because tests, surgeries are no longer affordable. My income has gone down by a lot.

I love dogs, but they’re a luxury I can’t afford now. Sigh. It’s weird to think of dogs as luxuries, but that’s just how things are these days. This thread makes me sad. I miss having a furry friend underfoot while I’m cooking or snoozing on my lap.

[McKim]

90. MY OPINION ON THE DOG CRAZE

I live in an urban neighborhood on a popular walking route near a park. Also I live within earshot of about 11 dogs. As I am an old lady I have a unique perspective. In my day neighbors never allowed their dogs to bark constantly, it was considered rude to neighbors. Dogs can be trained but few have the patience for this. The constant parade of dogs and their poop and barking is becoming overwhelming. Their fights, their being off leash to terrorize toddlers, because my dog is SO special: "He's friendly" and tramping inside my fenced yard on the flowers.

I also wonder about the social effects of having a dog instead of dealing with real life friends and real people is good for owners. Instead of having a dog for companionship, consider reaching out to real people. A dog is not a substitute for real friendship and may even be preventing it!

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs but chose to have freedom and real people friends instead.
I am just begging for a little courtesy.

[MissB]

104. I'm so sorry you have that going on in your neighborhood!

I live in an area where a constantly barking dog would be completely unacceptable. Completely.

Dh and I both work from home and we have two dogs. One is well trained and the other is slowly getting there. We spent a lot of $ on individual training for the first dog. We let them outside, but our half acre is fully fenced so they cannot wander the neighborhood. When we are gone, they are beside in their kennels or at puppy daycare. No one lets their dog wander. Our nextdoor group is awesome about letting folks know if they’ve misplaced a dog or if they’ve found one.

I think a lot of people got a pandemic puppy. (We did- our second one was adopted during the pandemic!) If folks are returning to the office then the issue of barking dogs may continue in your area for a bit.

Not picking up dog poo is a huge pet peeve of mine. We - meaning the neighborhood- shame people on our neighborhood Facebook group, complete with photos of the offending owner. It’s just not okay around here to leave a pile.

My dogs have taken to crapping in the middle of the road during our walks. On one hand, it does make it easier to scoop up but on the other hand- what the hell! Middle of the road? Our roads are quiet though.

[LeftInTX]

139. A road is a good spot to poop - Of course if the pet is on a leash.

The smell gets on grass, even if it's cleaned up.

Our dog smelled it and then we had trouble with her wanting to escape afterward. She had always just accepted the backyard, but one dog pooped on the side yard and then we had trouble.

[Thtwudbeme]

116. Our dogs have only been outside with us- But, I have a funny story for you

First, we NEVER allow our dog on other's lawns. Ever. For any reason. We carry poop bags. Buddy is never outside without us- we have coyotes in NC, and I am not even interested in that mess.

Here's my funny story--- Scout (Miss Jean Louise) was a little mutt that looked like a pure white pit bull that was left in the dryer too long. She was about 15 pounds. We were out walking one day....and I stopped to chat with a neighbor who knew her well, so I let her leash out so she could sniff around....we were chatting, and all of a sudden, Scout just hopped headfirst into her open pocketbook on the ground! We were both just staring in amazement- I was saying, "OMG, I am so sorry...what the heck..." and Scout popped her head out, comfortable as she could be!

We were dying laughing- but, I was embarrassed to death! She stayed on a shorter leash after that!

But, yeah- I hear ya!

[Johnny2X2X]

91. They can be expensive, too many pet owners just never take them to the vet

Our dog has been expensive after 2 rounds of chemo and 2 surgeries to remove mast cell tumors. But a lot of people just never take their dogs to the vet save for maybe shots every few years.

There are a ton of bad dog owners out there.

Also, we have a lot of dogs in the neighborhood. Upper middle class neighborhood, median house prices about $300K in West Michigan. You'd think there would be an equal amount of dog walkers to dogs right? Nope, there are dogs in my neighborhood who've never been on a walk in their lives. Why get a dog if you can't be bothered to walk them? They need the exercise and exposure to the world to be happy.

[Tracer]

99. Non-dog-walkers really bother me too.

My neighborhood is chock-a-block FULL of dogs. There are dozens and dozens! Eight on my street alone. I take my 2 dogs out every single day unless it is pouring rain or blizzarding -- and I only see a couple of other walkers around noon, but quite a few more around 5pm when people get home from work.

On the other hand, there are plenty of dogs that don't get out at all and it's a shame. The people across the street had a nice dalmation that they kept tied up outside. The poor thing had worn semicircular path in the yard-- the only place he could go at the end of his rope. They eventually got rid of him and now have a small dog that never leaves the house.

[SYFROYH]

92. There was a time not long ago when my wife and kid were ill for a long time and many medical bills..

...were not paid on time and I hated spending the extra $50 on cat food and litter each month and the occasional vet bill.

I can see how it's even more difficult today with some families in this pandemic economy

[mathematic]

93. The honest answer: the average american isn't as poor as you think they are

I have no idea why you think average americans can't afford things they are clearly affording. All new cars being made are getting bought, virtually everybody has a roof over their head, and, what, 2/3rds of households have a dog or cat?

You know how conservatives get made fun of for the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" perspective? Well, this is kind of like the counterpart. For some bizarre reason people on the left think that everybody is either super wealthy or dirt broke, despite their own middle-income experience.

[betsuni]

103. +1

[Thtwudbeme]

117. I work with kids that are on the free lunch program

I realize those families are hard to see unless you have direct contact.

I do indeed know what I am talking about.

[Thtwudbeme]

158. Wrong. More Americans are POORER than you think

I doubt your neighbors and friends discuss their finances with you. Mine certainly do not.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nearly-40-percent-of-americans-with-annual-incomes-over-100-000-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-301312281.html

[hamsterjill]

97. Cat rescue

I run a cat rescue. We are a valid 501(c)(3) but we are a small time operation. Our costs are incredible. We are constantly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to afford the next vet visit.

Veterinary expense has gotten very expensive as more human diagnostic equipment has been adapted for use in diagnosing pets. We have a great vet who works with us as much as he can on cost, but it's still a lot.

None of us involved in the rescue do anything that isn't a necessity. We pay our personal bills and try to fund the rescue's needs for the next month. COVID cut many of the spay/neuter opportunities, too, as clinics had to adapt to COVID protocols and can't take in as many dogs and cats per day.

We had six cats fixed earlier this week and the bill was just over $100 for each cat. We used to get the same services done for $35.

We do what we can as do a lot of people who are compassionate. But it's an uphill battle with all of the irresponsible people who won't spay and neuter their pets, get pets for stupid reasons, don't understand the commitment that they make when they adopt a pet, buy from breeders, etc.

Having a dog should NOT be a luxury and if every household in America could/would take in a dog or cat from a shelter, maybe the world would be a better place. Compassion is the answer.

[IbogaProject]

101. Private equity aka hedge funds

[link:https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/362267|
Private equity aka hedge funds have consolidated the whole pet health space. ]

The Private Equity Hedge Fund tax break was made for true venture capital to balance that only a few investments would succeed. But it has become a vehicle for the wealthy to dodge taxes use more leverage than any individual investor are allowed. They also get to roll any short term speculative gains into being long term gains w lower tax rates. Finally the managers get to roll over their cut tax free again and again as long as it stays in the fund. We need to go to war with the laws that allow these funds and we need to fight offshore secrecy better.

[iscooterliberally]

105. If it it weren't for dogs, cats, children and cars my wife and I might be millionaires.

I got 'mugged' on a zoom call about a year ago by a black cat that was sleeping under cars in the parking lot where I work. I had been feeding him. The company I worked for thought it was cute and offered to chip in for his first vet visit. I wanted to make sure he didn't have anything contagious to the other cats I already had. That visit was $400. He was OK for the most part. He had a cauliflower ear and missing teeth. They said he was about 10 years old. I noticed this faint but bad smell and at first I thought he was just dirty. I got him home and took him to our regular vet who happens to specialize in dentistry. It turned out the smell was an infection in his mouth. He had to have all of his teeth pulled except for the bottom two fangs. That was another $1200. We named him Lemmy and he's as happy as can be and loves playing with toys. Anyway, it's no wonder there are so many homeless and abandoned animals (let alone people!). We don't need any fucking billionaires! We can't afford them or their fucking bullshit!

[Bucky]

107. statistically, across all demographics people who own dogs eat out less

Dogs literally pay for themselves, plus all that love and endorphins is a nice extra benefit

[Zeitghost]

109. The truth is

Many pets are not taken care of properly. They eat cheap crappy corn laiden food, rarely if ever get vet care or normal checkups and they die of preventable and/or treatable diseases.

[Wingus Dingus]

122. Have two dogs, three cats--it's expensive.

I didn't want quite this many, but one extra kitten showed up on doorstep, plus my elderly dogs are still going strong, so now I'm kind of overrun. We just try to space the vet visits WAYYYY out and we ignore the vets' constant push to have them all get dental cleanings under anesthesia.

[Lisa0825]

129. Honestly, vets have student debts almost as high as MDs...

They are very highly educated but their services cost less because, pets not humans. I had 9 cats at my peak, due to keeping fosters when a rescue closed down, so I definitely understand the expense of caring for furkids.

[Captain Stern]

130. Because the average American family makes enough money to have a dog.

The better question would be:

Shouldn't the family that earns below the average (median) be able to afford having a dog?

That answer is 'yes'. But it's not the case.

[Thtwudbeme]

135. Everyone should have access to the unconditional love

that pets offer.

I agree completely.

But, I disagree with you about the "average family." I do.

[Captain Stern]

136. The median household income in our country is over 60k per year.

I know everyone's circumstances are different.

Depending on many circumstances (location, age, health, etc) 60k can be a lot, or a little.

I still stand by my statement that the average family can afford to have a dog.

But, there is an opportunity cost. The money that you spend to have a dog or cat, is money that you won't have available to spend on something else. That's pretty much the case with everything.

I've always considered the money that I spent on my pets to be money well spent. I've actually always thought I've gotten a really good deal out of it. I wouldn't retract a single dime of it.

[Thtwudbeme]

141. Well, let's take a look at that-

Family of four-

60,000 a year-- and because I suck at math, I am not going to worry about state, federal, or SS taxes-

Let's put that family in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath relatively small house- Let's set the mortgage at 200,000. Let's say the taxes on that house run about 2,500 a year. That sounds pretty reasonable.

Due to interest rate fluctuations, let's set the rate at 2.80 percent.

Principal and Interest are going to be 832.00- but, add in taxes and insurance it becomes around 1,050.

Now add in "regular bills." Cable and internet are about 200.00 a month.

Cell phones...let's say about 150.00

Car insurance for 2 or 3 (do they have teenagers?)- 150.00 a month.

Electric 200.00
Gas (this one is getting to be pretty big) I am going to say 200.00 with four in the house.

Water? Depends on the utility company. Private companies are becoming common. Ours is around 150.00 a month. So, let's add another 200.00

2 or 3 cars. Again, a crap shoot. Two payments plus gas and maintenance are going to be around 1000.00 or more a month.

Food and personal health care products can easily add up to 600.00 month.

We are now up to $3750.

That leaves 1,250 a month--- except! I haven't even touched on clothes for growing kids. Haven't considered other expenses such as deductibles, ER trips, or savings for typical pain in the ass emergencies (dead hot water heater, new fridge, new roof, fun assed storm damage not covered by insurance), nor have I touched saving for college/ retirement. Want to be middle class? You'll also need constant upgrades to computers, calculators for school, some people donate monthly to church....etc. Toss in lawn mowers, renting or going to see movies, occasionally eating out.

Sixty grand gets eaten up pretty quickly in the US.

[Captain Stern]

143. You're sort of agreeing with me about opportunity costs.

Yeah....if one constantly upgrades computers, donates to churches, spends a lot on movies, eating out, has cable, etc. That adds up.

So does giving to charities, helping out family members, political donations (even to websites), and such.

But that's how it goes. One might be in a position to do all of these things and still have a dog. Or, someone might have to forego some of those things to own a dog.

My parents were middle class, and my wife and I are also. And even with kids, we always had the money to take care of a dog or two (cats now). And we always had a roof over our heads, decent cars, and food on the table.

I'm not really knocking your OP. I think the focus should have been more on how hard it might be for someone that makes below the average income to own a pet, rather than questioning how people that make an average income can afford one.

[Thtwudbeme]

144. Wait- before you think I am agreeing with you

I did not write that my imaginary family was constantly "upgrading computers," donating to churches, spending a lot on movies, or eating out.

I wrote "occasionally."

Let's look at that leftover money more realistically and add a twist to it- let's say they are really frugal and forget saving for the fridge, hot water heater or ER trip:

A typical month for the frugal family in the US in July (schools out!): Budget: 1,200

Camping trip to Myrtle Beach (one week):

Camp site: (I am including a link to Pirateland- a popular campground in Myrtle Beach- I chose "tent&quot 597.00
Food for week 150.00 (I gave the kids some ice cream and stuff)
Gas to get there- (I am sticking my family in TN- I just kind of chose that) 100.00

OK, so now they are at the beach for one week- the ONLY vacation they are taking this year. Without going out, or buying a boogie board- or new flip flops- and staying in a tent...you are now up to almost 850.00.

I was NOT agreeing with you. I think Americans have blinders on about the cost of living. Here's the link to Pirateland: https://www.pirateland.com/campsites

[Captain Stern]

156. Again, you're proving my point.

You're bringing up a specific thing that someone can get by without.

The frugal family you use in your example could not go to Myrtle Beach for a week every year, and then easily be able to afford a dog.

You said in your OP your family makes about 150k a year, and you're wondering how the average family can afford a dog.

My family actually has always made about what the average family makes, and I'm telling you how we afforded to have pets. You can like my answer, or you can not like it. It doesn't matter. It's true.

However, I agree that it's unfortunate, for many reasons, that there are many families out there that can't afford to have a dog.

I'm just saying that the average family, with an average income, can.

[Thtwudbeme]

157. I am sorry I wrote our salary- It has not been that long since we got there-

OK, forget the Myrtle Beach vacation- because you know- why do Americans need that crap?

Instead let's go after other expenses..

School loans- run about 400.00 a month for most people. (now, our disposable income drops to around 800 a month)- btw, that's for ONE person. Two? Now your disposable income is down to 400 a month-

https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-payment

Health insurance- if our imaginary family has to pay that? What are they going to cut out? Where in that budget do you see "wiggle room?" Cable? Internet? Food?

Now- where do you see money for pets coming in?

You might want to read this article, bearing in mind that the average cost for a yearly checkup for a pet is well over a hundred bucks-- Buddy went to the vet last week- but we added a bath and toenail trim- and it was 350.00

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

[Captain Stern]

159. I guess I'm just not getting your point. You asked a question in your OP....

....and I answered it.

My family has always made around what the average income is.

I've told you that we've always afforded to have pets, and how we do it.

You either just don't believe me, or you don't like my answer, or I'm just not explaining myself well.

I'll try again:

The average family with an average income has two 'bins' of money. Out of one of those bins, the money goes towards necessities......shelter, clothing, food, healthcare (for people), transportation, electricity, water, etc.

Out of the other bin comes discretionary spending. That includes things like entertainment, eating out, vacations, movies, hobbies, etc. Most of us can't afford to buy, or do, every single thing we want to have or do, so we have to prioritize.

Some of us would rather spend it playing golf. Some of us would prefer to go on vacations. Some of us would prefer to eat out a lot. Some of us would prefer to sign up for multiple streaming services........and some of us would like to have a dog.

The problem isn't that average income families can't afford to have a dog. They can.

The problem is that there are too many families that can't.

[Thtwudbeme]

160. You should have been able to afford a dog and a camping trip

that's my point.

A flipping camping trip isn't exactly a "luxury" item.

Neither is a dog.

And no- most families do not have two "bins." Most are worried that the roof leak is going to get worse, or the car is going to break down.

[Captain Stern]

163. Ok. n/t

[madville]

146. Not really any point in debating, you have a can-do approach to things

and you're debating someone with a can't-do attitude. You believe things are inherently possible while the other poster will tell you the same things are impossible lol. I'm with you though, call me an optimist, with a proper budget, the average American family can live quite well and have some nice things and even a dog or two!

[Thtwudbeme]

147. You have no idea who I am-

I was a high school dropout who now holds a professional position with a dual masters.

I have saved money for retirement on minimum wage.

Hell, when I started on DU, I was bartending for money for grad school.

Take your "assumptions" elsewhere.

[madville]

149. Good for you

I hope you can afford a dog some day

[Thtwudbeme]

151. I responded to you below

Don't give me that "good for you" crap.

That "can do" baloney is why blue collar workers voted for Trump.

[madville]

152. I take an optimistic approach to things and generally think most things are possible

It rubs people the wrong way sometimes though, I understand.

[Thtwudbeme]

153. So.do.I

You really- really don't "get this" do you?

Maybe a news article will help you?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/20/heres-why-so-many-americans-cant-handle-a-400-unexpected-expense.html

[madville]

154. There is a really simple solution to all of this

Create a government program to supply every person 16 years or older in the US with a set of boots that have bootstraps. Then they all can pull themselves up by them. See, simple solutions for complex problems. I'm just joking of course, have a great night!

[Thtwudbeme]

155. There are no "simple solutions"

Quit joking about this.

And you and Skittles need to quit your "assumptions" BS.

[Thtwudbeme]

150. I looked at your profile- you started DU in 2005

I was struggling through undergrad at age 40- married- living in a rented condo.

Michael and I were married at that point- (we met on DU!) for a year and a half. He was making about 50 grand a year, and I was making about 12,000 a year working part time and going for scholarships-

I WALKED to school- and he walked to work- so we could afford a dog that needed thousands of dollars in eye surgery, and an ornery cat.

I really really don't want to hear about your "can do" baloney.

[Kaleva]

162. I think you are high on some of your estimates

$200 for cable and internet? My wife and I spend $39.99 a month for internet and home phone. My FIL has the same as we do plus cable tv for $79.99 a month. Car insurance for my wife and I is $84.00 a month, full coverage. Our water bill runs about $55 a month.

We are both on SSDI with a monthly income of about $2500 which includes a $144 a month VA pension. We want for nothing and can afford care for our dog. The last bill was over $300. I babysit for $92 for 2 kids 2 days of the week , which comes out to $368 a month and that money goes to paying for vet bills and other things if there is money left over.

[Thtwudbeme]

164. Our Spectrum cable and internet

is 179.00 per month. That is basic cable.

Car insurance for my husband and I (over 50, no tickets) is 90.00 a month. Younger people pay more- and remember, I added two kids to my imaginary family. One of the kids is possibly a teen- so add them to the mix.

Our water bill (private water company- and we have NO choice) is around 90.00 a month.

You guys are retired- by the time we get there in five years, you can bet we'll be paying a thousand dollars more as prices go up.

Our natural gas bill doubled this year, even though our usage did not. That made national news.

[Kaleva]

201. We have Charter Spectrum

We don't have basic cable but do have Netflix, Prime and Hulu as we like to binge watch. Each is a little over $10 a month so our total bill for streaming services, home phone and internet comes to a little over $70 month.

[LeftInTX]

140. I follow a hydrocephalic cats rescue

It popped up one day in my FB feed.

All they do is ask for money and about 50% of their cats don't make it. Actually the majority don't make it. Or if they do, it's tons of medical bills forever and ever. I worked in peds and dealt with hydro kids, so I know shunts malfunction and need to be replaced...They don't shunt most of their cats either and they just keep tapping them..The poor cats all have neuro issues and are chronically constipated and need enemas.

One cat needs a shunt right now. They require that the shunt be donated.

[LisaL]

180. I couldn't afford vet bills for a chronically ill animal.

NT

[LeftInTX]

183. It just popped up on my feed one day and I"m like, "What on earth?"

A few of them survive, but have long term issues. Most are permanently neuro impaired and can't walk straight. Their limbs are splayed etc.

I follow it out of curiosity. I made the mistake of liking a post and they immediately texted me and asked for money.

Recently one of their cats had a laminectomy. It just kinda goes on and on....

I follow another rescue with a few special needs cats, but those cats all have treatable conditions and the treatment can be applied to other cats. For instance, one pregnant mom had an uncommon blood type. They had recently lost a litter because of incompatibility of blood types between mom and kittens. (Apparently, this is not rare and can be the cause of litter death and often goes un-diagnosed) The rescue obtained colostrum for the kittens ahead of the the birth. Mom had to be in a corset for 24 hours and then the kittens could nurse from mom. It was really interesting to watch and it was a success.

[Boomerproud]

142. I think what OP. was trying to say was back in the day almost

every family that wanted a pet had one. We always had dogs and cats in the home and thought nothing of it. I have no recollection of my folks mentioning the cost ever.

[LeftInTX]

148. Our dog died in 2009 and she was pretty cheap.

She was a chihuahua, so I think that helped with the cost.

We did have to find someone to watch her when we went on vacation, but she had previously been my MIL's, so we had an instant dog sitter.

If our dog had developed a serious condition, we would have put her to sleep.

She did have congestive heart failure and mild allergies. When I gave her Lasix, she peed in the house, so I didn't give it to her anymore. She really had no symptoms anyway. She was 16 when she died and she died of either heat or fire ant bites. (I think she died of the heat, hubby thinks she died of fire ant bites) Either way, she ended up in a strange part of the yard during 105 degree weather and that was where we found her.

[leftyladyfrommo]

172. My parents didn't take animals to the vet.

They provided food and shelter. That was it. So it wasn't very expensive.


I do think some veterinary costs are getting to be a scam. One of my customers had her dog's teeth cleaned and 3 teeth pulled. It was $1,000. That's ridiculous. And the result of these sky high costs is that people are just having to let stuff go. A dog with cancer can cost $10,000 overnight.

I understand that the fancy equipment available now costs money. And vets have huge student loans. But there is a limit to what people can pay. Pretty soon only the fairly wealthy will be able to have pets. And that's tragic on so many levels.

[Thtwudbeme]

174. Those days are over- and yes- I remember them.

Veterinarians are considered professionals now- and their school loan bills, prices for equipment reflect that.

Back in the early seventies, our little yellow mutt, Betty snuck out of the fence while she was in heat. My Dad was so mad- he had to go chase her down, and then take her to Dr. Armstrong to have her spayed immediately. When Betty came home from surgery, we stuck her right back in the backyard with Daisy (world's greatest duck), and Oscar (our big old sweet tom cat). We didn't think she was in pain from surgery- and I don't recall anyone checking her stitches.

Betty and Daisy ate table scraps- Oscar had his Friskies from the Piggly Wiggly.

So, yes- I remember those days well. However, now we know that animals are in pain- and when Scout was spayed, she had pain meds and her binkie to recover on. We got Maude when she was 2 years old from the shelter- she was already spayed.

Buddy Threadgoode, Jr. was a yard mutt out in the country. We live in NC- "out in the country" is 30 minutes away- in traffic. You could feel his ribs and backbone, and his tail was chewed up. Now- after 2,000 and a year later- he's a big 'ol lovebug that adores his squeaky toys, cat friend, pillows, fenced yard and air conditioning.

His life has improved immensely- and we don't consider those expenses ridiculous. However, it bothers me that other families have to "sacrifice" for that.

That's WHY I am on DU- it's WHY I am a Democrat.

People should be able to have a damned dog- AND a camping trip.

[hunter]

199. Yeah, that's like my childhood. Dogs didn't go to the vet more than two or three times...

... in their lives, the last time usually for euthanasia or heavy-duty pain prescriptions, especially for cancer.

The rest of their medical care, for better or worse, was folk and feed store medicine.

My folk are pretty good at medicine.

About half our dogs died at home.

Wasn't much different for my Wild West great grandparents.

Both my grandmothers suffered horrible lingering expensive cancer deaths in hospitals. I wouldn't wish that on a dog.

My wife and I probably waited too long on our last elderly dog and spent too much money on her last months of veterinary care but she was one of the sweetest dogs I've ever met and a patient mentor, to the end, of one of the most horrible death row shelter dogs we've ever adopted.

[StarfishSaver]

197. Back in the day everyone who wanted a pet could have one

But I remember how it was for pets back in the day - many of them were not well cared for - unneutered cats wandering about having litters on the street, unneutered dogs running the neighborhood without leashes or vaccinations, sleeping in the backyard in doghouses or under the porch (if they were lucky), being fed table scraps and dangerous bones, etc.

One of the reasons it's much more expensive to own a dog now is that we actually give them better care now than they often got in the past.

[Thtwudbeme]

200. *This*

Same thing I wrote-

Pets were not well cared for back then. I am a 57, and I very well remember roaming tom cats, cats in the neighborhood hit by cars, backyard dogs....

Heck, we loved our pets in the sixties and early seventies---- I remember the tornado that hit Charlotte in '78- we brought Betty (the yellow mutt) in the basement, but could not get to Daisy- World's Greatest Duck (god, I miss her; I loved that duck) in her pen under that magnolia tree-

I sat up all night worried about Daisy- she survived by going in her little house Dad built her. She lived to be 15 and died in her sleep.

But, no- things were different then.

Animals have a much better life now.

[kcr]

205. That's how I read the OP

[helpisontheway]

161. Our youngest left for college and we thought about

Last edited Sat Sep 25, 2021, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

getting a puppy. However, we changed our mind. My husband retired at 48 yrs old. Covid caused him to retire a little sooner than he planned. We live on his military retirement and VA disability. We are fairly comfortable. I have allergies so we would need a hypoallergenic dog (ala Bo Obama). Many “hypoallergenic “ dogs are so expensive. Then of course there are vet visits, shots and grooming. Plus one big thing for us would be boarding. We love to go on short trips. We can do that with our parrot but it would be very difficult if we had a dog. Boarding at a kennel or hiring a pet sitter would eat into our travel budget. So we will stick to being a parrot parent. lol We had two parrots but one of our sons took our 23 yr old parrot with him when he moved. We still have our 12 yr old parrot. They typically live about 20-30 years. So we will have to play with our friend’s dogs and enjoy our time with our parrot. Oh and my husband made a pond for our backyard. We have 6 fish out there. It brings me so much joy to sit on my bench and watch them swim. Plus if we go out of town they simply eat the roots and algae until we return to give them flakes.

[helpisontheway]

166. I think many that sacrifice to own a pet

do it for sweet moments like this:

Jennifer Aniston posted this video of her pets…Sure made me smile this morning:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CUP23YCF-gU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[StarfishSaver]

176. There are other ways to enjoy pet companionship w/o this kind of investment - for example fostering

Animal rescue organizations desperately need foster homes for their rescued pets. And they usually cover veterinary and many other costs incurred in caring for the pet.

It's a great way to have a pet in your home while also knowing you are helping to save their lives and prepare them for their forever home. The only downside is that you have to give them up for adoption, but if you start the process knowing that eventually they're going to leave and go to another home, it makes the goodbye much easier - especially if you know that they're going to a loving family that will give them a healthy, happy home.

And the availability of a foster home can be the difference between life and death for a rescued animal.

[Thtwudbeme]

177. Not the point-

I agree with you-

But, that's not the point.

The point is that life has become so ridiculously expensive in the US that we need to redefine "middle class."

BTW- call a rescue and offer to "foster." The first two things they will want to know is "do you have a fenced yard," and "can we call your veterinarian for references."

So...nope. Generally only upper middle class folks "foster."

[StarfishSaver]

185. Sheesh

And no, those aren't the first questions they ask.

Many people without fenced in yards foster dogs. If the dog is a flight risk, they won't place them with someone who can't confine them (for example, the house has no screen door) and if the dog is large and/or needs a lot of exercise, a yard with a fence is preferable - that goes for adoptions as well. But if it's a smaller dog or older pet who is not likely to dash or wander off, The foster home does not need to have a fenced-in yard. Many people living in apartments foster.

It's also not necessary to have a large house or a fancy one - as long as it's clear to the agency that the person can care for the dog and the dog's environment is suitable for them and will be safe and healthy, that's enough.

As for the veterinary reference, that's not absolutely necessary but the agency does want to know that the foster has experience with pets, whether as an owner or some other way, and knows how to care for a pet and understands the responsibility.

I've worked with rescue dogs for years and no first hand that foster families don't need to be upper middle class or even middle class. Many people across the economic range foster dogs. And as I said, for many people who either can't afford or otherwise can't/don't want to commit to the expense and lifetime responsibility for a dog, being a temporary foster home is a wonderful alternative.

It's unfortunate my response provoked such a negative reaction from you. I was just trying to provide some useful information. I hope others reading this thread can benefit from what I've shared.

[Thtwudbeme]

188. I do too

My response was realistic, not negative.

And I never wrote that people had to have a fancy house to foster- only that rescues asked for fenced yards and veterinary references. Obviously, that does not apply to cats.

[StarfishSaver]

192. You suggested that people need to be upper middle class to foster

But whatever. You don't think that fostering is a viable alternative to the expense of owning a pet because it's not readily available to people who aren't well off. I know from experience that it is because many people from all economic classes foster, enjoy it and make a huge difference in the lives of animals while experiencing the joys of pet companionship.

[Thtwudbeme]

193. No, I didn't "suggest it." I came right out and wrote that

I apologize, and I think I need to back off from your comments because this might very well be a case of me "talking out of my behind."

My experience with rescues is the application process- to adopt, not foster.

Our two family members, Buddy Threadgoode, Jr and Maude (world's mildest cat) are both from rescues- and I know the hoops we had to jump through to get them.

I understand from your posts that fostering might be different.

[StarfishSaver]

195. Yes, fostering is very different.

That's why I suggested it as an alternative since many people who can't adopt can foster. It's a win-win.

[Thtwudbeme]

196. Please accept my apology

I truly had no idea since I have only adopted.

Maybe start an OP on fostering?

[StarfishSaver]

198. Accepted

Thank you.

[cinematicdiversions]

202. I love this thread. 150k a year is middle class and can barly afford a dog

60k a year and apparently you are one bad break from sleeping on a park bench and how dare you even consider having a dog you poverty stricken fool.


I make less than both those amounts currently and I seem to be doing well enough to handle a few pets. As somebody states above, maybe it is priorities. Or maybe you really don't need so much stuff.

If you are pinching pennies at 150k one might want to take another look at one's priorities in life.

[Thtwudbeme]

204. NOTHING I wrote insinuated this

I am questioning the cost of living in the US.

I wrote specifically that owning a dog should not be a luxury for families- any family.

Nor did I write that "we are pinching pennies."

[CRK7376]

203. Animals are important to my family

I am a retired Army Officer, and currently teach high school history and have a small farm(10 acres) and lots of pasture that surrounds our small place by my neighbors farm with his 40+ Black Angus, our other neighbor has her 8 horses. We have 5 hounds and last count 7-8 cats, most were feral when somebody kicked the cats/kittens out of their car at the turn around and left. The kitties wander a 100 yards to our barn and take up residence. When we find them and get them used to us we take them to our Vet for spay/neutering....We like our critters, they are family with all their different personalities.....I taught our Veterinarian how to swim at Scout Camp many years ago when I was on the Waterfront staff. When our boys joined a local troop, one of the Scout leaders was our Vet. He rememberd me, unfortunately I did not remember him but we've became good friends since. He manages our herd of furry friends very well and gives us a nice Scout Discount on most of our visits,and we do tend to see him often as the dogs tangle with each other, get into scaps with the raccoons, possums, skunks, deer, turkeys, fox and coyotes from time to time, the cows and Eric the Donkey, not to mention ornery cats that don't always like to be licked by one or more of the dogs....So we tend to be very good customers for our vet and don't get me started on boarding the critters when we go to the beach in the summer.....